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Holy Terror! Batman (Batman vs. al Qaeda)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:32 pm
by The Garbage Man
From Playfuls.com:

Frank Miller, who changed the way people looked at comics with his noirish 1980s Batman graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns" and his "Sin City" series, says he's started work on a book where the caped crusader will "kick a lot of al Qaeda butt.", according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

"Not to put too fine a point on it -- it's a piece of propaganda," Miller told a group of about a thousand fans this weekend at the WonderCon comic book convention in San Francisco. "Batman kicks al Qaeda's ass."


:?

This seems like a very bad idea.

Don't get me wrong, I love Frank Miller and I love Dark Knight Returns, but after Dark Knight Returns Again (AKA Wet Ass) and All-Star Batman and Robin (AKA Newer Wet Ass), I think Frank needs to give Bats a rest.

Thoughts?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:36 pm
by MadCapsule
Oh my. This makes me sad.

Do another Sin City series, Frank.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:44 pm
by bc1970
Rehash. Batman already tracked Iranian UN Ambassador Joker through Beirut and Iran.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:54 pm
by Doc Holliday
Damn. So Miller is human after all.

Shame though...we all need heroes. :cry:

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:57 pm
by DennisMM
Miller once said, quoting an old dictum, that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. He seems to be continuing along that line here. The line keeps extending, from Sin City through DKSA to this. Miller, previously only mildly conservative in the social sense, seems to be tilting right.

The question is, will DC actually print it?

Personally, I'd like to see him take on something more challenging than another Sin City run. What happened to Jesus?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:00 pm
by Seppuku
I don't know, if you put that propoganda comment aside, it could be pretty good. Most of the Watchmen/Minutemen were straight-up fascists, fighting to uphold strong moral values etc. etc. and that didn't make the comic any worse. And it could have an ironic spin on it, Rambo II style. Though to tell you the truth, I think I've just about had enough of the Al Qaeda situation; you hear about it on the news 24/7, you're constantly being fed people's opinions on the internet... Why spend money on a comic that's only going to add to all of that? I guess I've got enough faith in Miller from his past work to let this scrape by and check it out when it's released, but it doesn't exactly sound all that creative.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:02 pm
by MasterWhedon
DennisMM wrote:What happened to Jesus?

He's still kicking around. You can talk to him if you close your eyes and fold your hands.

And I, for one, want Frank Miller to hang it up altogether. The man hasn't produced much of anything worthwhile in quite some time, and I hate seeing a guy like this tarnish his once-stellar reputation even further.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:15 pm
by buster00
DennisMM wrote:
The question is, will DC actually print it?


Sure. If they think there's a dollar to made from it.


Without even putting a toe in potentially hot water, this topic could become EFBR fodder in a big hurry....(*shutting mouth, getting back to how much Frank Miller sucks now*)


Frank Miller sucks now. Even despite my "question everything" worldview, I would buy this IF I thought it would be a good story. However, the words "Frank," "Miller," and "Batman" on the front cover have pretty much assured me that won't be the case.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:56 pm
by DirtyRatBastard
Just the idea of this puts me off my food.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:20 pm
by DennisMM
I just don't think it's the kind of thing either of the big two would dip a toe into. Almost everyone on this forum is far too young to remember the short-lived Solson Comics. It was one of the literally hundreds of small B&W publishers who jumped into the arena after Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles hit big.

Solson was the definition of crap, primarily because its talent roster was not craftless hacks but former comics artists with solid reputations, most notably Rich Buckler. Solson's books included Samurai Santa, Daffy Qadaffi and Reagan's Raiders. Yes, it was a comic book about Ronnie Reagan and members of his administration running around in superhero-style costumes saving the world from terror and oppression, so long as neither was committed by our allies.

EDIT: IMAGE REMOVED TO SAVE PHOTOBUCKET SPACE. Sorry, sepp, for the void in your post.

Reagan was as popular a president as there has been since FDR, and even a funny little (stupid and bad) comic like this lasted only three issues in 1987, when some stuff of amazing crapitude sold reasonably well. (Adolescent Radioactive Black-Belt Hamsters, anyone?)

I just don't see the Batman thing happening.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:31 pm
by Seppuku
DennisMM wrote:I just don't think it's the kind of thing either of the big two would dip a toe into. Almost everyone on this forum is far too young to remember the short-lived Solson Comics. It was one of the literally hundreds of small B&W publishers who jumped into the arena after Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles hit big.

Solson was the definition of crap, primarily because its talent roster was not craftless hacks but former comics artists with solid reputations, most notably Rich Buckler. Solson's books included Samurai Santa, Daffy Qadaffi and Reagan's Raiders. Yes, it was a comic book about Ronnie Reagan and members of his administration running around in superhero-style costumes saving the world from terror and oppression, so long as neither was committed by our allies.

Image

Reagan was as popular a president as there has been since FDR, and even a funny little (stupid and bad) comic like this lasted only three issues in 1987, when some stuff of amazing crapitude sold reasonably well. (Adolescent Radioactive Black-Belt Hamsters, anyone?)

I just don't see the Batman thing happening.


A Ronald Reagan comic?

That would make sense, the guy was quite a popular actor, and I've got a few films he's featured in (Santa Fe Trail, The Rear Gunner, The Killers). He had a sort of vacuous appeal; more a star than an actor. I can imagine someone wanting to make a comic about his Sandinista (or, insert other enemy of the American people here) killing exploits. I think the comic medium has always been hyper-real, so it's a place where propoganda can take an easy footing. In fact, I'm willing to bet that quite a few people in politics today read about those Masked Avengers when they were young. (If they were ever young...)

Re: Batman Fights al Qaeda

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:44 pm
by monorail77
The Garbage Man wrote:This seems like a very bad idea.

Don't get me wrong, I love Frank Miller and I love Dark Knight Returns, but after Dark Knight Returns Again (AKA Wet Ass) and All-Star Batman and Robin (AKA Newer Wet Ass), I think Frank needs to give Bats a rest.

Thoughts?


Well, I don't like a wet ass, don't like having a wet ass, its uncomfy. So I'm gonna have to agree here, on priciple.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:51 pm
by Theta
MasterWhedon wrote:
DennisMM wrote:What happened to Jesus?

He's still kicking around. You can talk to him if you close your eyes and fold your hands.

And I, for one, want Frank Miller to hang it up altogether. The man hasn't produced much of anything worthwhile in quite some time, and I hate seeing a guy like this tarnish his once-stellar reputation even further.


You know, I might be the only person on earth who liked "The Dark Knight Strikes Again", but quite frankly, I thought it was great, writing-wise. Miller was trying to bring back the spirit of the Silver Age while retaining his own sensibility and I think it worked quite well. I especially liked his bits on Plastic Man.

I also question the idea that the man's a conservative. No conservative would make a comic book about overthrowing the government, and certainly not the government depicted in DK2 (notice how the CGI president looks a lot like Bush Junior?) If anything he's a cranky liberal.

I'll grant All-Star Batman and Robin is pretty lame, though. It seems fanboyish.

His art at this point I'm not a fan of. Miller seems to be getting more and more cartoony with the big floppy feet...a lot of his character look like corrupted clowns, these days.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:52 pm
by Theta
DennisMM wrote:
The question is, will DC actually print it?



Are you kidding? If they'd print "Identity Crisis", they'd print this.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:53 pm
by DennisMM
I'd say Miller is solidly libertarian. There was a decided dislike of conservative mainstream in both DK series, but the liberals were portrayed as ineffective whiners.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:03 pm
by Theta
DennisMM wrote:I'd say Miller is solidly libertarian. There was a decided dislike of conservative mainstream in both DK series, but the liberals were portrayed as ineffective whiners.


Unfortunately, that's all too close to reality.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:07 pm
by ZGangsta
I agree. Take a look at the doctors who believe that Joker (and Harvey Dent) can be rehabilitated. That part of DKR always struck me as Miller's response to some of the more left wing stances on crime and punishment. So even though the book was incrediably critical of Regan-style conservatism, it took shots at both sides.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:16 pm
by Adam Balm
So...why exactly does this have to be an ironic commentary to be good?

I mean, the number one movie on my must-see list right now is Valley of the Wolves-Iraq because it looked like total hardcore pulp. If I can watch Americans being portrayed oversimplistically as mustache twirlers, just for pure kicks, I can do the same with Al Qaeda. Not to do any moral equivalency, but both will always make great villains.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:39 pm
by buster00
Adam Balm wrote:So...why exactly does this have to be an ironic commentary to be good?

I mean, the number one movie on my must-see list right now is Valley of the Wolves-Iraq because it looked like total hardcore pulp. If I can watch Americans being portrayed oversimplistically as mustache twirlers, just for pure kicks, I can do the same with Al Qaeda. Not to do any moral equivalency, but both will always make great villains.


This is what I meant by Frank just plain giving us a good story.

But I'm not sure he should have anything to do with ANY kind of Batman story anymore.

No, I take that back. I AM sure. He should NOT.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:44 pm
by Adam Balm
Yeah, after reading just the first couple issues of AS-B&R, I'd lean toward that as well...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:07 pm
by DennisMM
ZGangsta wrote:I agree. Take a look at the doctors who believe that Joker (and Harvey Dent) can be rehabilitated.


Take another look at the first issue. Bruce paid for all of Harvey's surgeries and long-term psychotherapy. HE believed Harvey could be rehabilitated. The Joker's a different story. In DK he's a necrophiliac with an intense romantic fixation on Batman, and no amount of therapy is gonna fix that.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:45 pm
by Colin
I can't wait for this to come out.

All-Star Batman and Robin has been fucking hilarious so far, but I look forward to Miller returning to more serious work with Batman Terror.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:48 pm
by Colin
buster00 wrote:
Sure. If they think there's a dollar to made from it.


Without even putting a toe in potentially hot water, this topic could become EFBR fodder in a big hurry....(*shutting mouth, getting back to how much Frank Miller sucks now*)


Frank Miller sucks now. Even despite my "question everything" worldview, I would buy this IF I thought it would be a good story. However, the words "Frank," "Miller," and "Batman" on the front cover have pretty much assured me that won't be the case.


Can someone cut this and drop it over in the EFBR?

*cracks knuckles*...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:52 am
by buster00
(*spits on the ground*)

I think they should've gotten WARREN ELLIS to write it!

(*cracks knuckles*)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:17 pm
by Colin
Tell me WHY you think Frank Miller sucks. I'll give you that chance.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:18 pm
by Shane
He has not been doing the edgy stuff he once did, but that's because he is the one that raised the bar.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:30 pm
by DennisMM
Why must all his stuff have to be edgy? Everyone has the right to do material that differs from his/her typical work. Hard Boiled and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot were very different from the sort of thing he'd done in the past, for better or for worse.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:13 pm
by Shane
I was not saying he had to be, just that it once was.

But I agree totally he does great stuff, I've had verry little complaints with him. I think my least favorite of his works was Dark knight returns and DK2, but I liked both of them, so that says alot about how much I do like him.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:05 pm
by Hard Seat Sleeper
Colin wrote:All-Star Batman and Robin has been fucking hilarious so far, but I look forward to Miller returning to more serious work with Batman Terror.

I agree. I understood what he was doing right away. A lot of people didn't.

He's taking the piss.

Similarly, I thought DK2 was brilliant.

For this one, didn't he say something to the effect that guys making comics in the 40's were brave for drawing books where Hitler gets punched in the face?

He has a point.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:36 pm
by Chairman Kaga
I look forward to it whether he does a "straight" propanganda piece or more of a sarcastic send up.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:40 pm
by Eric G
Doc Holliday wrote:Damn. So Miller is human after all.

Shame though...we all need heroes. :cry:


My thoughts exactly. :cry:

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:40 pm
by cinephile2000
I'm betting straight

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:11 am
by buster00
Colin wrote:Tell me WHY you think Frank Miller sucks. I'll give you that chance.


I'll take back "sucks." "Disappoints" is more accurate.

Remember how you felt at the end of Mission Impossible 2 and you realized it was directed by John Woo?!? How it should have been FIFTY times better? That's the same feeling I got about halfway through issue 2 of DK2.

"Did this man get fuckin' Alzheimer's or something? Did he simply forget how to create the style for which he's famous? I hope we get to see more of his previous style in the future...I, and many other fans, loved that style." I don't think I ever did make it to the end of Dark Knight Strikes Back.

Yet STILL I HAVE ENOUGH LOVE for Miller as a writer in general (but ESPECIALLY regarding his prior treatments of Batman) to plunk down my hard earned money for 3 issues of goddamn AS B&R, and the best things about them have been the "ALF" line and Black Canary's fine, fine ass (for which we can thank Jim Lee).

Stop being so smug and tell us WHAT IS SO "HILARIOUS" about it that I'm not "getting"? At what point is the Batmobile just going to stand up and do battle with Megatron? If you know for a fact that Terror is going to be better, I can't wait. I'm tired of getting jerked around.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:08 am
by Colin
buster00 wrote:
Colin wrote:Tell me WHY you think Frank Miller sucks. I'll give you that chance.


Stop being so smug and tell us WHAT IS SO "HILARIOUS" about it that I'm not "getting"? At what point is the Batmobile just going to stand up and do battle with Megatron? If you know for a fact that Terror is going to be better, I can't wait. I'm tired of getting jerked around.


Miller is an innovator. He never tries the same approach to any character twice. If all he was about was one style he'd get bored pretty quickly. And so would I.

With Batman, Year One was a different approach than DKR, and DKR was a different approach than DK2. If you read the last lines of DK2 on the last page, it pretty much sums up the entire book. "I used to be sentimental, back when I was old." Tony Millionaire said it best: "...this looks like it was drawn by a kid with a sharpie pen and coloured by his girlfriend on her mac." Miller even cut the bristol boards and drew the borders himself. It was all about breaking out the pens and grabbing some paper and just drawing this cool fucking story out of his head. And it was. The art stank, sure, but it was still full of life.

With All-Star Batman and Robin, Batman's only been Batman for about a year or so, and he's still only 25 or 26 years old. He's in our age group (I'm assuming the bulk of the members are 20-30 years old), and he's still young and cocky. He still talks like most of us do. Robin's state of mind is exactly how Batman was when his parents were killed in front of him. If you read #2 Batman's trying not to lose it when he looks at him, so he keeps up the cocky demeanor. It's funny because he's the coolest superhero ever, and he knows it. I mean come on. Are you dense? Are you ALF or something? He's the goddamn Batman!

He's going to be staying on as writer for ASB&R after Lee leaves and Neal Adams takes over. You can bet that his approach will once again shift when the currect story arc finishes.

I'm looking forward to Terror because Miller's bottled up how he's felt about 9/11 for 5 years, and now, just when everything's cooled down, he's gonna let it all out. I can't wait.

So Miller "disappoints" you these days. Is it because he's tired of doing the same old thing? Well then that's okay.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:09 am
by buster00
Colin wrote:So Miller "disappoints" you these days. Is it because he's tired of doing the same old thing? Well then that's okay.


When I get taken to school by you, Colin, it's a pleasure. Not just because I get to see up your blonde teacher's skirt, but because I get to take something away. pwnt.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:39 am
by burlivesleftnut
I'm not sure how Colin can read any comic with Miller's dick in his mouth like that.


HAHAHAH j/k Colin.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:35 pm
by Colin
Newsflash, Burl: DAN SLOTT CAN'T JUMP.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:50 pm
by Adam Balm
Jay Leno was talking about this comic on his show last night. He said 'Boy, if the muslims hated our cartoons before...'

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:45 pm
by Colin
You watch Leno?


HA HA HA DISOWNED!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:50 pm
by Adam Balm
No. Somebody else had it on in the background.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:59 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Adam Balm wrote:No. Somebody else had it on in the background.


liar, you know you steal your best material from him.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:00 pm
by Adam Balm
Holy shit, Leno has good material now?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:00 pm
by burlivesleftnut
Jay Leno makes me laugh. But I have to think about him getting hit by a Buick when I do it.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:07 pm
by Keepcoolbutcare
Adam Balm wrote:Holy shit, Leno has good material now?


only his math jokes...

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:08 pm
by Adam Balm
Then I should steal them because my math jokes fucking SUCK.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:17 pm
by LeFlambeur
Wow...Just when I thought Frank Miller couldn't get any sloppier.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:23 pm
by wharto
He could title it Batman Battles The Evil Moslems and just be out in the open with his ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:37 pm
by The Garbage Man
Adam Balm wrote:Then I should steal them because my math jokes fucking SUCK.


LIES!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:53 pm
by Colin
LeFlambeur wrote:Wow...Just when I thought Frank Miller couldn't get any sloppier.


Elaborate or get the fuck out.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:54 pm
by Colin
wharto wrote:He could title it Batman Battles The Evil Moslems and just be out in the open with his ignorance.


It's called Batman: Terror. He fights Al Qaeda TERRORISTS.

Talk about ignorant...