New Top 10 Issue

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New Top 10 Issue

Postby JackKnight on Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:16 pm

Anyone else read this one? Came out yesterday and tried to tie up way too many subplots and loose ends all at once. Was it supposed to be a five issue mini or did they decide to cut it down because sales weren't there? It felt like it should have gone on at least ten or twelve issues in order to get everything done.

Also, I must say I didn't enjoy the artwork this go around as much in the first 'season' of it. All the little cameos and hidden heroes in the backgrounds didn't seem to work as well. And the plots were not as compelling as in the first series.

If you haven't read Top 10, try out the tpb of the first season as that is by far superior.
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Postby Colin on Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:15 pm

It was always intended as a 5 issue mini. I haven't read it yet myself, but I may flip through the trade when it's released. I loved the characters but I don't know if anyone other than Moore could handle that immense a cast.

Is it just an all-new story, like a "Season 2" or an all-new cast, like "Next Generation"?
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:19 pm

I've enjoyed the art, but Ordway has been a favorite since All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc.. (Has anyone else here even read those?)

The writing couldn't begin to match Moore's. He balanced so many cast members, seemingly without effort. The comedy didn't intrude on the drama, which didn't intrude on the melodrama.
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Postby Colin on Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:27 pm

Should I even bother flipping through it, do you think? He did consult on the story, I'm assuming.
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Postby Gheorghe Zamfir on Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:33 pm

I don't think I even have the heart to check this out without Moore heading it up, from the sound of it there doesn't seem to be much reason for me to betray that instinct. So I take it Gene Ha isn't back on this either?
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Postby Colin on Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:02 pm

No, it's Jerry Ordway.
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:21 pm

I don't think Moore is involved at all, else they would have given him credit somewhere, if only in the blurb at the back. He's cut his ties to Wildstorm and isn't writing anything that wasn't previously contracted.
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Postby JackKnight on Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:45 pm

I think it's worth a look, but I think the story was too big to be contained by a five issue mini. That's the main issue. And the big reveal of who the bad guy is and his ties to Season 1 of Top 10, my reaction was a big "meh". It just didn't resonate.

It's almost all the same cast, with a few new folks. However instead of delving into anyone's background, it was just more of the same o same o. Peregrine is a devout Christian...Jackie Phantom is a lesbian...Smax is a dick... there are some nods to the Smax mini-series but some of the more interesting characters (ie..Joe Pi, Irma Geddon) got almost no play at all.

I agree that Moore is ten times better at balancing all those characters and giving them all some play. Oh and there is another visit to grand central in this series and it was about five pages of wasted space.

I'm not sure I'd buy the trade, but it's certainly worth taking a look. Anyone who reads it all the way through, tell me if you agree...shouldn't it have taken at least three more issues to tell the whole story and wrap it up better?
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Postby JackKnight on Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:48 pm

Oh, and Dennis, I have almost the entire run of All Star Squadron and a whole bunch of Infinity Inc. I agree with you that Ordway does do a great job. I just thought his style kinda clashed with Gene Ha's when it came to Top 10. I enjoyed All Star Squadron more than I did Infinity Inc, although I was totally bummed when Solomon Grundy killed Sly Pemberton.

On an unrelated note, i was thrilled to see that storyline addressed in Geoff John's run on Starman when Jack wanted Ted Knight to shelter the new incarnation of Grundy. That was some good writing.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:03 pm

i'm out of the loop on the new Top 10, but i loved the first two tpbs. also that recentish Top 10 prequel that Moore wrote called The Forty Niners was aces.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:42 am

More Top 10? Wow, it's my lucky day. :P
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Postby Colin on Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:17 am

JackKnight wrote:
On an unrelated note, i was thrilled to see that storyline addressed in Geoff John's run on Starman when Jack wanted Ted Knight to shelter the new incarnation of Grundy. That was some good writing.


You're doing it again.
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Postby Al Shut on Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:05 am

JackKnight wrote:However instead of delving into anyone's background, it was just more of the same o same o. Peregrine is a devout Christian...Jackie Phantom is a lesbian...Smax is a dick...


That's not necessarily a bad thing. After reading the Smax mini-series I was worried that Smax would be less of a dick and happy all the time. That would have been terrible boring.
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Postby JackKnight on Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:08 pm

LOLOL Thanks Colin. That's some sort of mental tic, I swear. How funny that I just can't put down James Robinson. Guess I shouldn't have done all that LDS in the 60's. ;-)

As for there not being a big change to Smax I agree, but I felt like there was more character development in the first series. The issue where there is a transporter screwup and the dialogue with the people who were dying, as well as Peregrine's reaction to the whole thing was great. Plus the scenes with Joe Pi and (I think it was) Atoman at the end showed how deep Joe's character ran, contrary to what was commonly thought of 'clickers'.
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Postby DennisMM on Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:44 pm

Geoff Johns = talented comics writer who writes half the comics DC publishes.

James Robinson = fantastic comics writer who doesn't work in comics very often.

Your misidentification is especially disturbing given your username.

SPOILERS:

I agree that the story seemed crammed into the five issues. We got only a few pages of Joe Pi's undercover assignment, when this deserved a large part of an issue. The Girls 2-54 subplot could have filled an issue or more and deserved much more space.

Overall, the story lacked weight. Until #5, the Pilgrim manifestations were more an inconvenience than a danger, especially when compared to Moore's secondary stories. The teleport accident in Book 1 comes to mind.

Blaming the Pilgrim on Andy Soames's STORMS I found weak and inconsistent, especially Soames developing a robotic arm! This is not what we were told about STORMS in Moore's run. Why would robots take a "drug" that turned them into a half-organic, anyway? And how many times, in cop shows, have we seen the solid but offbeat commander replaced by a dick?

No one but Moore should touch Top 10.
Last edited by DennisMM on Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:11 pm

DennisMM wrote:
No one but Moore should touch Top 10.


I agree, sir!
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Postby JackKnight on Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:33 am

I agree with the final assessment too. Moore should be the only one writing that series.

As for Robinson/Johns faux pas, I can only eat crow so many times before I hurl it up.

So Dennis, YES I screwed it up...again...and probably will again at some point. So I will just stay out of these discussions so as to not offend anyone else. I love comics, been reading them forever, but I don't have every author/artist/inker/letterer etc memorized. If that means I'm not a true comics fan, well so be it.

I apologize to all for the snarkiness of my post. No good excuse, other than continued embarassment.
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Postby Colin on Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:28 am

It doesn't mean you're not a true comics fan, we just find the mistake is so glaring.
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Postby DennisMM on Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:05 pm

JackKnight wrote:I agree with the final assessment too. Moore should be the only one writing that series.

As for Robinson/Johns faux pas, I can only eat crow so many times before I hurl it up.

So Dennis, YES I screwed it up...again...and probably will again at some point. So I will just stay out of these discussions so as to not offend anyone else. I love comics, been reading them forever, but I don't have every author/artist/inker/letterer etc memorized. If that means I'm not a true comics fan, well so be it.

I apologize to all for the snarkiness of my post. No good excuse, other than continued embarassment.


J.K., I don't mean to imply your mistake has made you look stupid or even ignorant. I just find it odd considering it has to do with a series you enjoy so much and from whose hero you took your username.

Any of the beta testers can tell you that I make plenty of mistakes. I tend to fall back on the bipolar and associated medications as a cop-out. They do cause problems at times, though.

I'll shut up about it from here. Please stay and discuss.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:11 pm

Don't worry, JK. I tend to make some real bonehead mistakes about things that can't hold my interest. I just can't be fucked to look it up. But if something does hold my interest I can suddenly become motherfucking HAL. I think most people are that way, really. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Just human nature.
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Postby Colin on Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:59 pm

DON'T ENCOURAGE HIM! GOD...
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