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DC To Kill Off [REDACTED]? (SPOILERS!)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:27 am
by buster00
This is posted at Comic Book Resources, for whatever that's worth:

THE DEATH OF A BAT

In June/July, DC are killing off Batman. Or rather, Bruce Wayne. Robin will inherit the Batman cowl. One of the Robins anyway. Tim Drake. Jason Todd. Or possibly Red Hood. Hey, maybe Jean-Paul Valley, it has been ten years since Azrael.

Either way, the book will relaunch with a nice shiny #1.

Yes, didn't Captain America miss a trick there? I'm sure Marvel will do the same come 2009.

And what of Batwoman? Well, I'm told the launch of the Rucka/Williams series has been pushed back yet again because of the movie, and fears of "unacceptable media coverage." I'm told four issues are fully completed.

Apparently it's okay for Batman to be dead, and a new character take his place when there's a movie out. But not for Batwoman to be a lesbian. At least wait till it's gone to DVD for that brunette bombshell.

I'm reminded of the Warner Bros executive instruction to Grant Morrison and Dave McKean over "Arkham Asylum," that the Joker not be seen dressing up as Madonna in case the cinema audience believed that meant Jack Nicholson was a transvestite.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:30 am
by Chairman Kaga
Crap event ala Knightfall, Death of Supes, House of M, Infinite Crisis, Civil War, Spidey Clones etc etc ad nauseum.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:30 am
by junesquad
You aren't allowed to kill off Bruce Wayne... that's like a Seventh Level of Hell sin... I'm glad I have had to quit reading comic books during school.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:37 am
by DennisMM
Jason will be Batman. He has no other place in the DCU. Okay, if he survives Final Crisis he'll be Batman.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:30 am
by burlivesleftnut
I hope it's superman that kills him. Then I will be a happy man.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:31 am
by Chairman Kaga
But Superman can't kill him because Superman is a pussy.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:50 am
by buster00
I don't think anyone's too worried about whether or not Bruce will actually stay dead, but this part annoys me:

Either way, the book will relaunch with a nice shiny #1.


Batman is up to issue #670, dating back to 1940. Yet, DC would break that streak just so they can make the money from selling a Batman #1.

DC To Kill Off Bruce Wayne?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:16 am
by bastard_robo
Wonderful.

Fuck over one of the most Iconic charecters in comic history for a few bucks!

Woopee fucking shit...

So what, is this new batman going to use guns and be a complete one demionsal charecter just so non comic fans will pick up the book?


I dont even know anymore

Re: DC To Kill Off Bruce Wayne?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:22 am
by buster00
bastard_robo wrote:
So what, is this new batman going to use guns and be a complete one demionsal charecter just so non comic fans will pick up the book?


If Jason Todd becomes the new Batman, I'd bet that's exactly what we'll get.

It seems weird that DC would try this particular stunt so close to the new movie's release.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:26 am
by Fievel
buster00 wrote:I don't think anyone's too worried about whether or not Bruce will actually stay dead, but this part annoys me:

Either way, the book will relaunch with a nice shiny #1.


Batman is up to issue #670, dating back to 1940. Yet, DC would break that streak just so they can make the money from selling a Batman #1.


I have no vested interest in the Batman series. I had a few here or there back in the 80's. I have a few graphic novels as well.
But I FULLY AGREE with the point made above.

So much for history. Hello almighty dollar.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:49 am
by Chairman Kaga
Fievel wrote:
buster00 wrote:I don't think anyone's too worried about whether or not Bruce will actually stay dead, but this part annoys me:

Either way, the book will relaunch with a nice shiny #1.


Batman is up to issue #670, dating back to 1940. Yet, DC would break that streak just so they can make the money from selling a Batman #1.


I have no vested interest in the Batman series. I had a few here or there back in the 80's. I have a few graphic novels as well.
But I FULLY AGREE with the point made above.

So much for history. Hello almighty dollar.

It's A NEW Coke style promotion. Rile up the fans with this supposed reboot and then in 12 months go back to the way things were and pretend it didn't happen including the original numbering.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:25 am
by Leckomaniac
Sigh

I was hoping to avoid publishing spoilers, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. Hope no one wanted to be surprised!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:09 am
by buster00
Leckomaniac wrote:Sigh

I was hoping to avoid publishing spoilers, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. Hope no one wanted to be surprised!


Sorry, Lecko. I missed that post.

Either way, though, you know that Time Warner is going to absolutely inundate us with this. From the Lifestyle section of your local newspaper, to the time-wasting Showbiz segment on your local news, it'll be just like Death of Robin, Death of Superman, Death of Captain America, etc.

Sooner or later, everyone's going to know about it. That's why they do these publicity stunts in the first place.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:35 am
by Leckomaniac
buster00 wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:Sigh

I was hoping to avoid publishing spoilers, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. Hope no one wanted to be surprised!


Sorry, Lecko. I missed that post.

Either way, though, you know that Time Warner is going to absolutely inundate us with this. From the Lifestyle section of your local newspaper, to the time-wasting Showbiz segment on your local news, it'll be just like Death of Robin, Death of Superman, Death of Captain America, etc.

Sooner or later, everyone's going to know about it. That's why they do these publicity stunts in the first place.


Sadly, you are 100% correct. Killing off Bruce Wayne...right when Mr. Al Ghul, king of the Lazarus Pit, is being brought back...hmmmm...I wonder when Bruce will be returned using the pit.

What is so sad is that the end result is so obvious...we literally KNOW how they will bring him back. Just a matter of when and why.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:06 am
by Fried Gold
One would think it'd either be Dick Grayson or Tim Drake, as they all went on that "voyage of discovery" thing during the 52-year.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:14 am
by junesquad
Chairman Kaga wrote:But Superman can't kill him because Superman is a pussy.


Superman has a pussy?

No, really, I think it's just all around annoying. I hate it when they fuck with your childhood icons for a few dollars. Oh well...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:16 am
by unikrunk
OMFG! OH NOES!

Yeah, he will be so dead that upon his return the world will be stunned and awed.

More stunned than awed, actually.

/can anyone turn my sarcasm dial down to a 7? It’s stuck at 11 and I can't reach the switch.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:17 am
by Nordling
I'd care if superhero comics mattered.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:21 am
by ONeillSG1
Leckomaniac wrote:Sadly, you are 100% correct. Killing off Bruce Wayne...right when Mr. Al Ghul, king of the Lazarus Pit, is being brought back...hmmmm...I wonder when Bruce will be returned using the pit.

What is so sad is that the end result is so obvious...we literally KNOW how they will bring him back. Just a matter of when and why.


I was just thinking the same thing.

Al Ghul has too much "respect" for "the Detective" not to have him around as his one true equal adversary.

The League of Shadows will resurrect him, he'll go through some sort of amnesia thing, and face off against Jason Todd in order to reclaim the mantle.

Last page will be Bruce/Batman swinging off with Jason Todd in some sort of new alternative identity, swinging with Robin and Batgirl behind them. Game over.

Just a horrible idea.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:37 am
by The Vicar
This sucks.
And all for a few cheap & easy dollars.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:40 am
by Leckomaniac
The Vicar wrote:This sucks.
And all for a few cheap & easy dollars.


Sucking for cheap & easy dollars...


...is Havoc involved in this equation somehow?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:58 am
by The Vicar
Leckomaniac wrote:
The Vicar wrote:This sucks.
And all for a few cheap & easy dollars.


Sucking for cheap & easy dollars...


...is Havoc involved in this equation somehow?


Yup, I left the door wiiiiide open......

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:03 pm
by burlivesleftnut
Nordling wrote:I'd care if superhero comics mattered.


And yet you venture into a thread that should not matter to you. You should change your name to Quizling.

Re: DC To Kill Off Bruce Wayne?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:12 pm
by minstrel
buster00 wrote:It seems weird that DC would try this particular stunt so close to the new movie's release.


This is the thing that struck me, too. Why kill of Bruce in the comics when you've got a very successful movie franchise going? And a Justice League movie in the works?

They're basically telling the audience "Don't bother going to see the films, because we're killing off the character anyway."

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:12 pm
by Nordling
You're all getting sweaty over a marketing ploy. It's like a Pavlov experiment, except NERD.

It shouldn't matter.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:15 pm
by Nordling
And if you honestly think Bruce Wayne is forever dead, I got some stock to sell you and some land as well. I have pictures that I took of both, so obviously, I'm on the up and up.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:16 pm
by Leckomaniac
Nordling wrote:You're all getting sweaty over a marketing ploy. It's like a Pavlov experiment, except NERD.

It shouldn't matter.


No one is getting anywhere close to "sweaty". We are all discussing it in a very laid back manner...discussing how much of a publicity stunt it is.

If you think superhero comics do not matter (first off...you are either stupid or naive) and that we are all overreacting...do not enter the thread. Leave us to our silly emotions. I dont get what you were hoping to accomplish by posting the two posts you have made in this thread. It was clearly meant to put down those of us that HAVE posted in this thread and that is something I think is in direct contradiction to the reason why the Zone exists. Take that shit to the TalkBacks.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:16 pm
by Pacino86845
I'll give you five bucks for all your land.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:16 pm
by Leckomaniac
Nordling wrote:And if you honestly think Bruce Wayne is forever dead, I got some stock to sell you and some land as well. I have pictures that I took of both, so obviously, I'm on the up and up.


Show me one, ONE, post in this thread that suggests anyone here believes that Bruce Wayne will be dead forever.

Seriously.

Show me one.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:18 pm
by minstrel
Nordling wrote:You're all getting sweaty over a marketing ploy. It's like a Pavlov experiment, except NERD.


This is an inadequate statement.

We are getting sweaty over a STUPID marketing ploy. It's not like we all love Bruce (everybody knows he's coming back, anyway). It's that we're shocked at the dumbassness of DC.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:18 pm
by DennisMM
That's Quisling.

Over in News and Previews, removing the tiny text as people are discussing it openly here.

Mighty Manfred wrote:I can believe it. The current Earth-1 universe is getting cut to pieces in Countdown to Final Crisis, and the Final Crisis is still six months away! The latest teaser shows Batman's cape on the ground, which Didio says indicates death. Also, when Donna, Jason and Kyle visited the one very peaceful Earth, Jason was Batman and much was made of Earth-1 Jason's failure to get past sidekick.


It makes sense to me. The signs are there, though I didn't do too well with the first round of signs. However, the first round of signs also suggested Batman (whoever was in the suit) would be wearing vaguely middle-eastern garb, which suggests Bruce and Talia's son Damian may take on the Batman identity.

minstrel wrote:
buster00 wrote:It seems weird that DC would try this particular stunt so close to the new movie's release.


This is the thing that struck me, too. Why kill of Bruce in the comics when you've got a very successful movie franchise going? And a Justice League movie in the works?

They're basically telling the audience "Don't bother going to see the films, because we're killing off the character anyway."


It's just the Death of Superman again, folks. That big event coincided with the early days of Lois and Clark and coverage of either helped promote both. Clark was gone for months, with the four "replacement Supermen" in his place.

In either case, the movie-going/TV watching public continues to follow normal patterns. They don't care about the comic books and what's happening in them, at least not for more than a few minutes. They say, "Killing Batman is pretty stupid," then head for the googleplex and lay down their money.

Doing this so close to The Dark Knight is good for Warner Bros. and the associated products. The media will pick up on the storyline and there will be more Batman in the "news."It'll all shake out quickly enough - more quickly than the spider-clones, I hope - and Bruce will be back in place if they have any sense.

Why not a new Batman #1? They gave John Byrne a #1 when he took over Superman and rolled the old numbering over into The Adventures of Superman. It was stupid and they finally fixed the mistake a few years back, but it's precedent and garnered still more press.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:20 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
Leckomaniac wrote:No one is getting anywhere close to "sweaty".


O RLY?

Leckomaniac wrote:first off...you are either stupid or naive

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:20 pm
by The Todd
I can't believe they're going to kill off Bruce Wayne FOREVER!!!!!

:cry:

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:21 pm
by Peven
Pacino86845 wrote:I'll give you five bucks for all your land.


i'll give you 5 bucks, a shiny necklace and a bottle of firewater.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:21 pm
by Pacino86845
Peven wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:I'll give you five bucks for all your land.


i'll give you 5 bucks, a shiny necklace and a bottle of firewater.


Damn it, how do you top THAT!!?? :oops:

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:22 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
Pacino86845 wrote:
Peven wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:I'll give you five bucks for all your land.


i'll give you 5 bucks, a shiny necklace and a bottle of firewater.


Damn it, how do you top THAT!!?? :oops:


CASINO!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:25 pm
by Leckomaniac
DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
Leckomaniac" ]
No one is getting anywhere close to "sweaty".[/quote]

O RLY?

[quote="Leckomaniac wrote:
first off...you are either stupid or naive


But what Nordling doesnt know is that my sweat glands do not work. So score 1 for Lecko. :wink:

But seriously, I do stand by my comment.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:26 pm
by Nordling
You know, if the comics community responded to these dumb plot contrivances with the "Eh" that they all deserve, maybe they wouldn't come up with these dumb plot contrivances. Don't think for a second that DC isn't monitoring threads like this one, feeling out responses. This is AICN, after all, one of the most trafficked entertainment sites on the Internet.

I read threads like these because most of them do the comic publisher's job for me - keep me up to date on the storylines going on in the comics world, and I don't have to buy issue one of their books. It's win for me, lose for them.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:35 pm
by Fried Gold
For someone who doesn't care...you seem to care quite a bit.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:37 pm
by Pacino86845
Nordling doesn't care about Batman comics, but he DOES care about OUR opinions of Batman comics!

And who are we? Why, we're INTERNAUTS!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:38 pm
by DennisMM
I'd appreciate it if we could keep the thread about the even and reactions, not whether someone prefers news releases to reading comics. We already have too many of those pseudo-meta threads, don't we?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:39 pm
by Chairman Kaga
So what if they are monitoring this discussion (adjusts tin foil hat)? What's the benefit to them...

WB Zone Spy: Sir people think we are stupid and know the whole gimmick already.

WB Exec: GREAT!

?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:41 pm
by Leckomaniac
What I think will hurt DC more than anything is people inevitably claiming that DC pulled this stunt because they saw the reaction the Captain America death got. I mean two of the most SIGNIFICANT characters in the history of comics are "killed" off within a year or so. This will NOT turn out well for DC.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:42 pm
by DennisMM
Because you shiftless fanboys will buy it anyway! I haven't bought a Batman comic in years and I'm not starting now!

I did buy the Death of Superman, but I had been buying most of the Superman comics until shortly before that point, anyway. I only stopped because they became tedious. Death perked them up a good bit.

I think you're wrong, Leck, I really do, but I don't know how to argue it beyond what was said. Most Marvelites still don't read the "classic" DC characters in my experience, so there won't be cross-company ill will on the part of the readers.

But WTF do I know?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 pm
by Pacino86845
Ok to get back somewhat on topic, the connection of Batman's death to the "Breaking of the Batman" event is pretty obvious... but why is DC repeating history?

I have to admit, I am of the right age such that when Azrael was around (pre-Batman replacement), I was young enough to be totally into gimmicks and scary, seemingly-permanent things happening to my favorite comic character at the time.

Bane smacking the crap outta Bats really had an impact on me, it was a harrowing thing to see on the comics page. When Azrael took over the new suit looked kinda cool at first, and it was such a glorious time to see him rip into Bane. But very soon thereafter I quit following the Bat-titles altogether, and I've never gone back, even though I later learned that Bruce was back in the "classic" suit.

Point is, I don't think I'm the only one who dropped out of Batman because of the gimmicky fucking-around-with that DC pulled. I don't really care if he dies temporarily or whatever, but wouldn't this do more harm to comics' sales than good?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:45 pm
by Chairman Kaga
DennisMM wrote:Because you shiftless fanboys will buy it anyway!

I haven't bought a main continuity superhero comic in years. I stick to Elseworlds and What If sorts of stories.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:48 pm
by DennisMM
That means you're not a fanboy.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:49 pm
by Chairman Kaga
Good to know.

Back on topic I think Pacino is right this willl hurt the comic in the long run.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:50 pm
by Leckomaniac
DennisMM wrote:Because you shiftless fanboys will buy it anyway! I haven't bought a Batman comic in years and I'm not starting now!

I did buy the Death of Superman, but I had been buying most of the Superman comics until shortly before that point, anyway. I only stopped because they became tedious. Death perked them up a good bit.

I think you're wrong, Leck, I really do, but I don't know how to argue it beyond what was said. Most Marvelites still don't read the "classic" DC characters in my experience, so there won't be cross-company ill will on the part of the readers.

But WTF do I know?


But the thing is people dont NEED to read both companies to have knowledge of Batmans death and Caps death. The average Marvel reader is going to hear about this and go:

"WTF? DC are just trying to capture the same press Marvel got when they killed Cap."

They know the outcome and not the circumstances, but that is enough in this era of message boards. I have a feeling that this criticism/debate will dominate the message boards.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:53 pm
by Chairman Kaga
What they should do in an attempt to shake things up in Batman's world would be to kill off a major adversary. Perhaps leave a mystery to be explored as to if Batman was responsible.