ONE MORE DAY: Love It or Loathe It?

Graphic novels. Weekly rags. The @$$holes.

ONE MORE DAY/BRAND NEW DAY: How do you feel?

Like it.
0
No votes
Not sure what to feel.
0
No votes
Hate it but will continue reading Spider-man.
2
33%
Hate it and will stop reading Spider-man til they undo the events.
4
67%
 
Total votes : 6

ONE MORE DAY: Love It or Loathe It?

Postby Ozymandias on Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:26 am

Starting this topic to get reactions to what I find an insult to Spider-man fans by Marvel and Joe Quesada. I don't understand how they expect people to accept this garbage, to retcon away 20+years of storylines. I can accept ending the marriage but to do it in a way that will have to cause major changes in the Marvel Universe and current storylines. I guess they haven't learned anything in the years since the CLONE SAGA debacle. I'm curious to see if I'm the minority on this, though judging from some of the other boards I've read I'm in the majority.
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Postby Spifftacular SquirrelGirl on Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:34 am

I think it was completely unnecessary.

Honestly, if I wanted to read about a Spider-Man who isn't married and still lives with his Aunt I'd just read Ultimate Spider-Man or Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

The rest of the books could (probably should, I heart Dan Slott) be good but it was just a horrible way to get around to it and I can see why J.M.S would want his name taken off of this.
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Postby DennisMM on Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:50 am

They accomplished what they wanted to do with the Clone story. All it took was alienating the fans again.
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ONE MORE DAY: Hate it ot Love it?

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:57 am

Lame. But much like everything else (including the out come of Civil war, as people fear change), things will be reverted back to normal...


When?


When the sales of the book tank.
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Postby WalterBunny on Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:20 am

Not only do I hate the storyline, but I also hate how late the book's been coming out. This thing should've been wrapped and well over with. December was supposed to have been Dan Slott writing Spidey! And more Dan Slott is a good thing.

I wonder if he regrets quitting She-Hulk for this?
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Postby Leckomaniac on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:08 pm

I can't imagine a single intelligent person admitting to LIKING this story. There are so many moments that just fly in the face of logic and years of the characters history. I can't even begin to list the many ways that this story got it wrong. From the smallest details to the largest this story was a mistake.

This is the worst story I have ever read in my short time reading comics.

To make matters even worse, Joe Q. blatantly lied to the fans numerous times in interviews. When Spidey unmasked he promised fans that there would be no "Crisis" like event to reset the clock. And then in the CBR interview posted today he states that the reason they were able to do the unmasking story was because they KNEW that OMD would reset it. I mean that is behavior that is simply unforgivable.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Yeah he's an asshole, and this story was stupid and unnecessary.
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Postby bluebottle on Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:58 am

I can see why JMS was attracted to it though. To reset the story from 1971 - to even keep Gwen alive... That's a hell of a change.

It explains all the subtle hints JMS has been dropping over the years that Gwen is Peter's true love - he was hoping to re-open that door at the end of his run...

I'm guessing.

Anyway, it's a shame JMS didn't get to do the story he wanted.

I think he's a bit of a pompous, humourless douche, but that Sins Past storyline and OMD both would have been fantastic had he been allowed to write the stories he wanted.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:08 am

Supposedly it's not such a huge retcon but it still sounds stupid.
[quote]When the group of creators decided what “One More Dayâ€
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:15 am

Bluebottle wrote:I can see why JMS was attracted to it though. To reset the story from 1971 - to even keep Gwen alive... That's a hell of a change.

It explains all the subtle hints JMS has been dropping over the years that Gwen is Peter's true love - he was hoping to re-open that door at the end of his run...

I'm guessing.

Anyway, it's a shame JMS didn't get to do the story he wanted.

I think he's a bit of a pompous, humourless douche, but that Sins Past storyline and OMD both would have been fantastic had he been allowed to write the stories he wanted.


I dunno dude. If you're going to make deals with the devil to fix your miserable life, then why not just say, "Fuck it... make it so I was never spiderman." Then you get back May, Ben, Gwen and Peter lives a normal and happy life.
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Postby Fievel on Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:22 am

I haven't read any Spider Man comics since shortly after Peter and Mary Jane were married in the 80's. The thought of a married Spider Man didn't appeal to me, and I moved on to other books. These "reboot" plotlines are weak.
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Postby bluebottle on Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 am

here's JMS' latest argument re: the ending. it's a long read, but it's worth it.

[quote]Having seen Joe's third interview on OMD, I think he raised a lot of fair issues. I think most of it represents accurately our conversations. It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution...concerns not mentioned therein, most probably as an oversight. As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word. (Newsarama Note: this last was in reference to Straczynski’s earlier e-mail mentioned earlier in which he declined a “One More Dayâ€
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:48 am

IPAMPILASH?
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Postby Fried Gold on Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:21 pm

...so Spider-Man's whole existence in the Civil War is pretty much pointless now then.
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Postby Theta on Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:39 pm

I think it's about time Access brought over the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor and cleaned all this shit up.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:55 pm

Poor JMS. They REALLY should have taken his name off the last issue.

And apparently this is the new status quo for Spider-Man.

And how about this bit of info:

"absolutely no one knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Not DareDevil, not the Avengers, not anyone. His identity is truly secret. Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers who was under the mask..

WHAT.THE.FUCK.

They remember he unmasked but they don't remember the face?!?!?!?! Dumbest. Story. Ever.
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Postby DennisMM on Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:59 pm

Instead they thanked him.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:02 pm

Talk about a slap in the face.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:17 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers who was under the mask.


IPAMPILASH!
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:19 pm

Man...I'm not a HUGE Spidey fan and I only rarely read his individual books, but this just sounds horrible...
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:22 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers who was under the mask.


IPAMPILASH!


I think that might be the statement that drives me over the edge. It is just SO preposterous that I find it to be almost...confusing.

So J. Jonah Jameson...the man who was OBSESSED with Spidey and who provided one of the better moments in Civil War #2...he remembers Spidey unmasked, but he just doesn't remember the face underneath it as that of Peter Parker his one time employee?!?!? That is just LUDICROUS. And didn't he unmask at a press conference? So why not just look at the video tape. What about all the pictures?

I mean come on. This is just fucking stupid.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:24 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:
Ribbons wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers who was under the mask.


IPAMPILASH!


I think that might be the statement that drives me over the edge. It is just SO preposterous that I find it to be almost...confusing.

So J. Jonah Jameson...the man who was OBSESSED with Spidey and who provided one of the better moments in Civil War #2...he remembers Spidey unmasked, but he just doesn't remember the face underneath it as that of Peter Parker his one time employee?!?!? That is just LUDICROUS. And didn't he unmask at a press conference? So why not just look at the video tape. What about all the pictures?

I mean come on. This is just fucking stupid.


Well Marvel's answer is "it's magic!" right? Think of it like when Dawn came into the Buffy-verse. That's not to say it's not STUPID...it's really fucking stupid.

I'm with Tony Stark, magic sucks.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:30 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:
Ribbons wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers who was under the mask.


IPAMPILASH!


I think that might be the statement that drives me over the edge. It is just SO preposterous that I find it to be almost...confusing.

So J. Jonah Jameson...the man who was OBSESSED with Spidey and who provided one of the better moments in Civil War #2...he remembers Spidey unmasked, but he just doesn't remember the face underneath it as that of Peter Parker his one time employee?!?!? That is just LUDICROUS. And didn't he unmask at a press conference? So why not just look at the video tape. What about all the pictures?

I mean come on. This is just fucking stupid.


Well Marvel's answer is "it's magic!" right? Think of it like when Dawn came into the Buffy-verse. That's not to say it's not STUPID...it's really fucking stupid.

I'm with Tony Stark, magic sucks.


I pretty much hated the storyline and found it to be totally stupid, BUT I was ready to move on until they released the new status quo image today. I moved passed the whole "we erased his unmasking thing", but why make it so that people remember, but they don't. Of all the shit that makes no sense, is it possible that this makes the least sense? It just opens a huge can of worms that there was no reason to open. They had an easy out, but they totally complicated things for themselves. It is just insane. My mind actually hurts. I really want to hurt someone right now. Where the hell is Herc. This HAS to be all his fault. It has to be.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:33 pm

Leckomaniac wrote: but why make it so that people remember, but they don't. Of all the shit that makes no sense, is it possible that this makes the least sense? It just opens a huge can of worms that there was no reason to open. They had an easy out, but they totally complicated things for themselves.


Oh I'm with you there.

I wonder if it will drive a new obsession from JJJ? It seems to me that KNOWING that he KNEW who Spidey was, but couldn't remember, would be aggravating to him to the point that he would make solving the mystery his sole purpose in life.

Same with Harry, really. Not to mention all of Spidey's other enemies.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:46 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:[
Well Marvel's answer is "it's magic!" right? Think of it like when Dawn came into the Buffy-verse. That's not to say it's not STUPID...it's really fucking stupid.


Except it was totally logical when they revealed what was going on with Dawn.

This is just ALF...

I'll bet they go back on this eventually...
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:47 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:[
Well Marvel's answer is "it's magic!" right? Think of it like when Dawn came into the Buffy-verse. That's not to say it's not STUPID...it's really fucking stupid.


Except it was totally logical when they revealed what was going on with Dawn.

This is just ALF...

I'll bet they go back on this eventually...


heheheh, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.
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Postby DennisMM on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:48 pm

The introduction of Dawn to Buffy involved one plot element. Yes, it touched on Buffy's entire life and the lives of the Scoobies, but it was one bit of magic and it made perfect sense with the reason given in the program. "Brand New Day" just seems convenient. Let's undo everything we wish we hadn't done in the last 20 years. Why didn't they undo the clone?

Is Peter still about 25, or have they somehow rolled back time as well? I'm wondering which stories with him remain in continuity.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:54 pm

guys, you're preaching to the choir here, I was just using Dawn as an example of how magic was used in a different 'verse to change every aspect of reality, memories, physical evidence, etc. I'm not comparing the two with respect to the execution or wisdom from a storytelling perspective.
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Postby instant_karma on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Wow. This sounds like a trainwreck.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:58 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:guys, you're preaching to the choir here, I was just using Dawn as an example of how magic was used in a different 'verse to change every aspect of reality, memories, physical evidence, etc. I'm not comparing the two with respect to the execution or wisdom from a storytelling perspective.


whatever, man.

WHAT EVER.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:04 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:guys, you're preaching to the choir here, I was just using Dawn as an example of how magic was used in a different 'verse to change every aspect of reality, memories, physical evidence, etc. I'm not comparing the two with respect to the execution or wisdom from a storytelling perspective.


whatever, man.

WHAT EVER.


where the hell is Pacino's "punching fist through hat" picture, heheheh.
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Postby DennisMM on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:13 pm

I'm not challenging you, Moo, just riffing. I'll stop.
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Postby so sorry on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:17 pm

wow. that's just.... wow.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:21 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:I can't imagine a single intelligent person admitting to LIKING this story.

:oops:

It's not that I necessarily liked it--even though I did like parts of OMD quite a bit--but that I really, really think the status quo of Brand New Day is where Spider-Man should be. Sure, contemplating the mess this makes of continuity will give you a headache, but this super-streamlined approach with damn fine creative teams on board is what will get me buying Spider-Man comics again.

The only thing that irks me about the switcheroo is the reversal of Peter revealing his identity. I defended it as a ballsy move filled with promise when it first happened, and to see it wiped away like this kinda sucks. But... I understand the move and think Joe Q made the right call from the EIC chair.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:22 pm

DennisMM wrote:The introduction of Dawn to Buffy involved one plot element. Yes, it touched on Buffy's entire life and the lives of the Scoobies, but it was one bit of magic and it made perfect sense with the reason given in the program. "Brand New Day" just seems convenient. Let's undo everything we wish we hadn't done in the last 20 years. Why didn't they undo the clone?

Is Peter still about 25, or have they somehow rolled back time as well? I'm wondering which stories with him remain in continuity.


I remember reading somewhere that Peter is "in his mid 20's still. He worked as a teacher briefly (and he remembers that), but now is back working for the Bugle."

Something to that effect.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:30 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:I can't imagine a single intelligent person admitting to LIKING this story.

:oops:

It's not that I necessarily liked it--even though I did like parts of OMD quite a bit--but that I really, really think the status quo of Brand New Day is where Spider-Man should be. Sure, contemplating the mess this makes of continuity will give you a headache, but this super-streamlined approach with damn fine creative teams on board is what will get me buying Spider-Man comics again.

The only thing that irks me about the switcheroo is the reversal of Peter revealing his identity. I defended it as a ballsy move filled with promise when it first happened, and to see it wiped away like this kinda sucks. But... I understand the move and think Joe Q made the right call from the EIC chair.


I don't know. First, I am not entirely sold on the fact that this change needed to happen. You are convinced, but I am not. If the Spidey you want is single and obsessed with MJ than go read Ultimate Spider-Man or Spidey Loves MJ. Like it or not, the Marvel U Spidey was supposed to be a bit more grown up. He fulfilled his destiny and married MJ...he became the hero he always wanted to be and he made it to the Avengers squad. He took a stand and unmasked...he took another stand and he stood up to Tony.

What I hate is this...the Marvel U Peter Parker was becoming one hell of a man. He really was. And if you can't find interesting stories to tell with that kind of individual than you are just crazy.

Second, there were several easier ways to tell this story. JMS had one way. Hell I read a suggestion from some dude on Newsarama who posted an outline for an idea he had that was poignant as hell and would have accomplished something similar.

To me, this was something that was unforgivable. I can't imagine a more ham fisted way to handle a character. I liked who Peter Parker was becoming.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:59 pm

word.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:04 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:I don't know. First, I am not entirely sold on the fact that this change needed to happen. You are convinced, but I am not. If the Spidey you want is single and obsessed with MJ than go read Ultimate Spider-Man or Spidey Loves MJ. Like it or not, the Marvel U Spidey was supposed to be a bit more grown up. He fulfilled his destiny and married MJ...he became the hero he always wanted to be and he made it to the Avengers squad. He took a stand and unmasked...he took another stand and he stood up to Tony.

What I hate is this...the Marvel U Peter Parker was becoming one hell of a man. He really was. And if you can't find interesting stories to tell with that kind of individual than you are just crazy.

See, I think you pretty perfectly lay out the arguments both against and for the retcon, namely that Peter was becoming a grown-ass man. Sure, that's awesome for a readership who's been following him for a long while or who's maybe a little bit older and can relate, but Marvel's bread and butter is young kids who are looking to read stories about guys (close enough) like them who just happen to have superpowers. OMD/BND resets 616 Peter as close to that model as possible. And while, yes, there is always Ultimate Spider-Man (the best Spider-book going, IMO) to direct younger readers to, post-BND it'll be much easier to seque young readers from 616 Spidey into other related books like New Avengers.

Leckomaniac wrote:Second, there were several easier ways to tell this story. JMS had one way. Hell I read a suggestion from some dude on Newsarama who posted an outline for an idea he had that was poignant as hell and would have accomplished something similar.

Yeah, I'm with you here. That outline (MJ's life vs. the marriage) sounded like a much better story, but overall I think OMD was about as well-told as this story was ever going to be.

Ultimately, I respect Joe Q for making the hard call. Sure, it doesn't work perfectly, but if you step back and squint at it just a bit... BND really is classic Spider-Man.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:11 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:guys, you're preaching to the choir here, I was just using Dawn as an example of how magic was used in a different 'verse to change every aspect of reality, memories, physical evidence, etc. I'm not comparing the two with respect to the execution or wisdom from a storytelling perspective.


whatever, man.

WHAT EVER.


where the hell is Pacino's "punching fist through hat" picture, heheheh.


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Postby Fried Gold on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:13 pm

Where the hell is that picture of Pacino punching a hole in spacetime?
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:14 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:guys, you're preaching to the choir here, I was just using Dawn as an example of how magic was used in a different 'verse to change every aspect of reality, memories, physical evidence, etc. I'm not comparing the two with respect to the execution or wisdom from a storytelling perspective.


whatever, man.

WHAT EVER.


where the hell is Pacino's "punching fist through hat" picture, heheheh.


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Thank you sir.

HEY BLUEBOTTLE!

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on you!

i don't know what that means. :oops:

spider-man sucks now.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:18 pm

Fried Gold wrote:Where the hell is that picture of Pacino punching a hole in spacetime?


It disappeared in the tear. *wonders what that picture would look like*
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:19 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:HEY BLUEBOTTLE!

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on you!

i don't know what that means. :oops:

spider-man sucks now.


Hey MOO!

i agree.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:42 pm

Don't listen to Whedo. He's a marvel plant. I mean seriously, this storyline was tragic and fucking fuck. Me and bulbittle could have come up with something vastly more interesting and logical after a 3 minute IM conversation...

...if he still talked to me via IMs.

:'-(
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:53 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Don't listen to Whedo. He's a marvel plant.

The checks are going to come any day now, or so they tell me. Any day now...

I think the execution has been hit-and-miss on some of the big stories of the past four, five years, but overall I like the "big picture" choices that have been made. Decreasing the number of mutants, destabilizing the Marvel Universe and returning Spider-Man to his more "tradiaitonal" form are three really strong, really bold choices, IMO.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:27 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:...if he still talked to me via IMs.

:'-(


I've been busy!!!

(i miss you too)
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:34 am

MasterWhedon wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:Don't listen to Whedo. He's a marvel plant.

The checks are going to come any day now, or so they tell me. Any day now...

I think the execution has been hit-and-miss on some of the big stories of the past four, five years, but overall I like the "big picture" choices that have been made. Decreasing the number of mutants, destabilizing the Marvel Universe and returning Spider-Man to his more "tradiaitonal" form are three really strong, really bold choices, IMO.


I don't disagree with you. The difference is, all those other big events had a compelling story and logic behind them. OMD was just rank crap.
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Postby DennisMM on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:59 am

Except that they still haven't told us Tony Stark is a mind-controlled Skrull clone LMD.
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Postby Fawst on Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:13 am

Wow... I don't read Spider-Man, haven't really ever read it. I always thought it was the soap opera of comics. He has a great rogues gallery, but damn... boring. The only time I ever enjoyed Spidey was during Todd MacFarlane's run before Spawn.

This may be the worst piece of writing EVAR. So basically only SOME things have changed, not everything? Why? They pick and choose what is still considered canon, and remove everything else? Fucking weak, man. Fucking weak.

But at least they're keeping with the soap opera theme. This is the kind of shit they would pull on something like Days of Our Lives.
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Postby Chilli on Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:29 am

Damn. Whedon makes a good call, you other guys make a good call. Gaah - damn you ambiguity.
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