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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:44 pm
by Maui
I will be submerging myself in Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy:

The Golden Compass
The Subtle Knife
The Amber Spyglass

I had a most enjoyable time in the young reader section today of B&N. Alot of childhood memories came wafting back: Black Beauty, Little Women, Gulliver's Travels, Little House on the Prarie, Anne of Green Gables, Amelia Bedelia, Mouse Tales - wow! I felt like a kid again and I really don't mind revisiting some of these children's classics.

Ramble over.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:05 pm
by Ribbons
Yeah, a trip to the young reader section in Barnes & Noble is always like stepping into a way-back machine. I see a lot of books I haven't read for years plastered all over the shelves (and sometimes painted on the walls!). Hope you like His Dark Materials; I haven't read it, but I'll probably get around to it one of these days. Also, while you were in the young reader neighborhood, you should have picked up King Dork!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:24 pm
by Maui
Ribbons wrote:Yeah, a trip to the young reader section in Barnes & Noble is always like stepping into a way-back machine. I see a lot of books I haven't read for years plastered all over the shelves (and sometimes painted on the walls!). Hope you like His Dark Materials; I haven't read it, but I'll probably get around to it one of these days. Also, while you were in the young reader neighborhood, you should have picked up King Dork!


Indeed Ribbons, indeed! I saw many I skipped as a child too :( for whatever reason. I might just be spending more time in the kidlet section with the stuffed toys and the old classics. I'm in that kinda mode. Read up on King Dork - looks intriguing. He dissects Catcher in the Rye, eh?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:28 pm
by Ribbons
Maui wrote:He dissects Catcher in the Rye, eh?


Oh yeah, there's a lot of snark at Catcher's expense in there. I get the sense that Portman had a bad experience with that book in high school.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:27 pm
by Maui
Ribbons wrote:
Maui wrote:He dissects Catcher in the Rye, eh?


Oh yeah, there's a lot of snark at Catcher's expense in there. I get the sense that Portman had a bad experience with that book in high school.


I'll likely pick it up - thanks for the recommendation.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:42 pm
by Maui
I just finished The Golden Compass. I'm now reading The Subtle Knife.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:46 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Maui wrote:I just finished The Golden Compass. I'm now reading The Subtle Knife.


What did you think Maui?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:48 pm
by Maui
I rather enjoyed it. Definitely ready for the movie now. :) I didn't find it slow, as you mentioned. I thought it moved at a good pace, as well it had to setup the history, the church, the dust, etc. for the other 2 books.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:52 pm
by The Vicar
The ads for this looked good, although seemed a bit Narnia-ish looking.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:53 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Maui wrote:I rather enjoyed it. Definitely ready for the movie now. :) I didn't find it slow, as you mentioned. I thought it moved at a good pace, as well it had to setup the history, the church, the dust, etc. for the other 2 books.


I dunno it just took awhile for me to get into it. The story really picks up in the second and third books and i couldnt stop reading them.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:56 pm
by Maui
Yes, definitely has a Narnia feel to it - Compass is a fantasy involving children, animals that talk, etc. which is very similar to Narnia.

As for the bears I dunno. They don't look too real to me.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:16 pm
by Nordling
Those books just didn't take for me, and now that the film has apparently cut out all the religious themes, I don't think I'll be seeing it.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:21 pm
by Maui
They have? That's an integral part of the book.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:24 pm
by Nordling
Yeah, I know. I don't see the point.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:25 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Nordling wrote:Yeah, I know. I don't see the point.


Seems strange with Pullmans involvement that he would allow that.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:30 pm
by Nordling
Well, the Catholic League is going nuts about the film, claiming it spreads atheism among kids. And since the film excised all the religious themes (or changed them so that they weren't religious), they're saying that the film will push people towards the books, which they probably will to some extent. I guess that's why Pullman's fine with it.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:01 pm
by Fawst
Yah, I wrote about that in the official thread. Nice rant regarding spoilers (the Foxnews.com article about GC being a "stealth attack" by Atheists gave away the whole fucking thing, ending of the novels included). Or maybe I was just bitching, I forget now.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:07 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
Fawst wrote:the Foxnews.com article about GC being a "stealth attack" by Atheists gave away the whole fucking thing, ending of the novels included


A The Golden Compass: DOA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:37 pm
by The Vicar
Sounds like a real cockup in process here.
Stealth attack by atheists?
Think I'll give this one a miss on general principles.

Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Or another "kids saving someone's world" film.

Narnia, Bridge to Terabitcha ( sp) and now this?
Ergh.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:54 pm
by minstrel
The Vicar wrote:Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Ergh.


Image


:wink:

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:57 pm
by Fawst
The Vicar wrote:Sounds like a real cockup in process here.
Stealth attack by atheists?
Think I'll give this one a miss on general principles.

Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Or another "kids saving someone's world" film.

Narnia, Bridge to Terabitcha ( sp) and now this?
Ergh.


Whooooa... Bridge to Terabithia (which I didn't see, but I read it, and according to all reviews, it is a pretty great adaptation) has nothing to do with talking animals/saving the world.

Vicar, the reason for the stealth attack comments is because the HDM trilogy is written as an opponent to the Narnia series, which was very pro-Christian. This is very ANTI-Christian/religion. They are bitching that kids will go out in droves to read these after seeing the movie and "unsuspectingly be assaulted" with atheistic themes. In other words, be presented with a different point of view than they may have been brainwashed with since birth (just sayin...). Obviously free-thinking is too much for a kid to handle :wink:

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:06 pm
by The Vicar
minstrel wrote:
The Vicar wrote:Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Ergh.


Image


:wink:


Aw fuck........

To be fair, I don't consider minstrel & his verbose squirrels to be in the same boat as cinematic tripe - brainless as it sounds, whenever one of Minstrels minions tries to fling himself under my tires, I find myself shouting "goddammit Minstrel! What the hell are you thinking?" and swerve mightily to avoid splashing one of his relatives all over the tarmac.

And you know I loved the singing squirrel in that car ad.
Shameless sniveling over........ :oops:

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:10 pm
by The Vicar
Fawst wrote:
The Vicar wrote:Sounds like a real cockup in process here.
Stealth attack by atheists?
Think I'll give this one a miss on general principles.

Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Or another "kids saving someone's world" film.

Narnia, Bridge to Terabitcha ( sp) and now this?
Ergh.


Whooooa... Bridge to Terabithia (which I didn't see, but I read it, and according to all reviews, it is a pretty great adaptation) has nothing to do with talking animals/saving the world.

Vicar, the reason for the stealth attack comments is because the HDM trilogy is written as an opponent to the Narnia series, which was very pro-Christian. This is very ANTI-Christian/religion. They are bitching that kids will go out in droves to read these after seeing the movie and "unsuspectingly be assaulted" with atheistic themes. In other words, be presented with a different point of view than they may have been brainwashed with since birth (just sayin...). Obviously free-thinking is too much for a kid to handle :wink:


Very interesting.
Very.
I may have to check this out on general principles.
Thanks for the clarification, amigo.
I mean it.
I have to stand with the people who believe that children should be using their minds instead of surrendering their individuality to the greater god of
"we know what's best for you."

Which ain't ever the truth.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:22 pm
by stereosforgeeks
The books are good reads Vic and as stated the themes presented are worthwhile for children as well as adults.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:26 pm
by Leckomaniac
minstrel wrote:
The Vicar wrote:Not a huge fan of talking animals.
Ergh.


Image


:wink:



NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VICAR FOR FAVORITE ZONER!!!!!!! IT MUST BE!!!!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:41 pm
by The Vicar
Besides, I've never considered Minstrel to be a talking animal.....more like a highly evolved squirrel-like life form......as opposed to those wee wankers who keep trying to fling themselves beneath my tires.....




and thus the groveling begins.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:05 am
by Maui
The Subtle Knife

I'm digging this read just as much as the Golden Compass.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:09 am
by thomasgaffney
Maui wrote:The Subtle Knife

I'm digging this read just as much as the Golden Compass.


Awesome trilogy!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:11 am
by Maui
thomasgaffney wrote:
Maui wrote:The Subtle Knife

I'm digging this read just as much as the Golden Compass.


Awesome trilogy!


Yes, it certainly is. I'm averaging about 2-3 days on each book. They are difficult to put down. :D

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:15 am
by thomasgaffney
Maui wrote:Yes, it certainly is. I'm averaging about 2-3 days on each book. They are difficult to put down. :D


Yeah, a friend recommended them to me and I was done in about a week. I can't wait to see the first book on the big screen. (But that's another thread...)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:21 am
by Maui
thomasgaffney wrote:Yeah, a friend recommended them to me and I was done in about a week. I can't wait to see the first book on the big screen. (But that's another thread...)


I'm dearly hoping that Compass will be successful so that they can do vol 2 and vol 3 on the big screen as well.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:25 am
by thomasgaffney
Maui wrote:
thomasgaffney wrote:Yeah, a friend recommended them to me and I was done in about a week. I can't wait to see the first book on the big screen. (But that's another thread...)


I'm dearly hoping that Compass will be successful so that they can do vol 2 and vol 3 on the big screen as well.


Agreed. But I don't have high hopes if they keep trying to remove all references to religion.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:30 am
by Maui
thomasgaffney wrote:Agreed. But I don't have high hopes if they keep trying to remove all references to religion.


Well this is a real bone of contention for me. How they can possibly do this to the story.

It's like taking Hogwarts out of a Harry Potter movie. Slight exaggeration, but still - geesh!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:20 pm
by Maui
Well I've been flying thru Pullman's His Dark Materials. Just finished 'The Subtle Knife' - now onto 'The Amber Spyglass'.

I simply adore these books!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:24 pm
by tapehead
I would love to hear your thoughts when you're done - it would be great to get some discussion on the books going again before I see the movie.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:33 pm
by Maui
tapehead wrote:I would love to hear your thoughts when you're done - it would be great to get some discussion on the books going again before I see the movie.


Oh most definitely. Spyglass appears to be the largest of the vols. - so it will likely take me a few days then I'll go put my 2 cents in!

Thx Tapes! :)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:35 pm
by tapehead
yeah - a BOTM thing for these (discussion-wise, not reading-wise) would be ace to do at some point - I know a lot of people here have read them already.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:40 pm
by Maui
Well I certainly hope Compass does well at the box office - that will no doubt determine if Subtle Knife and Spyglass hit the big screen.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:36 pm
by Maui
200+ pages into The Amber Spyglass. This clearly is the superior book of the 3 volumes.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:16 pm
by Lord Voldemoo
It's time for me to rebuild some geek cred, eh?

I'm going to finally join the masses and pick up Golden Compass. I enjoy reading books just before I see the adapted film so I can bitch and moan with the rest of the fanboys... :lol:

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:11 am
by Maui
Lord Voldemoo wrote:It's time for me to rebuild some geek cred, eh?

I'm going to finally join the masses and pick up Golden Compass. I enjoy reading books just before I see the adapted film so I can bitch and moan with the rest of the fanboys... :lol:



Read them all though Moo. The entire trilogy: His Dark Materials.

I'm just about done with the final book and they are all outstanding.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:47 pm
by DinoDeLaurentiis
Reposting from a the Movie Review thread, eh?

so sorry wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
Maui wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
tapehead wrote:
LaDracul wrote:What a Catholic reviewer says about it.

So my verdict is MAYBE I'll see it. Maybe. Though I still say this Pullman guy is just pushing his ideals on people.


Seriously LD, what's the difference between Pullman writing 'His Dark Materials' and CS Lewis Writing the 'Narnia' books? Everyone is informed by their own ideology, that's not to say the audience of a book of film can't think for themselves and accept or reject the content they find within, surely?

I think you should hold up on thinking anything about Pullman until you've actually read the books or seen the movies. That way, your opinion will be an informed one, right?


Actually this is getting at the heart of the books, no? Pullman wants us to be informed intelligent individuals able to make our own choices.


Exactly SFG! Sorta like most things in life, you know?


You can tell when he was writing he was thinking about the types of discussions we are having here and just reeling in agony on people insistence not to seek their own truths through knowledge. This doesnt really discount theisms per se but rather says you should make educated decisions and not just follow blindly.


This discussion is probably headed into a direction seperate from "Movie Rewiew". But I thought I'd chime in and politely disagree with both of you!
From everything I've read about Pullman, his intent wasn't to tell us to open our eyes to new ways of thinking about religion (as sfg suggests above).

He is (militantly?) athiest. He isn't just telling you to think for yourself, he's telling you that there is no god. Period. Read a few interviews with him and you'll find that he really looks down upon the mere thought of a higher being.
Now what this has to do with the movie... can't really say. I'm sure that its been watered down to the point where his raving anti-religious spin is almost inpercievable on film.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:54 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Sorry Dino I had already replied in the Movie Review thread.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:55 pm
by stereosforgeeks
stereosforgeeks wrote:
so sorry wrote:This discussion is probably headed into a direction seperate from "Movie Rewiew". But I thought I'd chime in and politely disagree with both of you!
From everything I've read about Pullman, his intent wasn't to tell us to open our eyes to new ways of thinking about religion (as sfg suggests above).

He is (militantly?) athiest. He isn't just telling you to think for yourself, he's telling you that there is no god. Period. Read a few interviews with him and you'll find that he really looks down upon the mere thought of a higher being.
Now what this has to do with the movie... can't really say. I'm sure that its been watered down to the point where his raving anti-religious spin is almost inpercievable on film.


I wasn't saying he believed that or didnt mean to imply it anyway. I just meant to say that the idea of seeking knowledge and understanding for yourself can coexist with a belief in an "authority."

He does get into stating the ideas you say in the later books, but again I felt like the main theme was the one i presented. Or the one I latched onto the most anyway.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:10 pm
by so sorry
stereosforgeeks wrote:I wasn't saying he believed that or didnt mean to imply it anyway. I just meant to say that the idea of seeking knowledge and understanding for yourself can coexist with a belief in an "authority."

He does get into stating the ideas you say in the later books, but again I felt like the main theme was the one i presented. Or the one I latched onto the most anyway.


That's a fine idea to take away from the books. But again, everything I've read* about Pullman's view(s) is contrary to the "coexist" part of your statement. Pullman=NO religion whatsoever.





*I haven't delved deep into any kind of research on this... I read the trilogy last year, was basically bored to tears with it, and did some minimal online search on Pullman and his ideas.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 pm
by DaleTremont
Even if Pullman has declared himself to be an atheist, there is a spiritual ethos in HDM. It's not as if the whole way through the book he was subversively hammering in "There is no god. There is not god" into all our heads. If you believe that spirituality can be found in science and reason, HDM was all about probing into the mysteries of the universe, questioning what is there and even to an extent, why. Dust- what is it? I'd say that's the numero uno theme that re-occurs throughout. Is there some consciousness to that miniscule percentage of matter in the universe that science has thus far been unable to account for? It's a possibility. And even if at the end of the road Pullman answers his own question, asserting that there is no unifying being responsible for the creation of man and everything, he still presented THREE BOOKS getting to that point. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone has to come to some sort of conclusion for themselves but the point is that they actually took time and thought to get there.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:18 pm
by stereosforgeeks
DaleTremont wrote:Even if Pullman has declared himself to be an atheist, there is a spiritual ethos in HDM. It's not as if the whole way through the book he was subversively hammering in "There is no god. There is not god" into all our heads. If you believe that spirituality can be found in science and reason, HDM was all about probing into the mysteries of the universe, questioning what is there and even to an extent, why. Dust- what is it? I'd say that's the numero uno theme that re-occurs throughout. Is there some consciousness to that miniscule percentage of matter in the universe that science has thus far been unable to account for? It's a possibility. And even if at the end of the road Pullman answers his own question, asserting that there is no unifying being responsible for the creation of man and everything, he still presented THREE BOOKS getting to that point. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone has to come to some sort of conclusion for themselves but the point is that they actually took time and thought to get there.


Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. You can read these books and come accross with your won interpretation of what HDM is about. Catholics reading them wont automatically become athiests as people seem to think.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:26 pm
by so sorry
stereosforgeeks wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:Even if Pullman has declared himself to be an atheist, there is a spiritual ethos in HDM. It's not as if the whole way through the book he was subversively hammering in "There is no god. There is not god" into all our heads. If you believe that spirituality can be found in science and reason, HDM was all about probing into the mysteries of the universe, questioning what is there and even to an extent, why. Dust- what is it? I'd say that's the numero uno theme that re-occurs throughout. Is there some consciousness to that miniscule percentage of matter in the universe that science has thus far been unable to account for? It's a possibility. And even if at the end of the road Pullman answers his own question, asserting that there is no unifying being responsible for the creation of man and everything, he still presented THREE BOOKS getting to that point. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone has to come to some sort of conclusion for themselves but the point is that they actually took time and thought to get there.


Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. You can read these books and come accross with your won interpretation of what HDM is about. Catholics reading them wont automatically become athiests as people seem to think.


I hear what you guys are saying, and I can certainly agree that what I take away from reading the books shouldn't be influenced by what the author 's personal feelings are.

But just recognize that Pullman had an agenda when he wrote the trilogy (I believe he explains it as the "anti-narnia"), and that agenda is that god doesn't exist. With that in mind, you can at least understand why certain religious groups may have a problem with the movie.

No if you'll excuse me, I have to get the hell out of this thread before our on resident HDM expert comes here and kicks my ass!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:30 pm
by stereosforgeeks
so sorry wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:Even if Pullman has declared himself to be an atheist, there is a spiritual ethos in HDM. It's not as if the whole way through the book he was subversively hammering in "There is no god. There is not god" into all our heads. If you believe that spirituality can be found in science and reason, HDM was all about probing into the mysteries of the universe, questioning what is there and even to an extent, why. Dust- what is it? I'd say that's the numero uno theme that re-occurs throughout. Is there some consciousness to that miniscule percentage of matter in the universe that science has thus far been unable to account for? It's a possibility. And even if at the end of the road Pullman answers his own question, asserting that there is no unifying being responsible for the creation of man and everything, he still presented THREE BOOKS getting to that point. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone has to come to some sort of conclusion for themselves but the point is that they actually took time and thought to get there.


Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. You can read these books and come accross with your won interpretation of what HDM is about. Catholics reading them wont automatically become athiests as people seem to think.


I hear what you guys are saying, and I can certainly agree that what I take away from reading the books shouldn't be influenced by what the author 's personal feelings are.

But just recognize that Pullman had an agenda when he wrote the trilogy (I believe he explains it as the "anti-narnia"), and that agenda is that god doesn't exist. With that in mind, you can at least understand why certain religious groups may have a problem with the movie.

No if you'll excuse me, I have to get the hell out of this thread before our on resident HDM expert comes here and kicks my ass!


Yeah, but lots of books are written with an agenda. I understand why Pullman stating it as an anti-narnia would scare people, but the book is full of wonderful ideas that if the protesters would have read the book with an open mind I am sure they could have got something out of it.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:43 pm
by Maui
Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote: Can't wait to see Eva Green's Serafina Pekkala costume.



Well, it ain't that exciting - she has barely any screen time in this flick.



I still need to finish Amber Spyglass folks - then I'll jump into this thread with my thoughts.