CIVIL WAR--NEW MASSIVE SPOILERS- BEWARE!!!!!!

[King Psyz]

I almost forgot about that, yeah Hulk is gonna tear some shit up, reed richards, tony stark, and SHEILD are at the top of that list too.

[Petri]

I haven't read a comic book in probably 10 years but all this talk made me drive to my local comic store and buy both Civil War issues as well as Civil War: Frontline.

[Pudie]

You should pick up the last few Amazing Spider Mans as well. Pretty good. Deals with his struggle over what he does in CW #2.

[buster00]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna suck it up and go back for some of the crossover issues, like those Spider-books of which you speak. And the ThunderBolts tie-in issue; I'm definitely interested to see how the Bad Guys come into play now.

[Petri]

I did discover that comic stores, as well as those that hang out in them, have not changed at all over the past 10 years

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

WHAT THE FUCK IS All this 'Civil War, whose side are you on' bollox all about!!!??

I hope you ALL kill each other and die.

[ONeillSG1]

WHAT THE FUCK IS All this 'Civil War, whose side are you on' bollox all about!!!??

I hope you ALL kill each other and die.

Sad little man with his sad little hobbies.

[DennisMM]

Actually, I'm on the miners' side.


Come all you good workers,
Good news to you I'll tell
Of how the good old union
Has come in here to dwell.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

My dady was a miner,
And I'm a miner's son,
And I'll stick with the union
'Til every battle's won.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there.
You'll either be a union man
Or a thug for J. H. Blair.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can?
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

Don't scab for the bosses,
Don't listen to their lies.
Us poor folks haven't got a chance
Unless we organize.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

- Florence Reece, 1932

Anyone else familiar with Harlan County, Kentucky?

[Vegeta]

WHAT THE FUCK IS All this 'Civil War, whose side are you on' bollox all about!!!??

I hope you ALL kill each other and die.

Shock of shocks

Cpt Kirks 2pay takes the douche route

[Pudie]

So I got a Civil War torrent that has a bunch of comics that are supposed to tie into it...including F4 : The Hammer Falls. ANd Im a little lost. Whats the deal with Thor and how and when was Doom sent to hell?

[cap]

WHAT THE FUCK IS All this 'Civil War, whose side are you on' bollox all about!!!??

I hope you ALL kill each other and die.

Shock of shocks

Cpt Kirks 2pay takes the douche route

I am shocked, shocked I say!!!

[Theta]

So I got a Civil War torrent that has a bunch of comics that are supposed to tie into it...including F4 : The Hammer Falls. ANd Im a little lost. Whats the deal with Thor and how and when was Doom sent to hell?

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia exists, I'm convinced, solely to catch people up on comic book plotlines (i.e. I have no idea what the fuck is going on either.)

[Leckomaniac]

So I got a Civil War torrent that has a bunch of comics that are supposed to tie into it...including F4 : The Hammer Falls. ANd Im a little lost. Whats the deal with Thor and how and when was Doom sent to hell?

Here is the answer for you straight from Wikipedia:

In 2003, Doom realized he was unnecessarily limiting himself by focusing on technology, and only occasionally his magical birthright. He sold his childhood sweetheart's soul to a trio of demons in exchange for unlimited magical ability and new leather armour made of her skin. As a direct result of this storyline, Doom was confined to Hell, but later recovered by Reed, who intended to trap him in a small Moebius strip dimension forever. To effect his escape, Doom's consciousness possessed Ben Grimm, forcing Richards to kill them both. Ben Grimm was later brought back from the dead, while Doom's consciousness returned to his imprisoned body.

Hope that explains it a bit (I know it is kind of vague). Curiously, I forgot about THIS little bit of continuity:

When the deceased Thor's hammer, Mjolnir fell to Earth, it passed through time and space, momentarily breaching the gateway to Hell itself, providing Doom a way to escape. This is, however, a mistake, as Doom was not in Hell when last seen. Regardless of this mistake, however, upon his return to Earth, Doom regained control of Latveria, and used its forces to locate the crash-landing site of Mjolnir and attempt to seize its power for himself.

Does Marvel ever check continuity anymore?

[Adam Balm]

So I got a Civil War torrent that has a bunch of comics that are supposed to tie into it...including F4 : The Hammer Falls. ANd Im a little lost. Whats the deal with Thor and how and when was Doom sent to hell?

I'm not singling you out Pudie, just want to make sure everyone knows..

When posting, please don't include pornographic images or have discussions and links to warez/torrents or other possible copyright infringing content. Hate speak is not welcome and subject to a moderators interpretation.

This is a community of respectful friends.

http://zone.aintitcool.com/viewtopic.php?t=1363

[ONeillSG1]

So I got a Civil War torrent that has a bunch of comics that are supposed to tie into it...including F4 : The Hammer Falls. ANd Im a little lost. Whats the deal with Thor and how and when was Doom sent to hell?

I'm not singling you out Pudie, just want to make sure everyone knows..

When posting, please don't include pornographic images or have discussions and links to warez/torrents or other possible copyright infringing content. Hate speak is not welcome and subject to a moderators interpretation.

This is a community of respectful friends.

http://zone.aintitcool.com/viewtopic.php?t=1363

Maybe, a mod-induced edit is in order?

[Adam Balm]

Why did I put in bold 'have discussions and links to warez/torrents or other possible copyright infringing content'??

Talk about sending mixed messages..

[Leckomaniac]

Why did I put in bold 'have discussions and links to warez/torrents or other possible copyright infringing content'??

Talk about sending mixed messages..

The funny thing is...if you would have left it alone then the conversation would have died. But now we have had 5 posts that have continued to post quotes pertaining to those pesky torrents.

So has anyone seen the numbers that CIVIL WAR is pulling in? Newsarama has an article saying that Civil War #1 has sold like 260,000 copies and they are well on their way to selling 300,000. As of right now it is the second best selling comic of the new century...coming in just under All Star Batman and Robin #1.

Things are looking good for Marvel.

[Adam Balm]

Why did I put in bold 'have discussions and links to warez/torrents or other possible copyright infringing content'??

Talk about sending mixed messages..

The funny thing is...if you would have left it alone then the conversation would have died. But now we have had 5 posts that have continued to post quotes pertaining to those pesky torrents.

You make a good point.

[Leckomaniac]

Has anyone else noticed that we are only two issues into CIVIL WAR and already this thread has way more posts than the INFINITE CRISIS thread?

I am not sure how much of an indicator this is, but Marvel seems intent to constantly mention how CIVIL WAR is bringing in new comic book readers and what not. The size of this thread might serve as proof. Or maybe INFINITE CRISIS lacked a catchy tagline like "Whose side are you on".

[Petri]

It worked for me. I haven't read a comic book in 10 years

[wheredidigo111]

Has anyone else noticed that we are only two issues into CIVIL WAR and already this thread has way more posts than the INFINITE CRISIS thread?

I am not sure how much of an indicator this is, but Marvel seems intent to constantly mention how CIVIL WAR is bringing in new comic book readers and what not. The size of this thread might serve as proof. Or maybe INFINITE CRISIS lacked a catchy tagline like "Whose side are you on".

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death. Thanks Marvel, not go to hell. Oh and The Punisher will be joining the CIVIL WAR soon. You do know what that means it's Bloodshed time. And be for I forget the supervillains will now be working for the government. let's see put some targets on their backs and you know what The Punisher will call that. Target Practice!!!

[Keepcoolbutcare]

I swear, everytime he posts an angel has an abortion.

[TonyWilson]

Where are you from, wheredidigo?

[Adam Balm]

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death.

On the first orders, Civil War #1 beat Infinite Crisis #1 by just around a thousand copies, but no one will know the real winner until all the re-orders are in and counted, which will take months.

EDIT:

My mistake, I had underestimated how much more Civil War beat Infinite Crisis by, by a factor of ten. The actual numbers are:

Civil War #1 at 260,804
Infinite Crisis #1 at 249,265

Civil War beat IC by ten thousand copies in initial orders. Re-orders now, will be an entirely different story and as I said, we won't know those numbers until the mini completes its run. (Marvel is trying to keep enough over-printings to keep #1 in stock until #7 comes out, so retailers will be re-stocking it until that point.)


http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/8857.html
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/7814.html

[MasterWhedon]

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death.

Did you get those figures from the same place you got these?

[Vegeta]

All I have to say about Civil War #2 is damn if things aren't escallating quickly. Both sides are acting far beyond radically. It's probably because I am not following any of the side stories (except frontline), but Holy Shit are things going South fast.

[cap]

All I have to say about Civil War #2 is damn if things aren't escallating quickly. Both sides are acting far beyond radically. It's probably because I am not following any of the side stories (except frontline), but Holy Shit are things going South fast.

Agreed entirely. I wish I knew some of the advance story better, some of that may have been explained.

[Leckomaniac]

H as anyone else noticed that we are only two issues into CIVIL WAR and already this thread has way more posts than the INFINITE CRISIS thread?

I am not sure how much of an indicator this is, but Marvel seems intent to constantly mention how CIVIL WAR is bringing in new comic book readers and what not. The size of this thread might serve as proof. Or maybe INFINITE CRISIS lacked a catchy tagline like "Whose side are you on".

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death. Thanks Marvel, not go to hell.

Ok I know that AB already set the record straight...but if you look in my previous post...it clearly states that CIVIL WAR #1 is the second best selling book of the new century...just behind All Star Batman & Robin. Does this guy even READ threads before he posts?

I agree that things are happening rather fast...but I don't think it is a problem. People complained about how SLOW things moved in House of M and I think CIVIL WAR is kind of a response to that.

[Petri]

All I have to say about Civil War #2 is damn if things aren't escallating quickly. Both sides are acting far beyond radically. It's probably because I am not following any of the side stories (except frontline), but Holy Shit are things going South fast.

Agreed entirely. I wish I knew some of the advance story better, some of that may have been explained.

Agreed and agreed. I'm also only following frontline. I need to find the spinoffs in the regular series.

[wheredidigo111]

H as anyone else noticed that we are only two issues into CIVIL WAR and already this thread has way more posts than the INFINITE CRISIS thread?

I am not sure how much of an indicator this is, but Marvel seems intent to constantly mention how CIVIL WAR is bringing in new comic book readers and what not. The size of this thread might serve as proof. Or maybe INFINITE CRISIS lacked a catchy tagline like "Whose side are you on".

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death. Thanks Marvel, not go to hell.

Ok I know that AB already set the record straight...but if you look in my previous post...it clearly states that CIVIL WAR #1 is the second best selling book of the new century...just behind All Star Batman & Robin. Does this guy even READ threads before he posts?

I agree that things are happening rather fast...but I don't think it is a problem. People complained about how SLOW things moved in House of M and I think CIVIL WAR is kind of a response to that.

Well maybe your right. But beyond that I can care less. Maybe it was Decimation. does anyone remember Decimation? Oh, it died a slow death. Not even X-Men: Deadly Genesis could save it.

[Vegeta]

H as anyone else noticed that we are only two issues into CIVIL WAR and already this thread has way more posts than the INFINITE CRISIS thread?

I am not sure how much of an indicator this is, but Marvel seems intent to constantly mention how CIVIL WAR is bringing in new comic book readers and what not. The size of this thread might serve as proof. Or maybe INFINITE CRISIS lacked a catchy tagline like "Whose side are you on".

Look all I know is that INFINITE CRISIS sold more and Spiderman showed off his secret ID and now the Spiderman comics are going to suffer a slow a painful death. Thanks Marvel, not go to hell.

Ok I know that AB already set the record straight...but if you look in my previous post...it clearly states that CIVIL WAR #1 is the second best selling book of the new century...just behind All Star Batman & Robin. Does this guy even READ threads before he posts?

I agree that things are happening rather fast...but I don't think it is a problem. People complained about how SLOW things moved in House of M and I think CIVIL WAR is kind of a response to that.

Well maybe your right. But beyond that I can care less. Maybe it was Decimation. does anyone remember Decimation? Oh, it died a slow death. Not even X-Men: Deadly Genesis could save it.

Wow, you are jaded. Is there anything you do like?

[MasterWhedon]

Well maybe your right. But beyond that I can care less. Maybe it was Decimation. does anyone remember Decimation? Oh, it died a slow death. Not even X-Men: Deadly Genesis could save it.

I don't understand why you make statements like this when you clearly have not done the research. How many X-books were cancelled due to poor sales during Decimation? How many X-books had poor sales during Decimation?

Take a look at the April and May sales figures and show me what in there indicates that any of Marvel's X-line is "[dying] a slow death."

[Leckomaniac]

For a second there, I thought I was reading a TalkBack because only in the TBs do people post obviously fallacious statements without any attempt to back them up.

[Adam Balm]

I corrected my post with the exact numbers. In initial orders, CW #1 in fact outsold IC #1 by almost 11,000 copies, not 1,000.

[DennisMM]

Let's see -- why is CW outselling IC? Because Marvel fans are known for following cross-overs more, and have been for thirty years? Because the X-events and X-film have heated up interest in the Marvel characters among relatively new or more casual readers? Because Marvel's overall sales, while lower than they had been, continue to be higher than DC's?

YES.

I read more DC books than Marvels and tend to prefer DC's characters. But Marvel has a greater share of the market. Facts are facts.

[Adam Balm]

To me, by all accounts DC should've had this in the bag. Infinite Crisis had been built up to in mega-crossovers left and right (Identity Crisis, R-T W, Villains United, Day of Vengeance, Countdown..it goes on.). Whereas there was barely any build up for Civil War besides the odd mention of some maneuvering by SHIELD and some footnotes here and there about some hero registration act. Whereas DC was billing this as a once-in-a-generation event, there wasn't any indication early on that Civil War wasn't just yet another Avengers Disassembled/House of M convention season stunt.

The interesting thing about those numbers to me is that these orders were placed several months ago, before the hype, before the little viral sig pics, before the interviews on NPR and national newspapers and before anyone knew about the unmasking.

All that has happened since, which means that I can only guess at how high these numbers will climb once the re-orders and orders for the next issues come in.

[Keepcoolbutcare]

since when has Reed Richards become a fucktard?

"Tony's big plan for the Superhuman community is the most exciting thing we've ever worked on Sue...."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Hyperbole much Reed?

but wait...

"It's the exponential curve the number of superbeings is following and the Apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control..."

I'm no scientist, but I call shenanigans. There are too many variables for one to even begin to make a statement this bold, coupled with the unknowable outcome as to what eventually may occur if everyone gets licensed. Dumb-dee-FUCKING STUPID! I loathed the "big reveal", but this was even worse.

Great escape tho'. Cinematic, yet so much more. Aces.

[ONeillSG1]

"It's the exponential curve the number of superbeings is following and the Apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control..."

There is so much going on in that one statement that even the Watcher is shaking his head in disbelief.

[Adam Balm]

since when has Reed Richards become a fucktard?

"Tony's big plan for the Superhuman community is the most exciting thing we've ever worked on Sue...."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Hyperbole much Reed?

but wait...

"It's the exponential curve the number of superbeings is following and the Apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control..."

I'm no scientist, but I call shenanigans. There are too many variables for one to even begin to make a statement this bold, coupled with the unknowable outcome as to what eventually may occur if everyone gets licensed. Dumb-dee-FUCKING STUPID! I loathed the "big reveal", but this was even worse.

Great escape tho'. Cinematic, yet so much more. Aces.

I think what he was talking about was the rate at which superhumans were increasing (One of the editors mentioned something about there being only a few dozen when the Age of Marvels began, and now there's like 5,000 not counting mutants.) but yeah, it wasn't the best scene in the issue. That didn't piss me off as much as Reed being all doe-eyed and giddy in the wake of such tragedy, not to mention the fact that his brother in law is IN-A-FUCKING-COMA right now almost beaten to death by an angry mob. This is a guy who was always feeling guilty and beating himself up over the consequences of his work. (I.e, the space launch that transformed Ben into the monster he is.) So that felt totally out of character.

Right about now he'd be going crazy, knowing what was going to happen either way, blaming himself for what happened to Johnny and not anticipating this all earlier, holding himself responsible for everything. And then Robin Williams would come out from off screen and be all 'Hey...it's not your fault.' And then Reed would be all 'Yeah, I know.' And Robin Williams would close in and say 'No really, it's not your fault.' And then Reed would say even louder 'Yeah, I KNOW.' And then Robin would say it again and Reed would start crying, and they'd hug. And then Reed and Ben Affleck would win an oscar for writing it.

[Keepcoolbutcare]

I think what he was talking about was the rate at which superhumans were increasing (One of the editors mentioned something about there being only a few dozen when the Age of Marvels began, and now there's like 5,000 not counting mutants.) but yeah, it wasn't the best scene in the issue.

what kills me is that, sure, more of them certainly means a greater chance for an "Apocalypse", but how does licensing them do anything to prevent some lone jackass going schizo and destroying a metropolis? It was just terrible writing by Millar, and from someone whom I respect so, it just killed me.

That didn't piss me off as much as Reed being all doe-eyed and giddy in the wake of such tragedy, not to mention the fact that his brother in law is IN-A-FUCKING-COMA right now almost beaten to death by an angry mob. This is a guy who was always feeling guilty and beating himself up over the consequences of his work. (I.e, the space launch that transformed Ben into the monster he is.) So that felt totally out of character.

shit, that was good. I know your a big FF fan, but that didn't even cross my mind. Well done.

[Adam Balm]

Yeah, Reed's been defined by two traits: his brilliance, and his guilt. In Earth X, after apparently mutating the entire earth's population to give them superpowers, Reed comes to the logical conclusion that so many have been hurt by his work over his lifetime, that he can't be considered a hero. Logically, if you look at the results, he decides that he can only be considered a super-villain. So he takes over Doctor Doom's mantle and imprisons himself in Doom's castle, viewing himself as a villain seeking redemption for the crimes he's committed against the world.

So like I said, totally out of character. Obviously they put that in there to foreshadow the FF splitting down the middle. Susan is all 'Well, I'm going to go visit Johnny who's in a coma because he was lynched and almost killed by an angry mob.' Reed: 'Yeah, whatever honey. Don't bug me. Daddy's doing something important now....' So Susan is gradually going to side against Reed. But there were ways of doing that without rewriting Reed to be a total fucking Struggling Background Artist.

[Leckomaniac]

Adam, I always enjoy your insights into the FF. I don't think I have ever met someone with such a firm understanding of those characters.

[King Psyz]

shit, I haven't read funny books seriously for 10 years and know that doesn't sound like Reed Richards talking to me. Did they decide they did such a bang up fuckin aces job with the FF movie that they'd just ride with it and pretend that Reed has always been a stupid bitch with a bad gray dye job on his temples?

[Iconoclastica]

so I've been avoiding this thread for quite a while to avoid spoilers . . . just read Amazing Spider-Man 533, not twenty minutes after reading Civil War 1,2, and Frontline 1, all for the first time (couldn't get my subscription and to my comic book store until a couple of days ago)

spoiler heavy -

shit, man . . . yeah, some of it was predictable, but I still can't get over it . . . the political undertones, how much shit is going down . . . Jonah actually being heartbroken by Peter, the son he never had (heh, so the man does have a heart) . . . Flash Thompson!! (priceless, classic reaction ) . . . and what's going to happen with the super-villains? Is cap recruiting them to help him, or to keep them entirely under lock and key so that there is only one battlefront rather than two or three? I can't imagine how Spider-man could actually side with Tony on this . . . after everything . . . he's always been my one of my favorites, it's breaking my heart (though that last bit of standing up to Tony gives me hope that he may yet fight this after all) . . . regardless, the fact that he's out . . . daaaamn.

[Theta]

Okay, here's what pisses me off: the Speedball arc.

Not that I actually give a fuck about Speedball, although I love how he keeps surviving Joe Quesada's attempts to kill him.

It's the politics of the thing, the way it's designed.

First of all, Speedball as a criminal is fine. Even railroading him is fine storytelling. But for the love of Christ, do your goddamn research about how the government railroads one of its own citizens (and it DOES happen.) It's a lot different from how you railroad a foreign national, even with the Patriot Act on the books.

Basically, it just wouldn't happen as written. Speedball is dead right; he was arrested for criminal negligence and they would have to charge him, book him, and give him his Miranda rights.

And, in fact, there is no reason why they would not do so. Politicians are greedy for publicity and this is solid gold. It would appease the public, it would allow a public forum for the registration act to be 'debated' (i.e. make it look like there's a consensus), and furthermore it would offer a great 'argument' when they tossed him into a oubliette for life. They get what they want and get to seem above reproach.

Also, it makes Speed a sympathetic character without the appearance of shamelessly stacking the deck; the poor bastard's trial wouldn't even be about him. This is far from the first time such a thing has happened in America.


As it is, apparently somebody felt the need to get all uppity about Gitmo, and this, frankly, isn't the place or the character. Cap is the best way to argue this, but chickens that they are, they won't go THAT route.

[Iconoclastica]

I agree with you, Theta, about the politics . . . this is way too blatant of a criticism of the current state of things, outwardly pointing fingers at it as though we live in a dictatorship already. But, I think that was their intention. Obviously the writers are trying to impress that Orwellian point that if you forfeit some of your civil liberties, even for the protection of the people, you soon lose control over which ones you're forfeiting, and potentially may lose all of them if you're not careful. It's dangerous to put that sort of power in the government's hands, because, as Spidey always says, with great power comes great responsibiltiy . . . and I think we all know how "morally responsible" politicians are notorious for being

Regardless, this does parallel the McCarthy hearings quite well . . . as far as I remember learning, people often weren't afforded such luxuries as being read their rights and the right to a fair trial . . . though I suppose the politicians did attempt to put a bit more of a horse and pony show on than these are here . . . but who knows, we've yet to see the proceedings reach their full course.

[Adam Balm]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you on this one.

1) A public trial would be the perfect core for a book like this, a perfect forum for the ongoing debate.

2) It feels too much like they want you to side with the resistance, with stuff like this.

[Theta]

PRECISELY. McCarthy got away with it for as long as he did because everything was public and, therefore, seemingly aboveboard.

And that is generally how a citizen gets railroaded; either his case is too small for anyone to notice or the issues surrounding his case are so big his fate gets lost in the shuffle. Misdirection is how cases like this function (although I'm going to smack anybody who brings Mumia or Pelletier into this, you've been warned.)

[Roybertito]

I read the ASM tie-ins and still can't believe that he gave away his ID.

I have yet to read CW 2, but I'm picking it up next week.

However, I may switch to Iron Man's side pretty soon... possibly after I read CW 2. Mainly because SM is now officially on Iron Man's side and I hate Captain America. The douche baggery is mindblowing in that character. He's almost as big of a douche bag as every member of the Fantastic Four... no, wait, he's as much of a douche bag as them, not as much of a douche bag as wheredidigo111.

Basically, I follow Spiderman.... best comic hero IMO.

[Theta]

I can't wait for the inevitable, when Spidey switches sides. You're gonna get whiplash.