CIVIL WAR--NEW MASSIVE SPOILERS- BEWARE!!!!!!

Graphic novels. Weekly rags. The @$$holes.

Whose side are you on?

Iron Man
13
14%
Captain America
64
69%
undecided
16
17%
 
Total votes : 93

Postby The Ginger Man on Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:17 pm

DennisMM wrote:It's all crap, it won't last any longer than Secret Wars did and it's destroying the characters and their relatonships to one another. McNiven's art is nice.

DAMAGE CONTROL? Their book was light-hearted.


I like Dennis :D
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Postby DennisMM on Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:19 pm

Frontline is a much better book. If they had any guts, Frontline would be the book that tells the story and Civil War would fill in the holes with mindless action.

Thank you, Ginger Man.
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Postby unikrunk on Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:34 pm

DennisMM wrote:Frontline is a much better book. If they had any guts, Frontline would be the book that tells the story and Civil War would fill in the holes with mindless action.

Thank you, Ginger Man.


I will second that; frontline has been far more interesting so far.
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Postby JackKnight on Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:43 pm

I third that. Frontlines has been excellent so far. I am really enjoying the Speedball feature. Now that it looks like his powers are coming back I am wondering if he'll get transferred to the Raft or somewhere like that.
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Postby athenabodicea on Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:58 pm

Thirded or fouthed or fifthed on the Frontline thing... They make for the most interesting reading imo...

I am so far behind on the series that I (hate to say it) am kind of glad everything got pushed back...
I really am enjoying this though....

Exceot for all the money I have been spending in the comic store of course... lol
I think I will go to the park & do some catching up on my comics tomorrow...
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Postby wonkabar on Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:08 pm

CW #4 was kinda underwhelming IMO. I'm too behind on alot of it to catch up. I'm almost wondering if it might be better to just wait for all this Civil-War stuff to end up in graphic-novel format. I'm not much of a collector anymore, and I like being able to just slam through one long, continuous story without interuption (kinda like watching a whole season on DVD over a couple nights). Comics are just too short and too expensive and there's so much stuff I wanna buy and my local shop is pretty weak (those damn Virgin-Comics are still a bitch)

EDIT:

Well, now I'm all caught up on Fronline anyway.
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Postby buster00 on Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Amazing Spider-Man #535



'Bout time Spidey figured out what "Iron Cheney" is all about...
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Postby JackKnight on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:19 pm

You had to see that coming. Now when does Stark activate the self-destruct or override commands on the "Iron Spidey" suit?
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:50 pm

I'm now convinced of two things about Civil War.

1) Civil War hasn't just jumped the shark. It's hooked it, skinned it, and turned it into a trampoline, allowing children to jump it continually day in and day out.

2) Civil War is the defining Marvel Comic of this age.

Seriously, CW spits on decades of established character and continuity, something Marvel has been considered guilty of for quite some time. And all in the name of telling a massive, engaging story that is sooooo out of left field, it will never be forgotten and will be held up as an object of comparision for years to come.

I promise, 10 yrs from now, we'll still have articles and flashbacks to the time Tony Stark and Reed Richards imprisoned 80% of the super community in the Negative Zone in a misguided bid to create a better world. Let's just pray to god they don't ret-con it.

(And for the record, I'm not the biggest fan of CW. However, I'm a big fan of a Marvel displaying a ginormous set of balls)
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Postby JackKnight on Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:14 pm

This should have been a "what if" story. Then they really could have gone to town with it and told it in as many issues with as much violence/gore etc as they wanted.

But to make it the mainline 616 world was a stupid mistake.

Tony Stark creating a super-gulag in the neg zone. Hmmm...shades of Kingdom Come. Now we just need the big breakout and Reed Richards gets killed by the inmates before the gov't nukes the facility....nah, never happen.
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Postby cap on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:42 pm

I haven't followed all the side stories with this, just the main CW titles. I am trying to figure out where this all goes. The story in disjointed because of all the cross overs and what not. So things are happening out of order and is some cases twice (CW4 and FL6).

I am curious as to where this goes. The seem to be indicating something with Atlantis, but why yet I am not sure, plus Shield is shady at best in this whole thing.

I just hope is doesn't end dumb, that would be incredibly dissapointing.
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Postby Ribbons on Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:54 am

A scathing review of/manifesto against Civil War #4 over on the main page:

Prof. Challenger wrote:If I were not reviewing comics for AICN, I would not have read this comic.

I thought that needed to be said because it bears on the fact that, like it or not, where Marvel and DC go, so goes the comic book field. And when these two do big "events," it really is the responsibility of a serious reviewing team to go ahead and at least look at it. I mean, I am sure that most movie reviewers went and saw PEARL HARBOR even though they would have preferred to just avoid it. But they "had" to.

Now, after the distasteful experience of DC's INFINITE CRISIS, I personally chose to just completely avoid Marvel's CIVIL WAR. My interest in the more current Marvel Universe is so tepid compared to the days when I literally bought anything with Marvel on the cover. I have not, however, been able to avoid the events that have made up CW, because they have been headline-grabbers like Spider-Man revealing his identity publicly. But up till now, the most I've done is skim through the issues on the stands to get a feel for how the "events" have been executed. My take on it up to this point has been that the book "looks" good and the writing seems competent.

Press releases from the days prior to last Wednesday built up CW#4 as an "event" so important that it must not be missed. In the wake of Spidey's revelation, I decided then that I would go ahead and pick up this issue and see what the big hoo-ha is all about. Technically, the comic feels like it was produced by automatons. The writing is technically competent, except that every character speaks with the same "voice." There is nothing to distinguish whether it's Sue Richards, Tony Stark, or Peter Parker other than typeface or word balloon placement. The art is solid, but completely devoid of any emotion other than anger. It seems like everyone is angry at all times which is just depressing to look at. The only good thing I can say is that it appears that Dagger doesn't wear panties and the paper stock is nice.

I'm not angry though, like a bunch of my fellow reviewers, but I am disturbed on many levels. Before I address the specifics, let me give an overall impression I've got. INFINITE CRISIS pissed me off not so much because of the things that happened in the story. I'm more willing than many longtime fans to buy into changes and events so long as they happen logically within the story and in character. The thing that pissed me off with IC was that it smacked of massive editorial and production incompetence. Within IC, I could see writers and artists striving to do something better than what the final product turned out to be. My problems with CW are much deeper than my problems with IC because it is a highly competent product, but insidious and deplorable in its goals.

I picture the Three Stooges running around the DC offices as editors constantly imposing themselves into the production of IC and turning it into a laughable 3-ring circus of nonsense by the end. But at Marvel, I picture a cabal of enormously overweight pompous politicians circa 1920 sitting in a cigar smoke-filled, darkened room wearing their neckties so tight that their necks look like muffin tops, all the while plotting and planning and chuckling to themselves about how much smarter and better they are than the sheep that voted them into office.

And the stench of those cheap cigars permeates every page of this turdpile of a comic "event."

CIVIL WAR just literally smacks of the arrogance of short-term thinking and nihilism. There was a time when Marvel comic books were about characters. Plots were simply tools to tell stories about characters. Now, characters are simply tools to serve the plot, or rather, "event." One way you can tell is that the life-changing events for these characters now occur in "give-us-money" books like CW rather than the characters' respective eponymous titles. After 40 years, the most status quo changing event in Spider-Man's development as a character - a decision that changes everything, contradicts everything he's ever said and done before, and affects everyone who has ever known him - happened in CW with the Spidey titles stuck having to deal with the fallout. Another way you can tell is that the manner in which characters, I mean "cannon fodder," are slaughtered is so detached and calculated that it really just disgusts me. Again, I can totally envision the "meeting" between the editors and the writer where they start throwing character names around, maybe putting them up on a board on note cards, and then deciding whether to kill them or not (the New Warriors in CW#1 for example.) No thought given to any rational reason why the character should die or whether there are any other moral considerations as to their responsibilities as the "gods" in charge of these fictional lives or the readers out there who invest emotion and concern for these characters. You know--those readers who keep voting the incumbents into office--I mean buying these insultingly jaded and disgusting comic books produced by this current editorial team? In fact, if any thought was given at all, it was probably a self-indulgent snigger back and forth over how the fanboys are gonna "love/hate" it.

Now, in CW#4 we have 3 major "events," one which fills the bill for the "life-changing" event; one which fills the bill for the pointless death; and one which is just indicative of the overly calculated manner in which this series has been put together.

The pointless death is that of Bill Foster/Goliath. In the course of this comic, we watched what appeared for all intents and purposes to be an utterly cold, angry, and evil Thor just tearing into Captain America's team of anti-establishment heroes. Goliath, completely unarmed, advances toward Thor, a god with a powerful deadly weapon, who proceeds to blast a bloody hole through Goliath's chest. Most likely, Foster died instantly. There was no point to this other than to advance an idiotic plot thread the writer/editors wanted to advance. So, they picked another "lame" character and threw him in front of the bus. In spite of the cheesy dialogue/narration that CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS gets nailed on sometimes, at least when you had a character like, say, Ultra-Man get killed, Marv Wolfman took it upon himself to give the character a final chance to be heroic - thus making his death instantly poignant rather than pointless. Here, Goliath's last words are insipidly "Get ready for the shortest comeback in history, Thor." And next he's on the ground with smoke billowing from his chest.

So, what was the plot that Mark Millar so desperately wanted to advance with Goliath's death? The one on the third "plot" card on his computer-generated outline for this series: (3) Sue Richards, shocked by the death of lame character to named later decides to leave Reed and join Captain America's anti-establishment team of heroes.

For this event to have occurred, the suspension of [dis]belief that Millar and the editorial team required of me was just too high. They took the father figure of the entire Marvel Universe and turned him into a murderer. No way around it. The Thor here was not really Thor but a clone created by Reed and controlled by Reed. He recklessly sent Thor into this battle knowing full well what was likely to happen. It may not rise to the level of premeditated first-degree murder, but it certainly rises to the level of second-degree murder. Thor here was nothing more than a dangerous weapon and Reed acted recklessly and with wanton disregard for others when he sent Thor into this battle. Reed is a murderer. He also is playing God in the manner in which he cloned Thor in the first place and then subjecting him to mind-control manipulation. Basically, this plot required Millar to "advance" the character of Reed Richards to the point that he is morally indistinguishable from Dr. Doom. There's a difference between arrogance and hubris. Both Reed and Doom have now crossed that line and there's really no rational way for Marvel to undo this unless they pull a deus ex machina that puts Reed under some sort of mind-control or they use Franklin or Scarlet Witch to rewind continuity in some way--both of which are Bobby Ewing-style cop-outs that are likely to even further damage Marvel's credibility with the fans.

There is such a coldness and unemotional aspect to the storytelling here that it almost reads like a computer wrote it. After murdering a longtime friend, Reed has sex with his wife and relaxes for a good night's sleep. During his sleep, Sue gets up and leaves him and drops off a note explaining why. The next day, Reed is utterly distraught by the realization of what he has done and tells Tony Stark he's out of this because he has got to find Susan and make things right! Well…if a writer who actually wrote these characters properly were writing it, that would've been what happened. Instead, the next day Reed and Tony are discussing clinically the fact that the balance has tipped in Capt. America's favor after the death of Goliath. No regrets. No mention of Sue. Hell, no mention of the fact that he has to explain to his son and daughter that Mommy has left them. Nope. It's simply, robotic advance the plot time again as we lead up to the stupid, I mean "big," reveal at the end.

Which is the other "event" I mentioned. Reed and Tony have organized a brand-new iteration of The Thunderbolts made up of utterly insane psychopathic costumed villains like Bullseye, Venom, and Jack-O-Lantern. There they go again, pulling out their character note cards and grabbing out the villains that all the fanboys go orgasmic over and throw them into the mix here as a DIRTY DOZEN-style taskforce put together by Reed Richards and Tony Stark. Well, if the Dirty Dozen had been made up of people like John Wayne Gacy, Ed Gein, the Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, and serial killers like that. It's like Millar and company are just pouring more and more grease on their fire of character disintegration. But what is one to expect from a comic where Capt. America delivers a stupid line like "You really think I'm going down - to some pampered punk like you?" This whole schism between Iron Man and Cap is so utterly forced and irrational that I cannot for the life of me understand how something so profoundly wrong could see print like this. It demonstrates first that Millar has no knowledge at all of the fact that prior to the Super-Soldier experiment, Steve Rogers was one of those scrawny little picked-on kids who grew up in the Bronx in the 20s and 30s. He was not a scrappy little gang kid. He also is not the type of person who harbors the type of immature class bias that this comment bespeaks. Cap is Marvel's embodiment of all that is best in the American ideal, which means he rises above petty biases and prejudices. Well, except in the dystopic worldview of Mark Nietzsche, I mean Millar.

The stench of that cigar-filled war room has apparently filled the entire Marvel Universe with cardboard cutouts rather than characters. If they aren't raging hate-filled narcissists, they are unemotional, detached, and completely amoral sociopaths. This is not the sort of world that engenders any sort of long-term commitment by the readers/buyers of the product. If every character is imminently unlikable and unrelatable, the reader is pushed away. No emotional connection to the characters means no commitment and that will, over time, result in an increasingly diminished fan base. This is an "event" that I can't stomach because it is utterly insulting to the characters, to the history, and especially to the comic-buying public at large. It's Marvel's big spit-in-the-eye to everybody who's ever given a damn about these Marvel characters.
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Postby athenabodicea on Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:58 pm

I am outta work & off to the comic store....

See you all later ;)
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:06 pm

Ribbons wrote:A scathing review of/manifesto against Civil War #4 over on the main page:

Wait, you mean one of the @$$sholes didn't like a mainstream comic from Marvel?

Must be Wednesday! :roll:
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Postby Ribbons on Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:07 pm

LOLZORS!

Yeah, I know what you mean. Although I read Prof. Challenger's review and think it makes a lot of sense. I don't feel as strongly about certain issues as he does, but at the same time, I can see where he's coming from.

Hey, at least AXM got a postive review!

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Postby buster00 on Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:29 am

I can see where Prof is coming from, too, but I disagree with him.

Seems to me that damn near everything he's complaining about is the same stuff that's keeping me interested in the book.

I don't think the characterizations are indistinguishable from one another. I like that Tony, Reed, and company are going to such extremes. It makes me wonder if Prof is latching on to the real-life "pro war/anti war" allegory which Millar seems to be putting across.

On the other hand, I can see the DC and Marvel offices being run, respectively, as Prof describes them.
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Postby silentbobafett on Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:41 am

The things that they are setting up in this series will need bulls to continue!

THey'll either be pussied out and everything will be back to normal, within reason, or the fall out from this will go on and on for a good while!

Anyway, I've just finished issue 4 and I'm really digging it! I always though Thor was an asshole so glad he ain't in everyones good book!

I don't see Iron Man's side having much of an argument at the moment!

Spidey shoing his face is the biggest thing! Whats going to happen in his world now?

Love it though! How often do they come out? Once a month? I just got mine in one job lot so don't know for sure how often they come out
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:26 am

it's kinda fun to notice the dovetail between Civil War #4 and The Ultimates(Vol. 2) #12.

in one, Thor is a re-animated clone(Zombie Thor?) sociopath who blasts fools for the man.

the other, he's(finally?) proven to be all he said he was, Son of Odin, a pacifist with a big scary hammer, a Socialist who rages against the military industrial complex, "here he comes to hammerslap" his evil half brother.

in one, Cappy gets the shit slapped out of him by a pampered punk.

the other, he's a non-witty-remark havin' savior of the U.S.

in one, longstanding characters unexpectedly defy years (and years) of backstory and characterization, all for nonsensical ultraviolence to keep the masses entertained.

the other, a now long-running, stunning re-imagining of the original Averngers, is nothing but the good 'ol ultraviolence that feels earned due to all the attention paid to backstory and character development in previous installments.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:38 pm

MINOR SPOILER!!

VARIANT COVER FOR CIVIL WAR #5 HAS BEEN REVEALED!!

...and it hints at some really cool possibilities. Does this mean The Punisher could be the guy in the ski mask in #4? Is he part of the New Thunderbolts?
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Postby The Ginger Man on Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:20 pm

Hmmm..that's pretty sweet.
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Postby Vegeta on Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:48 pm

CW #5 is out today. Picking it up on the way home and wondering what trouble awaits young Peter Parker.... :twisted:
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:49 pm

Blast! I have an event to go to tonight that's gonna keep me out late. No Astonishing X-Men and no Civil War makes MasterWhedon a sad panda.

:(
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Postby silentbobafett on Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:51 am

Good issue but not the ebst.

SPOILERS

Other than spidey and punisher and the rogue FF's.... nothing much happening that I/we didn't know before

I think i acutally prefer Frontline at the moment! I wonder when the next issue of that is coming out? :-)
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:48 pm

Pretty solid issue overall, if a bit underwhelming. When the issue ended, I was expecting it to go on for six more pages or so. I'm sure it'll play nicely in trade, but I wanted a bit more as a monthly.

It's pretty clear at this point that the Pro-Registration side is being made to be the bad guy. I get the rationale, but it disappoints me a bit as Joe Q promised both sides would be represented equally. They've been given equal face time, sure, but the Pro-Regers are being portrayed as too villainous, IMO.

Anyway, the art sure was purdy. And I love how Millar cuts around in time and space, cuts into moments he could spend an entire book exploring. Like Daredevil's capture. He could've spent a dozen pages on the fight, but he gets right to what's most important: that he's captured. That's quality, disciplined writing.

The Spider-Man/Punisher stuff was nice, but I was a little disappointed to have been spoiled to the Punisher's involvement by Michael Turner's variant (not to mention wheredidigo111 calling it way back when--WTF?).

Overall though, nice issue.
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CIVIL WAR--Whose Side Are You On? (SPOILERS)

Postby bastard_robo on Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:18 pm

NOTE: Sorry, i hit new thread by mistake on my last post:


The issue started out a little weak, but towards the end, i was way back into it.

I liked the punisher stuff, but i really fucking loved the ending with daredevil essentually telling Tony to go fuck himself. Nicely done.

Cap also questiong wether or not to allow the punisher in their little band was cool too.


But this raises a question. I know why Punisher said he was getting in to this (With the new Thunderbolts getting involved on the pro side) put shouldnt he have just sat back and waited this thing out. He's not bound by the registration, hes just bound by the normal laws. I guess we'll have to wait and see where this gose.

Picked up New Avengers and Iron Man tie in too. New Avengers was probably the weakest of the dissasembled line. Havent read Iron man yet
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:29 pm

Mark Millar speaks a bit about Civil War #5 and some of the criticism he's taken over HERE.

They'll have the Civil War Room up later.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:14 pm

The Civil War Room for #5 is up HERE.
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Postby buster00 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

Yay Punisher!

Boo Tigra!
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:58 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Pretty solid issue overall, if a bit underwhelming. When the issue ended, I was expecting it to go on for six more pages or so. I'm sure it'll play nicely in trade, but I wanted a bit more as a monthly.

It's pretty clear at this point that the Pro-Registration side is being made to be the bad guy. I get the rationale, but it disappoints me a bit as Joe Q promised both sides would be represented equally. They've been given equal face time, sure, but the Pro-Regers are being portrayed as too villainous, IMO.



Thank God. I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. For some reason, reading CW #5, it reminded me a little about how I'd wince whenever Aaron Sorkin would try to write a Republican character sympathetically on the West Wing, because it would never ring true. It felt like pandering when he'd throw a bone to the other side and have a token 'good republican'. The West Wing was at its best when you rooted for Bartlet and the opposition were the bad guys, because that's clearly what Sorkin felt. It's interesting that Millar says that 'Oh, in the real world, we'd all be rooting for Iron Man's side', yet he can't for the life of him make them likeable in the slightest?

And I like how everyone in Iron Man's camp seems to wrestle with their conscience, ("My God, have you ever thought we might've picked the wrong side?") but you don't really see that from Cap's. Well, maybe you do a little, in that they don't want to kill other superheroes. But you really see this bias when you look at Spidey's little character arc, the way he first sides out of blind loyalty without really thinking, but finally he comes to his senses (er, spider-senses) and does what's right. In that way, they're telegraphing everything months in advance, and there's very few surprises. You knew Spider-Man would eventually turn, because his motivation was so weak to begin with. It didn't ring true. Or look at how JMS had Reed say 'McCarthy was right'. Do they honestly believe this is even handed?

Either tell a straight away "one side is good, one side is bad" or do like the Iliad where there are no good guys, just the tragedy of war. I kind of got that sense reading Kingdom Come. It's interesting that Alex Ross called that work the real Civil War. I don't see that here. I see half measures and compromises and too many cooks in the kitchen.
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Postby Vegeta on Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:50 am

I agree, it seems that Civil War is almost entirely one sided. Pro is 'bad/evil', con is 'good/valiant'! I was hoping for a true moral struggle when the book first began, but it is obvious that the writers skipped that and went for the easiest/lowest common demoninator. 'Tis a shame... I have little hope at this point that they'll bring the 'moral compass' back to any sort of 'middle ground'.

My apologies for the spelling... but it is late...
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Postby buster00 on Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:20 am

Well, chin up. They still have a few issues left. Maybe there'll be a pro-reg heavy issue yet.


Say, how many issues long is this series, anyway?
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Postby The Garbage Man on Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:28 am

Erm... the Civil War series proper is 7 issues, according to my list. I'm counting around 22 tie-in issues remaining, plus 6 "Casualties of War" post-CW issues.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:25 am

For someone not reading any of the tie-in issues, I felt that Civil War #5 was a pretty big jump from #4. Obviously, I knew this was going to happen due to foreshadowing and the Marvel Hype/Spoiler Machine. But it felt like I'd missed about 5 issues in between, which I basically had. I know that's how these mega-events are handled now-a-days...have to buy 6 different books for a year to get the whole story...but that's weak. It feels like this is the new version of "varient covers." I'm just rather dissapointed in the whole thing. Bleh, I say....bleh.

Oh! And it's nice to see you back, Adam!
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Postby doglips on Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:37 pm

The Ginger Man wrote:For someone not reading any of the tie-in issues, I felt that Civil War #5 was a pretty big jump from #4. Obviously, I knew this was going to happen due to foreshadowing and the Marvel Hype/Spoiler Machine. But it felt like I'd missed about 5 issues in between, which I basically had. I know that's how these mega-events are handled now-a-days...have to buy 6 different books for a year to get the whole story...but that's weak. It feels like this is the new version of "varient covers." I'm just rather dissapointed in the whole thing. Bleh, I say....bleh.


Yep, just read 3 through 5 in one go - ugh. This should have been 12 issues. For something so major this flagship book falls way under the mark, ( not sure what that mark is though? ) is Millar really up to this?


The Ginger Man wrote:Oh! And it's nice to see you back, Adam!


That new AV is genius.
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Re: CIVIL WAR--Whose Side Are You On? (SPOILERS)

Postby buster00 on Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:35 pm

bastard_robo wrote:
But this raises a question. I know why Punisher said he was getting in to this (With the new Thunderbolts getting involved on the pro side) put shouldnt he have just sat back and waited this thing out. He's not bound by the registration, hes just bound by the normal laws. I guess we'll have to wait and see where this gose.




Something that dawned on me after reading #5 again: What would The Jester and Jack O' Lantern have to do with registration, either? They didn't have any powers; they were just a couple o' dipshits with high-tech gadgets.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:50 pm

Just read teh Balm's stuff above, and I agree with it 100%.

The Ginger Man wrote:For someone not reading any of the tie-in issues, I felt that Civil War #5 was a pretty big jump from #4. Obviously, I knew this was going to happen due to foreshadowing and the Marvel Hype/Spoiler Machine. But it felt like I'd missed about 5 issues in between, which I basically had. I know that's how these mega-events are handled now-a-days...have to buy 6 different books for a year to get the whole story...but that's weak. It feels like this is the new version of "varient covers." I'm just rather dissapointed in the whole thing. Bleh, I say....bleh.

The only tie-ins I'm reading are New Avengers and Young Avengers/Runaways, but I feel you completely. For most of the series, I've liked the way Millar jumps around in time, how he will throw you into scenes and expect you to keep up, but #5 had jump a little too far ahead. Characters were discussing the negative zone prison and the fifty-state initiative like they'd already been introduced to us. And perhaps they would have been if we were reading every little seemingly-unimportant tie-in, but I'd have preferred they introduced the key elements to such a massive event DURING the massive event and not in some peripheral tale you very well might not read.

Anyway, McNiven's very purdy cover for issue #6 is up HERE.
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Postby Vegeta on Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:11 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Anyway, McNiven's very purdy cover for issue #6 is up HERE.


Jeez, I wonder which way the winds are blowing now?
They must be pulling a mega-suprise out teh ass to make the pro's look even remotely moral...
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:32 am

Reading FRONTLINE really helps! It is the only tie=in I'm reading and I love it... I'm sure I'll be picking up Casualties of War as well! :-)
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Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:12 pm

If you are on the West Coast...good luck getting a hold on Civil War #6. Apparently the shipments did not arrive at the Diamond warehouse on time due to weather...so the supply to the West Coast is extremely limited.

The full shipment will come to the West Coast next week so be especially careful about listing spoilers in this thread. We wouldn't want to ruin it for our West Coast friends.
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Postby Hollywood_Bob on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:01 pm

F*&$ing Denver snowstorms
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Jesus Christ, they haven't finished this yet?!?!

My god I am waiting for the entire bound volume so I can read the whole thing without monthly breaks.
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Postby buster00 on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:28 pm

ONeillSG1 wrote:Jesus Christ, they haven't finished this yet?!?!

My god I am waiting for the entire bound volume so I can read the whole thing without monthly breaks.


If only it were monthly breaks; then they would be finished and we'd all be happy.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:41 pm

ONeillSG1 wrote:Jesus Christ, they haven't finished this yet?!?!

My god I am waiting for the entire bound volume so I can read the whole thing without monthly breaks.


Me too - but I have a nasty feeling it is still over a whole year away from being printed as a whole piece. And even then I can't imagine they will include all the crossover titles I'm seeing.

Here's a question for the great ones - I'm guessing some of the crossovers are more relevant than others. When I do get around to collecting the Civil War story, whch ones would you say are essential purchases in terms of the main story?
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Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:45 pm

Civil War: Frontline, Amazing Spider-Man, Fantastic Four.

Those three are the major ones. Some of the issues of New Avengers were insightful but not required.
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:31 pm

buster00 wrote:
ONeillSG1 wrote:Jesus Christ, they haven't finished this yet?!?!

My god I am waiting for the entire bound volume so I can read the whole thing without monthly breaks.


If only it were monthly breaks; then they would be finished and we'd all be happy.


BI-MONTHLY?? THOSE BASTARDS!!!
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:30 pm

Count me as one of the unfortunate few on the West Coast who'll have to wait 'til next week to get their hands on #6. My comics shop at two copies of the Michael Turner variant for $15 each, but no way am I paying that much for it. Ugh.
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Postby Vegeta on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:44 pm

Picked mine up today! Midwest rules! :P
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:48 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Count me as one of the unfortunate few on the West Coast who'll have to wait 'til next week to get their hands on #6. My comics shop at two copies of the Michael Turner variant for $15 each, but no way am I paying that much for it. Ugh.


That is an extreme bummer MW. I just finished reading issue #6, but I will refrain from discussing any details until all the folks have had their chance to read.

PLEASE REMEMBER SPOILER WARNINGS FOLKS! BE COURTEOUS!
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Postby Vegeta on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:50 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:
MasterWhedon wrote:Count me as one of the unfortunate few on the West Coast who'll have to wait 'til next week to get their hands on #6. My comics shop at two copies of the Michael Turner variant for $15 each, but no way am I paying that much for it. Ugh.


That is an extreme bummer MW. I just finished reading issue #6, but I will refrain from discussing any details until all the folks have had their chance to read.

PLEASE REMEMBER SPOILER WARNINGS FOLKS! BE COURTEOUS!


No worries. :)
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CIVIL WAR--Whose Side Are You On? (SPOILERS)

Postby bastard_robo on Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:41 am

MasterWhedon wrote:Count me as one of the unfortunate few on the West Coast who'll have to wait 'til next week to get their hands on #6. My comics shop at two copies of the Michael Turner variant for $15 each, but no way am I paying that much for it. Ugh.


GOD BLESS SUBSCRIPTIONS!

I didnt make it into my shop untill sunday, and my store had only 1 copy left that they put into my box!!!!

GREAT BUILD UP!!!!!! I will not say more!
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