X-asperation - please help!!!

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X-asperation - please help!!!

Postby Doc Holliday on Wed May 31, 2006 8:50 am

I finally returned to The Forbidden Planet with one thing on my mind - to get myself back into the X-Universe.

I left 45 mins later, defeated by all the titles, various timelines and so on. Jeez Louise...milk it for what its worth or what!

Right, well, back in the day when I read it there was Uncanny X-Men, New Mutants and X-Factor. I'd got back ish's so I'd genned up on the introduction of the NEW X-Men, read up on the initial decline of Banshee, read the first 40 or so ever comics and so on.

I stopped reading X-Men and X-Factor around about Factors 3rd year - the first ever story featuring Apocalypse was pretty much drawing to a close.

Can anyone suggest a) What Graphic novels to buy to get back into the swing of things, and

b) some sort of effing lineage. I really don't want to be reading about Bishops adventures in what is HIS third timeline, before I understand what the hell I'm reading.

Its a big ask I know - but I honestly don't know where to start - I need to understand how Iceman's powers got suped up, whatever happened to the survivors of The Mutant Massacre...what Excalibur is about....How Emma Frost became a quasi-ally and so on and so on and so on.......

HELP!!!!!
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Postby doglips on Wed May 31, 2006 9:03 am

That's a tall order Doc, the X-Universe is expansive to say the least. You need Colin, Dennis or Whedon for this.

Or forget everything you knew/want to know and start fresh with Ultimate X-Men.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed May 31, 2006 10:56 am

My best advice...read through a few wikipedia articles then just pick up Astonishing X-Men and maybe X-Factor. The thing is, XMen comics sucked horribly for a good period of time...after you quit reading, I believe. All the questions you want answered almost aren't worth answering...b/c the answers aren't very good. But I'll try to answer the three questions you posed.

1) Mutant Massacre? The MM was basically overshadowed by the genocidal attack on Genosha which killed...I think a few million mutants. I don't even think the MM gets talked about anymore.

2)What's up with Excalibur? Just another way for Claremont to continue tearing down what he once built up.

3) Emma Frost, good guy? As one of the only survivors of the Genosha massacre, she was rescued by the XMen and joined them at the mansion (though I believe she had already gone "good" before that)

And if you're wondering what the deal with Genosha is...Magneto had the UN recognize Genosha as a mutant nation and then became it's leader...until Cassandra Nove (Professor X's twin sister, who he "murdered" in the womb) created two giant trash-heap Sentinels and wiped out the entire island.

Hmmm... on second thought...maybe you should just forget about the Xmen and read something else.... ;-)
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Postby cinephile2000 on Wed May 31, 2006 11:02 am

I found the X-men encyclopdia to be very helpful in getting brought up to date on the charecters, considering I hadn't ever picked up one of their comics. I'm a youngin.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed May 31, 2006 12:29 pm

This won't help you as I too have absolutely no idea what is going on
in the X-universe these days, something to do with a house of M?

Anyways, after the surprisingly good X3, I, like most, got a hankerin' for
an X-Fix. So, avoiding the often exasperating trip to the comic book
store (where I go maybe 2 or 3 times a year and drop copious duckets
on collections usually), I merely crept down into the basement and pulled
out all my old musty XMen comics and am enjoying re-reading them
immensely. The years I have correspond roughly between '79 - '88.
Basically starting around the time of the original Dark Phoenix saga.
Boy, Rogue had a really bad hair style in the beginning. And I can't
believe the Morlocks were going to try and marry Kitty to Caliban!
Luckily for her, hes a nice guy and let her go... anyways...

Anyways, can anyone tell me what the hell the 616 universe is? I have
no clue. I'd like to pick up that HOUSE OF M collection, but I'm confused
which one contains the main story.

Word to comics publishers; it may help your sales if you make comics
a little more user / reader friendly to the general public. Theres a huge
market out there for comics; might want to think about trying to reach
them...
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed May 31, 2006 12:37 pm

The 616 is the "normal" continuity Marvel Universe. Named to help differentiate it from the Ultimate, 2099, Future Past, Future Present, AoA, etc universes.

House of M was another reality-altering, internet-halving event whose climax saw the Scarlet Witch turning the majority of the mutant population into non-mutants (this is literally all you need to know about House of M). There are now only 198 mutants left in the 616. However, there are now more 616 comics about mutants than there have ever been. Weird how that works, eh?
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Postby Hollywood_Bob on Wed May 31, 2006 12:49 pm

I too am in a similar situation Doc, and I have decided to jump back in with the Civil War event that has just started...and from here just work my way back.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed May 31, 2006 12:52 pm

Doc, I'd recommend Wiki or UncannyXMen.Net. The latter is what I went through for quick synopses of each individual issue I'd missed in Uncanny, X-Men and various others.

I left off after Operation: Zero Tolerance, then started back up again with Astonishing and a bit of the Ultimate. Now I'm buying them all, even the crappy ones. (Damn my addiction!)

Basically, for my money, Astonishing is the best the X-Men have ever been written (plant!), and the current X-Factor is probably my favorite spin on the X-universe. Those two are definitely worth getting into.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed May 31, 2006 12:53 pm

The Ginger Man wrote:The 616 is the "normal" continuity Marvel Universe. Named to help differentiate it from the Ultimate, 2099, Future Past, Future Present, AoA, etc universes.

House of M was another reality-altering, internet-halving event whose climax saw the Scarlet Witch turning the majority of the mutant population into non-mutants (this is literally all you need to know about House of M). There are now only 198 mutants left in the 616. However, there are now more 616 comics about mutants than there have ever been. Weird how that works, eh?


So HOUSE OF M is just so-so? And if so, which is the X-Title to read now?
I read a few of those Whedon Astonishing X-Men, and liked them, but then
lost track...
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed May 31, 2006 1:00 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
The Ginger Man wrote:The 616 is the "normal" continuity Marvel Universe. Named to help differentiate it from the Ultimate, 2099, Future Past, Future Present, AoA, etc universes.

House of M was another reality-altering, internet-halving event whose climax saw the Scarlet Witch turning the majority of the mutant population into non-mutants (this is literally all you need to know about House of M). There are now only 198 mutants left in the 616. However, there are now more 616 comics about mutants than there have ever been. Weird how that works, eh?


So HOUSE OF M is just so-so? And if so, which is the X-Title to read now?
I read a few of those Whedon Astonishing X-Men, and liked them, but then
lost track...

House of M was so-so, yes, but the ramifications of it--the Decimation--are pretty wonderful.

Check out Astonishing, X-Factor and The Official X-Thread.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed May 31, 2006 1:13 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:House of M was so-so, yes, but the ramifications of it--the Decimation--are pretty wonderful.

Check out Astonishing, X-Factor and The Official X-Thread.


But you don't need to read House of M to get the ramifications. In fact, it's almost a waste of time. Definetly just Wiki it. And while the Decimation is cool in concept, so much of the overall story feels like it's just building the inevitable big event where the popular mutants get their powers back. You know, like when Wolvie lost his adamantium, and at first we were all like...AWESOME! but then we were just like...so, uh, when's he gonna get it back?

Still, read Astonishing and Xfactor.
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Postby Shane on Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm

I will always suggest Astonishing.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Wed May 31, 2006 3:16 pm

Thanks guys - believe me, I have a reasonable sense of just HOW big a question that was.....which makes me feel the need to say thanks again in the same sentence :lol:

One last one - I came soooooo close to buying the "Age of Apocalypse" graphic novel - its in four volumes.

I ducked out when I saw it was Magneto's X-Men (though he'd taken charge of the New Mutants when I was reading before, so I kinda understand I think). But it had the new (or old?) Sunfire on the cover and new costumes for everyone.

Do I stand one of Bobby Drake's snowballs' chances in hell of understanding this story if I just dive straight in with that one? Vol. 1 took in, amongst other titles, Astonishing X-Men 1-2 (I think....or maybe it was 2-3....awww man, my nose has started bleeding again......dudes....I remain in your debt....) :)
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed May 31, 2006 3:30 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:One last one - I came soooooo close to buying the "Age of Apocalypse" graphic novel - its in four volumes.

I ducked out when I saw it was Magneto's X-Men (though he'd taken charge of the New Mutants when I was reading before, so I kinda understand I think). But it had the new (or old?) Sunfire on the cover and new costumes for everyone.

Well, to give you a quick idea: Age of Apocalypse happened when Xavier's son, Legion, went back in time to kill Magneto and therefore free his father from fighting him all his life. The kicker was that he went to a time when Chuck and Mags were still friends, so Xavier took the bullet for him. Thus, with Xavier dead, Magneto took the reigns of the X-Men.

The world eventually went to shit and Apocalypse rose. The X-Men, in their various incarnations, all fought the good fight for about four months until the epic X-Men: Omega, in which they managed to turn the world back. There were about four or five folks from the Age of Apoc that managed to make it back into the 616 with the rest, X-Man, Sugar Man, Dark Beast, and Holocaust among them.

Doc Holliday wrote:Do I stand one of Bobby Drake's snowballs' chances in hell of understanding this story if I just dive straight in with that one? Vol. 1 took in, amongst other titles, Astonishing X-Men 1-2 (I think....or maybe it was 2-3....awww man, my nose has started bleeding again......dudes....I remain in your debt....) :)

If you're looking to join up again, try checking out Morrison's New X-Men run. There's some really, really cool stuff in there (and some stuff I didn't care for), but it's where Whedon's run takes most of its cues from (i.e. extinction of Genosha, secondary mutations, Cassandra Nova, Jean's death, Scott and Emma getting together, Magneto fucking up NYC, etc.).

If you have any questions, ask away.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed May 31, 2006 3:34 pm

Age of Apocolypse doesn't require much in the need of pre-research...and it doesn't really tie into any present day X stuff (that I know of). It is, IMO, one of the best alternate world storylines the XMen has ever had, in that it was pretty original, well written/drawn, and HAD AN ENDING. In the original AoA event, the entire thing wrapped up in a perfect, bittersweet finale. Unfortunatley, it made money so they kept adding onto the universe. Even to the point of recently bringing it back (except that this is a DIFFERENT Age of Apocolypse...based on something idiotic like...I don't know, Sabertooth is left handed instead of right handed in this AoA)

The only issue with the AoA trades is that they've taken all the AoA stories (original and not original) and placed them in chronological order in four volumes. Which is fine...but you have to wade through the shit to get to the gold. And since I haven't read them all, I don't how the shit affects the gold....the change in order may affect how the story reads.

But fuck it. I say go get them all. If anything, you'll see Magneto at one of his coolest moments. Hell, this goes for most every character in there.

Damn...I just convinced myself to go buy these things. See you at the store, Doc!
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed May 31, 2006 3:35 pm

Doc, I was going to ask this as well. :)

I have never read any of the comics...I only saw the cartoon. A recent glance through Wikipedia was mind-numbing, to say the least. I knew the X-Universe was big, but I had no idea how big and convoluted it was!

I am still daunted--and betraying my comic cluelessness by asking where I can find the Dark Phoenix saga? Please don't be hard on me.

And I really dug this issue which I found on someone's blog, but apparently it's really expensive now? What a pity.

http://daveslongbox.blogspot.com/2006/04/uncanny-x-men-205-marvel-comics-1986.html

Now you know why I never post in the comic forum, and the only comics in my possession are those badly-written Tomb Raider ones.
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Postby Adam Balm on Wed May 31, 2006 3:37 pm

LS, I think you should really try giving the Ultimate line a shot. It was designed specifically to be new-reader friendly.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed May 31, 2006 3:41 pm

The Ginger Man wrote:But fuck it. I say go get them all. If anything, you'll see Magneto at one of his coolest moments. Hell, this goes for most every character in there.

FUCK. YES.

Magneto vs. Apocalypse in X-Men: Omega is one of the single best moments of my comic book reading life. The guy gets beat to shit literally for months, then finally turns the tables. Beautiful, beautiful stuff.

As for how confusing the X-verse it, it's taken me some time to do it, but I really do know the whole world. I haven't read it all, and I only have vague recollections of certain events, but I know the throughline.

Now, if anyone ever asked me to explain it... Well, that's another story.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed May 31, 2006 4:04 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
The Ginger Man wrote:But fuck it. I say go get them all. If anything, you'll see Magneto at one of his coolest moments. Hell, this goes for most every character in there.

FUCK. YES.

Magneto vs. Apocalypse in X-Men: Omega is one of the single best moments of my comic book reading life. The guy gets beat to shit literally for months, then finally turns the tables. Beautiful, beautiful stuff.


"What are you doing? Why won't you fight back?!?"

"I'm concentrating."


oooooh. Still gives me chills just thinking about it.
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