The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!)

[Theta]

...they must be using the Chewbacca defense.

At a guess, I'd say there's some printing fuckup they're dealing with, since Amazon had it pegged as coming out tomorrow when I looked it up Monday.

[DennisMM]

It shipped on time. Good.

[Theta]

It shipped on time. Good.

Actually, heh, my local comics shop broke street date so I got my hands on it just today.

It's a dazzling display of Alan Moore's various talents as a writer, but I think a LOT of people are going to hit the roof when they read this. I fully expect flame wars over this book, and honestly both points of view that erupt are going to be valid. This is undeniably an amazingly written book, but it's also pretty much the "League" equivalent of the Buffy high-school yearbook; it's less a sequel than a tie-in piece of promotional merchandise.

His talent for mimicry, satire, and whimsy are on display here and it's some amazing stuff in terms of how seamlessly he assembles it. The various parts are bawdy, witty, funny, and never less than consistently amazingly written with a careful eye on tone and keeping everything absolutely consistent. He handles Shakespeare and cheap porn with equal skill.

That said, the connecting tissue of actual comics isn't the bulk of the book. There are a few great action sequences and, naturally, tons of references, but, repeated mockery of James Bond aside, this feels like the least considered of all the book, especially when you get to the visually stunning but storywise extremely disappointing ending; especially when compared to the previous two books there really isn't much here, and he shreds the entire concept of the book to ribbons. It's even more disappointing when you consider all the fun stuff this book hints at that Moore won't write, ever. There's a whole history of past Leagues and Leagues after the second book that would have been awesome to read.

Basically, the parts are a doozy and there's enough greatness there to justify the cover price. But the whole is unfortunately not the sum of its parts. Don't go in expecting "League Book III"; when he says "Black Dossier", he means it.

[DennisMM]

The way the book was described, it was clear to me it was not a standard comics story. I didn't know what to expect and I haven't cracked the shrink wrap yet because I want to be able to devour it in a sitting. I'm sorry to hear that the package is so much more than the content.

[Theta]

The way the book was described, it was clear to me it was not a standard comics story. I didn't know what to expect and I haven't cracked the shrink wrap yet because I want to be able to devour it in a sitting. I'm sorry to hear that the package is so much more than the content.

Honestly, I think the best paralell is "The Smashed Fairy Book." Go in expecting something like that.

Also expect to laugh. Really, really hard. There's some funny, funny stuff in there.

[Leckomaniac]

Well he has said all along that Vol. III is going to be published by Top Shelf. So I am not sure why you were expecting Vol. III with the Black Dossier. And that interview with Moore I linked to on the previous page includes Moore spelling out exactly what this book is.

Also, the plan was to have the book include vinyl singles as well. To sort of add to the whole experience. But DC screwed the pooch and are now going to release a new "Absolute Edition" next year in the manner in which the book was MEANT to be experienced.

Just another reason why Moore will NEVER work with DC/Wildstorm ever again.

[Theta]

Well he has said all along that Vol. III is going to be published by Top Shelf. So I am not sure why you were expecting Vol. III with the Black Dossier. And that interview with Moore I linked to on the previous page includes Moore spelling out exactly what this book is.

Well, I might have been expecting Vol. III because it's, I don't know, the third book in the series? And it costs $30? I feel I got my money's worth, lame ending aside (as I said I really enjoyed the book), but I guarantee you that not everybody is going to feel that way.

Honestly, I'd almost rather he dumped the connected tissue of comics completely and cranked out more short stories, parodies, etc.

[darkjedijaina]

I finally broke down and bought Lost Girls. It arrived today, and I'm on Book Two now. I can't seem to draw myself away from it, it's so beautifully done.

[TheButcher]

Congratulations, Ribbons. You're the first one in this thread to actually look at the cover and thus get the joke. Well done.

I thought jokes were supposed to be funny.

Dennis, any truth to this...

I wouldn't call Kingdom Come a total rip-off. They start from the same concept and contain some of the same ideas, but the development is very different. KC is largely about the redemption of both the new and the retired heroes, where Twilight was more about the basic corruption that comes with power.

I have a print copy of the much-circulated web file. It's somewhere in my "interesting and unusual things" folder, which is somewhere in the new file cabinet into which I tossed everything a while back when we redid the office. I don't remember the bit about the multiverse, but everything else makes sense.

An interesting point I do remember is that Captain Marvel Junior had taken on a new style, very Elvis-like appearance. This was a tribute to the fact that Elvis based his hairstyle on Junior's and wore lightning bolt necklaces at times, inspired by the Marvels' emblem.

An element or two of the proposal found their way into DK2, mostly having to do with J'Onn J'Onnz and, if memory serves, The Question.

If anyone wants to see it badly enough, I can try to locate it and type it out.

I just finished reading Alan's Twilight of the Superheroes pitch. It could have been a great story. A lot of recent big events seem to be borrowing from it. Gaimans Eternals, 52, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and of course Kingdom Come.

[Leckomaniac]

I really, really, really hope this is all empty speculation. However, I doubt it.

DC Looking to MOVE FORWARD with WATCHMEN sequel and prequel mini-series and on-going books, without Moore and Gibbons

Apparently, Paul Levitz was the steadfast protector of WATCHMEN and with him out, Dan Didio is looking to impress some of the big wigs at WB by delivering some big sales with these sequels.

Belch.

I’ve heard this one rumbling for a while now. First there was the story that DC Comics Publisher and President Paul Levitz had personally prevented any Watchmen 2 projects, because, despite their differences, he believed that as this would be against Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ wishes, it would cause bery bad feeling in the creative community and would be a creatively bankrupt move.

Moore fell out massively with DC Comics, and Paul Levitz specifically, not only choosing not to work with them any further, but scuppering spinoff projects, removing his name from any movie credits and any money due to him from said movies, and taking his one final project The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, from Wildstorm, a publisher DC had purchased

But in the wake of the movie, Watchmen became DC’s best selling comic book of all time. One might say partly because it had remained undiluted after all this time.

But there were moves. A Wizard splash showing DC’s Countdown multiverse had Rorschach as one of the combatants and it was rumoured one of the universes in the DC 52 Multiverse was intended to be the Watchmen world. Instead, Earth 4 became a world inspired by elements of Watchmen and the Charlton Heroes universe but with other aspects such as the laws of physics being altered.

But the news broke that Paul Levitz was stepping down from DC Comics as both President and Publisher, I wondered what that meant for the possibility of a Watchmen sequel. Certainly in a hundred years, you couldn’t expect there not to be one.

Well, it seems to be happening a lot sooner than I thought. I understand now that this considered a pet project of Dan DiDio, SVP-Executive Editor. That he is determined to impress new bosses by building on DC’s biggest selling comic book of all time with multiple prequel comic miniseries and spinoff ongoing projects.

I understand that both Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons have to be offered first refusal before any of these titles could be published. But if they don’t want to work on them themselves (and Alan Moore is never going to agree), DiDio has been sounding out people who might be willing to take on the task.

While some creators are reticent, the argument goes if there are a number of Watchmen spinoff projects, any blame or shame can be spread on many shoulders. The sales are expected to be massive, whatever the hardcore fanboy reaction and such expected sales benefits will be shared amongst the creative teams.

In contrast, not only would Levitz not allow any new Watchmen stories but even the video game was restricted to material in the graphic novel and film, nothing brand new was allowed to be invented. Despite differences with Moore, Levitz has held fast to the committment that the comic is the comic is the comic.

It seems that this may now change.

At this stage, having disowned himself of much of it, Alan Moore is likely not to care. Though we might get an eviscerating blast at some point if this all comes to pass.

Both Jim Baike, Rich Veitch and Gene Ha/Zander Cannon are artists who have taken on writing chores on books previously written by Alan Moore, to continue the storyline. The most creatively-acceptable solution would be Dave Gibbons writing and drawing new Watchmen titles. But DiDio’s plans seem much larger than just one book.

And of course, in those initial movie contracts with Fox, there was a clause that included sequels to a Watchmen movie.

When asked, Dave Gibbons only replied “Hurm…”

[Fried Gold]

Dan Didio is a twunt.

I wouldn't be surprised if he tried writing it himself.

[MacCready]

Dan Dildo should die face down in someone else's vomit.
Tonight.

Oops...I spelled his name wrong. My bad.

[TonyWilson]

Mark Millar for the Rorschach/Comedian spin-off. YAY!!!


Sorry, just wanted to give Lecko an aneurysm

[The Vicar]

You're a very naughty boy. I could hear Lecko's brain go off all the way over here. Sounded......moist.
Ew.

[Leckomaniac]

Mark Millar for the Rorschach/Comedian spin-off. YAY!!!


Sorry, just wanted to give Lecko an aneurysm

He would sell the rights to that shit before it was even published. DC wouldn't even know what happened. Suddenly FOX would be making a Rorschach/Comedian film and they would all be sitting around going: "What happened to my wallet? Why are my pants off? Why do I now have herpes? And why is another studio making a film based on characters we own the rights to!" Then they would all look around and sigh collectively, "Mark fucking Millar"

Gosh that guy is a whore.

[Fried Gold]

Mark Millar for the Rorschach/Comedian spin-off. YAY!!!


Sorry, just wanted to give Lecko an aneurysm

Sadly, Mark Millar isn't available as he's writing, producing and directing every DC property for the big screen because he's got the best ideas for them.


...according to his blog.

[DennisMM]

Do you suppose they'll steal Moore's idea for the Watchmen prequel? Before DC screwed him and Gibbons so badly, he proposed Minutemen, a 12-part (6-part? memory lapse) story set between 1940 and 1950. It would have shown how the first wave of costumed heroes destroyed themselves. If they want to do something, give a good writer that idea and roll with it.

Forgive me if I've said this before. I probably have.

[Peven]

day before yesterday....

[DennisMM]

[TheButcher]

I didn't see your post Leckomaniac when I started that other thread. Sorry

From MTV 2/3/09:
'300’ And 'Watchmen' Sequels? Zack Snyder Explains What Would Bring Him Back (If Anything)

“I know that I wouldn’t have anything to do with it,” he said of a “Watchmen 2.”

From MTV 9/17/08:
Patrick Wilson Ponders 'Watchmen' Sequel: 'It's Been Talked About'

"It's all been talked about," laughed Wilson. "Financially, they like to do that. But all of us, [director] Zack [Snyder] included, all go, 'How on Earth could you do a sequel or prequel?'"

While Wilson acknowledged the presence of a clause in his contract that allowed for sequels, he was quick to add that these types of arrangements are standard fare these days, citing their presence (and even more unlikely use) in Snyder's previous blockbuster adaptation, "300."

"Even the guys from '300’ might have had a sequel," said Wilson. "It's the most ridiculous option. It's sort of a financial way to protect the studio, and I would do the same thing."

From /film:
Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Marv Wolfman Are Working on DC Comic Book Movies


From THR July 19, 2009:
DC Comics storms the film world

This past fall, Warners quietly hired three of DC's biggest writers -- Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Marv Wolfman -- to act as consultants and writers for its superhero line of movies. The move involved taking back the reins on projects being handled by such producers as Charles Roven ("The Flash") and Akiva Goldsman ("Teen Titans").

The projects Morrison and Wolfman are working on are in the early stages at Warners, whose execs declined to comment.

Could Watchmen 2 be the movie Morrison was hired to write?

[TheButcher]

From Bleeding Cool:
Richard Pace May Confirm Existence Of Watchmen 2 Project

[TheButcher]

From io9:
How (And Who) To Make Watchmen 2?

But what would a Watchmen spin-off look like? Who could do it justice... or, for that matter, would be willing to try? Putting aside all ideas of potential disaster, here are what I think are the most likely scenarios.

[TheButcher]

From Your Mom's Basement February 19, 2009:
DC ANNOUNCES WATCHMEN II

YMB has learned that early last year, DC Comics began taking submissions from writers for a top secret project... a sequel to the opus "Watchmen."

"With the movie coming out, it just makes sense to capitalize on that," DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio is quoted as saying at a recent secret conference call with retailers. "We got, literally, tens of submissions and picked the best one."

"We figured that Hollywood was going to make a sequel anyway, and this way we get to maintain control of that. And with this one we don't have to deal with Moore, which is nice."

Who is the writer tasked with writing the sequel to one of the most beloved comics of all time? None other than fan-favorite John Byrne. Byrne explained the sequel's premise on the call: "Basically, there are a lot of continuity errors in the original book and I wanted to explore those and fix them. Those get fixed as we follow the basic plot of the book, which is: What if the extra-dimensional squid monster Ozymandias created was real? And from another dimension? And there were more of them? And they actually did decide to invade Earth? Dr. Manhattan said at the end of the first volume that he was going to go off and create life. What if he decided to create evil, psychic, Earth-enslaving squids?"

Art will be handled by none other than fan-favorite artist Frank Quitely. The artist said on the call: "DC gave me a huge lead time, six months, and I've absolutely got the first issue just about done. I'm even going to draw some of the other issues, too."

Byrne continued: "I have no idea what this guy is drawing half the time, but the civilians seem to like him, so whatever."

"John's giving me a lot of great stuff to draw, and I hope to be able to draw some of it. The fight between Omni-Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan in issue eleven should be fun. Hope I get around to it." Always-a-bridesmaid-never-the-bride-on-big-event-comics Doug Mahnke will provide art for "whatever Frank doesn't bother getting to," DiDio revealed.

This fall readers will be able to uncover all the secrets still waiting to be revealed in the Watchmen universe! How did Rorschach survive Dr. Manhattan's disintegration? Did the newspaper publish his journal? Do the members of the power-pop tween band (and children of Nite Owl and Silk Spectre) Nite Spectre have powers? And is Ozymandias Dumbledore? "Watchmen II" is scheduled to be released the same week the movie hits DVD/Blu-Ray.

[thomasgaffney]

From Your Mom's Basement February 19, 2009:
DC ANNOUNCES WATCHMEN II

the basic plot of the book, which is: What if the extra-dimensional squid monster Ozymandias created was real? And from another dimension? And there were more of them? And they actually did decide to invade Earth? Dr. Manhattan said at the end of the first volume that he was going to go off and create life. What if he decided to create evil, psychic, Earth-enslaving squids?"

How did Rorschach survive Dr. Manhattan's disintegration? Did the newspaper publish his journal? Do the members of the power-pop tween band (and children of Nite Owl and Silk Spectre) Nite Spectre have powers? And is Ozymandias Dumbledore? "Watchmen II" is scheduled to be released the same week the movie hits DVD/Blu-Ray.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

[Seppuku]

We figured that Hollywood was going to make a sequel anyway, and this way we get to maintain control of that. And with this one we don't have to deal with Moore, which is nice.

the basic plot of the book, which is: What if the extra-dimensional squid monster Ozymandias created was real? And from another dimension? And there were more of them? And they actually did decide to invade Earth? Dr. Manhattan said at the end of the first volume that he was going to go off and create life. What if he decided to create evil, psychic, Earth-enslaving squids?

It seems strange that if they're gunning to be the source material for a movie sequel, that they'd pick a plot that wouldn't work in relation to the original movie, considering there was no squid.

Plus, that whole quote has to be one of the slimiest things I've read in a while. Note to douchenozzles: dissing Frank Quitely's art, the original Watchmen and Alan Moore isn't exactly the kind of thing that endears me to the project you're trying to sell to me.

[Pacino86845]

Was Hollywood going to make a sequel? I didn't get the feeling that the film was that big of a success. Also I thought this whole sequel thing was some sort of elaborate joke, but it's been a while and it's looking like the punchline is us.

[The Vicar]

Plus, that whole quote has to be one of the slimiest things I've read in a while. Note to douchenozzles: dissing Frank Quitely's art, the original Watchmen and Alan Moore isn't exactly the kind of thing that endears me to the project you're trying to sell to me.

Douchebaggery of the highest order.
Do. Not. Want.

[DennisMM]

I'm confused, as usual. Obviously, that's all a put-on. Notice the ship date for the supposed sequel was the week the movie would arrive on DVD. I think the insults are not to Moore and the original series but to Dan Didio's reputation for being an ass and John Byrne's well-known douchebaggery and general disregard for other creators. The swipe at the oddities of Quitely's art, and his scheduling problems, is rude, yes.

[Hermanator X]

Nothing to be confused about Dennis, its an article from a year ago, and clearly a load of bollocks. Prior even to the films release, when people didnt know if "the squid stays in the picture!" maybe. (Cant be bothered to check). But it looks like the article writer is having a little fun making shit up (but still extremely lame). I very much doubt that it was picked up as a story at the time by any other decent new sites, and if it had any reality about it, it would have done. It has nothing to do with the current news about possible sequels or spin offs in whatever media.

[Seppuku]

Yeah, I checked that website and that story was obviously cock and bullshit. I have to say, after spam, this 4chan-style shit is one of the things about the internet that pisses me off the most. I get rancoured enough at the things the execs actually do say without having to fume at fictional quotes.

That being said, I once got an idea for a fake obituary site a few years back that would probably have taken off with the shut-in teens if I'd started it... Very glad I didn't though.

[Fried Gold]

Apparently there was a real source of info regarding DC making a another Watchmen comic. (which wouldn't be totally abhorrent or unheard of)

But then it got mixed up with old false rumours about Zack Snyder/Warners making a film sequel. (Snyder said he wasn't interested anyway)

Now it seems noone is saying anything.

[Leckomaniac]

Apparently there was a real source of info regarding DC making a another Watchmen comic. (which wouldn't be totally abhorrent or unheard of)

But then it got mixed up with old false rumours about Zack Snyder/Warners making a film sequel. (Snyder said he wasn't interested anyway)

Now it seems noone is saying anything.

Nikke Finke has said there is NO truth to the rumors of a Watchmen movie sequel. There apparently HAS been discussion of a comic. FG, is correct.

[TheButcher]

Sorry for all the confusion.

Alan Moore's Godzilla:
http://pics.livejournal.com/dr_hermes/pic/0028s9zs
http://palaeoblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/ ... sical.html
http://giantmonsters.blogspot.com/2007/ ... zilla.html

[Fried Gold]

Welcome to the Mysterious World of Alan Moore - http://www.dodgemlogic.com/

[DennisMM]

I'm feeling a bit ripped off. I purchased Alan Moore's Yuggoth Cultures and Other Growths from Avatar Press. I knew that it was not all comics, that it included a great deal of script and essay work and interviews, but I flipped through the book and it seemed like a good buy. The back cover copy discusses the inclusion of "Night Jar," a lost story from the defunct Warrior magazine on which Bryan Talbot collaborated. Quite exciting stuff, that. The copy also reads, "As if that wasn't enough, Antony Johnston's Yuggoth Creatures,, a work inspired by Yuggoth Cultures and the worlds of HP Lovecraft, is included ... [yadda yadda, more about the artists]"

That copy makes it sound as if the Johnston contribution is minor, a bit of filler to pad the book, at most an interesting spin-off from Moore's writing. It's 160 pages, half the book. I'd take it back to my LCS, but they'd say I could have checked the table of contents, which I could have. I think I'll ask Avatar for a deal; I'll send them the back half of the book if they'll send me a check for $15 US.

[TheButcher]

From io9:
Alan Moore's Cthulhu comic is coming. Gird brain for explosion.

From Newsarama Old 06-01-2008:
WW PHILLY: THE AVATAR PANEL

Alan Moore will also be creating a 48-page graphic novel for Avatar, titled Light of thy Countenance, due in early 2009, and he’s working with Jacen Burrows on a horror series titled Neonomicon. Christensen said that while working on the book, Moore asked him, “There are no editorial restrictions at all? You’re sure?” Christensen replied, “There are things that will get me thrown in jail,” and Moore said, “Right. What are those?”

“Talk about somebody who still scares the piss out of me when I call him on the phone,” Christensen said.

From Bleeding Cool:
Jacen Burrows On Alan Moore’s Neonomicon – Avatar Interview Of The Week

[Hermanator X]

The Infinite Monkey Cage Podcast

Science/comedy chat with Brian Cox, Robin Ince and guests. Witty, irreverent look at the world according to science with physicist Brian Cox and comedian Robin Ince.

Brian Cox and Robin Ince are joined by Jonathan Ross, graphic novelist Alan Moore and string theorist Brian Greene for a special science fiction themed programme.

Because its on the BBC you need to download it within a week after it aired. It was on today, so you have plenty of time. As far as I know, their arent any regional restrictions on the audio content, so it should be available wherever you happen to be.
I listened to it live, and its a decent listen. Anyhoo, enjoy.

[Pacino86845]

Just downloaded it, thanks for the heads up Herm!

[TonyWilson]

Cool cool, cheers for the link.

[Fried Gold]

Just downloaded it, thanks for the heads up Herm!

Cool cool, cheers for the link.

You mean neither of you were already subscribed to Infinite Monkey Cage?

Fail.

[Hermanator X]

I hadnt heard of it until today. Seems to have passed me by. Ho hum.

[magicmonkey]

Oh fantastic, I heard this plugged whilst listening to some of their Glastonbury coverage, I made a note of it and then MISSED it! Doh!. Many thanks for the link Herm!

[TheButcher]

Hipster Priest: A Quietus Interview With Alan Moore





Alan Moore Interview on Dodgem Logic Issue 3

[TheButcher]

From Newsarama:
ALAN MOORE Refused WATCHMEN Rights

The enigmatic creator revealed DC offered him the rights to Watchmen back in exchanges for prequels and sequels

Full Article from WIRED:
Alan Moore: ‘I Don’t Want Watchmen Back’

[TheButcher]

From CBR:
CCI: Didio Talks "Watchmen"

"Realistically, we naturally never really comment about any deals – perspective or ones that we close otherwise," Dido said of Moore's statements. "But the one thing that we've been saying for a while is that 'Watchmen' is truly one of the premier projects out there, and if we were ever to proceed with [a sequel] the most logical place to start would be with Alan and Dave. For me, it's one of those things that's still one of the crown jewels in comics, and if you ever wanted to approach it, you'd have to do it in that manner – making sure the best talent available and possible was working on it."

[magicmonkey]

Nice profile piece in teh Grauniad with some nice info about "Unearthing".

[TheButcher]

From The New York Times: Hero of Comic-Book World Gets Real

[Leckomaniac]

Brian Michael Bendis actually took a mini-shot at Alan Moore at Con.

He was talking about how much WATCHMEN meant to him and he was like, "but I just wish Alan would just shut the fuck up. It is just like, I love your work but stop talking!"

[Pacino86845]

Brian Michael Bender.

[DennisMM]

Yeah, because Bendis never gives interviews, never promotes his own work and wouldn't ever consider wanting to own his own creations. There's a reason I've never liked this guy much, and I think I've found it.