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Nextwave Review Thread

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:20 pm
by Adam Balm
I read Next Wave last night, and something occured to me. What the fuck happened to this man.

Okay, about two years ago, Immonen was one of the rising stars of comics. As photo-realism was just starting to reach its peak, he had a style that rivaled Bryan Hitch.

First Shock Rockets:

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then came his re-teaming with Kurt Busiek on Superman: Secret Identity:

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And then his Sebastian X from Humanoids:

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His work on Hulk continued this streak...

Then came Ultimate Fantastic Four. This is the 'behind the music' moment when it 'all would come crashing down...'

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which culminated in one of the singularly most unimpressive debut issues in recent memory. Next Wave #1:

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WTF??

Is it just me?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:25 pm
by Ribbons
Hey, if Picasso had never changed his painting style, would we have ever gotten the cubist... uhhh... cube-y musicians?

Also I'm pretty sure there are two Immonens out there. Maybe not though. Maybe that's what's going on here...?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:28 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
Who did a the tracing, i mean a the "inks," onna the more recent artwork, eh? Would a that not have a something to do with it?

Iffa it's a not a the inks, then I would a just a say he's a trying to settle onna the more stylized look a so's a he can a bang outta the work faster, no?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:29 pm
by Adam Balm
That was my guess as well.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:33 pm
by MadCapsule
Happens to the best of them, really. Just look at Walter Simonson. Or (some will hate me for this) Frank Miller. Remember The Dark Knight Strikes Again? I thought that looked like a toddler's crayon doodlings.

Please note that it's been a while since I've bought comics, so I might not be providing the most valid examples.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:35 pm
by burlivesleftnut
I like the art. It actually suits the clever and inventive story very well.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:40 pm
by Colin
Notice that Shock Rockets and Sebastian X were both creator-owned books which he had a vested interest in, and Superman: Secret Identity was a realistic approach to Superman, sorta a "What if" story. So perhaps that's why he pulled out all the stops?

His Marvel work is a lot more animated and spacious, also, seeing as they're 6-12 issue runs on each title, he had to drop some detail to make the deadlines. After his run on Nextwave he intends to go back to creator-owned work. I suspect his style will return to form as well.

But even so, I still like the work he's doing for Marvel. He's definitely still one of the top guns they have.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:41 pm
by Ribbons
Although I'm pretty sure he was on a Superman monthly for a while and he had the same realistic style. Perhaps it was too much pressure to get it done in time?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:43 pm
by MadCapsule
burlivesleftnut wrote:I like the art. It actually suits the clever and inventive story very well.


I dunno, I think he either needed Klaus Jansen's inks to clean things up a bit or Miller's current art style is better suited for b/w like Sin City.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:44 pm
by bc1970
Image

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:48 pm
by burlivesleftnut
MadCapsule wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:I like the art. It actually suits the clever and inventive story very well.


I dunno, I think he either needed Klaus Jansen's inks to clean things up a bit or Miller's current art style is better suited for b/w like Sin City.


I was actually talking about Nextwave. Dark Knight Strikes Again or whatever it was called was beyond salvation.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:48 pm
by Adam Balm
Ribbons wrote:Although I'm pretty sure he was on a Superman monthly for a while and he had the same realistic style. Perhaps it was too much pressure to get it done in time?


He was also on Hulk monthly doing fine with the realistic approach:

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It has nothing to do with whether it's creator owned or not. It's not that he can't meet the deadline without going all sloppy and cartoony. It's that he realized he can and people will swallow it anyway. And of course the check pays the same whether he's phoning it in or not.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:53 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
MadCapsule wrote:Just look at Walter Simonson.


Holy crappa I'd rather not, eh? He anna his a wife, they single-handedly destroy a the X-Factor for a the Dino inna the late 80s early 90s, no? Just a plain sloppy work...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:03 pm
by bc1970
That was a weird fluke.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:20 pm
by Colin
Adam Balm wrote:It has nothing to do with whether it's creator owned or not. It's not that he can't meet the deadline without going all sloppy and cartoony. It's that he realized he can and people will swallow it anyway. And of course the check pays the same whether he's phoning it in or not.


Why don't you write him a letter and ask? I'm sure he'd be happy to explain the evolution of his art to you.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:31 pm
by burlivesleftnut
I agree Balmy. Email him or something. I think every artist evolves somewhat. Look at John Byrne. He used to be the best there was, but now his draftsmanship looks sloppy and unfocused.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:32 pm
by MadCapsule
burlivesleftnut wrote:
MadCapsule wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:I like the art. It actually suits the clever and inventive story very well.


I dunno, I think he either needed Klaus Jansen's inks to clean things up a bit or Miller's current art style is better suited for b/w like Sin City.


I was actually talking about Nextwave. Dark Knight Strikes Again or whatever it was called was beyond salvation.


Gotcha.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:33 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Stuat Immonen wrote:Dear Adam "teh" Balm.

I've recently read thru all of your posts here in The Phantom Zone, and I find your early work, when you were posting for the love of it, to be far superior to your sloppy, hastily put together later work...what happened? And I notice you only bashed my Warren Ellis related work...coincidence? I think NOT!
Sincerely, your pal, Stuart Immonen.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
by DennisMM
Immomen's work on Nextwave didn't impress me, which is probably one reason why I didn't care for the first issue, the primary reason being what I thought was a fairly weak story. The whole "Fin Fang Foom wears underpants" bit was plain dumb. Yeah, he does. He's from the '50s. You couldn't expose or even suggest dragon genitalia then.

I think it's the partly the inking, partly that Immomen's pencils may have by artistic choice been looser to fit the goofy feel of the book. News pages don't list an inker, so I think we can say it's also Immomen, unless the comic itself says different and I can't remember.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:49 pm
by Adam Balm
keepcoolbutcare wrote:
Stuart Immonen wrote:Dear Adam "teh" Balm.

I've recently read thru all of your posts here in The Phantom Zone, and I find your early work, when you were posting for the love of it, to be far superior to your sloppy, hastily put together later work...what happened? And I notice you only bashed my Warren Ellis related work...coincidence? I think NOT!
Sincerely, your pal, Stuart Immonen.



Dear Stu-

Thanks for the letter, and thanks for your mother's cookies. No, I don't like coconuts, but they were good anyway.

Yes, at first I thought it was because Warren Ellis's general crappiness had somehow infected you, because this all started when you two teamed up for UFF. But then someone pointed out your art was the same for your UXM run with BKV, as seen here, and I realized it must be something more.

Anyway, thanks for kind words, and please try to die soon before you completely destroy your craft.

-Adam Balm.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:54 pm
by DennisMM
Dear Adam Balm,

I've always enjoyed the stories in your posts but figured they had to be made up. Imagine my surprise when I was told I'd have no inker on nextwave! What was I to do? I was already 40 days behind on the pencils! Well, I went to a bar and found a really hot redhead waiting for friends. "How'd you like to ink a humorous superhero comic by the edgiest writer in the field?" I asked. She was shy at first, but when I showed her my control with an ultra-fine Winsor Newton she decided to take a chance ... (edited for content) ... it was incredible, especially after she asked her friends over for a "jam" inking session. So don't be too "hard" on us, Adam. We're just trying to make a little money and have a little fun. And use really big brushes when we can.

<3,
Stuart Immomen and friends

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:01 pm
by MadCapsule
DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
MadCapsule wrote:Just look at Walter Simonson.


Holy crappa I'd rather not, eh? He anna his a wife, they single-handedly destroy a the X-Factor for a the Dino inna the late 80s early 90s, no? Just a plain sloppy work...


Not familiar with it. I do agree that he's gotten quite sloppy. The last thing I remember seeing from him was a DC comic about some dude that flew around in outer space on something that looked like a walker for space travel.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:38 pm
by The Garbage Man
keepcoolbutcare wrote:
Stuat Immonen wrote:Dear Adam "teh" Balm.

I've recently read thru all of your posts here in The Phantom Zone, and I find your early work, when you were posting for the love of it, to be far superior to your sloppy, hastily put together later work...what happened? And I notice you only bashed my Warren Ellis related work...coincidence? I think NOT!
Sincerely, your pal, Stuart Immonen.


ISASMMPAFD!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:46 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
The Garbage Man wrote:ISASMMPAFD!


what in tarnation does that even mean!

damnation man, in my day we only had the IPAMPILASH, with the occasional ISOMDILASH to mix things up a bit.

now you kids come along with your variations and vagaries of time honored linguistics...I can't keep up!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:15 pm
by burlivesleftnut
keepcoolbutcare wrote:
The Garbage Man wrote:ISASMMPAFD!


what in tarnation does that even mean!

damnation man, in my day we only had the IPAMPILASH, with the occasional ISOMDILASH to mix things up a bit.

now you kids come along with your variations and vagaries of time honored linguistics...I can't keep up!


imaxilash

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:11 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Adam Balm wrote:I read Next Wave last night, and something occured to me. What the fuck happened to this man.

Okay, about two years ago, Immonen was one of the rising stars of comics. As photo-realism was just starting to reach its peak, he had a style that rivaled Bryan Hitch.

which culminated in one of the singularly most unimpressive debut issues in recent memory. Next Wave #1:

WTF??

Is it just me?


burlivesleftnut wrote:I like the art. It actually suits the clever and inventive story very well.


Having just read this last night...hollerin' back atcha Burl! Big time second on that.

Would photorealism WORK with Nextwave?

I thought the "art" of Nextwave matched the content. Which is, ya know, kinda important to the medium.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:13 pm
by Adam Balm
keepcoolbutcare wrote:I thought the "art" of Nextwave matched the content.


Yes, it does. Both are mediocre and unmemorable.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:35 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Adam Balm wrote:
keepcoolbutcare wrote:I thought the "art" of Nextwave matched the content.


Yes, it does. Both are mediocre and unmemorable.


lighten up Francis.

Really, did you ever think Ellis doin' a parody of himself would be something you would like? Your predispostion to hating everything associated with the man renders any opinion you have on this moot and about as cliche as MasterWhedon loving all things associated with Joss.

"Bad Balmy go sizzle pop" if ya step up again, nerdlinger.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:23 pm
by Colin
Ellis doesn't ever make fun of himself, nor does he find it very funny when others do.

So, um...who wants to tell him?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:14 pm
by Adam Balm
Yeah, Ellis was making fun of Marvel here, not himself.

And everyone knows...it takes a singular wit to point and laugh at a dragon wearing speedos from the 60's. I'm sure no one would have thought that was silly if Ellis wasn't here to show us.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:25 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
um, wrong.

Dirk Anger is Ellis. That much is obvious. So instead of inserting himself as a pale do-gooder, this time he's the baddie. A drug takin', cigarettes and alcohol fueled OLD (that's the clue he's doin' self parody *cough* Elijah, Jenny Sparks *cough*) bitter man, fighting for the system, instead of against it.

Etheric Loop Recall Televocometer? Please, he's LAMPOONING himself for Christsakes!

Monica "zappin" the doggie is Jenny gone twisted.

Jeebus, I spend way too much time thinkin' 'bout this stuff...

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:29 pm
by burlivesleftnut
No KC... they do. I am glad someone else appreciate the MASTERPIECE for what it was.

I have often said, the world can be divide up into two kinds of people. Those who get Nextwave and those who don't. You my friend... YOU... well you are one of the illumati. Let's start our own forum and make fun of Colin, Adam and Dennis...

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:35 pm
by Adam Balm
I'm fucking deleting this thread.

You people can all die...

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:47 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Adam Balm wrote:I'm fucking deleting this thread.

You people can all die...


:shock:

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:48 pm
by bluebottle
keepcoolbutcare wrote:
Adam Balm wrote:I'm fucking deleting this thread.

You people can all die...


:shock:


He's just joking.

(i think)

WWWED?

(What would Warren Ellis Do?)

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:51 pm
by burlivesleftnut
This is what happens when petty talkbacking trolls are given mod powers. hmPH.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:51 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Bluebottle wrote:WWWED?

(What would Warren Ellis Do?)


he'd lock and then move the thread to the War Room.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:52 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
burlivesleftnut wrote:This is what happens when petty talkbacking trolls are given mod powers. hmPH.


where's Kai to pwn his ass (again) when we need him?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:56 pm
by Adam Balm
hug?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:58 pm
by burlivesleftnut
You lost that right when you became one of "them".

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:01 am
by Adam Balm
Image

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:23 am
by burlivesleftnut
Preview of Issue #2 courtesy of IGN.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:02 am
by Shane
I love realistic art, and I think the only reason I haven't tried to pick it up is because of the cartoony look. I'm not opposed to it, I think I'll try to jump on the band wagon here and catch up with you all. I'm going to fing next wave.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:01 pm
by Adam Balm
WTF NOES!!!

Stay away from this man. Stay away from it like the plague.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:10 pm
by bluebottle
read it, shane, read it!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:41 pm
by DennisMM
As the Ellis devotee here, I just want to say for a second time that I don't think he's doing comedy well. Adam doesn't like WE, but he's getting into Planetary. I dig Ellis, but if we all loved the same things and Ellis did the same thing every time (hold your tongue, Adam), I'd always be right and I'd rule this world like I rule your mamas. And the world would be pretty dull.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:45 pm
by burlivesleftnut
DennisMM wrote:As the Ellis devotee here, I just want to say for a second time that I don't think he's doing comedy well. Adam doesn't like WE, but he's getting into Planetary. I dig Ellis, but if we all loved the same things and Ellis did the same thing every time (hold your tongue, Adam), I'd always be right and I'd rule this world like I rule your mamas. And the world would be pretty dull.


More people would have throat carnage from maniacal biting.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:47 pm
by DennisMM
Well, there's that, too.

You Mods need to play nice and not keep changing the thread title. Can someone change it to Dennis pwns Stuart Immomen? Just for a few minutes? I've been following his work for 15 years, so I have more right to him than any of you. You know WHY I've been following his work for 15 years? Because I used to keep up with the DC Universe in a compulsive way. Also because I'm teh old.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:51 pm
by DennisMM
Thank you, Adam, for teaching us how to laugh ... and love ... all over again.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:21 pm
by DennisMM
New thread title via Adam:
Stuart Immonen and Warren Ellis touch dinks

Now we're just getting sick, man.