A Song of Ice and Fire

[Carolian]

I've seen several others mentioning these incredible books, so I thought it might be a good idea to start a new topic. I've read the first three books, and loooooooooove them, passionately even, but I've yet to pick up "A Feast for Crows". Still, I've got a lot of faith in Martin; it CAN'T be anything but brilliant... can it?

One thing's for sure: he isn't afraid to slaughter his main cast. The first three books are fucking BLOODBATHS.

[thomasgaffney]

Carolian, I'm not familiar with these books. Can you give me a spoiler-free synopsis? I'm always looking for something new to read.

[Carolian]

Basically, they're Martin's retelling of the Wars of the Roses, when the York and Lancaster families fought for the throne of England, only set in a fantasy world. The continent is split up into various families all trying to gain the throne, including the family of the king's wife. What makes matters even more complicated is that the son of the old king, who basically had to flee for his life to another continent, is trying to gather a group of horse-warriors (think Mongols, not centaurs, heh) so he can take back his throne. AND, to the far, far north, there's a Wall made entirely of ice... and a whole lot of freaky, freaky things living beyond it.

I'm sorry if that's a bit jumbled, but I tried as hard as I could not to put in any spoilers, heh. These books are extremely violent, full of sex and cursing, but what really makes them brilliant (to me) is Martin's writing. He takes a vast, vast number of characters, writing chapters from each point of view, and even if he's set a character up as pure evil, you find yourself sympathizing with them once you read from their point of view. There aren't a whole lot of pure villains; just ambitious people seeking power at any cost.

[thomasgaffney]

Sounds pretty cool. Thanks for the info (no, it didn't sound jumbled). I'll try to check them out (I'm just about done The Amber Spyglass) and let you know what I think.

[tfactor]

carolian you have to bare in mind when creating new threads people might not know immediately what your talking about, so by supplying links pictures and a spoiler free synopsis you create interest in the topic

This way not only the people who are firmiliar with the material can comment on it but the general public as well

Also whenever possible create a poll

btw your avatar is tits

[Mimekiller]

Im in the middle of the fourth book and while some may complain that martin does not put in some fan favorite POV. He does supply a healty amount of entertaining new ones.

Oh and for you not in the know, Martin does not write in chapters he seperates his books with Character names and each segment is the point of view of that character. If that makes any sense, Oh and Kudods to carolin for doing a infinite better job at descrbing the books than I ever could.

[snapcase]

Barring Robin Hobb George RR Martin is the finest fantasywriter working today. I'm in the middle of re-reading the first three books so I can read vol. four with a clear memory of characters and events. I can't but admire the way he intertwines narratives of different characters and how he can change the reades view of a character in a single chapter. When he suddenly wrote from the kingslayers POV it turnes my whole readingexperience upside down. I haven't rea FOC yet but I guess he'll do the same with the Cersei chapters.

[Ouranou]

Cersei's chapters really just show how incredibly stupid and self absorbed she is.

[Neya]

I havent read these, but my friends that have drone on and on about how good they are. I need to check them out, but am trying to hold off until the series is closer to completion (waiting for two other series' to be completed is awful, dont wanna add a third to the list).

From what I understand, Martin's taking his sweet time writing these too.

[Carolian]

From what I understand, Martin's taking his sweet time writing these too.

Oh, Lord, yes. It feels like the wait for the newest book was decades long. It really doesn't look like the end is in sight, either.

Honestly? You'd probably be better off just jumping in, because it could be another six or seven years (and that's being generous) before the series is finished.

[geekfencer]

From what I understand, Martin's taking his sweet time writing these too.

Oh, Lord, yes. It feels like the wait for the newest book was decades long. It really doesn't look like the end is in sight, either.

Honestly? You'd probably be better off just jumping in, because it could ber another six or seven years (and that's being generous) before the series is finished.

It definitely will be that long as Martin, on his "This is not a blog" blog page had stated before FOC was released that with the writing/splitting of FOC the number of volumes has increased to 7 from the original 4 he planned. So if figuring an average of 1 every 2 years...yep 6 or 7 years is about right.

[brainiac]

*I can't talk about this series without spoilers!*

We need a spoilers thread on this topic as I would like to debate points of interest in the books -- who done what to whom, where is s/he now and what will happen next?, who is redeemable and who has lost his soul, and will there be vengence for the Red Wedding! (I want to kill those bastards myself!)

[Neya]

I went against what I said above and began reading this series. Great stuff but good lord it's depressing. Very dark and ruthless, definately not the kind of fantasy-ish Im accustomed to, but a worthy read. I should have the first book clocked away sometime today (ahh God bless ebooks and slow work days).

[Carolian]

Yeah, I was pretty shocked when I picked up the first book. The tone is so vastly different from any other fantasy I've read, heh.

Honestly? It gets more depressing as it goes along. You're in for quite the ride.

[brainiac]

Ok..I'm 200 pages in to FoC and I am enjoying it.

Martin writes a bunch of what I call "to and fro"...a character goes here then goes there then here again and over to another place... but, he does have everyone chatting a lot which I like.

Jamie, Cersie, and Brienne seems to be the big topics in this book.

And I need more maps!

[Ouranou]

Yes. When everyone in the book goes to places not on the map it's time for a new map...

[Carolian]

OK, I'm re-reading A CLASH OF KINGS now, and I had a question for those who have read/are reading the books. What character's POV do you enjoy the most? Whose chapters?

For me, it has to be Tyrion Lannister. I looooove the chapters from his POV. Frankly, he's a fascinating character altogether; a Lannister through and through, but with an undercurrent of nobility. Not to mention an awesome penchant for mockery and sarcasm.

Other than Tyrion, I'd say Jon Snow. His growth as a character through the books (the first three, anyway; I still haven't read the fourth) is so well-written and well-executed.

Martin really is a genius.

[brainiac]

My favorite character? I came to the series by reading the story in IASFM about Dany Stormborn so she is one of my favorites.

After her, I like the whole Stark family and especially Robb... yes, I even like Sansa!

And we do need a new map! Where is Duskendale? And CrackClaw? and the Green Blood?

Ask and ye shall receive a map:
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Graphics/im_map-westeros-color.jpg

[JackKnight]

One of my fave series as well. As for the first book, I agree that Tyrion's pov is the best. In later books I'd be split between Tyrion and Jaime. I think Carolian said it best when he said there were no villains, just people seeking power.

Ooh. Almost forgot. The chapters from the pov of the Onion Knight were excellent as well.

I must say tho, that I absolutely completely hated Catelyn and every chapter from her pov just made me grind my teeth at that bitch.

Still one of the greatest series going today.

[dark wesley]

ive not read these yet, but this forum has piqued my interest, so i think ill check them out.
cheers!

[Carolian]

Oh shit! Screams of bliss!

A Song of Ice and Fire HBO series?!?!

That's worthy of a bump.

[Peven]

Oh shit! Screams of bliss!

A Song of Ice and Fire HBO series?!?!

That's worthy of a bump.

that is a great way for epic sci-fi/fantasy to be handled. a network like HBO with no censor constraints and a desire to produce quality programming, and a full season to work with per book.

[Wolfpack]

A good consolation prize considering there won't be a third season of Rome.

[brainiac]

I gotta tell ya, this makes my day! I might even have to
subscribe to HBO which I haven't had for quite a few years.

And then there are the DVDs of each season.

[Wolfpack]

"Lots of sex, violence, and political intrigue?" Viewers of Rome will feel right at home.

[pomeroy]

All 9 of them.

[Wolfpack]

I'm reading A Game Of Thrones by George R. Martin - in anticipation of the HBO Series of "A Song of Ice and Fire".

[The Todd]

I'm reading A Game Of Thrones by George R. Martin - in anticipation of the HBO Series of "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Awesome, awesome books. I'm dying for the fifth book to come out. I still think Game of Thrones is my favorite of the four so far.....

[Lady Sheridan]

That reminds me, I need to pick those up...

I've been reading American Gods...H@arry Potter came along or I would have finished it, really digging it.

[Wolfpack]

I'm reading A Game Of Thrones by George R. Martin - in anticipation of the HBO Series of "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Awesome, awesome books. I'm dying for the fifth book to come out. I still think Game of Thrones is my favorite of the four so far.....

I was a George R. Martin virgin before I started reading. The way things are going, I may travel down to Borders to get the other three.

[minstrel]

I was a George R. Martin virgin before I started reading.

Um, wasn't everyone?

[stereosforgeeks]

I'm reading A Game Of Thrones by George R. Martin - in anticipation of the HBO Series of "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Awesome, awesome books. I'm dying for the fifth book to come out. I still think Game of Thrones is my favorite of the four so far.....

I was a George R. Martin virgin before I started reading. The way things are going, I may travel down to Borders to get the other three.

Do you think they will make a good TV show?

[The Todd]

I'm reading A Game Of Thrones by George R. Martin - in anticipation of the HBO Series of "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Awesome, awesome books. I'm dying for the fifth book to come out. I still think Game of Thrones is my favorite of the four so far.....

I was a George R. Martin virgin before I started reading. The way things are going, I may travel down to Borders to get the other three.

I highly recommend them all. Once you get into them, you'll want to keep reading. The fifth book (A DANCE WITH DRAGONS) isn't going to be out for quite a while though. The characters are so rich and entertaining.

Do you think they will make a good TV show?

Hell yes. Assuming they are on cable (I believe HBO is going to make it) and they keep in all the blood and violence. Cursing and sex. And DRAGONS! Oh, and they better pay up for some good SFX.....

[stereosforgeeks]

Do you think they will make a good TV show?

Hell yes. Assuming they are on cable (I believe HBO is going to make it) and they keep in all the blood and violence. Cursing and sex. And DRAGONS! Oh, and they better pay up for some good SFX.....

Yeah it's HBO and hopefully they can do the story justice. I'll watch anything on HBO so I'll definitely be watching when it comes on.

[Wolfpack]

I was a George R. Martin virgin before I started reading.

Um, wasn't everyone?

Well, I meant before I started this session, I hadn't read anything written by George R. Martin, "Song Of Ice and Fire" or otherwise. It was a painless deflowering and not a drop of blood was on the sheets.

Do you think they will make a good TV show?

Oh yeah. There is a lot of depth for the writers to work with. This show will be just as epic as the books.

By the way, I thought there was a winky ban in effect.

[Wolfpack]

Now reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin - book 2 of A Song of Fire and Ice.

[thomasgaffney]

Now reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin - book 2 of A Song of Fire and Ice.

Excellent series. I'm dying, waiting for #5 to come out. He's putting excerpts on his website, but there is still no release date in sight...

[Wolfpack]

Now reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin - book 2 of A Song of Fire and Ice.

Excellent series. I'm dying, waiting for #5 to come out. He's putting excerpts on his website, but there is still no release date in sight...

He said he'd post an announcement as soon as he finished the final manuscript. Myself, I can wait. I still have books 3 and 4 to read before I get to #5.

[thomasgaffney]

Now reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin - book 2 of A Song of Fire and Ice.

Excellent series. I'm dying, waiting for #5 to come out. He's putting excerpts on his website, but there is still no release date in sight...

He said he'd post an announcement as soon as he finished the final manuscript. Myself, I can wait. I still have books 3 and 4 to read before I get to #5.

Book 4 is good, but a bit of a disappointment. When the publisher asked him to split the story into books 4 & 5, he decided to, instead of writing incomplete chapters for all the characters, write complete chapters for half the characters. So Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Tyrion are a few of the characters who don't make appearances in book 4.

[Wolfpack]

A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin. I loved the first two books of this series, and it seems the trend shall continue with number three.

[Bob Samonkey]

I am finally reading the Ice and Fire Trilogy...

[Ribbons]

One thing's for sure: he isn't afraid to slaughter his main cast. The first three books are fucking BLOODBATHS.

You ain't kidding. BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

So I just recently started A Game of Thrones, which is the first book in this series. I'm pretty close to the beginning, although I can't say where exactly (the chapters don't have numbers, just characters' names). Anyway it's most excellent. It probably helps that I don't know anything about the actual War of the Roses, but I'm excited to see where the story goes.

[Ribbons]

Just finished A Game of Thrones. Fantastic book. I was a little wary at first because I'm not really a big fan of fantasy novels (I think most of them are lame rip-offs of Tolkien), and the author's pen name -- "George RR Martin" -- did little to encourage me. But right from the beginning, the story totally won me over. Most of the drama is human, with complex characters, great dialogue, and a healthy dollop of sex and violence. I found myself actually getting frustrated with the douchetacular betrayals and political assassinations -- which I think is a good thing. Anyway I highly recommend this to anyone looking for a fantasy book to read, or a book in general, and I can't wait to start the next one.

[TonyWilson]

So I'm either going to buy the first book of this series or Dan Simmons' Hyperion, which would other Zoners recommend I go for first?

[Ribbons]

This one! (Although I haven't read Hyperion)

[TonyWilson]

Ha! Cheers Ribbons I went for A Game Of Thrones as this thread is pretty damn rapturous about it, but I was bothered by you saying you got frustrated with some of the politicking in the book, even though you said it was a good thing.

[TonyWilson]

Literally just finished A Game of Thrones.

I cannot believe how great the book is, just astonishingly good and the final chapter with Danaerys in particular is breathtaking. Glad I got the second one to read straight away.

[TonyWilson]

I found myself actually getting frustrated with the douchetacular betrayals and political assassinations -- which I think is a good thing.

Indeed.

Joffrey you sadistic, spoiled, fucking brat! Eddard getting the chop was what did it for me, did anyone else think that when Arya didn't see it happen it was because there was going to be a twist coming later? Even when Bran had the dream I was still unbeliving, then Rickon jumps out of the tomb and, well yeh, holy crap. Martin is brilliant at juggling all the characters and letting the world unfold in a way that feels natural but still keeps you firmly on top of who everyone is and where everything is happening. I enjoyed this book far more than any of Tolkien's stuff, well when I was akid and read The Hobbit and LOTR I loved them but as an adult, reading them compared to Game Of Thrones they're far too long winded and Hippyish.

[Ribbons]

Yeah, for a split second I thought that maybe Martin was pulling the wool over our eyes with the execution, but then as the next chapter went on I slowly realized that Eddard wasn't coming back (besides as a head on a pike ).

And yeah, Danaerys scared the crap out of me by the end of the last chapter. It'll be interesting to see how both the warring kingdoms and the newly-resurgent supernatural creatures (the dragons, and the White Walkers beyond the Wall) end up clashing in later installments. I've heard several people say A Feast for Crows (the 4th novel in the series) is their favorite, but that's a long way off, and with all the upheaval that's already happened, it's hard to imagine what the landscape will look like by then.

Favorite characters, Tony? I'd have to say it's a toss-up between Arya and Tyrion for me.

[TonyWilson]

Yeah Arya and Tyrion are the best characters (Arya learning to be a water dancer and her discovery of the Dragon skeletons and the two men plotting treason is where the book started to get great, it's such a typical set of plot points in a way, but Martin does it deftly and makes it his own, though I also think Jon Snow/The Wall and Danaerys/The Khal/Dragons have the most gripping scenes.
Agreed on how crazy it gets and how the Kingdom is brought into chaos. I really don't know how it's all going to play out with so many competing and ruthless parties on the rise.

Unless you're already into reading something else I'd urge you to get "A Clash of Kings" quite soon as it plunges you in at the deep end and it's helpful to have a good memory for what exactly is going on.