The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!)

Graphic novels. Weekly rags. The @$$holes.

Which Alan Moore comic stands a chance of becoming a decent movie?

Watchmen
35
57%
Miracleman
4
7%
A Small Killing
0
No votes
The Ballad of Halo Jones
2
3%
Promethea
1
2%
Skizz (just kidding)
0
No votes
Tom Strong
4
7%
The Bojeffries Saga
1
2%
none of the above
14
23%
 
Total votes : 61

Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!)

Postby The Vicar on Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:17 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:Brian Michael Bender.


Wait a sec.....what are you insinuating?.......oh wait....I get it.
Yeah, you're right. Continue.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!)

Postby TheButcher on Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:33 am

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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:48 am

From CBR Where The Hell Am I:
THE YEAR I STOPPED CARING ABOUT ALAN MOORE
Jason Aaron wrote:2010 will long be remembered for many big comic book news stories. It's the year that DC almost moved west and Marvel got working restrooms. It's a year in which Grant Morrison continued to craft some of the most amazingly imaginative Batman stories ever put to paper while I wrote a story where Forbush Man shot me in the face. It's the year Rick Remender finally started to shave.

But I'll always remember 2010 for another reason.

It's the year I finally stopped giving a shit about Alan Moore.

Used to be, I cared a whole lot about Mr. Moore. I was a kid first getting into comics when his landmark "Swamp Thing" run started, and I was as blown away as anyone. I proceeded to seek out everything with Moore's name on it. I devoured "Watchmen" issue by issue and loved it so much I even convinced my mom to read it (she liked it too). There wasn't a comic book store anywhere in my area, but I still managed to track down copies of Moore's Omega Men and Green Arrow back-ups, the Green Lantern Corps shorts, the "Superman Annual" and all the other little DCU tidbits here and there. I still remember how excited I was when I came across his two part Vigilante story on the rack at a used bookstore in my tiny hometown. The first few comic conventions I went to, I eagerly snatched up every old issue of "Warrior Magazine" I could find. I bought "Marvelman"/"Miracleman" in all its various forms. Later, when the first comic store opened nearby, I eagerly awaited every new issue of "Big Numbers" (still waiting) and each new installment of "From Hell" (still my all-time favorite graphic novel). I bought all his Image work, even the really shitty stuff (and c'mon, we can all admit there was some really shitty stuff in there, right?), but I never complained. I loved his run on "Supreme." I bought every issue of every ABC series. I read his novel and listened to his weird CDs. I sympathized with him as every shitty new movie version of one of his genius books was released. I envied his beard.

In other words, I've always been the hugest of Alan Moore fans. I've supported pretty much everything he's ever done. I've spent a lot of money on him over the years, at times when I didn't have much money to spend. That special magic cave he had built under his house was at least partially paid for by me. But just how has Alan Moore seen fit to thank me for all the support and adoration I've shown him over the years?

By throwing me under the bus, that's how.

In case you missed last year's latest round of interviews, where Moore ranted about DC's desire to produce "Watchmen" sequels, here are some choice excerpts:

When Dave Gibbons phoned me up, he assured me that these prequels and sequels would be handled by ‘the industry's top-flight talents'. Now, I don't think that the contemporary industry actually has a ‘top-flight' of talent. I don't think it's even got a middle-flight or a bottom-flight of talent…

At the end of the day, if they haven't got any properties that are valuable enough, but they have got these ‘top-flight industry creators' that are ready to produce these prequels and sequels to Watchmen, well this is probably a radical idea, but could they not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators' to come up with an idea of their own? Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything? Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since? I could ask about why Marvel Comics are churning out or planning to bring out my ancient Marvelman stories, which are even older, if they had a viable idea of their own in the quarter-century since I wrote those works. I mean, surely that would be a much easier solution than all of this clandestine stuff? Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. It shouldn't be too big an ask, should it? I wouldn't have thought so. And it would solve an awful lot of problems. They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren't.


Alan Moore was a big reason I became a comic book writer. He was my first favorite writer. The first creator whose work I would buy sight unseen, just based off his name. His "Watchmen" scripts were the first comic scripts I ever saw. I remember a few years ago, when I sat down to write my first "Hellblazer" issue, the sense of panic and excitement that rushed through me as it suddenly dawned on me that I was about to put words in the mouth of a character created by Alan Moore. As a comic book writer, I am mostly definitely a child of Alan Moore, whether it shows in my work or not. He had one of the most profound influences on me of any writer in comics.

But I guess all I've done is let the old man down.

Apparently it's my fault, as a modern-day comic creator, that poor Alan Moore continues to be so bedeviled by Marvel and DC. If I just didn't suck so bad, along with all my peers, then comic book companies wouldn't have to keep making Moore so miserable. To that I say...

Go fuck yourself, Alan Moore.

And also, goodbye.

With the end of 2010 comes the end of my interest in anything you might ever again say or do. You may go on in your waning years to write the greatest works of your entire career, but you won't get another dime out of me. Nor will you get any more of my sympathy. This is me officially tuning you out for good. Thanks for the memories.

"That's too harsh," you might say. After all, Moore's a rather squirrelly old man who worships a snake god. He probably doesn't even know what he's saying, and he does have every right to be upset about possible "Watchmen" sequels. I mean, as a fan, I don't want to see those either. And besides, he's said many times before that he doesn't even read comics anymore, so he really doesn't even know what he's talking about. It's certainly nothing I should take personal.

But I do.

As a fan, I'd just rather not support someone who so blatantly insults me and my friends.

I know comics has always had and will always have its share of bitter old men. And usually those guys have every right to be bitter as the industry has a long track record of fucking over creators. But I've never had one of them actually blame me for their problems before. And I won't stand by and let Alan Moore do it either, no matter how amazing his beard might be.

So goodnight Alan Moore, wherever you are. I'd wish you happiness in the New Year, but you probably wouldn't know what to do with it, would you? Just stay bitter. And those of us in today's comic industry will stay shitty. And hopefully the two of us will never meet again.

To the rest of you I say, Happy New Year.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:03 am

So, has Jason Aaron written any original comic stories?
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:41 am

Retardo_Montalban wrote:So, has Jason Aaron written any original comic stories?

I don't know.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:50 am

Then Alan Moore probably has a point.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:24 pm

So there has been a big hub bub in the last 24 hours regarding an interview Alan Moore gave in 2009. In the interview, Alan Moore says the following:

When Dave Gibbons phoned me up, he assured me that these prequels and sequels would be handled by ‘the industry’s top-flight talents’. Now, I don’t think that the contemporary industry actually has a ‘top-flight’ of talent. I don’t think it’s even got a middle-flight or a bottom-flight of talent…

At the end of the day, if they haven’t got any properties that are valuable enough, but they have got these ‘top-flight industry creators’ that are ready to produce these prequels and sequels to Watchmen, well this is probably a radical idea, but could they not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators’ to come up with an idea of their own? Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything? Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since? I could ask about why Marvel Comics are churning out or planning to bring out my ancient Marvelman stories, which are even older, if they had a viable idea of their own in the quarter-century since I wrote those works. I mean, surely that would be a much easier solution than all of this clandestine stuff? Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. It shouldn’t be too big an ask, should it? I wouldn’t have thought so. And it would solve an awful lot of problems. They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren’t.


Current Marvel writer and SCALPED creator Jason Aaron, apparently, only now stumbled upon this interview and reacted at Comic Book Resources saying (in short):

Go fuck yourself, Alan Moore.

And also, goodbye.

With the end of 2010 comes the end of my interest in anything you might ever again say or do. You may go on in your waning years to write the greatest works of your entire career, but you won’t get another dime out of me. Nor will you get any more of my sympathy. This is me officially tuning you out for good. Thanks for the memories.


Clarifying further:

As a fan, I’d just rather not support someone who so blatantly insults me and my friends.

I know comics has always had and will always have its share of bitter old men. And usually those guys have every right to be bitter as the industry has a long track record of fucking over creators. But I’ve never had one of them actually blame me for their problems before. And I won’t stand by and let Alan Moore do it either, no matter how amazing his beard might be.

So goodnight Alan Moore, wherever you are. I’d wish you happiness in the New Year, but you probably wouldn’t know what to do with it, would you? Just stay bitter. And those of us in today’s comic industry will stay shitty. And hopefully the two of us will never meet again.


And so, the industry took to twitter to react!

For a good round-up of the reactions and this whole thing, head to Bleeding Cool.

But Rich Johnston explains the situation perfectly at the end:

But since, it was Bleeding Cool where this all started, here are five points that I think are worth ruminating upon, whatever their relevance.

Comic Book Resources, who publish Jason Aaron’s retort, declined to publish the original interview by Adi Tantimedh with Alan Moore. Which is how Bleeding Cool came by it! We were very happy with sloppy seconds…

It reminds me quite a lot of Richard Herring’s Christ On A Bike show (currently on in London) – as Richard Herring’s mother asked him, and as he reproduces in audio in the show “If you’re so sure Jesus does not exist, why do you spend so much time reading and talking about him?”. If this really was the year that Jason Aaron stopped caring about Alan Moore, why write such an article about him? He must still care a little bit, if only to express such anger…

Alan’s fight with DC Comics led to DC being much nicer to comic creators so as not to have a repeat performance. Their creator ownership/creator participant contract for certain titles, including Scalped, was a direct result of that. Indeed, Vertigo itself as a imprint owes more to Alan than any other creator. Without Alan, there wouldn’t be a Scalped - at least, not published by DC.

Alan generally does these kind of interviews in a very self deprecatory, ironic toe. It’s the way he talks. I gave an example of that at the beginning of the interview, because I know how his words can be taken if read in a different manner. Try watching the video, then reading the piece again in that voice. When Alan is talking about the comics industry having no top flight talent – he’s including himself in that analysis. And I don’t think he’s blaming any creator for his problems, or the problems of a retro-looking industry, he’s blaming the companies.

Getting caught up in creator’s opinions can deny you from enjoying some truly excellent work. If that’s a principled stance of yours, fine. But what happens when you work with, work for, such people. Because there are people at or working for DC and Marvel who have issued death threats against creators, who have stolen wives and husbands from each other, who have embezzled from each other, sexually and racially harassed each other and have plain screwed each other over. I don’t believe Jason can have isolated himself entirely from that knowledge. Far worse than someone who can’t affect your career indirectly implying that you belong to a group of people who may not be a top flight talent, when they haven’t read your work.


It seems to me that Moore was issuing a similar call to arms as Robert Kirkman made. If there are top-flight creators in the industry, let them make their own successful properties for DC, Marvel, etc. Why waste them on re-treading 25 year old properties?

And as Rich Johnston rightfully points out, the modern DC environment is due in large part to Moore's struggles. So calling him "bitter" when you are directly benefiting from the fruits of his labors is hilariously embarrassing for Aaron. Had Aaron gone through similar issues, perhaps he would be "bitter" too.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Pacino86845 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:16 pm

I think a couple of the posts above yours are discussing this issue, Lecko.

Yes, anyone who disses Alan Moore needs check themself before they wreck themself.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Fried Gold on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:54 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:So, has Jason Aaron written any original comic stories?

Apparently so. I had to look him up on Wikipedia though, as I had no idea who he was.

I think we covered this interview a while ago and concluded that Alan Moore was correct in his assumption that if DC & Marvel had this "high-quality top-level talent" spoken about, they'd be creating their own high-quality top-level creations.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:I think a couple of the posts above yours are discussing this issue, Lecko.

Yes, anyone who disses Alan Moore needs check themself before they wreck themself.


My bad. To be perfectly honest, I forgot anybody paid attention to the comics forum and just never anticipated this story coming up. I had forgotten about The Butchers resilience. :oops:

Part foul on me.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby The Vicar on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:36 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
Retardo_Montalban wrote:So, has Jason Aaron written any original comic stories?

Apparently so. I had to look him up on Wikipedia though, as I had no idea who he was.

I think we covered this interview a while ago and concluded that Alan Moore was correct in his assumption that if DC & Marvel had this "high-quality top-level talent" spoken about, they'd be creating their own high-quality top-level creations.


That will remain a salient point for, well, forever.
Writers rewrite Romeo and Juliet every five minutes. Buddy cop movies out the tuchus.
"Top level talent" expected to, I dunno, write something brills on their own
without pawing at the dirt of an overly molested grave?
Now THERE'S fiction!
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:08 am

I think I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Johnston. The problem isn't a lack of "high-quality top-level talent," it's a lack of publishers interested in high-quality top-level creativity. If the former were true why do we have individual threads devoted to certain talent? I am speaking rather generally here, but for DC and Marvel in particular it's in their best interest to hire people who can perform in a regular and timely fashion. They also have fans and shareholders to please. I'm sure they would love to publish a Pulitzer winning mini-series about the horrible tragedies of human trafficking, but unless it stars Batman it won't be in a shop near you.
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Re: Alan Moore vs BJ and the Bear

Postby TheButcher on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:31 am

Comic Book Legends Revealed #302

Brian Cronin wrote:COMIC LEGEND: Alan Moore wrote and drew a BJ and the Bear story.

STATUS: True

Reader Jeff wrote in a few weeks back to ask,

“A friend told me that Alan Moore once wrote a comic book about BJ and the Bear. Is that for real?”

Amazingly enough, Jeff, it is, in fact, for real.

In 1982, BJ and the Bear got an annual over in the United Kingdom by Grandreams.

In it, Moore produced TWO articles (text and art). One was a piece on CB radio slang. The other was a short story about monkeys.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:25 pm

False. Neither of those is a BJ and the Bear story. But it's fun that Moore had material in a BJ&TB magazine.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky
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Re:The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Omnibus

Postby TheButcher on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:07 pm

DC Sucks Final Drops From League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen Barrel
Rich Johnston wrote:After the V For Vendetta confrontation, the Alan Moore walkout and the absolute farrago of nonsense surrounding the release of Black Dossier, you might have thought DC would have had it up to here with the League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Not a bit of it.

Because in November, DC is releasing a League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen Omnibus. And at 416 pages long, that’s enough to fit both series and the Black Dossier. Bet there won’t be a vinyl record enclosed though. And what about the paper stock and sizes for the Dossier? Could be a tricky one…
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Re: Alan Moore’s Complete WildC.A.T.S

Postby TheButcher on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:11 pm

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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:12 pm

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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:00 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
Is This The De-AlanMooreification Of The DC Universe?
It wasn’t that long ago that Alan Moore declared that DC’s current work was based on his own stuff for them years ago, and he wished they’d come up with something new.
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League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century: 1969

Postby TheButcher on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:01 pm

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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:03 pm

It's about freakin' time: I think it's been like two years since the previous book came out.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:59 pm

What Would An Alan Moore Digital Comic Look Like?
…Because he’s apparently working on one, according to this interview with the Guardian:

The way the comics companies I believe are producing online comics is that they are old comics uploaded online and made available. That I don’t think is the way to do it, because comics storytelling is entirely predicated upon the print technologies of the late 1930s. We have six panels of page on average because that was the optimum numbers of panels to put on a page in a periodical of something like 32 pages. This is what has formed the very language of the comic book. The fact that you turn over the pages. And you can time it so that turning over a page will be the moment of some big revelation. Which you wouldn’t want your reader to have spotted on page 24 just because it’s opposite page 23. And subtler things that really affected the way that a comic story should be told.So what I’m saying is that I don’t think these devices are quite there yet but they have some very interesting possibilities. But before we would be thinking about putting something like the League into that format, I would want to think long and hard about the possible advantages of that new medium and the ways in which my storytelling craft would have to be adapted to best effect from this new medium. Much the same as when comics were just a 24-page thing that you drew on pieces of paper. I was always trying to find what the medium was capable of and to push it as far as possible. Like I said I’ve been having some thoughts about this. People shouldn’t be too surprised if they were to hear something about me working in this kind of area.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:34 am

I wonder if Alan Moore doesn't care for Mick Jagger? 1969 suggests that it's possible.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Pacino86845 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:21 pm

Your comment is potentially hilarious once I've got my hands on that book and read it.

LOL in advance, sir!
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Re: The Alan Moore thread ( Supreme )

Postby TheButcher on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:20 pm

From Newsarama:
NYCC 2011: Creator-Owned With ROBERT KIRKMAN LIVE!
"One night, Erik Larsen was out with us and he said "this is what I'd do with Supreme"

So... Erik Larsen is illustrating the last issues of Alan Moore's Supreme, and then is going to jump on and continue the story.
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:54 pm

The Return Of Watchmen 2
Rich Johnston wrote:A couple of years ago, Bleeding Cool broke the news that DC Comics was planning to return to Watchmen to tell new stories. Dave Gibbons would be involved as well as many of DC’s brightest stars.

The very concept was pooh-poohed and Bleeding Cool was accused to making the whole thing up, by some. Until Alan Moore confirmed that he had been approached to, if nothing else, acquiesce to the project, in return for subsequently being granted the ownership rights to Watchmen that he had once sought, at a later date. He turned the idea down, and the media attention seemed to kill the project.

For a while.

I was told before New York Comic Con that it might be back on and that DC were drawing up a wishlist of creators for a series of Watchmen prequel comics.. Well, I’ve now heard a lot more. Darwyn Cooke’s name is at the very top, linked to drawing two mini-series and writing another, followed by the likes of JMS, JG Jones, Andy Kubert and Brian Azzarello. Whether or not they have been approached, I don’t know, and no one’s talking, but it gives you an idea of the scale. I would also expect Dave Gibbons and John Higgins to be involved in some way.

I’ve also been told that there’s a creative meeting happening this week and the project has a secret name, “Panic Room” – as in that’s where the creators will need to go when the news breaks….

DC declined to comment. Just as he did last time, Dave Gibbons would only say “hurm”.

Image by Todd Kogutt.
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:44 pm

Squirrelling Out Details On Watchmen 2
Rich Johnston wrote:Sometimes all you do is have to mention its name, and lots of bits spill out.

Two days ago, Bleeding Cool mentioned that Watchmen prequels at DC were back on the agenda, after the success of the New 52. That meetings were happening this week. That it had the code name “Panic Room”. That names mentioned included Dave Gibbons, John Higgins, Darwyn Cooke, JMS, JG Jones, Andy Kubert and more.

Indeed I am now told that there will be four Watchmen miniseries, all prequels. Working off an over-arching uber-plot by Darwyn, who will be writing and drawing on aa book or two.

I believe the phrase I’m looking for is “this shit just got real”. Sorry, I was in America for a few days, that kind of language rubs off on me. Let me try again. “Pip pip, that’s some bally cricket, what?” Better.

However a word of warning. There have been three names mentioned to me, Amanda Conner, Kevin Smith and Adam Hughes which have all proved to be false. It may indicate that the names were more of a wish list, people who would be approached rather than who actually signed on the dotted line.

But MTV Geek found a comment from Darwyn Cooke from earlier in the year when he said;
I have something coming up with DC, but I’m sworn to secrecy…there is a very big project on the horizon with DC, which we’re probably going to announce in October, as far as I understand. And that should be exciting, and infuriating, and all kinds of things to people. It should be quite a shock when they hear what we’re doing.”

And Little Bleeder chatting to Andy Kubert over the weekend discovered that;
“Mr.Kubert said that after his Action Comics job he was hoping to finish a Batman mini-series about Damian. This was a mini that he was writing and drawing and was originally planned before Flashpoint and the New 52. After that he said he has another project but it’s “Super Secret” and that he couldn’t give any details. The last time I spoke to Andy Kubert was at the Big Apple Con in 2009. When we spoke he said he was going to be doing a “Super Secret” project that he couldn’t talk about, turned out it was “Flashpoint”. So if Andy Kubert has a big job coming up and DC is saying that they’re doing an event for the next two years, then what is Kubert doing?”

What, indeed. DC declined to comment.
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:28 pm

The Phone Call That Confirmed Watchmen 2
Rich Johnston wrote:
“How did you know? How did you know? I didn’t know. How did you know?”

That was the phone call I got at 3 o’clock in the morning my time, 10 in the evening in New York. It was clearly from a bar, it was from a DC editorial type, and it was clearly in reference to the Watchmen prequels I’ve been talking about that, post new-52, are back on the table with Darwyn Cooke taking artistic lead. And it had been kept such a secret that certain employees of a relatively senior level had not heard a thing. And, on reading the Bleeding Cool articles, had made some enquiries.

“A conversation I had with Darwyn back in March makes all the much more sense now. When asking him what he has going on he mentions that he can’t talk about it but it “would break the internet in half”.” – g_zatara, Bendis boards


What is also clear that a decent sized chunk of DC is not on board for this. That they love Watchmen as it is, and see these prequel mini-series as diluting that. But there are also those who see not doing this as blatantly laving money on the table at a time when they can least afford to. And from a moral and creative viewpoint, no different to what Alan Moore has done with the League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Indeed, some relish the tas, especially with Dave Gibbons on board.

And with Grant Morrison creating his own Watchmen-styled Charlton treatment in Multiversity, it looks like there’s going to be a lot of cod-Watchmen going around next year.

I also had some more phone calls from NEw York bars in the last couple of nights. More on that to come later.
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Re: Alan Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes

Postby TheButcher on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:00 am

Abandoned Alan Moore comic would have destroyed the DC Universe
Don Kaye wrote:After the success of Watchmen, legendary comic book writer Alan Moore proposed something even more radical: destroying the DC Universe as we knew it.

A Moore retrospective at What Culture has included a look at Twilight of the Superheroes, a miniseries proposal that Moore pitched to DC two years before leaving the company in 1989. Had DC accepted it, and Moore stuck around to write it, the series would have drastically changed the DC Universe for good, stripping it of all but its human (non-powered) heroes and having even them recant their ways.

The story would have kicked off with John "Hellblazer" Constantine receiving a message in 1987 from 20 years in the future from Rip Hunter, who tells Constantine that cataclysmic events have left all of the world's governments and most of society in a state of collapse. Naturally, people turn to superheroes for guidance and leadership—but years of this have left many of the heroes themselves as nasty, cruel, power-mad tyrants.

The heroes are divided into Houses, with Superman and his now-wife Wonder Woman leading the House of Steel and controlling the eastern half of the U.S., while Captain Marvel and family have established their domain in the west as the House of Thunder. There's also a House of Titans (former Teen Titans), a House of Justice (ex-Justice League members) and so on, but Steel and Thunder are the most powerful.

The remaining super villains, led by the Joker and Lex Luthor, hole up in Nevada as the House of Secrets after a worldwide purge, while Batman leads the non-powered heroes in an effort to overthrow the two dominant Houses. All aliens, including the Green Lanterns, have been banished. But everyone soon gets involved in a plot to destroy the Houses of Thunder and Steel before a wedding between Superboy and Mary Marvel, Jr. unites them into potentially the most powerful force in the universe.

Moore apparently intended to take down almost everyone in this epic storyline, leaving just Batman, the Shadow and the other surviving humans to throw off their old ways and rebuild society without the involvement of superheroes.

So what happened? It's not clear whether Moore left before the project could take shape, or if DC simply got cold feet about an arc that would paint many of the company's characters in the worst light possible and then kill them off. Moore apparently did propose reviving the Multiverse (which had been dormant since 1985) so that other writers could work outside his continuity, but that idea didn't take hold until years after he had exited.

The Twilight proposal briefly appeared online some years ago, only to be yanked by DC via the threat of legal action. Some theories suggest that ideas from the story later turned up in 1996's Kingdom Come, in which a younger generation of much less idealistic superheroes take over from their retired elders. Whatever the case may be, Twilight of the Superheroes is a true lost work from one of the comics' greatest living writers, available only to those lucky few who grabbed Moore's leaked proposal before it was hidden away forever.

Would you have liked to have seen Moore tear down the DC Universe once and for all? Or did his proposal go too far and is better off left unseen?
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Re: Alan Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes

Postby so sorry on Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:12 pm

TheButcher wrote:Abandoned Alan Moore comic would have destroyed the DC Universe
Don Kaye wrote:So what happened?


Well I assumed what happened was someone said this was one of the most ALF things they've ever read, and they kicked Moore's ass to the curb.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:49 am

The proposal was brilliant, if overreaching. I have a copy 'round these parts somewhere, or did. If I can find it, maybe I'll scan it and find a place to post it.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Bloo on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:47 am

I remember reading the proposal a couple of years ago and thinking it sounded very good but like Dennis said, overreaching. I thought the way he planned on using Constatine was very smart
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:59 pm

Andy Kubert To Draw Watchmen 2 (UPDATE)
Rich Johnston wrote:We’ve had his name mentioned to us before, regarding this project. There is circumstantial evidence to support it.

Well, today Bleeding Cool had it confirmed. Not officially of course, don’t be ridiculous. But we’ve been informed quite conclusively from a reliable source at DC Comics that Andy Kubert is drawing one of the four Watchmen prequel miniseries we’ve heard so much about. Taking one of the principle characters from the series and telling a pre-Watchmen tale.

But I understand he may not be the only Kubert getting involved with this.

Other people previously named include Darwyn Cooke (as the equivalent of mini-series showrunner), JMS, John Higgins and JG Jones. Oh, and Dave Gibbons.
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:42 pm

Watchmen 2 – Nite Owl, The Comedian And More
Rich Johnston wrote:Yesterday I ran what I believe is the first definitive creator casting for one of a number of Watchmen prequel mini-series, from a primary source. “Watchmen 2″ rapidly became the highest Twitter trending topic in the world. I’m not sure if that’s ever happened for a comic before.

But it also unearthed a couple of other potential castings from… let’s call them secondary sources. An amber light if you will.

Ones that have seem to have Darwyn Cooke talking about writing a Comedian series.

Others that have Darwyn Cooke arriving at the Canadian Fan Expo unannounced, to take Joe Kubert out for lunch. And the discussion? Reportedly, a Nite Owl series mini-series by Andy Kubert with his father, Joe Kubert, participating. Something that involved the original Nite Owl and his successor. Drawn by a father/son team.

I can’t judge as to the veracity of these. But doesn’t the idea of a Kubert/Kubert Nite Owl/Nite Owl II series just feel so right in your gut?

The other word I’ve had about Dave Gibbons’ involvement from the same sources as above, is that it’s not exactly an active one, more passive acquiescence – “for this wave”. Could four prequel mini-series just be the start?

I’ve also been told that NYCC was the intended venue to announce this project, but I should now look to January…
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:15 pm

Alan Moore on Frank Miller's "Occupy" statements, politics, the economy, and more.

Honest Publishing wrote:
HP: With the Occupy movement, it seems you and Frank Miller have conflicting views. Would you say that he’s against it and you’re for it?

AM: Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years. I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time. Since I don’t have anything to do with the comics industry, I don’t have anything to do with the people in it. I heard about the latest outpourings regarding the Occupy movement. It’s about what I’d expect from him. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of the comics field, if you had to place them politically, you’d have to say centre-right. That would be as far towards the liberal end of the spectrum as they would go. I’ve never been in any way, I don’t even know if I’m centre-left. I’ve been outspoken about that since the beginning of my career. So yes I think it would be fair to say that me and Frank Miller have diametrically opposing views upon all sorts of things, but certainly upon the Occupy movement.

As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs. I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail. I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it. I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.

HP: What do you think needs to change in our political system?

AM: Everything. I believe that what’s needed is a radical solution, by which I mean from the roots upwards. Our entire political thinking seems to me to be based upon medieval precepts. These things, they didn’t work particularly well five or six hundred years ago. Their slightly modified forms are not adequate at all for the rapidly changing territory of the 21st Century.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Peven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:18 pm

I love it, calling out Miller for preferring bands of rampaging hoodlums over peaceful protesters
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Re: The Return Of Watchmen 2

Postby TheButcher on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:06 am

From BC:
JG Jones To Draw The Comedian In Watchmen 2
Rich Johnston wrote:We’ve heard JG Jones linked to Watchmen prequel rumours before.

We’ve had reports of Darwyn Cooke writing a prequel mini-series starring The Comedian.

And now I’ve come across a rather reliable source that says JG Jones is drawing The Comedian.

So… do we have a Darwyn Cooke/JG Jones Comedian mini-series for next year?

It appears we may.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:35 pm

Big sigh. Obviously DC/Warner owns Watchmen. It can do whatever it wants with the property. I just wish they showed as much regard for the work as they do for Sandman. While Dream and his siblings have made brief appearances in other comics, Neil Gaiman's creations have mostly been left to their own devices. Why can't they do the same with Watchmen? Too much money to be made? That's all I can imagine. There are, after all, something like ten volumes of Sandman, in multiple formats, plus the deluxe editions. Watchmen is 400 pages, and they can only do so much with that.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TheButcher on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:29 am

From Bleeding Cool:
The Ethics Of Watchmen 2
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:51 pm

The ethics for me are simple: Watchmen is a work of art that should exist as it was created, barring minor corrections for coloring, spelling and so forth. While DC/Warner and the artists and writers involved are permitted to create these prequel stories, I will not support their existence, in spite of my devotion to the original work. I will not buy them. I will not read them in the store. I will do my best, when they are published, to ignore them, even in forums such as this and Bleeding Cool and CBR. They will not be part of my world. I suppose that makes me some sort of elitist, but isn't part of elitism the desire for everything to be and do its best?
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby Peven on Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:18 pm

no, elitism is considering yourself to be a higher quality judge of what is worthwhile or legitimate than everyone else.....
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:23 pm

I didn't mean the literal definitions. To me, part of being an elitist means wanting to be great and wanting things to be great.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby TonyWilson on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:34 am

I think we all know what elitism is.

COUGHCOUGHCOUGH
Elitism is positing that your taste is equivalent to quality, you hate "Hamlet" does it make it "bad"? If you think so, you're one elite motherfucker.
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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:04 pm

Have to disagree, Tony ol' chap. That's a narrow view of things. But I'll shut up now.
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Re: Watchmen 2 Art

Postby TheButcher on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:10 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
Watchmen 2 Art: The Comedian By JG Jones
Rich Johnston wrote:Bleeding Cool is proud to present the cover art to one of the Watchmen prequel products, currently being developed at DC Comics under the code name “Panic Room”. We present The Comedian by JG Jones.

It is possible we may hear more about this in the New Year.

We ran Nite Owl artwork from Andy Kubert and Joe Kubert earlier today, if you missed that.

A Merry Christmas to all from Bleeding Cool.
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Re: Watchmen 2 Art

Postby TheButcher on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:11 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
Watchmen 2 Art: Nite Owl By Andy Kubert And Joe Kubert
Rich Johnston wrote:Bleeding Cool is proud to present the cover art to one of the Watchmen prequel products, currently being developed at DC Comics under the code name “Panic Room”. We present Nite Owl by father and son team Joe Kubert and Andy Kubert.

I guess we might expect to hear more about this in the New Year.

Be back here at noon ET 9am PT/ 5pm GMT for more.

And a Merry Christmas to all from Bleeding Cool.
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Re: Watchmen 2 Art

Postby TheButcher on Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:05 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
DC Entertainment Demands Removal Of Watchmen 2 Artwork, Bleeding Cool Complies
Rich Johnston wrote:Who Watches The Watchmen rumours? At DC, it seems their legal department do, even on Christmas Day.

Yesterday, Bleeding Cool received the following letter from DC Entertainment;
Gentlemen:

It has come to our attention that you have impermissibly and without authorization posted assets containing unpublished intellectual property owned by DC Entertainment. We do not need to belabor the unlawful nature of this action (which could not have taken place without the breach of a confidentiality obligation), and demand that those assets be immediately taken down and no further postings of this nature transpire. This demand is made without limitation of DC Entertainment’s rights or remedies, all of which are expressly reserved.

Very truly yours,

AMY E. GENKINS
Senior Vice President, Business & Legal Affairs

A cease and desist letter on Christmas Day. Who’d have thought it? Except we weren’t exactly sure as to what it referred to, we have after all run substantial pieces on Dark Knight Rises very recently. Further communication, with our repeated request for clarification, today confirmed that Amy E Genkins was indeed referring to the Watchmen 2 pieces of art featuring the Comedian by JG Jones and Nite Owl by Joe and Andy Kubert.

As a result of confirming this, Bleeding Cool removed the artwork immediately. Certainly running the pieces is editorially justifiable, but it’s Christmas, so why not?

We have asked if io9, Comics Alliance, /Film, Comic Book Resources or any of the other sites that also ran the artwork have been similarly targeted, but the continued existence of their versions of our story suggest not. Or that they have bigger lawyers.

If nothing else, this does dismiss the belief among some that Bleeding Cool had just run some artwork from private commissions. These are clearly pieces of artwork that DC Comics has commissioned and has a claim to. And from others, that Bleeding Cool was being used as some surrogate disseminators of such information from DC.

We basically ended the year as we mean to go on…
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Re: Watchmen 2 Art

Postby TheButcher on Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:06 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
Watchmen 2: Amanda Conner To Draw Silk Spectre
Rich Johnston wrote:No, we don’t have the art to prove it. Sorry.

We heard Amanda Conner was attached to the Watchmen prequel comic, being produced at DC Comics under the fake name “Panic Room”, but it had been denied by those close to her.

However, we’ve now received more confirmatory details, and in one form or other, it appears that Amanda Conner is drawing a Silk Spectre project for DC Comics, presumably one of the four mini-series promised in the first “wave” of Watchmen prequels. The other two appear to be Nite Owl by Andy Kubert and The Comedian by JG Jones.

I wonder if it will bear any resemblance to The Pro?
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Re: Watchmen 2 aka PANIC ROOM!!!

Postby TheButcher on Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:44 pm

From Bleeding Cool:
Is There A Watchmen 2 Reference In Justice League #3?
Rich Johnston wrote:When Bleeding Cool first talked about the recent revival of the Watchmen prequel mini-series, we mentioned that the project was being referred to internally at DC Comics amongst select individuals as “Panic Room”.

One Little Bleeder pointed out a page from Justice League #3 by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee, the chief creative officer and co-publisher of DC respectively.

A “Panic Room” T-shirt?

How far down does the rabbit hole go?
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Re: Watchmen 2 aka PANIC ROOM!!!

Postby TheButcher on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:58 pm

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Re: The Alan Moore thread (all things bearded and be-ringed!

Postby DennisMM on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:35 am

That's rather uninspired.
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