Batman or Superman?

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If Batman and Superman got into a fight who would win?

Batman
42
54%
Superman
23
29%
King Kong
13
17%
 
Total votes : 78

Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:35 pm

Well I merely asked if you were dense I didn't call you dense.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:38 pm

Yeah okay... not seeing the difference there. Anyway, do read the book Men of Tomorrow. It's not so much about the character of Superman, but about his creators and the environment in which Super Heroic comics were invented.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:42 pm

So far Kaga has made the more compelling argument. Whatever scenario you put them both in, its their respective mores that separates them. You can bleat on about Supes' powers, but they aren't worth a damn if he hesitates at the critical point, or goes for a stun instead of a kill etc etc etc.

And Bats would manipulate the fight to cause those situations. Supes has the powers and Bats has the fighting smarts, variations, strategies and so on.

If you want to look at a Supes victory then you have to work within the character - whatever version you feel like - and somehow make a convincing argument for Supes to fight dirty.

I'm not saying it can't be done, only that so far, on this thread, it hasn't been done.

Personally I can't see how Krpytonite wouldn't be used. I know that makes for a short-lived fight, but that just goes to show what a pussy the boy scout really is :P
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:44 pm

So you fall into the Batman wins because Superman would have to let him win camp. Cheerio.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:46 pm

Thats the whole point though, isn't it? Supes doesn't have to let him win - instead he [Supes] simply loses. Its not like Bats is just sitting there waiting for Supes to knock his King over - he'd have engineered the whole thing.

And again with the 'failing to make a compelling argument'..... :P
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:59 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah okay... not seeing the difference there.

That sounds like you lack a sense of humor.
burlivesleftnut wrote:
Wow, you have like NO sense of humor do you. If you consider that a personal attack, then you really must not have much self esteem. It's a joke, dude.
Last edited by Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Al Shut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:59 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:So far Kaga has made the more compelling argument. Whatever scenario you put them both in, its their respective mores that separates them. You can bleat on about Supes' powers, but they aren't worth a damn if he hesitates at the critical point, or goes for a stun instead of a kill etc etc etc.

And Bats would manipulate the fight to cause those situations. Supes has the powers and Bats has the fighting smarts, variations, strategies and so on.

If you want to look at a Supes victory then you have to work within the character - whatever version you feel like - and somehow make a convincing argument for Supes to fight dirty.


Like in that horrible story where Superman killed some people, who were called the Elite I think, and then said he did it because he was afraid?

Even if you don't count Superman as a rocket scientist he knows damn well that BAtman doesn't fool around or would surrender or stuff like that.

So whatever elaborated plan Batman has it should better work really quick.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:59 pm

That's just it. I don't think you have made one Doc. I'm sorry but if these guys are going at it, for whatever reason, there is no way Bats takes Supes unless he uses Kryptonite, but then anyone could do it. That doesn't make Batman superior. It just makes Superman unfortunate. So again, if Kryptonite is NOT involved, and Superman's LIFE OR LIBERTY were being threatened by Batman... sorry Batman wouldn't stand a chance. Not in hell. I'm sorry if you don't BUY the argument, or that you don't think it's compelling enough, but whether you agree or not is irrelevant since you dismissed just about all the pro-Supes arguments.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 pm

That conveniently ignores Supes weaknesses other than Kryptonite. Magic for instance which Batman is well acquainted with though by no means an expert.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:03 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah okay... not seeing the difference there.

That sounds like you lack a sense of humor.


Kaga, if you can't see the difference between one online geek affectionately ribbing another by calling him "gayforbats" and another online geek questioning the intelligence of the other because the first geek either can't accept an opposing viewpoint OR has the inability to put together a cohesive argument, then just forget it. It's apparent you are one of these "I can't possibly be wrong" kind of guys. So have fun with your myopia.
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:04 pm

Guys, guys, guys. Phoenix eats sun, thus negating Superman's powers. PWNED.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:05 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:That conveniently ignores Supes weaknesses other than Kryptonite. Magic for instance which Batman is well acquainted with though by no means an expert.


Good point, but that ignores Batman's weakness to crushing blows by someone who can hurtle planets, or his weakness to getting incinerated by heat vision from 100 miles above him.
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:08 pm

Ribbons wrote:Guys, guys, guys. Phoenix eats sun, thus negating Superman's powers. PWNED.


Oops, I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread! PWNED... :oops:
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Postby buster00 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:11 pm

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This would be a far more interesting fight.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:12 pm

Sorry if I was dismissive - that wasn't the 'tude I was aiming for. I just see it that you could break out any number of scenarios to suit whichever of the two you personally favour. So I'm looking at it as all the other strengths and weaknesses between each character ultimately cancel each other out - but their respective moral code is the one constant that is up for genuine debate.

See, now you say that Supes pre-empts Bats and if his Life or Liberty is at stake he'd pound Bats into the ground. And I'm thinking - but Bats would work within that. He'd pre-empt Supes. Yes he'd have to work fast - and so he would. By the time Supes realised his Life or Liberty was at stake, he'd have already lost.

But then, I guess a Supes fan would say "AHA! But Supes is no dummy - he'd have realised THAT as well..."

And then I'd say "AHA! But Bats would have allowed for that".

Suddenly I'm thinking of the poisoning scene from Princess Bride. :D

I do prefer Bats - but I'm open to hearing theories about Supes. So far The Todd's post is closest to how I feel.

One way I can't see Bats winning is if the fight began with them standing toe-to-toe like in a ring or something.
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Postby Al Shut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:13 pm

How many Kryptonite is in a can of spinach?
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:14 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah okay... not seeing the difference there.

That sounds like you lack a sense of humor.


Kaga, if you can't see the difference between one online geek affectionately ribbing another by calling him "gayforbats" and another online geek questioning the intelligence of the other because the first geek either can't accept an opposing viewpoint OR has the inability to put together a cohesive argument, then just forget it. It's apparent you are one of these "I can't possibly be wrong" kind of guys. So have fun with your myopia.

Who says I was not ribbing you? Why are your insults comical, good natured fun while mine are absolute infamy? You seem to be the one easily ruffled here. I'm not the one who chose to shift focus into ad hominems.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:22 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:Sorry if I was dismissive - that wasn't the 'tude I was aiming for. I just see it that you could break out any number of scenarios to suit whichever of the two you personally favour. So I'm looking at it as all the other strengths and weaknesses between each character ultimately cancel each other out - but their respective moral code is the one constant that is up for genuine debate.

See, now you say that Supes pre-empts Bats and if his Life or Liberty is at stake he'd pound Bats into the ground. And I'm thinking - but Bats would work within that. He'd pre-empt Supes. Yes he'd have to work fast - and so he would. By the time Supes realised his Life or Liberty was at stake, he'd have already lost.

But then, I guess a Supes fan would say "AHA! But Supes is no dummy - he'd have realised THAT as well..."

And then I'd say "AHA! But Bats would have allowed for that".

Suddenly I'm thinking of the poisoning scene from Princess Bride. :D

I do prefer Bats - but I'm open to hearing theories about Supes. So far The Todd's post is closest to how I feel.

One way I can't see Bats winning is if the fight began with them standing toe-to-toe like in a ring or something.


Yeah it's all this or that. There have been scenarios in the books where both sides have won. No one even pointed this out when I brought it up the other day, but when Superman pwnt Batman during Infinite Crisis, he was under the control of someone else lol. Suckers could have had me THERE.

But I just can't let my personal feelings about batman and superman aside. I do think Batman is terribly overrated. So I'll be upfront and say that no matter WHAT Batman does, I think Superman would best him. Hell I think even WITH kryptonite involved Superman would find a way. He always does. I mean Lois could run up and be all, "omg you kryptonian dipshit why am I always having to pull this fucking green rock out of your asshole wtf lol" and the Superman would be Up Up and Away again.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:26 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote: I mean Lois could run up and be all, "omg you kryptonian dipshit why am I always having to pull this fucking green rock out of your asshole wtf lol" and the Superman would be Up Up and Away again.

You should try to get that down before Singer steals it.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:27 pm

I'm mailing it to myself RIGHT NOW!
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:30 pm

Has Superman said Up, Up, and Away outside of the Fleischer shorts? He should have in Quest for Peace.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:31 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah it's all this or that. There have been scenarios in the books where both sides have won. No one even pointed this out when I brought it up the other day, but when Superman pwnt Batman during Infinite Crisis, he was under the control of someone else lol. Suckers could have had me THERE.


Wellllll - note how I conveniently chose 'the one constant' as being one of the ones where Bats arguably has a bit of an edge! If we were to focus on, say, heat lasers from eyes then the ground starts feeling a little less firm, here in the BatCamp :?

burlivesleftnut wrote:But I just can't let my personal feelings about batman and superman aside. I do think Batman is terribly overrated. So I'll be upfront and say that no matter WHAT Batman does, I think Superman would best him. Hell I think even WITH kryptonite involved Superman would find a way. He always does. I mean Lois could run up and be all, "omg you kryptonian dipshit why am I always having to pull this fucking green rock out of your asshole wtf lol" and the Superman would be Up Up and Away again.


PAMP! :lol:

My natural reaction was to bring Robin into it at this point. But let's be honest, he'd be back in the Batmobile crying out "Holy Safety-Childlock Batman! Why do I always have to stay in the car!"
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:39 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah it's all this or that. There have been scenarios in the books where both sides have won. No one even pointed this out when I brought it up the other day, but when Superman pwnt Batman during Infinite Crisis, he was under the control of someone else lol. Suckers could have had me THERE.


Wellllll - note how I conveniently chose 'the one constant' as being one of the ones where Bats arguably has a bit of an edge! If we were to focus on, say, heat lasers from eyes then the ground starts feeling a little less firm, here in the BatCamp :?

Well the same happened in HUSH when Bats got his ass kicked until he whipped out the Kryptonite. This also just happened in Justice as well but I can't remember how they stopped mind controlled Supes. I'm behind on issues.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:42 pm

He didn't I don't think. Wonder Woman had to take out mind controlled Batman. It was Captain Marvel who took out Superman.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:44 pm

Oh yeah Bats had to keep wearing the lasso to keep "himself".
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Postby instant_karma on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:57 pm

Balls.
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Postby buster00 on Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:30 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:Oh yeah Bats had to keep wearing the lasso to keep "himself".


Lucky rich bastard...
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Re: Batman or Superman?

Postby TheButcher on Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:51 pm

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