The Zone

by **dimnix** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:45 pm

check it out:

http://chud.com/news/4290

So, no more Danny Elfman in the spidey films. Sounds like spidey 2 was a troubled project...kinda matches the early word that Mori had heard, about the film being in trouble and whatnot - but luckily, it seems that it was a troubled project that turned out fantastic. I thought spidey2 was amazing.

Anyway, it's too bad that Danny Elfman got that vibe working with raimi.

As for how it affects the films...well, elfman's kinda disappointed me in the spidey films by not giving him a clear, memorable theme. However, the music he has done hasnt been horrible. The 'elfman sound', you know...that familiar sound to all his scores, it fits Spideman quite well.

So I guess I hope the next composer can give him that theme he needs, but maybe...I dont know...try to mimic the elfman sound just a tad? Just for continuity.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:48 pm

ARGH! Spider-Man had a fantastic theme! It's just not bombastic beyond relief.

Hey, what word did Mori have on Spidey3 being in trouble? Have a link to that article, because I don't remember reading it.

by **dimnix** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:56 pm

It was spidey 2 (not 3) that mori mentioned being troubled. It was said in chat, not sure about an article.

It was just that he'd been hearing things about the film, about it being troubled and that everyone was disappointed with the current cut of it, reshoots were gonna happen, it was turning into a disaster etc.

and then it turned out to be terrific. Hard to know what was going on with it.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I read the chud.com article. It was pretty harsh. I guess I am surprised that Elfman would be that frank.

And poopoo on you for sending me to CHUD. Ugh.

by **bluebottle** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:47 pm

Yeah, I can't believe Elfman would be so openly nasty.

Meow.

And... I'm starting to think Elfman is running out of steam anyway.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:12 pm

Me too. Because if given a choice between RAIMI or elfman, there is not much of a decision to make.

by **ONeillSG1** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:08 am

Anyone feel a John Williams re-touch is necessary here?

Or maybe James Newton Howard/Hans Zimmer tag team?

Or Graeme Revell re-tooling?

by **thomasgaffney** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:10 am

ONeillSG1 wrote:Anyone feel a John Williams re-touch is necessary here?

Or maybe James Newton Howard/Hans Zimmer tag team?

Or Graeme Revell re-tooling?

Or a Harold Faltermeyer rebirth?

by **ONeillSG1** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:23 am

thomasgaffney wrote:
ONeillSG1 wrote:Anyone feel a John Williams re-touch is necessary here?

Or maybe James Newton Howard/Hans Zimmer tag team?

Or Graeme Revell re-tooling?

Or a Harold Faltermeyer rebirth?

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=3745&sound=http://sounds.wavcentral.com/movies/bev_hills_cop/bhc.mp3

Har Har Har!

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:05 pm

Where's a the Freddy Mercury inna the hour of our a need, eh?

Goddam AIDS...

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:25 pm

Guh, there are other people in Queen than Freddie Mercury!

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:55 pm

Yes, but a the Queen without a the voice, she's a no Queen, eh?

by **anghus** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:30 pm

I love old Elfman stuff, and his stuff on films that arent Burton/Raimi big budget blockbusters (Good Will Hunting) are awesome.

But i haven't heard a good theme out of the man in 5 years. There was nothing memorable about his Spiderman stuff.

Batman on the other hand, i can still hum half the score note for note

by **Adam Balm** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:08 pm

Danny Elfman wrote:He got so intensely attached to the temp music, I couldn’t even adapt my own music. I couldn’t get close enough to me.

It was the raindrops montage, wasn't it?

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:14 pm

Hehe.... you prolly nailed it right onna the head, eh? Nobody can a hum a the Spiderman theme, but everyone, they know a the Raindrops.

Screw Elfman anna his oversized ego, eh? Goddamn putz.

by **TonyWilson** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm

I'd like a less obvious composer to be given a chance. Someone like Michael Nyman or David Arnold.
Although if I had my way I'd go with Morricone.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:40 pm

I'll compose it. Don't beg. I'll do it.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:41 pm

I don't know who composed Out of Sight, but I was watching that yesterday, and they should get that guy to do it. Spidey needs some jazz.

by **Adam Balm** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:01 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Spidey needs some jazz.

Spidey by way of Spike Lee.

They could even do the dolly-cam shot.

by **John-Locke** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:06 pm

Hey when did you pass Toshiro Lucas Burl?

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:10 pm

Whoa, I didn't know I did. Someone upped my post count. I was under 2000 yesterday.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:19 pm

Eh guess I just missed it. Someone go and count my posts, read them all and confirm that a) the number mathces what appears under my avatar and b) that each post actually sounds like something I would say.

Get to it Bluebottle.

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:21 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Eh guess I just missed it. Someone go and count my posts, read them all and confirm that a) the number mathces what appears under my avatar and b) that each post actually sounds like something I would say.

Get to it Bluebottle.

I was just going to comment that I was pissed that I missed the Toshiro Lucas ranking for you Burl.

I'll count up your posts, BB can't count above 17 anyway...

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:21 pm

Fucking CanadiANS!

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:23 pm

ok, I'm done, I only counted 19 posts for you Burl. Sorry, but you're going to have to be demoted to GLIB...

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:45 am

It's a his a DOG, eh? His a dog has a been posting while a the Burl is a working onna his a school project!

HOLY CRAPPA!

Think of a the ramifications!!!!!

by **thomasgaffney** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:16 am

I missed Burl's Toshiro Lucas as well, but I think at post 2525, Harry, Mori, Quint, and Herc go to Burl's house and destroy all his boat designs.

by **Pacino86845** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:39 am

thomasgaffney wrote:
ONeillSG1 wrote:Anyone feel a John Williams re-touch is necessary here?

Or maybe James Newton Howard/Hans Zimmer tag team?

Or Graeme Revell re-tooling?

Or a Harold Faltermeyer rebirth?

I have one idea, and I think Dino will be with me on this: Ennio Morricone.

by **TonyWilson** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:48 am

I said Morricone too Pacino, he seems like a good choice but some films are justwrong for his style very VERY wrong, Mission To Mars wrong.

by **Pacino86845** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:51 am

Shit, I just saw that. Sorry Tony! Good choice!

by **burlivesleftnut** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:24 pm

thomasgaffney wrote:I missed Burl's Toshiro Lucas as well, but I think at post 2525, Harry, Mori, Quint, and Herc go to Burl's house and destroy all his boat designs.

I could kick all of their asses even if I am just a skinny f@g.

by **TonyWilson** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:28 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
thomasgaffney wrote:I missed Burl's Toshiro Lucas as well, but I think at post 2525, Harry, Mori, Quint, and Herc go to Burl's house and destroy all his boat designs.

I could kick all of their asses even if I am just a skinny f@g.

Huh?!?, Burl are you g@y?

by **bluebottle** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:28 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Eh guess I just missed it. Someone go and count my posts, read them all and confirm that a) the number mathces what appears under my avatar and b) that each post actually sounds like something I would say.

Get to it Bluebottle.

I counted all your posts and came up with 1904, and then i recounted and it came up with 87 and then i did a fourth count and came up with a grand total of 3005.

i dunno, burl.

something's screwy.

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:52 pm

Anna get THIS! Johnny-onna-the-Locke, he counted them uppa SIX TIMES anna got these numbers...

1: 4
2: 8
3: 15
4: 16
5: 23
6: 42

What does it alla mean, eh?

by **burlivesleftnut** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:12 pm

This is starting to sound like some analytical question we might learn about on an episode of the Electric Company.

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:18 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:This is starting to sound like some analytical question we might learn about on an episode of the Electric Company

... which would be taught inna the Spiderman sketch where a we read a the words inna his word balloons, eh?

Girl: Spiderman! What does it alla mean?

Spiderman (in word balloon): Damned iffa I know, eh?

Congratulations onna bringing this back onna the topic (sort of) Burl!

by **Gheorghe Zamfir** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:45 pm

Elfman leaving was actually reported quite some time ago. I don't know if this part of the story still remains true, but when this was initially reported earlier this year, it was also being said that Raimi was going to re-hire Chris Young to replace Elfman, Young was one of the composers brought in to finish Elfman's work after he left Spidey 2 after.

by **Adam Balm** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:58 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
Girl: Spiderman! What does it alla mean?

Spiderman (in word balloon): Damned iffa I know, eh?

Holy shit, Spiderman's italian?

by **Brocktune** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:02 pm

it must have been this disharmonious relationship that caused the music for "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" to blow so hard. what a distraction.

by **John-Locke** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:35 pm

Gheorghe Zamfir wrote:Elfman leaving was actually reported quite some time ago. I don't know if this part of the story still remains true, but when this was initially reported earlier this year, it was also being said that Raimi was going to re-hire Chris Young to replace Elfman, Young was one of the composers brought in to finish Elfman's work after he left Spidey 2 after.

Thanks for the heads up Gheorghe, welcome to the Zone.

by **dimnix** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:51 pm

Brocktune wrote:it must have been this disharmonious relationship that caused the music for "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" to blow so hard. what a distraction.

I think the score in Charlie And The Chocolate Factory was fine. The elfman sound with the burton visuals...it's just a combination that works, and suited the darker more fantastical tone of the film.

However...his work with the oompa loompas was pretty hit and miss. Some of the songs were alright...the first one worked, and the one in the squirrel room was good... the rock one, with the television, was terrible. That kinda stuff is really gonna date the film and it felt TOTALLY out of place. Also, Elfman clearly thought it was really funny having the oompa loompas sing at different levels...some high, some low, but whenever it did that it was so obvious that the voice coming from the oompa loompa was fake. Oh well.

by **Brocktune** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:57 pm

i stand corrected. you are absolutely right. my problems with the music to "C & the C Fac." were not with the score, but rather with the atrocious oompa loompa musical numbers. i am a giant elfman mark, so naturally, i want to automatically love everything he does. but in this case, i just couldnt do it. those songs were terrible. if thats the best he could do with that particular pop vocal format, then thank god he put oingo boingo to rest when he did.

by **RogueScribner** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:52 am

Main site has a story about how Danny Elfman is removing his name from Nacho Libre due to some studio interference with his music or somesuch. Couple this little story with the known issues he had with Sam Raimi and Spider-man 2 (and Danny Elfman will not be scoring the third installment) and one has to wonder, what's up with Danny Elfman? Is it just a coincidence he's butted heads with people over his music in the past couple of years, or is there something more going on? Is he getting too finicky, not making compromises when he needs to, not trying to work with the directors to craft the score they want, or are they the ones being anal and unceremoniously replacing his cues and making him not want to be associated with the score any longer?

I have a soft spot for Danny Elfman. I think he's done some brilliant work in his day, even though his batting average is probably around .500. He's not one of the greats, but he's definitely been one of the notables and I'm curious as to what may be going on here.

ETA: I've always wondered why Danny Elfman didn't score Ed Wood. So I did a quick Google search and came across this tidbit at bluntinstrument.org.uk:

Q. Danny scored all Burton's films except Ed Wood. Why is that?

A. Partly true: Danny Elfman has scored all Burton's features since Pee-wee's Big Adventure. He didn't score work prior to this, and did not score all of the Stainboy episodes. And then he didn't score Ed Wood - Howard Shore did. Why? Well, it is common knowledge that some kind of disagreement or even personal animosity grew up at around the time of A Nightmare Before Christmas, but was resolved just in time for Mars Attacks! (Ryan Keveaney claims that Shore was hired for the score but remains silent over how this didn't come about). Prior to Nightmare, Elfman had been bitterly disappointed with the dub of his score to Batman Returns (according to several 1995 interviews), and with an intense relationship between them on this animated feature, tempers appear to have frayed. Whether this was during or after the work, though, is a mystery. A lighthearted comment during a Nightmare scoring session: Elfman "Tim, when was the last time I decked ya?" Burton: "When was our last meeting?" - telling in retrospect, but interviews at the time of the publicity merry-go-round suggest that Elfman was expecting to score Ed Wood. By 1995 Elfman was making oblique hints that he wouldn't be working with Burton again; Michael Fleming (Variety) claimed Elfman backed out in anger after not getting communication or support needed; Elfman eventually saying "Why does any marriage end? We had a falling out, and that was that." (Penthouse). Maybe the swiftness of the change-of-heart was over the perhaps excessive use of Burton's name in conjunction with the film at the expense of composer and director. However, by the time Mars Attacks! was released, it was clear they had sorted out their differences, both admitting they worked well as a team, being on the "same wavelength" (Starlog, 1997). One thing is seems certain: only Elfman really knows what was going through his head at the time. Because even Burton can only suggest a reason for the estrangement: "I think he was mad at me from Nightmare. Nightmare was hard because between Danny, Henry [Selick, director] and Caroline [Thompson, screenplay] we were like a bunch of kids, fighting. That's what I felt like anyway, and I think it was just one of those times when, like in any relationship, we just needed a break, and it was probably good for all of us." (Burton on Burton, 2000)

So this would make three known falling outs, right? Weird.

by **Chilli** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:33 am

He's a gentlemen.

by **RogueScribner** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:35 am

Well that clears up everything.

by **Chilli** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:50 am

I'm here to help... or hinder...

by **RogueScribner** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:55 am

No matter what, I know that in my darkest hour I have you to turn to for support and enlightenment. I love ya, man.

by **Chilli** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:01 am

In all seriousness, his Spider-Man score was shit. The guy should stick to Burton films where his scores are as insane as the film itself, and avoid dealing with any executives or pussy-whipped Sam Raimi's. (The Spider-Man II fiasco sounds like Raimi just got pissed off and started putting his own spin on the material instead of letting a cretinous toss-pot like David Koepp write even more banal dialogue... like that rooftop scene which didn't appear to have either Dafoe or Maguire involved in at all.)

by **RogueScribner** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:07 am

I didn't think Elfman's score for Spider-man was shit at all. It wasn't as bombastic as a lot of his previous work, but I think its softer, more intimate feel suited the film. I'm not saying he hits it out of the park every time, but I've rarely been disappointed with his work.

by **ThisIsTheGirl** on Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:13 am

RogueScribner wrote:I didn't think Elfman's score for Spider-man was shit at all. It wasn't as bombastic as a lot of his previous work, but I think its softer, more intimate feel suited the film. I'm not saying he hits it out of the park every time, but I've rarely been disappointed with his work.

I completely agree - I loved his score for A Simple Plan - really unusual, and I thought his MIB score was pretty cool too

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