The Dark Tower

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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Hermanator X on Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:39 am

Im seriously getting the itch to read these again cos of this thread. Gonna have to dig through my storage boxes and find out where the hell I put them......
...and so forth.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Nachokoolaid on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:39 am

Just started the Waste Lands.

I'm a little pissed because my book store didn't have the same versions of all of these book, so it looks like I just have a mish mash of different crap. But I guess it's what's on the inside that matters, right?

I'll keep dropping into this thread and give my thoughts.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:02 pm

More Spoilers.....


































NOW THAT FARKING WITCH HAS MADE ROLAND KILL HIS MOTHER NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :( :( :( :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :evil:




I can't take this. I can't believe it has gotten this bad.


Man, this has been a depressing week. That darn novel is GENUINELY so.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:57 am

Just finished Wolves of the Calla.

I'm farking knackered!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:26 pm

Only two more to go!!
There is plenty more mind-fucks to be had before you're through!!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:35 pm

Fievel wrote:Only two more to go!!
There is plenty more mind-fucks to be had before you're through!!


After Callahan found out he was in a fictionalised novel I'm beginning to wonder if all this Dark tower stuff is actually real now. :shock:

Not sure if I like the idea the Wolves were actually Robots.

Have a hard time imagining what Andy would look like as it's hard to see his description as being actually 'cool' or visually looking 'awesome'.

Roland's getting old. :P

So with the Beams breaking, this could mean not just the end of the world, but all worlds and even Heaven and Hell?! :shock:
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:17 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Fievel wrote:Only two more to go!!
There is plenty more mind-fucks to be had before you're through!!


After Callahan found out he was in a fictionalised novel I'm beginning to wonder if all this Dark tower stuff is actually real now. :shock:

Not sure if I like the idea the Wolves were actually Robots.

Have a hard time imagining what Andy would look like as it's hard to see his description as being actually 'cool' or visually looking 'awesome'.

Roland's getting old. :P

So with the Beams breaking, this could mean not just the end of the world, but all worlds and even Heaven and Hell?! :shock:


I liked Wolves of the Calla a lot... I agree with you about Andy... it is almost like aesthetics were thrown out the window when he was designed. The next book is really good. Have you read Hearts in Atlantis? I don't want to spoil it for you but if you haven't read it, you will need to when you get done with the DT series. You also need to read the short story The Little Sisters of Eluria.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:23 am

justcheckin wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Fievel wrote:Only two more to go!!
There is plenty more mind-fucks to be had before you're through!!


After Callahan found out he was in a fictionalised novel I'm beginning to wonder if all this Dark tower stuff is actually real now. :shock:

Not sure if I like the idea the Wolves were actually Robots.

Have a hard time imagining what Andy would look like as it's hard to see his description as being actually 'cool' or visually looking 'awesome'.

Roland's getting old. :P

So with the Beams breaking, this could mean not just the end of the world, but all worlds and even Heaven and Hell?! :shock:


I liked Wolves of the Calla a lot... I agree with you about Andy... it is almost like aesthetics were thrown out the window when he was designed. The next book is really good. Have you read Hearts in Atlantis? I don't want to spoil it for you but if you haven't read it, you will need to when you get done with the DT series. You also need to read the short story The Little Sisters of Eluria.


Well, Wolves of the Calla does what it has to do, it just feels long and rather slow, but my demands on a read may not always be that reasonable or unpretentious, the book did it's intended job well. Though I dunno, getting to know the Calla townsfolk only for them not to really have much involvement in the ending felt like they weren't a build up that had much of a payoff, but still, you had to get to know them anyway. I was rather gutted to see Benny Slightman die, especially with what his father was trying to do.

Not read the other 2 books, though I did see Hearts In Atlantis the movie. I can see certain connections there I suppose. Dunno anything about the Sisters story, but I am good with a sword.

Just into the first 60 odd pages of Song of Susannah and it's moving along very fast and well. Lugz said the rest of it is a fast read so this should be a good time spent in Roland's world, just hope it's more consistently eventful than Calla and Wizard and Glass. - No one tell me!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:07 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
justcheckin wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Fievel wrote:Only two more to go!!


Well, Wolves of the Calla does what it has to do, it just feels long and rather slow, but my demands on a read may not always be that reasonable or unpretentious, the book did it's intended job well. Though I dunno, getting to know the Calla townsfolk only for them not to really have much involvement in the ending felt like they weren't a build up that had much of a payoff, but still, you had to get to know them anyway. I was rather gutted to see Benny Slightman die, especially with what his father was trying to do.

Not read the other 2 books, though I did see Hearts In Atlantis the movie. I can see certain connections there I suppose. Dunno anything about the Sisters story, but I am good with a sword.

Just into the first 60 odd pages of Song of Susannah and it's moving along very fast and well. Lugz said the rest of it is a fast read so this should be a good time spent in Roland's world, just hope it's more consistently eventful than Calla and Wizard and Glass. - No one tell me!


Little Sisters is a short story about something Roland goes through in the desert prior to meeting Jake at the weigh station... it is in Everything's Eventual (book of short stories). It is sorta cool to check out... just another little piece of the puzzle. Oh, also there is another short story in Everything's Eventual called Everything's Eventual that is about a character that you meet in the last book The Dark Tower... so that is a good one to read also.

The movie Hearts in Atlantis does the typical thing that all of King's books do when they get turned into movies... and that is suck. LOL Actually I like some of them but that isn't one of them that I like. Since you have seen it, you know enough about it to make a cross connection of characters when you come to it in the Dark Tower. It is sort of like Callahan in Wolves of the Calla except it is now someone from Hearts in Atlantis. Anyways... enjoy!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:16 pm

I've started re-reading the series (for the first time)...so much that I missed the first time through. I'm about 1/3 of the way through The Waste Lands now.

God I love this series, even its faults.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:17 pm

I was relistening to the audiobooks for the first time this past summer when I got into my car accident. I have no desire to get back in the series where I was (about halfway through Wolves of the Calla). I may hit up some of the "related" books first before jumping back in. But then, King has a new super-novel coming out in a month. I may just wait to get that out of the way first.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:04 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:I've started re-reading the series (for the first time)...so much that I missed the first time through. I'm about 1/3 of the way through The Waste Lands now.

God I love this series, even its faults.


Yes, very true... I have read it a couple of times. Once you read the ending you almost have to re-read the first one anyway.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Fievel wrote:I was relistening to the audiobooks for the first time this past summer when I got into my car accident. I have no desire to get back in the series where I was (about halfway through Wolves of the Calla). I may hit up some of the "related" books first before jumping back in. But then, King has a new super-novel coming out in a month. I may just wait to get that out of the way first.


That looks cool. Did you read Duma Key? I really liked it!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:30 pm

Yeah, I enjoyed Duma Key a LOT more than I thought I would from reading the description. Not only was it a good story, but I think King was a lot more vivid in his descriptions in that book. I completely visualized the island without any effort. Good stuff for sure.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:08 am

Fievel wrote:Yeah, I enjoyed Duma Key a LOT more than I thought I would from reading the description. Not only was it a good story, but I think King was a lot more vivid in his descriptions in that book. I completely visualized the island without any effort. Good stuff for sure.


I agree... I hope the next one is good as well. Did you read his newest short story book Just After Sunset? Anyways...we will have to converse while reading the new one.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:36 am

I have Just After Sunset all ready to go on the iPod.
And indeed, discussion will be had regarding Under the Dome but we had best do that at the regular King thread when we do.

......unless the "Dome" in question is really a device of the Crimson King.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:47 am

Well, halfway through Song of Susannah after only not more than a few days read. For me that's good, that's a zoom of a read. After the exhausting chunk of log that was Wolves of the Calla this is the light and superfast bullet read that I need to make up for that, and even Wizard and Glass's demand of dedication.

And I still haven't caught up with Callahan, Jake and Oy yet!

I can see where this is all going I think, and I might have thought this even when reading Calla maybe. That rather than this 'story' being a piece of fiction in our factual real 'world', these events are actually true in the universe of multiple worlds we live in - and so is ALL so called 'fiction' as we know it.


BUT PLEASE, NO ONE TELL ME IF I'M RIGHT OR WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!!! DON'T SPOIL IT FOR ME!!!!!

I MEAN, I HAVE YET TO READ THE PAR WHERE THEY MEET STEPHEN BLIMMIN' KING!!!!!!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:00 pm

:D I guess you will find out soon enough!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:54 pm

I had the same feelings. I slogged through Wolves of the Calla for months and blew through Song of Susannah in one sitting.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:46 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I had the same feelings. I slogged through Wolves of the Calla for months and blew through Song of Susannah in one sitting.


It took me the longest to get through Wizard and Glass... and I really liked Wolves of the Calla but I think it and Wizard both were books where the quest stops completely and that in itself slows down your momentum because you know you have to read it before the quest moves on.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:34 am

justcheckin wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:I had the same feelings. I slogged through Wolves of the Calla for months and blew through Song of Susannah in one sitting.


It took me the longest to get through Wizard and Glass... and I really liked Wolves of the Calla but I think it and Wizard both were books where the quest stops completely and that in itself slows down your momentum because you know you have to read it before the quest moves on.


The difference between Wizard and Wolves for me, though, was that I was actually interested in Roland's story. I could have done without Callahan's crap in Wolves. I could do without most of the crap in Wolves, actually. I think Books V and VII have too much filler.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:26 am

I started the DT series several months before Wolves of the Calla came out. I had a small bit of time between W&G and WOTC so I listened to related books, including 'Salems Lot, so I was all into hearing about Callahan's adventures. There were very few related books that I didn't listen to or read during my reading of the DT series. That was a great time.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:40 am

caruso_stalker217 wrote:
justcheckin wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:I had the same feelings. I slogged through Wolves of the Calla for months and blew through Song of Susannah in one sitting.


It took me the longest to get through Wizard and Glass... and I really liked Wolves of the Calla but I think it and Wizard both were books where the quest stops completely and that in itself slows down your momentum because you know you have to read it before the quest moves on.


The difference between Wizard and Wolves for me, though, was that I was actually interested in Roland's story. I could have done without Callahan's crap in Wolves. I could do without most of the crap in Wolves, actually. I think Books V and VII have too much filler.


Even the LAST book has filler? Man I thought that would be about wrapping the story up! Now I wonder what happens in the final book.

But please. Don't tell me!!




I said don't tell me!!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:14 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:
justcheckin wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:I had the same feelings. I slogged through Wolves of the Calla for months and blew through Song of Susannah in one sitting.


It took me the longest to get through Wizard and Glass... and I really liked Wolves of the Calla but I think it and Wizard both were books where the quest stops completely and that in itself slows down your momentum because you know you have to read it before the quest moves on.


The difference between Wizard and Wolves for me, though, was that I was actually interested in Roland's story. I could have done without Callahan's crap in Wolves. I could do without most of the crap in Wolves, actually. I think Books V and VII have too much filler.


Even the LAST book has filler? Man I thought that would be about wrapping the story up! Now I wonder what happens in the final book.

But please. Don't tell me!!






I said don't tell me!!


Are you done with Song of Suz already?
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby klinteastwood on Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:39 pm

whats up gang..Dark Tower is awesome

I was thinking about the ending the other day and the fact that a lot of people complain..well I too was a little disappointed by the end, but almost immediately after finishing, I realized I wouldn't have it any other way..the Dark Tower isnt about when Roland finally reaches the tower, its about the journey, and what a unforgettable journey it was

i have to say that Im with a lot of people here that think Wizard and Glass is the best book, its my personal favorite of the series..theyre all good..Im also one the minority that thinks Wolves is awesome..robotic humanoid wolves that dress like Dr Doom and wield lightsabers?! It doesnt get any better than that
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:19 pm

Hey klint.
Good to see another Tower junkie here!

Be careful about posting any details regarding the end of the series.
We have a few board members that are currently reading the DT series for their first time and posting their thoughts as they go.
Make sure you use the Spoiler button (highlight the spoiler material and then click "SPOILER") when mentioning specifics....(Book 7 Spoiler) especially about the ending!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby klinteastwood on Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:48 pm

hey thanks for the welcome

and thanks for the heads up..been a long time AICN visitor for many years and I just barely started using the messageboards :D
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Ribbons on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:19 pm

Jeez, I wish I could get you guys to be this enthusiastic about the rest of the book forum... :(
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Ribbons wrote:Jeez, I wish I could get you guys to be this enthusiastic about the rest of the book forum... :(


SEPERATE ALTERNATIVE THREADS?!?! WHAT WORLD AM I IN!?!?!? TODAAAAAAAAASSSHHH!!!!!!!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:13 pm

klinteastwood wrote:whats up gang..Dark Tower is awesome

I was thinking about the ending the other day and the fact that a lot of people complain..well I too was a little disappointed by the end, but almost immediately after finishing, I realized I wouldn't have it any other way..the Dark Tower isnt about when Roland finally reaches the tower, its about the journey, and what a unforgettable journey it was

i have to say that Im with a lot of people here that think Wizard and Glass is the best book, its my personal favorite of the series..theyre all good..Im also one the minority that thinks Wolves is awesome..robotic humanoid wolves that dress like Dr Doom and wield lightsabers?! It doesnt get any better than that


I loved the ending... actually made me read the first book again because it changes how you view some things...
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:14 pm

Ribbons wrote:Jeez, I wish I could get you guys to be this enthusiastic about the rest of the book forum... :(


Goes to take a peek at the rest of the book forum...
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:33 pm

According to the message board at his site and clarifying a statement King made recently:

"Stephen has given me permission to pass along that he has an idea for a new Dark Tower book, the working title of which will be THE WIND THROUGH THE KEYHOLE. He has not yet started this book and anticipates that it will be a minimum of eight months before he is able to begin writing it."


According to someone who saw King at a speaking engagement in NYC:

Biggest news is that King stated that he has another DT story in him to tell...Roland's adventures after Wizard and Glass until LSOE. No dates or anything given, but sounds like he will write a novel about the fall of Gilead, battle of Jerricho Hill, and Roland's start on the quest for the Dark Tower.


LSOE = Little Sisters of Eluria (short story found in Everything's Eventual)
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Pacino86845 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:37 pm

I just picked up the first three Dark Tower books at a book sale for $2 a pop! For too long have I sat on the sidelines as you guys continue to heap praise on the series... even JL couldn't stop going on about it back when I met him in London!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:38 pm

Good deal Pacino!
Pop in and post your thoughts as you plow through them like Kirk has. It's always interesting to hear other people's reactions to what happens throughout the story.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:43 pm

I've never really read books before. But when I have, I read The Dark Tower novels. Now knowing all this, you really can't just sit there knowing that even ME is ahead of you in these books can you, Pacino?

Sort your bloody act out and get reading, you Loser!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:21 pm

More info about the new book including a YouTube video where King mentions the new DT book.

He says the new book takes place between Wizard & Glass and The Wolves of the Calla.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:04 pm

That was really cool... I can't wait. Anyone pick up the new book yet?
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:45 am

Fievel wrote:According to the message board at his site and clarifying a statement King made recently:

"Stephen has given me permission to pass along that he has an idea for a new Dark Tower book, the working title of which will be THE WIND THROUGH THE KEYHOLE. He has not yet started this book and anticipates that it will be a minimum of eight months before he is able to begin writing it."


According to someone who saw King at a speaking engagement in NYC:

Biggest news is that King stated that he has another DT story in him to tell...Roland's adventures after Wizard and Glass until LSOE. No dates or anything given, but sounds like he will write a novel about the fall of Gilead, battle of Jerricho Hill, and Roland's start on the quest for the Dark Tower.


LSOE = Little Sisters of Eluria (short story found in Everything's Eventual)


Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:00 pm

I came across this fun little internet nugget and thought I'd share.

It spoils the "Drawing of the Three" so if you haven't read and don't want to be spoiled... skip it. *Edit Drawing of the Tree... hahahaha*

Sing the following lyrics to "Synchronicity II" by The Police (I did not write this btw!)

Another woe of Jake's death to Walter.
Lobstrosities screaming on the shore.
He has to draw the three from the midst of time and space.
He can't feel with his fingers gone.
Roland drags himself in through the door with such frustration.
We all know The Prisoner's life's at stake.
Eddie only stares into the distance,
because he's stoned and strapped with some cocaine.

Many miles away,
Roland crawls through the time.
From the bottom of a dark,
10 year sleep.

Another destructive, hateful morning,
Detta belches filth towards all guys.
She wants to shoplift from the checkout lines today.
She doesn't think she'll get caught trying.
Roland comes and grabs on like a nasty, parasitic tick.
While all Eddie can think to do is watch.
Every single dealing with this so- called schitzophrenic,
is a humiliating kick in the crotch.

Many miles away.
Something crawls from the darkness,
of the Dark Tower's base.

Another working day for Jack Mort.
Dropping bricks on people with grace.
Packed like sardines in a shiny metal tin can,
He hides above to see who he can deface.
Roland grips the door and hurls ol' Jack into the distance,
into the path of an oncoming train.
Detta's evil is gone now.
Susannah's in her place now.
The path towards the tower,
lies in the new Ka-tet.

Many miles away.
There's a marking on the doors,
at the lining of the shore,
from the Dark,
Tower's ba-a-a-a-a-a-a-ase....
Many miles away...
Many miles away..
Many miles away...
Many miles away...


I personally think a few of the facts are wrong... but cool attempt anyway.
Last edited by justcheckin on Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:20 pm

ok, so i finally finished the dark tower series... BEFORE KIRKS BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i can only give overall impressions at this point...

The Gunslinger - a tough slog to get through. didn't much like the writing style. probably my least favorite, though now that i've finished the series, i can start over and maybe appreciate it more the 2nd time through. probably won't do that for a while yet... maybe a year or so. and then the next time, i'll listen to the whole series on audiobook (and then i can finally figure out how some of those names and words are pronounced)

The Drawing of the Three - like it much better, and this is the one that drew me in to the story, pun intended. loved eddie's story. didn't much like the odetta/detta story. really liked the jack mort story but disappointed that he died and never returned. i thought he was a great character and was hoping he'd reappear in the story somewhere down the line, but instead he goes out like darth maul. i really liked the deeper implications of how what happened to him affected jake and the gunslinger's pasts/presents/futures. and only stephen king could write a book that is essentially a 500-page series of character introductions. in retrospect, that kind of weakens the book.

The Wastelands - really liked this one, especially the 2nd half which is some of the best action writing king has done. the first half is a bit slow but gets going, and ends up being one of the best books.

Wizard and Glass - maybe my favorite (it's between this and vol 7). i loved roland's story (though like most of the books in the series, and pretty much everything king writes, it could have been shortened by a couple hundred pages and not lost a thing), and i loved the reality-twisting bookends with the journey through stand-land and the visit to oz

Wolves of the Calla - too long, i think the story was ok and does set roland and co. on the final path to the tower. but just took too long getting there. it is kind of like a stand-alone story welded awkwardly onto the series, and the calla-speak got a bit annoying (and stayed that way through the next couple books).

Song of Susannah - this was actually my 2nd least favorite. i think because it felt like king was really pushing to move things forward, and as some say, it felt forced. also, the storyline with susannah's pregnancy didn't interest me much, and as it turned out, the "end product" of that storyline didn't amount to much either.

Dark Tower - it's between this and W&G for my favorite. i loved the ending (wished i hadn't had it spoiled ahead of time though :( ). not sure how i feel about the horn though... not sure if i like the ray of hope it signifies, or think it's a cop-out. i loved the fates of the various ka-tet members... particularly for jake and oy. each of those parts of the books actually made me tear up, and i'm not sure that's ever happened for me before from a book. however, like most of the books, it was too long and had a lot that could've been removed or was unnecessary, particularly near the beginning. i know what king says about endings, and how it's the journey that matters... but the journey doesn't have to take fucking forever either! and as someone who believes that one of the weakest parts of king's writing is his inability to come up with a decent ending, some of his comments on endings are a bit revealing... perhaps a tad defensive as well? and it's ironic, since this series actually has a stronger ending than most any of his other books.

more about the ending... do you think on roland's next go-round, that he'll end up with the same ka-tet? i like to think that on each "iteration" of his quest, he draws a new, but similar ka-tet. maybe next time, instead of jake his adopted son, eddie the drug addict, susannah the crippled schizo, and oy the talking bumbler, it's jane his adopted daughter, freddie the pr0n addict, joanna the blind manic-depressive, and irl the sign-languaging insect. and maybe next time they end up joining forces with the truck driver who ran over that kid in pet sematary. in other words, i like to think that story and characters are slightly different each time... and the presence of the horn suggests that some things DO change on each version. also, maybe this time they're drawn from the 2060's, the 2070's and the 2080's... maybe the previous time they were drawn from the 1860's, the 1870s and the 1880s. anyway, that's one of the things that i thought about after the book was finished
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:11 pm

oh, and also, given that king clearly talks about how this story was inspired by lord of the rings

it's surely no coincidence that the crimson king ends up being reduced to a couple of floating red eyes at the end... since sauron himself spends much of his time as a giant flaming red eye
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:19 pm

Fuck you. And I thought all this black writing had got me ahead by forcing me to just read 20 odd pages of Song of Susannah just now.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:30 pm

Congrats, Baxter! (c'mon Kirks!!!!)

Regarding the audiobook to get pronunciations right... it may hurt more than help. Two readers are used for the most updated versions of the series. One guy, George Guidell, reads books 1,5,6, & 7. Another guy, Frank Muller, reads books 2,3, & 4 (he also read the original version of The Gunslinger). Muller would have read the whole series had he not suffered a tragic motorcycle accident that ultimately cost him his life. These two guys pronounce the name Cuthbert two different ways..... and it kills me. I got used to whichever version I was listening to, but when the other guy would start a new book it really bothered me. But the audiobooks are how I experienced the story and wholeheartedly recommend them to anyone that will listen.

Jack Mort = Darth Maul.... perfect description.

Regarding the later books, I'm thankfully surprised that you didn't blast King for pretty much integrating the World Trade Center attacks into the story. That was a hot topic when the book was released. Cries of "too soon!" were heard all over. I was indifferent. It happened.... can't change it. Move on.

But regarding the ending.....
That's the main reason I want to see a movie/HBO series version of the books. They could serve as the second time through the loop where Roland would have the horn and then the series could come to a true ending. But regardless, I think it's King's best ending of any book he's written. He does suck at endings. They are his true Achilles' heel. But the books really couldn't have ended any other way. The ending was foreshadowed from Book 1. Ka is like a wheel.

Now.... are you going to read all of the connected books?
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:42 pm

different pronunciations of Cuthbert? it's KUTH-burt. how else can you pronounce it? does he pronounce like stephen colbert's last name or something?

the WTC stuff was a bit off-putting, but it wasn't a major thing. it seems kind of obvious to work the Twin Towers into a story called the Dark Tower. but the way it was incorporated, you could interpret that the attacks were a GOOD thing, because they led to the destruction of black 13, and just the idea of using an event like that as a minor incident to accomplish some story goal, i can understand that being viewed as a bit offensive

it did plant an urge to read some other king books, but ironically not ones that are DT related... rather ones that i haven't read in a while and were among my faves, like pet sematary and dead zone. both of which, like the DT series, have very good and very tragic endings. as for DT-related books, the stand could "stand" another reading. and IT, though i'm not sure how related it is. i've got hearts in atlantis on audiobook which i'll listen to eventually.

but the next book on my list is Under the Dome. yep, following up one 1000-page king opus with another 1000-page king opus. and who knows, maybe it will turn out to be a DT tie-in as well. for all i know, it could be that the dome is a construction of North Central Positronics.

after that, i think it's time to take a break from king.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:12 am

A reply to Baxter's thoughts on the ending... I fell as you do that there could be many alternatives to the story line. However, in the Gunslinger, Roland has many deja vu moments and one is where he says, "sit yourself Jake" and he thinks about who said that before... a woman. I think it is a reference to Susannah. I actually re-read The Gunslinger after I finished the series. I picked up on a lot of things that I didn't catch the first time around.

Audiobooks... I love them and one pronounces Kuth-bert and the other Quth-bert. I also think there is a slight difference in how they both say Deschain and Alain. They are both good readers. Frank Muller did a great Eddie Dean and Blaine the Mono. What is really funny is that he did the audio for The Talisman and Jake's Dad is the same voice he used for Uncle Morgan.

My favorite book was The Wastelands but I agree that there are large portions that could have been excluded. I know that a lot of you don't like Wolves of the Calla because it seems to stall the quest but I think at some point King was trying to remind you that Gunslingers have an obligation to fulfill regardless of where the quest is.

There is a short story in the Just After Sunset collection that he just published which also includes a story about the twin towers. You have to remember that artists include things that happen in life in their own works as a way of working through their own personal feelings about what happened. I totally think that is why it is there in the DT and why he has written short stories including it. In my opinion, he didn't make any extra money for including it so I don't feel like he did anything wrong there.

I am reading Under the Dome right now... I am 300+ pages in and as of right now, I haven't seen any DT related things.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Fievel on Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:39 am

Audiobooks - yeah, one reader says Deh-shane and the other (I believe) says Des-chain. And one says Uh-len and I think the other says Uh-layne (?) for Alain. I agree about Muller's Eddie. His voice for Eddie is perfect to the point that it makes Guidel's version sound bad. I do like Guidel's voice for Callahan a lot, though. Both readers do a fine job with Roland.

Muller's reading of the DT books made me a fan of his. I have since searched out books that are read by him. Sometimes some of the voices he uses tend to become repetitive, but they always seem to fit the characters so it's never a problem for me. Stephen King talks at the end of Wolves of the Calla about how he listened to Muller's readings of the first four books to get him back into the series so that he could finish writing them.

justcheckin - I've never thought about the events of Wolves of the Calla as you had mentioned them (in regards to Roland). Although I never took issue with the pacing of the book in the overall story, that is a valid point you make. I always took the events in that book as necessary steps to the end ( todash, Callahan, trips to NYC, discovery of King's books, etc. ).

Baxter - I know you may be "King'd out" by the end of Under the Dome, but in case you're not....

Here's the official list of books connected to the Dark Tower series.

And here's a "Roadmap" showing the connections of each of the books (archived from a now-defunct website)

Some "connections" are thin at best, but some are crucial to the overall story.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:17 am

justcheckin wrote:A reply to Baxter's thoughts on the ending... I fell as you do that there could be many alternatives to the story line. However, in the Gunslinger, Roland has many deja vu moments and one is where he says, "sit yourself Jake" and he thinks about who said that before... a woman. I think it is a reference to Susannah. I actually re-read The Gunslinger after I finished the series. I picked up on a lot of things that I didn't catch the first time around.


the problem i have with this is, if roland draws the same ka-tet each time, then it's not just him who is caught in a loop he is doomed to repeat over and over... it's all of them. is it fair to jake, eddie, susannah, and especially oy, that they should be forced to rejoin his quest time and time again, just because he can't manage to break the cycle and free himself of the loop? i like the idea that it's roland's curse to bear alone. maybe he draws a different version of jake, eddie, susannah and oy each time... a version from a different world, like the versions of eddie and jake we see susannah with at the end, who are brothers, have a different last name, etc. as long as none of them are from the keystone world, that would work. i can't remember if jake or eddie or susannah were originally from the keystone world, or if any of the books ever say whether that's the case.

speaking of, does the series remind anyone else of a really long version of groundhog's day... except unlike bill murray, roland isn't aware of the repetition til the very end? just like bill murray though, he's forced to live the same day (or years and years and years) until he gets it right... which might require him to have that horn he ends up with at the end.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby Bloo on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:25 am

thanks for the thoughts on the Audio Books...I've been thinking about rereading the DT series but going the audio book route this time around as I walk alot and am always wanting good stuff to listen too as I do

speaking of Mueller his THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER is REALLY good too...I think I have a couple of Grishams he read as well
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:57 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
justcheckin wrote:A reply to Baxter's thoughts on the ending... I fell as you do that there could be many alternatives to the story line. However, in the Gunslinger, Roland has many deja vu moments and one is where he says, "sit yourself Jake" and he thinks about who said that before... a woman. I think it is a reference to Susannah. I actually re-read The Gunslinger after I finished the series. I picked up on a lot of things that I didn't catch the first time around.


the problem i have with this is, if roland draws the same ka-tet each time, then it's not just him who is caught in a loop he is doomed to repeat over and over... it's all of them. is it fair to jake, eddie, susannah, and especially oy, that they should be forced to rejoin his quest time and time again, just because he can't manage to break the cycle and free himself of the loop? i like the idea that it's roland's curse to bear alone. maybe he draws a different version of jake, eddie, susannah and oy each time... a version from a different world, like the versions of eddie and jake we see susannah with at the end, who are brothers, have a different last name, etc. as long as none of them are from the keystone world, that would work. i can't remember if jake or eddie or susannah were originally from the keystone world, or if any of the books ever say whether that's the case.

speaking of, does the series remind anyone else of a really long version of groundhog's day... except unlike bill murray, roland isn't aware of the repetition til the very end? just like bill murray though, he's forced to live the same day (or years and years and years) until he gets it right... which might require him to have that horn he ends up with at the end.


Very valid points you make which is why the ending is so good... It could be anything that you wanted to dream up for the second time around.
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Re: The Dark Tower

Postby justcheckin on Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:05 pm

Fievel wrote:
justcheckin - I've never thought about the events of Wolves of the Calla as you had mentioned them (in regards to Roland). Although I never took issue with the pacing of the book in the overall story, that is a valid point you make. I always took the events in that book as necessary steps to the end ( todash, Callahan, trips to NYC, discovery of King's books, etc. ).


I think the first time I read it, the pace for me was fine. I felt differently the second time around. For me, the core of the story is the quest and even though I liked the flashback in Wizard and the Calla's problems being solved and even the shoot out in algo siento, the core for me is the drawing of the ka-tet and the continuous progression of the journey. That is probably why I like the Wastelands the last book so much. They are always moving forward.
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