Hollywood on Strike! (Actors' Civil War!)

All the dirt. All the top secret stuff. Anything that has to do with the process of getting us to sit and watch something projected on the big screen.

Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:16 pm

feel free to disagree, but I find it funny that people would accuse the DGA of screwing over the WGA when those who supported the WGA countered that while unfortunate, the WGA needs to look after it's own intrests despite what might happen to peripherary employees in the buisness.

how is this different? because we feel bad for the writers?

again, the only ones that will get any real benifit from the new agreement will be the ones already making money hand over fist. the rank and file staff writers are not going to see a cut of residuals or internet marketing/downloads. so I don't feel bad for the WGA at all. I feel bad for the entry level writers out of work who won't benifit from this work stoppage, I feel bad for the carpenters, bit actors, lighting crews, audio techs, grips, scenic artists, stage hands, caterers, camera ops, drivers, ect. who are suffering from this work stoppage.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:19 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:Well, I still think that had the DGA held off on making this deal they could have put pressure on the AMPTP to concede to the WGA's demands. As it stands, I don't see the WGA getting a better deal than this. Furthermore, with the DGA signing a deal...the WGA looks bad publicly the longer they hold out. The person on the street thinks "well the Director's signed, why are the writer's being so greedy".

I think it is undeniable that the DGA signing this deal has undermined the efforts of the WGA. The DGA saw an opportunity and they took it. I get that it isn't their job to look out for the WGA...so I understand why they did it, but I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway.

I think a deal will be forthcoming, but it is going to be a weak one.


I disagree with your previous posts assessment of the WGA strike, but I basically said the same thing about the DGA deal. Does it hurt the WGA? Yes. Is it the job of the DGA to look out for the WGA? No.
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:21 pm

But see you ended it with
leckomaniac wrote:I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway


My point is why do they have to help? Maybe the DGA is fed up with the WGA not working, yet not at the bargining table either?
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:24 pm

King Psyz wrote:But see you ended it with
leckomaniac wrote:I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway


My point is why do they have to help? Maybe the DGA is fed up with the WGA not working, yet not at the bargining table either?


Sigh.

Well if you notice this post is a RESPONSE to Theta's post where he discusses how the DGA might benefit the WGA. Specifically, this section:

Theta]I don't think so, actually. Director residuals are structured quite a bit differently from writing residuals, and the DGA got some concessions that are unprecedented to say the least. That the studios have become willing to agree to a more open accounting process, one based on gross, no less, is, to me, a sign of desperation. They have to give that to the WGA now, and to say residuals accounting is more contentious among the writers is putting that mildly.[/quote]

So I made that post. And then to make my point clear (I was disagreeing with him, BTW, if you didn't catch on to that) I said:

[quote="leckomaniac wrote:
I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway
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Postby Theta on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:49 am

Leckomaniac wrote:Well, I still think that had the DGA held off on making this deal they could have put pressure on the AMPTP to concede to the WGA's demands.


How? Most of the guild isn't working, they can't strike until June, and the AMPTP has great motivation to tell them to get fucked, they'll take what they're offered and like it because that's their position with the writers.

Don't get me wrong, I think the DGA cut this deal as much to get its members back to work as anything else. But I also think you're giving them too much importance in this.

As it stands, I don't see the WGA getting a better deal than this.


I think this deal is the bare minimum they can get, I agree. But I'm pretty sure they can get more. It seems pretty clear that the AMPTP is NOT unified as production companies keep breaking away and as it becomes clearer and clearer that the strike is hurting them a lot more than the writers.

NBC took a bath on the Golden Globes and if you look at the ratings, the reality shows and game shows aren't doing nearly as well as the scripted programs that still have new episodes left. Most of the scripted shows are about to evaporate. Pilot season is effectively dead, forcing the studios to sever contracts with some producers. If the Oscars get picketed, that would be like the Super Bowl not being broadcast.

Furthermore, with the DGA signing a deal...the WGA looks bad publicly the longer they hold out. The person on the street thinks "well the Director's signed, why are the writer's being so greedy".


This isn't 1988. The writers have done a great job of getting out what they want and why it's reasonable, and I sincerely doubt that's going to suddenly change because the DGA chose not to strike and to renew their contract. Besides, it's not Joe Six-Pack who matters. It's the producers, and they're getting sick of this.

That's really what's biting the AMPTP on the ass: the WGA is much more effective at getting the word out and using the Internet, not to mention mobilizing fans of shows to lean on them too, than the AMPTP is about publicizing their position.

The DGA saw an opportunity and they took it. I get that it isn't their job to look out for the WGA...so I understand why they did it, but I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway.


I can think of a few ways:

1) Part of the reason the AMPTP are being dicks is that the WGA was the first line. If they could freeze out the writers, then they could say to the directors and actors "Why should we give you terms better than what the writers got, when you get paid more than they do?" and keep the unions from striking.

That's officially off the table. Basically, everything the WGA demanded that they acknowledge they have with the DGA. Now it's a matter of how far they can push it to get a better deal than the directors. Furthermore, people seem to keep missing the fact that the studios actually agreed to union oversight on their books, more on that in a minute.

2) The terms are no longer amorphous. Arguably this just gives the WGA and the AMPTP more to argue about, but they have specifics now, parameters to haggle over and be set.

3) It's not the DGA's refusal to cross pickets that's killing the AMPTP, it's the SAG. The DGA has basically told the SAG to back the writers until they bleed to get the best deal.

And that's really the thing. If the AMPTP can settle the writer's strike, get the actors to the table and make a deal, they won't transition from one strike to another. They're starting to understand just how exposed they are, and the idea of a long writer's strike followed by a long actor's strike is finally starting to cause fear.

4) The DGA actually forced a change in residuals. Instead of it being an opaque studio process where they give you what they say happened, they have to cough up the books and prove it. That's a victory that puts the unions on far more equal terms, and it's a decision I can guarantee you that some of the AMPTP is going to live to regret.

I think a deal will be forthcoming, but it is going to be a weak one.


I honestly disagree with that, but I guess we'll find out one way or the other.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:09 am

Theta wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:Well, I still think that had the DGA held off on making this deal they could have put pressure on the AMPTP to concede to the WGA's demands.


How? Most of the guild isn't working, they can't strike until June, and the AMPTP has great motivation to tell them to get fucked, they'll take what they're offered and like it because that's their position with the writers.

Don't get me wrong, I think the DGA cut this deal as much to get its members back to work as anything else. But I also think you're giving them too much importance in this.

As it stands, I don't see the WGA getting a better deal than this.


I think this deal is the bare minimum they can get, I agree. But I'm pretty sure they can get more. It seems pretty clear that the AMPTP is NOT unified as production companies keep breaking away and as it becomes clearer and clearer that the strike is hurting them a lot more than the writers.

NBC took a bath on the Golden Globes and if you look at the ratings, the reality shows and game shows aren't doing nearly as well as the scripted programs that still have new episodes left. Most of the scripted shows are about to evaporate. Pilot season is effectively dead, forcing the studios to sever contracts with some producers. If the Oscars get picketed, that would be like the Super Bowl not being broadcast.

Furthermore, with the DGA signing a deal...the WGA looks bad publicly the longer they hold out. The person on the street thinks "well the Director's signed, why are the writer's being so greedy".


This isn't 1988. The writers have done a great job of getting out what they want and why it's reasonable, and I sincerely doubt that's going to suddenly change because the DGA chose not to strike and to renew their contract. Besides, it's not Joe Six-Pack who matters. It's the producers, and they're getting sick of this.

That's really what's biting the AMPTP on the ass: the WGA is much more effective at getting the word out and using the Internet, not to mention mobilizing fans of shows to lean on them too, than the AMPTP is about publicizing their position.

The DGA saw an opportunity and they took it. I get that it isn't their job to look out for the WGA...so I understand why they did it, but I don't see how this helps the WGA in anyway.


I can think of a few ways:

1) Part of the reason the AMPTP are being dicks is that the WGA was the first line. If they could freeze out the writers, then they could say to the directors and actors "Why should we give you terms better than what the writers got, when you get paid more than they do?" and keep the unions from striking.

That's officially off the table. Basically, everything the WGA demanded that they acknowledge they have with the DGA. Now it's a matter of how far they can push it to get a better deal than the directors. Furthermore, people seem to keep missing the fact that the studios actually agreed to union oversight on their books, more on that in a minute.

2) The terms are no longer amorphous. Arguably this just gives the WGA and the AMPTP more to argue about, but they have specifics now, parameters to haggle over and be set.

3) It's not the DGA's refusal to cross pickets that's killing the AMPTP, it's the SAG. The DGA has basically told the SAG to back the writers until they bleed to get the best deal.

And that's really the thing. If the AMPTP can settle the writer's strike, get the actors to the table and make a deal, they won't transition from one strike to another. They're starting to understand just how exposed they are, and the idea of a long writer's strike followed by a long actor's strike is finally starting to cause fear.

4) The DGA actually forced a change in residuals. Instead of it being an opaque studio process where they give you what they say happened, they have to cough up the books and prove it. That's a victory that puts the unions on far more equal terms, and it's a decision I can guarantee you that some of the AMPTP is going to live to regret.

I think a deal will be forthcoming, but it is going to be a weak one.


I honestly disagree with that, but I guess we'll find out one way or the other.


I won't do the whole "broken up quote" thing, but I'll just try to go point by point.

-It is possible I am giving the DGA too much importance, I suppose. But I feel that the looming possibility of an industry wide strike put an enormous amount of pressure to concede. With the DGA off the table, the pressure to concede is less. The pressure is still there and it is very real, but I think the concessions will be a bit less with this new deal in place.

-I am not sure HOW the Writer's could get MORE than the DGA. If they offer them similar terms and the Writer's reject them it is a PR nightmare. This goes with another point, I do feel that one of the best things going for the writer's is popular support. The AMPTP can use the DGA deal against the writer's and force them to concede. With one deal already in place, the longer they hold out the more the writer's look unreasonable.

-I concede that my statement "I don't see how this helps the writers in anyway" was probably inaccurate. If you look at my posts before I specifically pointed out the oversight as being a very clear example of victory for the Guild. So I suppose I would say I don't think it helps the WGA in as significant a way as you purport.

-I still stand by the statement that a deal will be forthcoming and it will be weak. I have a feeling the terms will be quite similar to the ones the DGA got and besides the oversight I think the rest of the terms are significantly less than what they had hopes for. But you are correct, we will see.
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Postby Theta on Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:57 am

-I am not sure HOW the Writer's could get MORE than the DGA. If they offer them similar terms and the Writer's reject them it is a PR nightmare. This goes with another point, I do feel that one of the best things going for the writer's is popular support. The AMPTP can use the DGA deal against the writer's and force them to concede. With one deal already in place, the longer they hold out the more the writer's look unreasonable.


You see, that I think is the key flaw here, you're thinking the AMPTP can leverage this for popular support in the first place. They've been TERRIBLE about getting their position out there, while the writers have been saying "Just give us our pennies on the dollar and the strike's over." Now the writers can say "You gave the directors pennies on the dollar, why can't you give US pennies on the dollar?"

-I still stand by the statement that a deal will be forthcoming and it will be weak. I have a feeling the terms will be quite similar to the ones the DGA got and besides the oversight I think the rest of the terms are significantly less than what they had hopes for. But you are correct, we will see.


For the record, I don't think the writers are going to get absolutely everything they're asking for. But I think they'll get a better deal than they were offered.
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Postby Kagemusha on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:07 pm

I thought that producers were good at brokering deals. Putzes.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:15 pm

WGA have reached an agreement with Lionsgate and Marvel Studios.

I have to believe that with all of these other studios signing interim deals that the strike will be coming to an end soon. I just don't know how much longer the AMPTP can afford to hold out when all of these other studios are starting up production.

Marvel Source.

LG Source.
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:17 pm

this might be the way it all ends, studios having to broker their own deals.

and honestly the way the AMPTP have fuckered this up, that might not be such a bad thing for either side...
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Postby Zarles on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:23 pm

If that's how it needs to go, then so be it. The AMPTP deserves to get stepped over at this point.
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Postby junesquad on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:08 am

King Psyz wrote:this might be the way it all ends, studios having to broker their own deals.

and honestly the way the AMPTP have fuckered this up, that might not be such a bad thing for either side...


I say that whatever needs to be done... NEEDS TO BE DONE. I'm sick and tired of this shit and they need to just suck it up and do their jobs. I want my Smallville to be able to finish their season.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:21 am

A major breakthrough has reportedly occurred in the negotiations. Word is a deal could be reached as early as this week.

WGA and AMPTP Close to a Deal?
Source: The Associated Press February 3, 2008

A breakthrough in contract talks has been reached between the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) and the Writers Guild of America (WGA) and could lead to a tentative deal as early as next week, reports The Associated Press.

The two sides breached the gap Friday on the thorniest issues, those concerning compensation for projects distributed via the Internet. Significant progress has reportedly been made and a deal might be announced within a week.

Major points of contention include how much and when writers are paid for projects delivered online after they've been broadcast on TV.

The studios have been insisting that programs be streamed online for a certain period, deemed promotional, during which writers would forgo residuals. When payment kicked in, the companies sought to limit it to a flat $1,200 fee, while the guild wanted a percentage of a distributor's revenue.

Although work remains to be done on elements of the agreement, prospects for a deal appeared solid. The tentative agreement would have to be approved by a majority of guild members.


Source
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Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:56 am

And just in time for the Oscars.
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Postby RogueScribner on Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:59 am

After the minimalist Golden Globes ceremony, I guess the AMPTP didn't want to risk a writer-less Oscar telecast.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:15 am

Good to hear. I hope this deal materializes.
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Postby Vegeta on Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:30 am

Agreed, I'd like to see more than reality shows on TV next fall.
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Postby The Vicar on Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:40 am

Leckomaniac wrote:A major breakthrough has reportedly occurred in the negotiations. Word is a deal could be reached as early as this week.

WGA and AMPTP Close to a Deal?
Source: The Associated Press February 3, 2008

A breakthrough in contract talks has been reached between the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) and the Writers Guild of America (WGA) and could lead to a tentative deal as early as next week, reports The Associated Press.

The two sides breached the gap Friday on the thorniest issues, those concerning compensation for projects distributed via the Internet. Significant progress has reportedly been made and a deal might be announced within a week.

Major points of contention include how much and when writers are paid for projects delivered online after they've been broadcast on TV.

The studios have been insisting that programs be streamed online for a certain period, deemed promotional, during which writers would forgo residuals. When payment kicked in, the companies sought to limit it to a flat $1,200 fee, while the guild wanted a percentage of a distributor's revenue.

Although work remains to be done on elements of the agreement, prospects for a deal appeared solid. The tentative agreement would have to be approved by a majority of guild members.


Source


Please. Do it.
Any more "reality tv" and there will be blood.

No more greedy execs
trying to pimp a working bloke out of
every nickle and dime.
No writers, no show.
Have they got that yet?
.
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Postby junesquad on Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:25 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:A major breakthrough has reportedly occurred in the negotiations. Word is a deal could be reached as early as this week.

WGA and AMPTP Close to a Deal?
Source: The Associated Press February 3, 2008

A breakthrough in contract talks has been reached between the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) and the Writers Guild of America (WGA) and could lead to a tentative deal as early as next week, reports The Associated Press.

The two sides breached the gap Friday on the thorniest issues, those concerning compensation for projects distributed via the Internet. Significant progress has reportedly been made and a deal might be announced within a week.

Major points of contention include how much and when writers are paid for projects delivered online after they've been broadcast on TV.

The studios have been insisting that programs be streamed online for a certain period, deemed promotional, during which writers would forgo residuals. When payment kicked in, the companies sought to limit it to a flat $1,200 fee, while the guild wanted a percentage of a distributor's revenue.

Although work remains to be done on elements of the agreement, prospects for a deal appeared solid. The tentative agreement would have to be approved by a majority of guild members.


Source


Wahoo... if this pulls through, Smallville won't have to end early. The writers had several shows done, so they quit showing them every week in hopes that the strike would end and they could pick up and finish the season. If that happens... I'll be happy.
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Postby Kagemusha on Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:46 pm

Vegeta wrote:Agreed, I'd like to see more that reality shows on TV next fall.

Yes? Aren't they fun? Something like getting your foot run over by a steam roller. That kind of fun.
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Postby Vegeta on Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:55 pm

Kagemusha wrote:
Vegeta wrote:Agreed, I'd like to see more than reality shows on TV next fall.

Yes? Aren't they fun? Something like getting your foot run over by a steam roller. That kind of fun.


I loathe reality television. Therefore, I've been reduced to watching very little TV as of recent.

fingers crossed that this is worked out very shortly.
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Postby Fawst on Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:37 pm

American Idol is always good for a laugh, though.

Moment of Truth, or I May/May Not Be A Liar, or I'll Spill Secrets For Cash, or whatever the fuck it was called was hoooooooooooooooooooorrible. I can't believe it had such high ratings, it was dreadful, over-produced, there was no sense of tension or drama, and they set all those people up to be douches. Like sending the studly chick in to ask if studly people disgust one guy. OH MAN, that's so fucking HARD CORE. Meanwhile these questions have already been answered previously and the lie-detection portion was finalized. Weak. WEAK! DRINK YOUR WEAK LEMON DRINK, REALITY TELEVISION PRODUCERS! DRINK IT SLOWLY, SO AS TO TASTE THE BITTER FAILURE AS IT FLOWS OVER YOUR GULLET!!!

Yah...

So I hope the strike ends like soon, cuz I don't want an 8 episode season of Lost. I want that like I want an updated version of Donna Reed.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:34 am

The WGA is preparing to present the AMPTP deal terms to its members. Any potential deal has to be approved by a majority of the members.

WGA to Present AMPTP Deal Terms to Members
Source: WGA February 6, 2008

The Writers Guild of America released the following statement to its members on Tuesday:

Letter from WGAE President Michael Winship and WGAW President Patric Verrone

To Our Fellow Members,

As Negotiating Committee Chair John Bowman wrote you last night, we are continuing to negotiate the terms of a tentative agreement with the AMPTP. We anticipate that we will be able to present the terms of that agreement to you in the next few days. In order to have a full discussion with you of the terms and how they were reached, and in order to get your input before making recommendations or decisions, we have scheduled membership meetings for current-active members only for this Saturday, February 9, in New York and Los Angeles.

The New York meeting will take place at 2 pm ET in the Broadway Ballroom of the Crowne Plaza Hotel at Times Square, 1606 Broadway (Broadway and 49th Street).

The Los Angeles meeting will take place at 7 pm PT in the Shrine Auditorium (665 W. Jefferson Blvd.).

We urge you to attend. We have gotten to this point in our negotiation as the direct result of the power of this strike, which each of you has generated. Neither the Negotiating Committee, nor the East Council or the West Board, will take action on any contract until after the membership meetings are held and your voices have been heard. We are all in this together.

Best,

Michael Winship
President
Writers Guild of America, East

Patric M. Verrone
President
Writers Guild of America, West


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Postby Spifftacular SquirrelGirl on Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:02 am

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this will put an end to the whole strike issue. Can't... stand... more...reality shows...
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Postby Fawst on Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:19 am

Good news, absolutely! And long overdue.
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Postby RogueScribner on Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:20 pm

I hope this pans out. TV is more of a wasteland now than it usually is!

Plus I want Lost to film more episodes! :)
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Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:17 am

Michael Eisner tells CNBC that the strike is over...


but Nikki Finke says not so fast.


But I can't imagine that if the negotiators agreed, the Guild members would reject it. So its probably over in the next few days.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:39 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:Michael Eisner tells CNBC that the strike is over...


but Nikki Finke says not so fast.


But I can't imagine that if the negotiators agreed, the Guild members would reject it. So its probably over in the next few days.


Cross-post from the Breaking Through thread.

moviementor wrote:Hey, here's a heads-up...great news...I was chatting with a hollywood contact yesterday (successful screenwriter with a long list of credits), and he tells me the strike is over in the next couple of days...he says they're getting a really solid deal, which is great news. He told me they're getting an even more favorable deal than the DGA (kinda hard to believe, but great news either way)...
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Postby Zarles on Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:57 pm

Details of the tentative deal are here.
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Postby Archive on Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:29 pm

For thems that need the knowin'...

I haven't read the whole thread, but in case folks aren't aware, the most balanced and thorough strike coverage I've found is at www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com, maintained by Nikki Finke.
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Postby junesquad on Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:49 pm

KRYPTON SITE WRITER'S STRIKE UPDATE

Strike Update
Many people are sending us articles that the months-long writers' strike could soon be over. Many of the articles have quotes attributed to the former Disney head Michael Eisner.

However, a deal is not yet official. The writers are meeting on Saturday to discuss the proposed deal; perhaps after then there will be answers but nothing is set in stone yet.

As soon as we here at KryptonSite hear that thr strike is over, we will be posting about it, don't worry! Until then, let's just hope that this proposed deal is something fair that the writers will approve of.
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Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:00 pm

from the sound of the deal, the writers arnt getting everything they wanted, and it sounds like they have to wait 17 days after the content they worked on appears on the web in order to to collect some royalties.

17 days... Really? if its say LOST, 17 days, two more episodes have aired already..

Good to know that Unions are still working.
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Postby Zarles on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:09 pm

Um, bullshit.

What's worse - having to wait two weeks, or never ever getting the chance to ever collect any kind of royalties on what you wrote? Ever?
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Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:13 pm

Zarles wrote:Um, bullshit.

What's worse - having to wait two weeks, or never ever getting the chance to ever collect any kind of royalties on what you wrote? Ever?


I might be misinterputing it, but from the agreement that I've been reading on Yahoo, the writers wont get any money from the inital 2 weeks of said episodes airing online. Once past that, writers get paid.

Dose one really think that over 6 million people are going to keep watching the same old episodes for two weeks straight?
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:56 pm

bastard_robo wrote:
Zarles wrote:Um, bullshit.

What's worse - having to wait two weeks, or never ever getting the chance to ever collect any kind of royalties on what you wrote? Ever?


I might be misinterputing it, but from the agreement that I've been reading on Yahoo, the writers wont get any money from the inital 2 weeks of said episodes airing online. Once past that, writers get paid.

Dose one really think that over 6 million people are going to keep watching the same old episodes for two weeks straight?


I think in that situation they are counting on the audience that missed an episode or two and would rather stream it from the official site than wait for a torrent to come down. I moved a few months ago and wasn't able to tape stuff for a while and there are several shows I need to catch up on. I am exactly who they are counting on for eyeballs after the first two weeks.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:38 pm

Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote:
bastard_robo wrote:
Zarles wrote:Um, bullshit.

What's worse - having to wait two weeks, or never ever getting the chance to ever collect any kind of royalties on what you wrote? Ever?


I might be misinterputing it, but from the agreement that I've been reading on Yahoo, the writers wont get any money from the inital 2 weeks of said episodes airing online. Once past that, writers get paid.

Dose one really think that over 6 million people are going to keep watching the same old episodes for two weeks straight?


I think in that situation they are counting on the audience that missed an episode or two and would rather stream it from the official site than wait for a torrent to come down. I moved a few months ago and wasn't able to tape stuff for a while and there are several shows I need to catch up on. I am exactly who they are counting on for eyeballs after the first two weeks.


Problem with this is that

A) Torrents are becoming easier to use, and more wildely accepted
B) There are other STREAMING sites out there besides YOUTUBE, that have tv shows posted.

I my self found a link site that had just about every good tv show from teh last 20 years, STREAMING!

Ad free mind you too.

While yes, not everyone is going to use both of these, I think the producers pulled a fast one and got away with it... Its like a new release movie and the theater its shown at. Your average blockbuster will pull what... $50 mil opening weekend.. Theaters get between %35-40 the first two weekends. The movie become profitable to the theater after its third or forth week showing, but by then, unless its fucking titanic, most of the population has seen said film. Take Cloverfield. Fantastic numbers opening weekend, now its being dropped out of most theaters as its not pulling numbers any more and the theaters arnt making money, yet the studios have made their profit already.

This is probably how its going to be with the WGA for a while, thus proving that this strike was fucking pointless and if writers wanted so much for their "WORK" (mind you half of them cant write a good movie or show worth shit) create their own, privately owned material and charge people on the net to watch it. Hundreds of companies have been doing this since 03 and apparently the WGA has never heard of this?
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:52 pm

How was it pointless? So far they've gone from nothing to something. If you see no difference then I'm sure your employer would gladly start paying you $0/hr if you inquire as much on Monday.
Dose one really think that over 6 million people are going to keep watching the same old episodes for two weeks straight?


Seeing how people have been watching the same episodes of I Love Lucy in syndication for 50+ years it's not unreasonable to assume they will just as readily watch content that is only 17 days old. As cable television continues to merge with the internet over the next decade people will be watching even more streaming "re-runs".
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Postby Zarles on Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:40 am

bastard robo wrote:I think the producers pulled a fast one and got away with it


Really? Would you care to get the WGA on the phone once this thing is signed and tell them that? I'm sure they'll all be thrilled to finally have the wool pulled from their eyes by the likes of you, despite the weeks and months they've just spent picketing and fighting for what they're about to rightfully get.

robo, your willful amount of ignorance and arrogance towards this whole topic is not only insulting to the people who have spent all of their time down on those lines for the past 2+ months, but it's also derogatory, belittling, and just plain wrong. You can rationalize the "more widely accepted" bit torrent streaming of television shows and movies all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that every time you and anyone else does it, the people that wrote it don't get shit. Not a dime. Ask yourself - do you care? Stealing DVDs is pretty easy, too. Should we all brush up on that, as well?

It doesn't MATTER if you yourself don't think that what some of those writers are writing is any good. You know why? Because there are more audiences out there than just you, robo. For every one television show or movie that you think is the absolute worst piece of horrible dogshit ever put to film, I guarantee you that there are at least a million people out there who think the exact opposite of you, and would gladly pay those writers and that studio to get to watch that piece of horrible dogshit whenever they want. Tell me - who the hell are you to deny those people that right? Who the hell are you to say that all the people that you personally don't think are talented writers shouldn't get to work? Should they have to take on the added responsibility and financial strain of starting their own production/distribution companies just to get their work out there?

This strike was not in any way "fucking pointless". Sure, maybe the writers didn't get ALL they wanted, but strikes NEVER end that way. Strikes are about compromise and taking a stand, and that last part is what is truly important here. This strike signified the acknowledgment of the change in the distribution in television and movies that has been coming for quite a while. Those who were on strike knew the shockwaves they were sending throughout the industry, and they knew how many people were put out of their jobs because of it. Do you think they enjoyed having that much weight on their backs? I'd think not, but personally, I'm glad they did it because it was THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Maybe it will inspire one of the other unions out there to stand up for themselves when the execs start treating them like shit, too.

I've asked you this before, but what if it was you? What if you wrote a hit TV show that millions of people wanted to download and didn't mind watching ad content with? What would you do - tell them all not to? Keep the money that that ad content provides to both the studio AND the creative talent to the bare minimum just for the hell of it? Much like the majority of your arguments in this thread, robo, all that really seems like to me is pretty damn selfish.
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Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:04 am

What he said.
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Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 am

It doesn't MATTER if you yourself don't think that what some of those writers are writing is any good. You know why? Because there are more audiences out there than just you, robo. For every one television show or movie that you think is the absolute worst piece of horrible dogshit ever put to film, I guarantee you that there are at least a million people out there who think the exact opposite of you, and would gladly pay those writers and that studio to get to watch that piece of horrible dogshit whenever they want. Tell me - who the hell are you to deny those people that right? Who the hell are you to say that all the people that you personally don't think are talented writers shouldn't get to work? Should they have to take on the added responsibility and financial strain of starting their own production/distribution companies just to get their work out there?


Its comments like these is why we have movies like Step up (uno and dos) You Got Served, Redline and the many many horrible parody movies that make money....

This whole argument is moot anyway over getting paid for net broadcasting... look at the music industry, its falling to pieces, all thanks to the net.. While you might say that Itunes is keeping things alive, there are more people willing to download for free than to pay.

In about 5 years, the whole industry, DGA, WGA and everything in between will be bitching about the net. Hell, many filmmakers are blaming illigal downloads for the "POOR" B.O. their films did (Hostel 2, Halloween and Sicko all come to mind)

Bootlegging is getting easier by the day. Is it a concious thing to do.. no, but honestly if I had a choice of watching, say AVP2 in the theater and forking over 10 bucks and being horribly let down, or watching the bootleg thats DVD quality and not losing anything, I'd choose the later, and I'll bet $5 that if you ask any one on the street, they'd do the same thing.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:33 am

bastard_robo wrote: Is it a concious thing to do.. no

So you unconsciously steal from people?
bastard_robo wrote:honestly if I had a choice of watching, say AVP2 in the theater and forking over 10 bucks and being horribly let down, or watching the bootleg thats DVD quality and not losing anything, I'd choose the later, and I'll bet $5 that if you ask any one on the street, they'd do the same thing.

Congrats you are a dirt bag thief.
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Postby Al Shut on Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:43 am

Stay nice everyone.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:00 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:
bastard_robo wrote: Is it a concious thing to do.. no

So you unconsciously steal from people?
bastard_robo wrote:honestly if I had a choice of watching, say AVP2 in the theater and forking over 10 bucks and being horribly let down, or watching the bootleg thats DVD quality and not losing anything, I'd choose the later, and I'll bet $5 that if you ask any one on the street, they'd do the same thing.

Congrats you are a dirt bag thief.


As a avid movie fan, as a person who work for a theater, I came to the conclusion long ago that most movies arnt worth paying over $10 bucks to see. For the 6 years that I worked for a movie theater I saw hundreds of movies and didnt pay a dime, and that was great, as there were a huge chunk that were bland or just sucked. And I can tell everyone of you who have never worked for a theater before, EVERY EMPLOYEE dose this. Hell, many thursday nights are set aside for the work force to watch the newest incoming film privately with out paying.

Yes there are movies that I will gladly pay the money to see. Anything by Wes Anderson, Kevin Smith, Joss Whedon, Tentpol movies that look like they got it right... But to be perfectly honest, the bland and crap out weigh the good that comes out every year. And its this huge base that just pisses me off when I Leave a theater, knowing I just gave my hard earned money to everyone that worked on said film that just wasted my time. Cloverfield is the best example recently. Pumped to see it, dissapointed as hell by it. And I did feel cheated out of my cash when I left the theater. ANd the BO shows that many others felt the same way. Right now, I can tell you that there is already a bootleg copy on the net, and those who didnt bother to see it now have access to it.

Law suits and federal injuctions wont ever stop bootlegging, we live in a country that is fuled by getting something for nothing.

Do I support it.. not really, but Im not going to stop it. I'll gladly take a bootleg copy of a film if Im getting something of good quality.

And this is the thing that irks me the most. Yes money is lost, but eveything makes it seem that no one got paid while working on sets of TV or films. As everyone there from Props to the Director were doing all the work for the fuck of it. People get paid once their job is done, unless hollywood as hypnotized everyone into waiting for a BO return to get a check for their inital work, then they get what they deserve.
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Postby Nordling on Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:21 am

Zarles is a man among men. Well fucking said, my man.
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Postby King Of Nowhere on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:33 pm

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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:59 am

bastard_robo wrote:And this is the thing that irks me the most. Yes money is lost, but eveything makes it seem that no one got paid while working on sets of TV or films. As everyone there from Props to the Director were doing all the work for the fuck of it. People get paid once their job is done, unless hollywood as hypnotized everyone into waiting for a BO return to get a check for their inital work, then they get what they deserve.

Not to derail the thread but this statement is just ridiculous.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby Theta on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:18 am

bastard_robo wrote:
In about 5 years, the whole industry, DGA, WGA and everything in between will be bitching about the net. Hell, many filmmakers are blaming illigal downloads for the "POOR" B.O. their films did (Hostel 2, Halloween and Sicko all come to mind)


Yeah, it's easier to do that then admit your movie sucks. The reality is most people saw the reviews and skipped it in favor of the DVD: all the movies you cite did boffo retail sales and rentals when they hit disc, if they were a failure in the first place.

Bootlegging is getting easier by the day. Is it a concious thing to do.. no,


YES. You don't subconsciously type a title into a search engine to find a torrent for it.

but honestly if I had a choice of watching, say AVP2 in the theater and forking over 10 bucks and being horribly let down, or watching the bootleg thats DVD quality and not losing anything, I'd choose the later, and I'll bet $5 that if you ask any one on the street, they'd do the same thing.


A) Where are these alleged DVD quality torrents? I have never seen a single theater bootleg that wasn't ass. DVD rips, maybe, but the selection of THOSE is fucking pitiful.

B) Here's an idea: maybe, if you think you're not going to like the movie, you could wait until it is legally free (i.e. on cable) or so pitifully cheap (i.e. on Netflix) that to NOT pay for it is actually more trouble than it's worth. You could even not watch it at all.

Let me make something clear here: You are not entitled to instant gratification, and your desire for instant gratification does not entitle you to steal things.
This comment is in no way meant to insist your opinion is wrong or be considered an edict, solely this poster's opinion. That said, you are still a fool and will kneel before me in supplication.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Is the End Nigh?!?)

Postby bastard_robo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:29 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:
bastard_robo wrote:And this is the thing that irks me the most. Yes money is lost, but eveything makes it seem that no one got paid while working on sets of TV or films. As everyone there from Props to the Director were doing all the work for the fuck of it. People get paid once their job is done, unless hollywood as hypnotized everyone into waiting for a BO return to get a check for their inital work, then they get what they deserve.

Not to derail the thread but this statement is just ridiculous.


Im just cant get over this whole mess.

Writers are bitching that they want more money after being paid for their services based on if the material they produced dose well or not..

This shit is baically like tipping... (which I only tip maybe a maximum of $5 at any time) The server is paid to do their job, and along the way, people starting throwing down extra cash on top of their bill for some guy to do what they are paid to do.

(Hence why the intial pay for waiting tables sucks ass now)

((or tipping for some high school fuck for pouring your coffe at starbucks))

If half the writers actually OWNED the properties that they worked on, either licensing the properties out, or forking over their own money on the project, I could see this being diffrent, but they dont. I wont ever see why anyone, writer, Director, or actor, should get paid anything "EXTRA" except in ULTRA rare occasions anything more than what they get paid when they agree to take on what ever project they decide to do. And if they cant "LIVE" off what they make, then obviously they're doing something wrong financially.

As much as everyone hates the studios and producers, they're the ones actually PAYING to have these projects made, and sadly, they're the ones with the most to lose. When a movie bombs, they take the brunt of it, everyone else already got their dime. When a movie dose well, they get their return on their investment. Its basic bussines

Lucas had it right when he wanted to be independant, now look at him!
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:33 am

If you are so concerned with the studios making money why are you stealing from them?

The writers/directors/actors pay isn't extra money. All three of these unions took pay cuts in the past to work in a system where in pay was deferred until later and incentive based. If you work on a movie that does well the larger your residuals thus the incentive to produce more popular (and profitable for the studios) work.

It's also good to find out that you aren't only a thief but a skinflint to boot.

Bravo to Theta.
Last edited by Chairman Kaga on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:36 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:If you are so concerned with the studios aking money why are you stealing from them?

The writers/directors/actors pay isn't extra money. All three of these unions took pay cuts in the past to work in a system where in pay was deferred until later and incentive based. If you work on a movie that does well the larger your residuals thus the incentive to produce more popular (and profitable for the studios) work.


You miss the point. Because Epic Movie sucks and makes money...he has the right to steal movies he enjoys. Why should he pay for something he enjoys when other movies suck? Like, duh. It makes perfect sense.

:roll:
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