March 06 BotM Thread - 1984

This forum caters to our literary tastes.

March Book of the Month Poll

Poll ended at Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:26 pm

CELL by Stephen King
7
28%
A PRINCESS OF MARS by Edgar Rice Burroughs
5
20%
1984 by George Orwell
8
32%
Nope, not happening for me, babe.
2
8%
The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
3
12%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby Petri on Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:50 pm

Petri wrote:1984 is a excellent (and timely) book and I wouldn't mind reading it again. But I need an excuse to go buy The Cell so everyone vote for that.


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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:38 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote:Iconny's more of a grenade launcher fan.



actually I'm more of a fan of assualt rifles . . . they're easier to shove up people like Hollywood's asses when they least expect it . . . makes for some particularly festive bowel confetti . . .

oh seppuku, you never cease to amaze me with your attention to detail . . . cute attempt at translating my post :wink:
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:51 pm

BuckyO'harre wrote:Comparing me to the scarlet peter eh? Just for that you get a...

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Postby Seppuku on Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:52 pm

Iconoclastica wrote:actually I'm more of a fan of assualt rifles . . . they're easier to shove up people like Hollywood's asses when they least expect it . . . makes for some particularly festive bowel confetti . . .

oh seppuku, you never cease to amaze me with your attention to detail . . . cute attempt at translating my post :wink:


And you never cease to amaze me with your terrifying (and genius) descriptions on other zoners' insides. Must be a medical student thing...

Man if I ever hook up with one of you crazies, remind me not to rent out Saving Private Ryan for a nice night in: "Woah there goes his oesophagus! Shit his venae cordis minimae just exploded, insane!" :D
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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:57 pm

Hehe, no, I'm just an oddball . . . most people in my class are respectable human beings :-p . . . though, that does bring me to a conclusion . . .


Iconny's Room 101 = an assault rifle making bowel confetti out of my insides . . . or being forced to take ALL things seriously for the rest of my life . . . oooh, I shudder at the thought
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Postby Seppuku on Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:10 pm

My Room 101? There's a really funny program in England called Room 101, where various "celebs" get to pick a bunch of things they'd put in their own private Hell. I always found it hard picking mine because I love the world and it's perfect and there's cute little bunnies and Natalie Portman rapping and absinthe and... I'll give it a shot though, I guess waking up in the morning and realising every single member of my family and everyone I know had joined the KKK.

Oh yeah and one last 1984 point. One thing I didn't agree with Orwell about was that the working class schweine would be too ignorant and toiling to ever revolt. In my opinion H.G. Wells got it right in the Time Machine, the rich would become the Morlocks, not the other way around. It's the act of struggle that keeps your spirit alive, and keeps you philosophical and close to the beating heart of life. I guess Orwell kind of hinted on that, but he also flat-out contradicted it at some points.

EDIT: It's been a while since I read it, so there's a good chance that I'm talking out my arse. If so ignore this post :roll: .
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Postby tapehead on Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:20 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote:
TonyWilson wrote: Whoa whoa whoa, didn't Blake come up with teh Doors of percepstion thing?

On topic though, I prefer 1984 as I find the human drama much more interesting.


Good book, pity mescaline's so hard to get a hold of nowadays though. I remember reading some back-dated interview where Morrison said he picked it up from Aldous Huxley. You'd have thought he'd have been a Blake fan too? Maybe he just liked that Tiger Tiger poem 'coz it sounded pretty like.


I've always read about Jim Morrison's claim - on finally reading Huxley's 'Heaven and hell: The Doors of Perception', I think it just comes down to the fact that Huxley quotes and refers to Blake's poem at length in the novel itself

While we are on the subject of Distopian Visions in literature, let me toss in Atwood's 'the Handmaid's Tale' as another worth perusing, particularly with regard to the current religious climate and, like Orwell's novel, the ways we choose to subjugate ourselves, or others. I alway liked the film version of 1984, at least John Hurt's Winston, it lacked a lot of the political theory of Orwell's novel. There's an essay Orwell wrote "The Prevention of Literature" - makes you try to re-think language, and it's function. I try to go back to it every now and then as kind of touchstone. I have to say I find 'Brave New World' more fun to read.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:44 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote:My Room 101? There's a really funny program in England called Room 101, where various "celebs" get to pick a bunch of things they'd put in their own private Hell. I always found it hard picking mine because I love the world and it's perfect and there's cute little bunnies and Natalie Portman rapping and absinthe and... I'll give it a shot though, I guess waking up in the morning and realising every single member of my family and everyone I know had joined the KKK.

Oh yeah and one last 1984 point. One thing I didn't agree with Orwell about was that the working class schweine would be too ignorant and toiling to ever revolt. In my opinion H.G. Wells got it right in the Time Machine, the rich would become the Morlocks, not the other way around. It's the act of struggle that keeps your spirit alive, and keeps you philosophical and close to the beating heart of life. I guess Orwell kind of hinted on that, but he also flat-out contradicted it at some points.

EDIT: It's been a while since I read it, so there's a good chance that I'm talking out my arse. If so ignore this post :roll: .



(I know you said ignore the post - but it's an interesting point) I dunno seppuku - I just never got that feeling . . . I always felt like there was too much fear . . . not to mention it takes a leader to start a revolt . . . when that leader is painted as the villain, there's not much you can do. People also tend to fear, more than a tyrant, the idea of leaving their secure, cushy lives (or at least as cushy of a life that they feel is possible to exist) for the unknown . . . if you're brought up thinking that things can only get worse than your situation, not better, then you have no reason to want to change things . . . sure, it's ignorance, but not in a way that's meant for us to look down on the working class.

Oh man this is getting me all giddy for V for Vendetta :-D

I love HG Wells, and I definitely agree with you there. Actually, I feel like the wealthy class would simply die out . . . in a survival of the fittest evolution of humanity, those who are most coddled from the realities of survival amidst chaos are the least likely to be able to survive past a certain point . . . the working class would have the skills and strength necessary to endure just about any future, once money is no longer a factor . . .
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Postby Pacino86845 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:15 pm

If the wealthy class are capable of constructing the perfect system for keeping the proles aloof of the realities of the world, then no, there is no reason why they would go anywhere. The upper class's struggle would be that of maintaining their perfect system of essentially societal brainwashing, and the middle class and poor's struggle would be to go through this maze, looking for the cheese.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:22 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:If the wealthy class are capable of constructing the perfect system for keeping the proles aloof of the realities of the world, then no, there is no reason why they would go anywhere. The upper class's struggle would be that of maintaining their perfect system of essentially societal brainwashing, and the middle class and poor's struggle would be to go through this maze, looking for the cheese.


that is, until the resources run out, or if the wealthy class is never clever enough to attempt an authoritarian regime (i.e. as would have presumably been the case with the Morlocks/The Time Machine scenario) :wink:
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Postby Pacino86845 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:27 pm

Iconoclastica wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:If the wealthy class are capable of constructing the perfect system for keeping the proles aloof of the realities of the world, then no, there is no reason why they would go anywhere. The upper class's struggle would be that of maintaining their perfect system of essentially societal brainwashing, and the middle class and poor's struggle would be to go through this maze, looking for the cheese.


that is, until the resources run out, or if the wealthy class is never clever enough to attempt an authoritarian regime (i.e. as would have presumably been the case with the Morlocks/The Time Machine scenario) :wink:

Resources running out to me is basically up to the author of a story... they can decide that humans never really figured it out (Wells), or that we haven't gotten to that point yet (Orwell)... what really scared me about 1984, and that book did give me a huge mindfuck btw, was how possible the authoritarian regime seemed, how easy to pull off... and furthermore, how easy it'd be to lead those subjected to it to acceptance of said regime, as if it's the best thing (a necessity in a constant state of war) for them. I still get chills thinking about it. Thanks a lot, Iconoclastica, for bringing forth my repressed nightmares.
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Postby TonyWilson on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:28 pm

I agrre with Iconny, in a situation where there has been a cataclysmic event then resources are the only things worth anything, money, even gold becomes useless when everyone is desperate for clean water, food, shelter and inevitably, weapons.
Being wealthy or upper class alone stands you in no fairer stead then anyone else. But of course the upper class are likely to be the people who control the majority of resources at least until those with weapons come along.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:32 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:
Iconoclastica wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:If the wealthy class are capable of constructing the perfect system for keeping the proles aloof of the realities of the world, then no, there is no reason why they would go anywhere. The upper class's struggle would be that of maintaining their perfect system of essentially societal brainwashing, and the middle class and poor's struggle would be to go through this maze, looking for the cheese.


that is, until the resources run out, or if the wealthy class is never clever enough to attempt an authoritarian regime (i.e. as would have presumably been the case with the Morlocks/The Time Machine scenario) :wink:

Resources running out to me is basically up to the author of a story... they can decide that humans never really figured it out (Wells), or that we haven't gotten to that point yet (Orwell)... what really scared me about 1984, and that book did give me a huge mindfuck btw, was how possible the authoritarian regime seemed, how easy to pull off... and furthermore, how easy it'd be to lead those subjected to it to acceptance of said regime, as if it's the best thing (a necessity in a constant state of war) for them. I still get chills thinking about it. Thanks a lot, Iconoclastica, for bringing forth my repressed nightmares.




Hehe mindfuck is my middle name :wink:

Iconny's first ever thread

Iconny's second thread


My pleasure to be of service, Pacino ^_^ . . . and I agree . . . the reality of the government, and their mastery of breaking people's wills was all to frightening, and all too real . . .

hmmm, now where can I learn how to break a man and rebuild him to my liking? :-p
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:42 pm

I think I posted elsewhere a description of a Bob the Angry Flower cartoon that dealt with similar situations. Here's the original. Pretty much sums it up for me.

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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:44 pm

hahahah yeah, Dennis, you definitely threw that in there in a conversation with me on the "what's in a name?" thread: :wink:

EDIT:
Iconoclastica wrote:
DennisMM wrote:
Iconoclastica wrote:
DennisMM wrote:
Iconoclastica wrote:I used to be an anarchist. Then I realized I had to grow up, so now I'm a perpetual student, nostalgic for the days of running around thinking we were hard core underground punks laying waste to the evils of "the system." Yeah, I know, kinda pathetic :-\


I find it entertaining that most of the young "anarchists" I see are running around in commercially produced clothing with the "A" symbol and obviously living off their parents' or someone else's money, because they're living higher than I seem to be able and I have a passable job.


Hahaha I love those brats! Hehe, those are what we affectionately refer to as fucking posers. They're funny to point and laugh at (sorta like studly gothic chicks). Anarchy definitely is NOT about wearing a freakin $30 shirt with a big A on it and quoting "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and Jolly Roger . . . I was a little more active, a little less "look at me, look at me, I'm an attention whore," than that.

EDIT: Not to say I wasn't living off my parents at the age of 16 . . . I do realize the hypocrisy now . . . hence former anarchist, grateful for "the system" that's paying for all of my scholarships :-D.


I have a "Bob the Angry Flower" cartoon on my cubicle wall that's the sequel to Atlas Shrugged, set a few hours after the end of the book. John Galt stands tall in his triumph over the government and its regulations that lead to mediocrity. "Let's have some lunch!" he declares. The other rich industrialists surrounding him look puzzled. "Don't servants create lunch?" one asks. End of story: Weeks later they're all tilling the soil by hand just for subsistence.


Wow - that's amazing. Heh, I've actually always had an obsession with Rearden/Dagny, for that matter. In the end, though, I guess everyone has to face the fact that no amount of idealistic/hedonistic philosophizing can lay a finger on the workings of the real world.
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:59 pm

Sorry to make you repeat all that. Here's another very funny take on Rand (who, if you haven't caught on yet, I despise):

The Abridged Atlas Shrugged
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:59 pm

technically, your first thread was ROLL TIDE, ROLL!, but since I started that one for you, we'll let it slide.

my thoughts on 1984 vs. Brave New World...it was thought for years that it was a simple case of one vs. the other, but I think time has proved that it's a combination of both that we face today in our modern world.

we've got drugs, approved by the state, to make us happier, more productive, better people, better consumers...drugs to make us fit better into society...and yet we also live in a world of political doublespeak, a world where one buzz word alone can scare the beejesus out of people, a world where your either with us or with those other guys, a world where gov't appointed watchdogs can hold us for as long as they please, can torture us...

They were both "right", they are both as scary as anything I've ever come across, and it's the way of today.
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Postby cinephile2000 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:38 pm

I hate you Keepcoolbutcare I spent 20 min. reading the whole thread to make sure I didn't miss anything and I make a good point in my head and lo and behold the last post has my exact thoughts.

I read 1984 a year ago and BNW this year, I have to say BNW hit me harder. Maybe its because I'm a teenager and all this stuff right now is very tempting to me. But my favorite book of the two writers is Animal Farm sooo...

In my room 101 I would be told I will be given a drug that allows me to think feel and hear but not move, thus cutting me off from the world. That would scare me the most.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:31 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:technically, your first thread was ROLL TIDE, ROLL!, but since I started that one for you, we'll let it slide.



hahaha good memory . . . wow, that makes me proud


and good point about the books . . . as I stated earlier, I find it quite depressing that BNW has trumped in relevancy so much over time :? . . . I'd almost rather 1984 be more relevant, just because it feels like such a more profoundly deserving evil to have to deal with . . .
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Postby brainiac on Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:52 am

1984 beat out CELL by one zombieless vote so I guess 1984 it is!

We can give everyone until 3/20 to read it and open discussion after that OR we can begin discussion now.

Since this is a classic and fairly well known, I can't imagine there would be many spoilers left but for those of you who haven't read it and don't want to read what the rest of us have to say, then stay away from this thread until the 20th and you should be safe.
(Well, that and if you wear one of those latex thingies :wink: ).

So *SPOILER ALERT* on for the posts that follow this one
and don't forget "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU" :shock:
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Postby buster00 on Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:03 am

Does the Ministry of Love still have those latex thingies?


I HATE latex thingies...

I HATE Goddamn Motherfucking Big Brother...
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Postby Petri on Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:21 am

I'll reread it as it has been about 4 years since I last read it.
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Postby HollywoodBabylon on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:01 pm

No one can deny the brilliance of '1984' but it's not Orwell's masterwork. 'Animal Farm' is (and a fine cartoon film was made of it).
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Postby Seppuku on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:09 pm

I think you'd just be repeating yourself by discussing it here - I recommend you go with Cell or A Princess of Mars instead.
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:11 pm

Silence! The poll has spoken!
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Postby Seppuku on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:14 pm

Help! I'm being repressed

I think it'd be quite ironic if one of the Mods put their foot down and vetoed 1984 to stop there being any repeat threads.

I'm thinking of you Keep Cool But Care, finish what you started dude.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Sorry, Brainiac, didn't mean to tread all over book of the month . . . it's kcbc's fault!!! He took my sarcasm to heart and started a thread!!

Please come join us, though :-) - there's some awesome discussion going on relating 1984 to Brave New World and about the politics and themes and such . . . all around good times to be had by all!!
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:31 pm

I...I...was just trying to satisfy Iconoclastica...as usual, I failed.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:36 pm

no you didn't!! kcbc, you rock, man!!

Why don't we just keep discussing 1984, AND read Cell?



and why does kcbc have such damn sexy calves?
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Postby brainiac on Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:10 am

:shock: So..... what are we doing? :?:
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:12 am

I'm reading CELL now, and am about 1/3 of the way through.
So far its a good read and I'm enjoying it muchly. An interesting
take on the zombie genre, and highly topical (9/11, Katrina
references abound).

So I'd be up for discussing either CELL or 1984. Haven't read 1984
in awhile, but I can still talk about it...
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Postby Ribbons on Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:44 am

brainiac wrote::shock: So..... what are we doing? :?:


All jests aside, I think it's probably best if we just stick with the poll winner. If it doesn't generate much auxiliary discussion, well, that's that. But these things are hard enough to organize as it is.
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Postby brainiac on Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:58 pm

For you Rand haters :wink: , her book ANTHEM written in 1937 echos much of this discussion. Her hero triumphs over collectivism and I think that illustrates what I find most depressing about 1984 and BNW -- the protags wind up defeated. You can't win so there's no sense fighting the system. Possibly true but also defeatist. I'd be one of the drab plebians in 1984 or taking my Soma like a good citizen while secretly dreaming of a revolution in both societies.

My Rm 101? Being operated on while awake but everyone thinks I am asleep.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:15 pm

brainiac wrote:For you Rand haters :wink: , her book ANTHEM written in 1937 echos much of this discussion. Her hero triumphs over collectivism and I think that illustrates what I find most depressing about 1984 and BNW -- the protags wind up defeated. You can't win so there's no sense fighting the system. Possibly true but also defeatist. I'd be one of the drab plebians in 1984 or taking my Soma like a good citizen while secretly dreaming of a revolution in both societies.



Oh man - brianiac, I love Anthem, and would be happy to discuss that with you too at any time :-)

The defeatism point is a really good one . . . and I especially find it powerful considering that I think, in the end, Orwell felt that way about himself . . . he just barely finished writing 1984 (while on his deathbed, dying from tuberculosis) . . . he was bedridden for most the the length of time it took to write the novel, and he actually saw it as an utter failure . . . a defeat (especially considering much of the early misinterpretation of the text by zealots on both sides).

He spent his entire life, as a soldier, as a social experimentor/constant observer, as a journalist, and as an author, trying to fight oppressive political and social systems (both of his own time and of the future). He alienated himself from society (even going so far as to exile himself to Jura before dying) to try to gain a realistic perspective of humanity, but ended up succumbing to his own self-neglect (due to his long-ignored illness). It's really tragic, because I think he succeeded more than any other author in making people aware of the freedoms we have, but often take for granted. His books all asked the question of what will happen when we no longer see the need to fight our oppressors . . . but he'd lost that will in his own way . . . he didn't even try to fight to survive . . . he simply gave in. In his own way, I think his dying breaths were relatively comparable to "I love Big Brother" :-(
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Postby Flumm on Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:56 am

Well, I haven't read 1984 and yet to finish ABNW, but can I just say to all involved, this is one of the more interesting threads to have surfaced around here lately? It's a nice change to the more humourous and freewheeling threads, to once in a while, balance it with something like this. Refreshing to have some variety and some sustained, passionate, informed discussion.

A fascinating read for the uninformed, yet eager and curious like myself. So, uh, yeah. Cheers, people.

:roll: :) :P


(Is this a threadkilling post or what?)
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:02 am

hmmm, my room 101?

Me gettin' ludovicoed to Michael Bay flicks, with all my fave bands as background music.

or...

Constantly gettin' blown to the point of ejaculation, so close a 'lil peco dribbles out, then having an ice pack placed on my knob...repeat...repeat. Shudder.

or...

porn, minus all the sex, just the dialogue and plot bits.

or....

24/7 local news. Egads I'm scaring myself now.
Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:03 am

Flumm wrote:Well, I haven't read 1984 and yet to finish ABNW, but can I just say to all involved, this is one of the more interesting threads to have surfaced around here lately? It's a nice change to the more humourous and freewheeling threads, to once in a while, balance it with something like this. Refreshing to have some variety and some sustained, passionate, informed discussion.

A fascinating read for the uninformed, yet eager and curious like myself. So, uh, yeah. Cheers, people.

:roll: :) :P


(Is this a threadkilling post or what?)


Thanks man, but I feel really bad because this thread is ridiculously spoiler-heavy for the uninformed reader . . . we basically destroyed the insane coolness of the shock factor of the book for you - hope you can expunge some of it from your memory before reading it!
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Postby Flumm on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:05 am

Flumm wrote:Well, I haven't read 1984 and yet to finish ABNW, but can I just say to all involved, this is one of the more interesting threads to have surfaced around here lately? It's a nice change to the more humourous and freewheeling threads, to once in a while, balance it with something like this. Refreshing to have some variety and some sustained, passionate, informed discussion.

A fascinating read for the uninformed, yet eager and curious like myself. So, uh, yeah. Cheers, people.

:roll: :) :P


(Is this a threadkilling post or what?)



Keepcoolbutcare wrote:hmmm, my room 101?

Me gettin' ludovicoed to Michael Bay flicks, with all my fave bands as background music.

or...

Constantly gettin' blown to the point of ejaculation, so close a 'lil peco dribbles out, then having an ice pack placed on my knob...repeat...repeat. Shudder.

or...

porn, minus all the sex, just the dialogue and plot bits.

or....

24/7 local news. Egads I'm scaring myself now.


The timing of a pro...
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Postby Iconoclastica on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:06 am

Flumm wrote:
Flumm wrote:Well, I haven't read 1984 and yet to finish ABNW, but can I just say to all involved, this is one of the more interesting threads to have surfaced around here lately? It's a nice change to the more humourous and freewheeling threads, to once in a while, balance it with something like this. Refreshing to have some variety and some sustained, passionate, informed discussion.

A fascinating read for the uninformed, yet eager and curious like myself. So, uh, yeah. Cheers, people.

:roll: :) :P


(Is this a threadkilling post or what?)



Keepcoolbutcare wrote:hmmm, my room 101?

Me gettin' ludovicoed to Michael Bay flicks, with all my fave bands as background music.

or...

Constantly gettin' blown to the point of ejaculation, so close a 'lil peco dribbles out, then having an ice pack placed on my knob...repeat...repeat. Shudder.

or...

porn, minus all the sex, just the dialogue and plot bits.

or....

24/7 local news. Egads I'm scaring myself now.


The timing of a pro...


kcbc, you classy bastard!
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Postby Iconoclastica on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:44 am

1984 wrote:We shall meet in a place where there is no darkness . . .



good night, folks :wink:
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Postby Petri on Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:09 pm

I've started reading 1984 for the second time and must say that as I have much more patience now that I did the first time I read it, I'm getting alot out of it.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:20 am

V for Vendetta = 1984 + Fight Club . . . eh, eh?


"Winston" triumphs over Room 101, blasting his way out of his filing cabinet/cell with walls made of solid concrete . . . realizing that his imprisonment was nothing less than his own personal wake up call . . . his near-life experience . . .

It's only after we lose everything that we are free to do anything . . .

Sure, V was sophisticated, and appreciated humanity for its uniqueness and cultured value, as opposed to Tyler Durden's more nihilistic and chaotic approach to anarchy . . . but still, I feel like somewhere between 1984 and Fight Club lies a balance . . .

dunno if anyone agrees or disagrees, I'm probably just ranting incomprehensibly after too many hours of class and studying and such . . . just felt like throwing that out there (considering my obviously irrational love of all three works), and bumping the thread since it's almost the end of March (though I should really be getting back to work - good night!!)
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:44 am

I don't think the Fascist Norsefire England compares to the Fascism in 1984...
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Postby Iconoclastica on Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:54 am

really? in the V graphic novel I felt like England was a pretty decent mimic of 1984 . . . Big Brother/Fate watched all . . . every move that most people made was traceable by videotape or audiotape or something of the sort . . . government had total control over the media, with the ability to change present history and comprehensively design the country's perspective of past wars and opinions of other nations . . .

V had more corruption among the ranks of the law enforcement than would be permitted in 1984, but otherwise there seemed to be many similarities in my opinion . . . though if you'd like to elaborate . . .


ok, really leaving now, I swear
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Postby darkjedijaina on Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

I'm re-reading 1984, as it's been about ten years since I last read it.
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:43 am

Okay, well I'm about to start reading this book. 18 MONTHS LATE-FIVE!
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:46 am

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:has anyone read Pynchon's introduction to the book, which I believe is available from the latest printing, the new Orwell centenial edition?...good stuff.


I don't have the edition with Pynchon's foreword ( :( ), but I found it online. It's a little lengthy, so I figured I'd link to it rather than post it wholesale. Good stuff indeed.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm

Ribbons wrote:I don't have the edition with Pynchon's foreword ( :( ), but I found it online. It's a little lengthy, so I figured I'd link to it rather than post it wholesale. Good stuff indeed.


i heart Pynchon.

nice webstigation, Ribbons.
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Postby Maui on Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:24 pm

Well, I dunno - I have this bookshelf full of books to be read. I'm leaning towards 1984 (the book that is). ;)
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Postby Ribbons on Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:32 pm

Maui wrote:Well, I dunno - I have this bookshelf full of books to be read. I'm leaning towards 1984 (the book that is). ;)


Yes, do eeet! I'm reading that right now too
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