The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!)

[DennisMM]

NOTE: Title updated to indicate most recent discussion.

"Watchmen" is in turnaround and "V for Vendetta" is shooting with a script Moore has excoriated and which sounds as if it's dumbing down the concept, which is not that complex to begin with.

"From Hell" bore no relation beyond the common supposition that the Masons were involved in the Ripper murders. "League" might as well have involved a completely different set of characters. I found that especially sad given that James Robinson, no sad comics scribe his own self, wrote the script.

The only film that actually worked with Moore's stuff, closely, was "The Return of Swamp Thing." Yes, it was a horrible movie, but they faithfully depicted Alec squirming up a tub drain to appear in Abby's apartment, the look of the Un-Men, and the tuber-induced hallucinatory love scene.

Is Moore really so untranslatable?

[Pacino86845]

Watchmen (Absolute Edition) is out... at $75 USD. Anyone seen inside it, know what it looks like inside? Is it worth it? I have a simple softcover trade paperback, and it is arguably my favorite comic story of all... and the original coloring did always disturb me.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

I donna know, eh? The Dino, he has a the original 12 issues inna plastic bags inna the vault, eh? I have a no idea iffa they worth anything these a days...

[Pacino86845]

I think they go for a nice mint, as opposed to most comics of the same period. Maybe around $10-15 USD a pop?

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Anna this, she is a the true story... the Dino, he dinna pay a the dime for them, no? Heheh... I was feeling a little onna the puncy side a that day, anna I was a with a the Stanley K anna we hadda the bit too much of a the grappa, eh? Anna so we were a looking inna the funny book a shop anna there was a the whole set, inna the nice neat package, anna Stan, he says a to a the Dino, he says "Dino," he says... "nobody is a watching a the Watchmen, eh?" Anna just like a that, I nicked a the whole set, hehehe... tucked it under a my shirt anna we walked outta the door...

True story... I swear onna my childrens' eyes, eh?

[Pacino86845]

Ahahaaha, you old curmudgeon you! ISOMDILASH!

[Ribbons]

Watchmen (Absolute Edition) is out... at $75 USD. Anyone seen inside it, know what it looks like inside? Is it worth it? I have a simple softcover trade paperback, and it is arguably my favorite comic story of all... and the original coloring did always disturb me.

I got this review off of Amazon.com:

18 of 18 people found the following review helpful:

Simply about this edition; October 14, 2005

If you don't already know, the other reviews will fill you in on the Watchmen's story and its significance to the comic medium. I'm here to tell you about this edition of the book, which is basically an oversized version of the long out-of-print Graphitti Designs hardcover version complete with all of that edition's exclusive extras (which is fantastic, since that out-of-print volume goes for major bucks on eBay when it does rarely surface). Until now, that Graphitti Designs edition was the one to own... this tops it, due to its oversized pages and superior-quality printing.

Want to see how the "Watchmen" story was originally about Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, and the Question (along with other Charlton characters), and how it changed to what it is? There is a very in-depth look at the original proposal included here.

Want to see early Gibbons art? It's here. How about rarely-seen teaser strips, published long before the first issue? Again included. Alan Moore's script samples? You got it.

Bottom line: I can't think of anything that could possibly be done or included that would make a superior edition to this one.

Was this review helpful to you?

Seems interesting. Don't know if I'd shill 75 bones for it, but still. I heard they tinkered around with the coloring as well, to questionable results. I have a plain old trade paperback too, and that one seems okay to me.

[Pacino86845]

I'm mostly curious about the recoloring... if only there was a preview!

[Coldfire24]

$75 is too much. I really need to pick this thing up. I'll probably order it off the interweb. I'm not really into comics but i've heard so much about the story that I really want to get it. I heard the same about the Dark Knight Returns and I loved it.

[Flumm]

I was the same Coldfire, I didn't know too much about comics, it seemed like something you would have to be involved with fulltime or something. But then I hesitantly picked up a copy of Elektra: Assisan (truely stunning btw) graphic novel in a secondhand book shop a couple of years back, and I haven't looked back since...

..especially with online stores like amazon, now is a very good time to be a geek of any description I think.

[Coldfire24]

Yeah I picked up dark knight returns off of amazon. What comics do you read? Cause i'd like to start getting into DC and Marvel but I have no idea where to start.

[Flumm]

Well you know, guys like DennisMM, burl and a few others are far more qualified than me to give you advice in this situation... my humble collection looks very much like like a Best Of shelf... I've literally sampled bits and pieces from different well knows writers, famous series, or classics of a certain character, and all usually based on reviews or reccomendations from friends, magazines and websites.

Well if you've read Dark Knight Returns, it would be a shame not go back and read Year One. It's a good book, dark humour, and it's a good companion piece to DKR, but I'd warn you that it's not nearly as substantial, so there's a lot less to savour. Although what is there is really interesting, if not brilliant.

Anyone got any more informed opinions to help out Coldfire, that my own...?

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

This should a prolly be moved to a the Funny Books room, no?

[DennisMM]

I have the original Graphitti Editions leatherbound hardcover, which cost $50 back in '89 or whenever. Beautiful, beautiful stuff, which a ribbon bookmark and everything.

What does the new color look like? Hmm. I liked the original coloring.

[Pacino86845]

I have the original Graphitti Editions leatherbound hardcover, which cost $50 back in '89 or whenever. Beautiful, beautiful stuff, which a ribbon bookmark and everything.

What does the new color look like? Hmm. I liked the original coloring.

I read somewhere that the so-called "absolute edition" is nearly identical to the now out of print Graphitti design, except larger... and that they in fact tried to stay true to the original coloring, and that they just more or less applied some minor touchups throughout for slight "enhancements."

[Flumm]

Watchmen Now at Warner Bros.?
Source: Entertainment Weekly
October 24, 2005


Entertainment Weekly has published an article talking about Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' Watchmen in which the possible movie is mentioned as well. The magazine claims that Warner Bros. Pictures is now in talks to pick up the project after it was dropped by Paramount Pictures. The mag asked the creators and influenced talent about the movie:

In the late '80s, producer Joel Silver (The Matrix) tried to make a film adaptation with director Terry Gilliam. Robin Williams and Richard Gere were rumored to be interested. But the project imploded primarily over budget, and the end of the Cold War deprived Watchmen of its political relevance. But in 2001, the comic found new life thanks to a zeitgeist-mining script by David Hayter (X-Men). Paramount was set to roll earlier this year with The Bourne Supremacy's Paul Greengrass at the helm — until a regime change at the studio sent it into turnaround. Still, says producer Larry Gordon, ''We have every reason to believe we will eventually make the movie.'' By the way, Moore doesn't mind: He's adamantly opposed to Watchmen's adaptation for artistic, business, and personal reasons — a position that hardened after Fox's limp 2003 version of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen — and plans to give any film royalties to Gibbons.

GIBBONS
I remember meeting with Joel Silver, who wanted to cast Arnold Schwarzenegger as Dr. Manhattan: ''He's gonna be Arnie!'' We said, ''Well, he's got the physique, but the German accent...'' He said, ''Doesn't matter!'' It didn't come to anything with Joel.

SAM HAMM (first Watchmen screenwriter)
I was coming off writing Batman when I was asked to take a whack at it. I thought it too unwieldy to compress into two hours. The comic really is a spectacular piece of architecture. Trying to replicate it [was]just impossible.

HAYTER
What I pitched to Larry was actually a miniseries for HBO. But it would have cost $100 million. When I mapped it out as a two-hour movie, I looked at how Peter Jackson broke down The Lord of the Rings. My first draft was 178 pages, which was encouraging; it told me a screenplay was actually possible. One thing that has tripped up Hollywood is the Cold War setting, when there was a sense of impending doom. With 9/11, unfortunately, we got it right back again. So we did update it.

MOORE
David Hayter's screenplay was as close as I could imagine anyone getting to Watchmen. That said, I shan't be going to see it. My book is a comic book. Not a movie, not a novel. A comic book. It's been made in a certain way, and designed to be read a certain way: in an armchair, nice and cozy next to a fire, with a steaming cup of coffee. Personally, I think that would make for a lovely Saturday night.

The full article is available in the new issue of Entertainment Weekly.

If there was ever a cinematic legend in the making, it has to be Watchmen. Can you imagine Dr Mahnhatten on the big screen? If there's any project, that I would want to come off exceeding anyones expectations, it would be this.

[DennisMM]

[If there was ever a cinematic legend in the making, it has to be Watchmen. Can you imagine Dr Mahnhatten on the big screen? If there's any project, that I would want to come off exceeding anyones expectations, it would be this.

As much as I wanted to see this done in the late '80s, and as much as I liked most of Samm Hamm's work on the '89 Batman script, I'm glad it wasn't made, at least with the Hamm story. "Watchmen"'s ending is problematic, very unlikely but physically and emotionally devastating. It might well look silly on film, but I still find it more interesting than Hamm's alternate-universe finale.

Back then, in a little fanzine I wrote for, I made up my dream cast. That's so out of date it's not worth mentioning here again, but maybe some of you can contribute to the dream cast idea.

I still think Malkovich should play Rorschach, even if he's not short.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Offa the top of a my head...

Sally Jupiter - Susan Sarandon
Laurie Juspeczyk - Jennifer Garner
Night Owl 2 - Tom Wilkenson

[Flumm]

I think I'm gonna read Watchmen again before I even approach this, specifically with the potential casting in mind.

Although, that being said, I think Malkovich sounds right for Rorschach. Even as a middle aged man, he has that presence of danger and pychosis that Rorschach would need. Hopefully they make some some room for the depth in his character though, he wasn't just a stereotype, they would have to layer some of the more lonely, futile, regretfull elements into him, and not make him just the angry nutter guy.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

The Dino, he always a loved how inna the Rorschach test, he would see a the dog's head split open with a the brains falling out, anna he would a just deadpan "some pretty flowers." Anna the doc would say "good."

[Adam Balm]

You know, Daniel Craig was born to play Rorschach. Too bad he's all tied up with 007 now.

[Adam Balm]

So this is coming out soon. Can't wait. Thoughts?

[burlivesleftnut]

I wish he would get a hair cut.

[DennisMM]

I wish he would get a hair cut.

He's a former-hippy magus cult-star. He does as he pleases and his acolytes throw themselves at his feet. On which he probably wears toe rings in the shapes of scorpions and daggers.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Yeah, I get a that alla the time, eh?

[ThisIsTheGirl]

No Killing Joke?????

[DennisMM]

No Killing Joke?????

It's not a Moore property, just established characters. I stuck to material he created or established as his own, such as Miracleman.

[ThisIsTheGirl]

Ahhhh, fair enough.

Right - I need to get home - see y'all in an hour or so!

[DennisMM]

Speaking of Moore working on established characters, there's a TP of ALL his DC work of that sort, coming out in January.

Lunch is over. Back to work.

[Ribbons]

So this is coming out soon. Can't wait. Thoughts?

[Gheorghe Zamfir]

As much as I like Watchmen and to a lesser extent V, my favorite Moore property is Top Ten, though I think its too visually dense to ever be done in another medium, it'd still be a kick to see.

And I've prictured Jeff Goldblum for Dr Manhattan from the first time I read Watchmen.

[Adam Balm]

So this is coming out soon. Can't wait. Thoughts?

Congratulations, Ribbons. You're the first one in this thread to actually look at the cover and thus get the joke. Well done.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Alla this a traffic anna only 3 replies to a the poll!??

VOTE YOU GODDAMN PUTZES!!

[Keepcoolbutcare]

Congratulations, Ribbons. You're the first one in this thread to actually look at the cover and thus get the joke. Well done.

I thought jokes were supposed to be funny.

Dennis, any truth to this...

A lost work
There is a "lost work" from this period, a miniseries proposal called Twilight of the Superheroes which Moore submitted to DC at some point in 1987. A superheroic pun on Nietzche's "Twilight of the Idols", this story was to be set two decades in the future of the DC Universe and would feature an epic final conflict between good and evil, as well as between the older and younger generations of superheroes. Twilight was conceived as a standalone miniseries which could optionally also be tied into ongoing titles, much like the then-recent Crisis on Infinite Earths; however it would also undo one element of the prior series by restoring writers' access to the various multiple earths which had been eliminated during Crisis. Cleverly, Moore did this in such a way as to leave the single timeline of the post-Crisis continuity intact.

The story would feature a world ruled over by superheroic houses, in which the two most powerful, the House of Steel (presided over by Superman and Wonder Woman) and the House of Thunder (consisting of the Marvel family) are about to join forces through a political marriage between the children of the two families. Such a marriage would make the combined houses an unstoppable force and a potential danger to freedom, and as such certain characters set about a complex plot to prevent the marriage and free humanity from the power of the superheroes. By the climax of the story, elements from all across the universe and from up and down the timestream would be brought in. Unusually, the series would highlight many obscure and forgotten DC characters by putting them in important roles, and the lead character would be John Constantine, whose interaction with the superheroes of the DC Universe had up until then (and indeed since) been rather minor.

With Moore's departure from DC, the series never got beyond the proposal stage, although copies of Moore's very lengthy notes have appeared on the internet and in print. DC have been quite thorough in tracking down and suppressing these copies as the story, though unpublished, is still considered the property of the company. Elements of Twilight can be seen in the concept of hypertime and particularly in DC's similar-themed series Kingdom Come, leading cynics to remark that the suppression of copies of the Twilight proposal may be an attempt by DC to hide the fact that they are strip-mining unused Moore concepts. Both Mark Waid and Alex Ross, the creators of Kingdom Come, have admitted that they had read the Twilight proposal before starting work on their series, but claim that any similarities are both minor and unintended

[Adam Balm]

It's true. I read the pitch. And yes Kingdom Come was a total rip off.

[DennisMM]

Congratulations, Ribbons. You're the first one in this thread to actually look at the cover and thus get the joke. Well done.

I thought jokes were supposed to be funny.

Dennis, any truth to this...

I wouldn't call Kingdom Come a total rip-off. They start from the same concept and contain some of the same ideas, but the development is very different. KC is largely about the redemption of both the new and the retired heroes, where Twilight was more about the basic corruption that comes with power.

I have a print copy of the much-circulated web file. It's somewhere in my "interesting and unusual things" folder, which is somewhere in the new file cabinet into which I tossed everything a while back when we redid the office. I don't remember the bit about the multiverse, but everything else makes sense.

An interesting point I do remember is that Captain Marvel Junior had taken on a new style, very Elvis-like appearance. This was a tribute to the fact that Elvis based his hairstyle on Junior's and wore lightning bolt necklaces at times, inspired by the Marvels' emblem.

An element or two of the proposal found their way into DK2, mostly having to do with J'Onn J'Onnz and, if memory serves, The Question.

If anyone wants to see it badly enough, I can try to locate it and type it out.

[Lord Voldemoo]

Alla this a traffic anna only 3 replies to a the poll!??

VOTE YOU GODDAMN PUTZES!!

It was a 2 day poll, we can't vote you goddamn putz!

I woulda probably picked the Watchmen though...

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

2 day poll??? Okay, so I'm a the putz...

[burlivesleftnut]

DERRRRRRRRR

[DennisMM]

So sorry. It looked as if a short poll would be more appropriate in the days when we didn't have 13,000 threads. Maybe I'll start a new poll! Yeah! For which of Moore's DC Universe stories is best! Yeah!

Wait -- we all know it's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

Never mind.

[TheButcher]

Watchmen update from IGN:
http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/676/676592p1.html

[Adam Balm]

If another writer wants to undertake that route, then I wish them the best, and fervently hope the film is not ruined as a result. As a fan, I did not revive interest in this project only to see it go the way of Daredevil.

Wow.

[DennisMM]

Strong words. Not to demean him, but X-Men, X2 and The Scorpion King were not exactly Watchmen level material. I respect his opinion and have heard good things about the script, but he may be taking things a bit far.

[Shane]

I'd love to see him dip his hands into main stream marvel,

Or do some more Doctor Who

[Gheorghe Zamfir]

X2 wasn't even so much Hayter, basic story I think, but Singer was unsatisfied with Hayter's script, and apparently having earned leeway with FOX, Singer hired Dougherty and Harris to rewrite it, which they did a ton of (I think I read they went through 20 something drafts).

[DennisMM]

I hadn't realized there was that much work after he left the project. Wow!

[Pacino86845]

Can anyone give me an opinion on A Small Killing? I just saw it at this French comics shop (translated version), and it definitely seems interesting. I'd never even heard of it before, really.

[Colin]

[opinion] Get it. It's awesome. [/opinion]

[Pacino86845]

Haha, thanks Colin! I mean, the art just seems so luscious for something that was released in the 80's, and I figure it's tough to go wrong with Alan Moore, especially old-school Alan Moore.

[DennisMM]

It's so far away from what most were doing at that point that I couldn't quite get a grasp on it when it was published; I needed another reading. It has much more in common with Big Numbers or Gaiman's Violent Cases than any of the genre work Moore had done up to that time. I recommend it.