Hollywood on Strike! (Actors' Civil War!)

All the dirt. All the top secret stuff. Anything that has to do with the process of getting us to sit and watch something projected on the big screen.

Postby papalazeru on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:20 am

MasterWhedon wrote:Devil's advocate time again!!

Here's a point that was brought up on talk radio last night, that I think is worth considering:

The guy who invented the socket wrench did so when we was working for Sears. Since he was working for Sears at the time, Sears owened the invention and all of the rights to it. This guy never saw a dime outside his normal 9-to-5 paycheck even though the socket wrench took off and became the everyday tool we know and love. Sears made a fortune off the guy, who invented the tool as part of his regular work duties.

So, why is entertainment different? Why is it we assume musicians, authors, artists, etc. are entitled to residuals from their works--outside of their up-front pay--when other "inventors" aren't necessarily? If, as a screenwriter, you enter into a contract with a studio wherein the studio owns all rights to your work product, as 99% of screenwriters do, why should you be entitled to further compensation (assuming they've paid you fairly up-front)?

I'm not saying I agree with any of these points, so please no lectures. I'm just interested in hearing your thoughts.



That's got a simple answer. The entertainment industry is different because it's fuelled by ego rather than design.
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Postby DaleTremont on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:27 am

Okay...I support the WGA completely on this one but...for some reason seeing people picketing just embarasses me. The kind of flush of embarassment one might have gotten, say, watching Jason Biggs make love to a pie. I don't know what it is! It was even worse at college! Every damn day I had to walk by some group of righteous neo-hippies holding up handmade signs and chanting about the latest cause celebre. And then obviously the alpha-female of the group would stand on a statue with a mega-phone and rant against Society, The Man, The System, The University, etc...
Ughh I feel like such a horrible O'Reailly spawn making fun of my political roots but there you have it. I want to throw things at picketers. I just can't help myself.
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Now w/ 100% More Strike!!!!)

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:30 am

bastard_robo wrote:Principle didnt pay their car payments or put food on their table...


Man if Robo had his way the life of an employee would be akin to psuedo-slavery.

"NO ONE EVER STRIKE BECAUSE PRINCIPLE DOESNT PAY THE BILLS"

"But Mr. Robo sir, i lost my fingers because the machinery was unsafe and the money I get barely covers the bills. Shouldnt we stand on principle and fight for rights we feel we deserve?"

"RIGHTS DONT PAY THE BILLS!!!!!"

The WGA is doing what they are doing so they dont fall into the same trap of short sightedness that got them to this point from 1989. And they 100% right and justified in doing so.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:01 am

Ronald D. Moore had this to say from the picket line:

Ronald D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica): "At Battlestar, we had a very specific situation last year, dealing with webisodes, which opened my eyes to the problems. When we were approached to do Galactica webisodes, the studio's position was they didn't want to pay anyone to do it—they considered it promotional material. They weren't going to pay any of the writers or the actors or the directors to do it, which we thought was crazy. We refused to do it, and eventually came to an accommodation where they said they would pay us, but then when we were almost done, they decided they weren't going to credit anybody. They weren't going to acknowledge anybody who wrote it. And then I refused to deliver the webisodes, and they came and took them anyway, which is their right since they own the show...but it really made me aware of these issues. I mean, my staff writer, who is the lowest man on the totem pole, they want him to do all this work for another media, not pay him for it, and then make money off of his work. Ultimately, that's why we're here, because that's just wrong."
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Postby Vynson on Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:23 am

MasterWhedon wrote:So, why is entertainment different? Why is it we assume musicians, authors, artists, etc. are entitled to residuals from their works--outside of their up-front pay--when other "inventors" aren't necessarily?


If inventors had a union and more foresight, perhaps this hapless fellow wouldn't have entered into an agreement that amounted to being @$$Fu[t without even the courtesy of a reach around. That people get skrewed over in one industry doesn't mean that writers should smile and take it.

It's high time writers stood up and proclaimed their value and insisted on being treated like the originators of entertainment and paid a proper percentage of the trains they put in motion.

And remember... these residuals are percentages. A dime on a DVD is not the deal, but a rough estimate. The proposal is actually based on percentage. If a project fails, there won't be a lot of money to get a percentage of.

The socket wrench guy should have gone to management and said "I've got a fantastic idea. Let's make a reasonable deal about the profits and I'll tell you all about it. Otherwise, I'll quit and take my cool idea elsewhere."

I feel for the guy, but to suggest that screenwriters should voluntarily partake in this lack of foresight is not to play "devil's advocate," but to endorse stupidity and servitude rather than learning from this poor guy's error.
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:31 am

But surely the difference between inventors and writers is their contracts?

Inventors working for a corporation get a monthly salary.

Hollywood (and presumably most) writers work on commission and deferred payment (residuals).

If the socket wrench guy was offered 50 cents for his design and told, "You'll get a cent for every 1000 wrenches we sell", he may have rather had the monthly salary?

He doesn't know upfront that a particular design will take off, maybe his next patented design was a device to remove pips from lemons that no has ever wanted or used. He still got his salary though!
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:36 am

CeeBeeUK wrote:But surely the difference between inventors and writers is their contracts?

Inventors working for a corporation get a monthly salary.

Hollywood (and presumably most) writers work on commission and deferred payment (residuals).

If the socket wrench guy was offered 50 cents for his design and told, "You'll get a cent for every 1000 wrenches we sell", he may have rather had the monthly salary?

He doesn't know upfront that a particular design will take off, maybe his next patented design was a device to remove pips from lemons that no has ever wanted or used. He still got his salary though!


This is precisely it. The writers often rely on residuals to support them during the long periods between employment. This allows them to be free to create.

Bill Prady, head honcho of frosh comedy The Big Bang Theory, commented on the Housewives creator's famed spec-scripted sale that resulted in the soapy megahit: "Marc Cherry will say that he couldn't get a job to save his life, and he was living purely on residuals from previous work, and during that time, he developed and wrote Desperate Housewives, which is now a property worth untold millions. And the studios, through residuals, funded that development at a very low cost."
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:06 am

Leckomaniac wrote:Ronald D. Moore had this to say from the picket line:

Ronald D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica): "At Battlestar, we had a very specific situation last year, dealing with webisodes, which opened my eyes to the problems. When we were approached to do Galactica webisodes, the studio's position was they didn't want to pay anyone to do it—they considered it promotional material. They weren't going to pay any of the writers or the actors or the directors to do it, which we thought was crazy. We refused to do it, and eventually came to an accommodation where they said they would pay us, but then when we were almost done, they decided they weren't going to credit anybody. They weren't going to acknowledge anybody who wrote it. And then I refused to deliver the webisodes, and they came and took them anyway, which is their right since they own the show...but it really made me aware of these issues. I mean, my staff writer, who is the lowest man on the totem pole, they want him to do all this work for another media, not pay him for it, and then make money off of his work. Ultimately, that's why we're here, because that's just wrong."


Ronald D. Moore looks like he protested in the most legal way possible. If only we knew the details of his contract. Was it in his contract that he doesn't get paid for any promotional material he writes?

I really do appreciate it when people with such calibre as this take a stand with everyone else. It makes me feel human and there are people willing to fight the machine. And I'm not just talking about TV.

Join your Union people!
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Postby Zarles on Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:34 am

DaleTremont wrote:Okay...I support the WGA completely on this one but...for some reason seeing people picketing just embarasses me. The kind of flush of embarassment one might have gotten, say, watching Jason Biggs make love to a pie. I don't know what it is! It was even worse at college! Every damn day I had to walk by some group of righteous neo-hippies holding up handmade signs and chanting about the latest cause celebre. And then obviously the alpha-female of the group would stand on a statue with a mega-phone and rant against Society, The Man, The System, The University, etc...
Ughh I feel like such a horrible O'Reailly spawn making fun of my political roots but there you have it. I want to throw things at picketers. I just can't help myself.


Does it get uncomfortable constantly keeping the heel of your jackboot pressed against the throat of the working man? ;)

You wanna throw something? Throw sandwiches. Especially at all those hot alpha-females.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:25 am

Fox changes their line-up:
[quote="the tv addict"]
In light of the recently announced strike by The Writers Guild of America, FOX has revised its lineup for January and the remainder of the 2007-2008 season. (The new schedule is subject to change, pending resolution of the strike.)

The highly anticipated drama TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES will have a two-night premiere on Sunday, Jan. 13 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) and Monday, Jan. 14 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT), the show’s regular time period. PRISON BREAK, which has its last November airing on Monday, Nov. 12 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT), returns to Mondays (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) beginning Jan. 14.

The seventh season premiere of 24 is being postponed to ensure that “Day 7â€
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:26 am

I wonder whether Hollywood will follow a Thailand approach to 'picket lines' or how about a Pakistan approach?
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Postby so sorry on Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:26 pm

godzillasushi wrote:Just a friendly reminder, Lost Season 3 comes out on DVD December 11th.


So should I NOT buy this until the writers get their cut? :lol:
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 pm

papalazeru wrote:
Join your Union people!

Why do you make King Psyz cry?
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:52 pm

so sorry wrote:
godzillasushi wrote:Just a friendly reminder, Lost Season 3 comes out on DVD December 11th.


So should I NOT buy this until the writers get their cut? :lol:



Fantastic! Buy it now before the producers put up the price!! :D
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:23 pm

CeeBeeUK wrote:Interesting list here detailing where shows are up to with production, scripts, etc.


Updated...
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Postby DaleTremont on Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:30 pm

Zarles wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:Okay...I support the WGA completely on this one but...for some reason seeing people picketing just embarasses me. The kind of flush of embarassment one might have gotten, say, watching Jason Biggs make love to a pie. I don't know what it is! It was even worse at college! Every damn day I had to walk by some group of righteous neo-hippies holding up handmade signs and chanting about the latest cause celebre. And then obviously the alpha-female of the group would stand on a statue with a mega-phone and rant against Society, The Man, The System, The University, etc...
Ughh I feel like such a horrible O'Reailly spawn making fun of my political roots but there you have it. I want to throw things at picketers. I just can't help myself.


Does it get uncomfortable constantly keeping the heel of your jackboot pressed against the throat of the working man? ;)


Only when it means I have to strain my back to whip their children working 18 hour days in my industrial factory.
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Postby RogueScribner on Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:35 pm

We've heard a lot from the writers side of things. Have any of the studios being speaking up this week?
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:53 pm

Vynson wrote:I feel for the guy, but to suggest that screenwriters should voluntarily partake in this lack of foresight is not to play "devil's advocate," but to endorse stupidity and servitude rather than learning from this poor guy's error.

Ugh. Again, this is not my argument! A dude on talk radio brought up the point and I thought it was worth considering. I might have furthered some of his points toward that end, but I never said I endorse the "socket wrench" approach.

RogueScribner wrote:I think the key difference is job stability. Very few writers have a regular paying gig. They bounce from project to project to earn a living and there could loads of downtime inbetween. The guy working at Sears knows (for the most part) that he'll be okay financially for the duration of the time (years, potentially decades) that he works for Sears. Would it be nice if Sears gave him an appreciation award for his invention? Yeah, but unless he took the steps to patent it himself, he has no recourse for further compensation. If writers didn't receive residuals who'd have time to write? People would be too busy at "real jobs" to get anything done.

Ultimately, this is where I come down. It's a different type of pay for a different, much less stable type of work. Because your specific "flavor" could be out of fashion a month from now, back-end residuals are a decent enough system to make sure you're continually compensated for your contribution to the culture. (Alliteration much?)
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Postby so sorry on Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 pm

I support my local Union 451 of Writers, Pastry Chefs, and Mettalic Tool Makers. Anyone who doesn't is a Communist.

The prededing viewpoint of So Sorry is not actually his opinion, but an amalgamation of viewpoints taken from various talk radio, print, and tv news outlets, as well as what he hears on the streets.

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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:20 pm

so sorry wrote:I support my local Union 451 of Writers, Pastry Chefs, and Mettalic Tool Makers. Anyone who doesn't is a Communist.

The prededing viewpoint of So Sorry is not actually his opinion, but an amalgamation of viewpoints taken from various talk radio, print, and tv news outlets, as well as what he hears on the streets.

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YOU FUCK!

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Postby so sorry on Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:33 pm

Don't get your socket wrench bent outta shape...
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Postby Zarles on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:25 pm

DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:Okay...I support the WGA completely on this one but...for some reason seeing people picketing just embarasses me. The kind of flush of embarassment one might have gotten, say, watching Jason Biggs make love to a pie. I don't know what it is! It was even worse at college! Every damn day I had to walk by some group of righteous neo-hippies holding up handmade signs and chanting about the latest cause celebre. And then obviously the alpha-female of the group would stand on a statue with a mega-phone and rant against Society, The Man, The System, The University, etc...
Ughh I feel like such a horrible O'Reailly spawn making fun of my political roots but there you have it. I want to throw things at picketers. I just can't help myself.


Does it get uncomfortable constantly keeping the heel of your jackboot pressed against the throat of the working man? ;)


Only when it means I have to strain my back to whip their children working 18 hour days in my industrial factory.


Your industrial factory that makes jackboots, I presume. Sleep well tonight. :-P
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:31 pm

Thing is, this whole strike is moot until someone comes and straightens out Hollywood's book cooking.

The common practice of shifting profit from one project to deficit on annother is what's really killing any kind of amicable agreement.

I think they should have to agree to a specific salary when taking a job and of course salary reflect position, not just senority. Then they have a clause, also based on position, experience, and seniority on at what point of profit they start collecting residuals.

If it's an effects laden sci fi epic, then of course the show would have to make a certain ammount of revenue to be profitable. If it's a top tier (or second tier even) with a large name attached, actor salary's are also going to require more revenue.

Then use the same when it comes to SAG. All streams of revenue should be counted against this total, including DVD, internet, ect.

Right now, it's so ass backward and both sides they can't properly adjust by profitable vs non-profitable shows because of the ever shifting equities.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:50 pm

In case someone does not understand what they are asking...Here it is really dumbed down...
Last edited by Bob Samonkey on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby so sorry on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:08 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:In case someone does not understand what they are asking...Here is is really dumbed down...


That writer needs to hire a producer and director to shoot that boring ass shit over...
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Postby Zarles on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:21 pm

An interesting aside having to do with the strike and 'Lost' -

The first of the Verizon 'mobisodes' for Lost was released on Tuesday. As for now, it's only available on Verizon cellphones, (transcript and info here) but the most interesting part about it is this little blurb from the Trivia section of that link -

'The mobisode was released on November 6, 2007, the second day that the WGA had been on strike fighting for residuals from "new media" such as online and mobile distribution. However, the WGA had already worked out these details for the mobisodes on behalf of Lost, negotiating a contract with ABC Studios that essentially accomplished what the WGA is striking for across the board.'

So does this mean that what the WGA is striking for is possible? This shows it can be done, right? Does it honestly come down to the studios dragging their feet?
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Postby Zarles on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:25 pm

What's more, here's a link to the 'landmark agreement' that SAG has with Touchstone regarding these mobisodes - click.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:31 pm

papalazeru wrote:
Ronald D. Moore looks like he protested in the most legal way possible. If only we knew the details of his contract. Was it in his contract that he doesn't get paid for any promotional material he writes?


It sounds pretty clearly that this is the case. That's the deal he agreed to, and from a basic perspective it doesn't sound unreasonable. You get paid for the show, and if we ask you/your staff to write some ad copy then that's covered by your paycheck. I get that.

The problem here isn't the concept, it's the definition of "promotional material". Is a webisode "promotional material?" Arguably. But it's also much more involved (I would assume) than writing some ad copy. It's a story, and the story-tellers typically would like to have some sort of credit for the stories they write.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of the webisodes is to generate excitement for the show. They are, at their core, promotional.

I would tend to agree with Moore on this, they should be credited/paid for the webisodes, but I can see the Studio's argument. I guarantee that writers with clout are going to be insisting on contracts going forward with greater specificity in the definition of "promotional material".
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Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Ronald D. Moore looks like he protested in the most legal way possible. If only we knew the details of his contract. Was it in his contract that he doesn't get paid for any promotional material he writes?


It sounds pretty clearly that this is the case. That's the deal he agreed to, and from a basic perspective it doesn't sound unreasonable. You get paid for the show, and if we ask you/your staff to write some ad copy then that's covered by your paycheck. I get that.

The problem here isn't the concept, it's the definition of "promotional material". Is a webisode "promotional material?" Arguably. But it's also much more involved (I would assume) than writing some ad copy. It's a story, and the story-tellers typically would like to have some sort of credit for the stories they write.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of the webisodes is to generate excitement for the show. They are, at their core, promotional.

I would tend to agree with Moore on this, they should be credited/paid for the webisodes, but I can see the Studio's argument. I guarantee that writers with clout are going to be insisting on contracts going forward with greater specificity in the definition of "promotional material".


And furthermore, I was reading an interview with one of the cast members from Grey's Anatomy talking about how Writer's and Actor's do not get any residuals when the networks put full episodes up from streaming on their website. They DO get residuals when the network AIRS the re-runs on TV, but NOT when they are up for streaming. Anyone who has watched this way knows that the networks do include some ads so there is revenue coming in. That, to me, is another cut and dry case. If you have to pay them when you air it on TV you should be required to pay them when you make it available for streaming online.
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Postby The Vicar on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:59 pm

Fuck - I want my Daily Show.

Today.
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Postby DennisMM on Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:14 pm

I still say people like Letterman and Colbert should be winging it.
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Postby junesquad on Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:50 pm

Yeah... Letterman should be going on without a writer. Geez... I don't see why we call him funny if he can't be funny without a writer for all the funny lines.
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Postby Zarles on Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:14 pm

junesquad wrote:Yeah... Letterman should be going on without a writer. Geez... I don't see why we call him funny if he can't be funny without a writer for all the funny lines.


I doubt he could even if he wanted to. Besides, would you really want Letterman and Colbert to cross the picket lines just to 'prove' that they're actually funny on their own? I wouldn't.
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Hollywood on Strike! (Now w/ 100% More Strike!!!!)

Postby bastard_robo on Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:11 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Ronald D. Moore looks like he protested in the most legal way possible. If only we knew the details of his contract. Was it in his contract that he doesn't get paid for any promotional material he writes?


It sounds pretty clearly that this is the case. That's the deal he agreed to, and from a basic perspective it doesn't sound unreasonable. You get paid for the show, and if we ask you/your staff to write some ad copy then that's covered by your paycheck. I get that.

The problem here isn't the concept, it's the definition of "promotional material". Is a webisode "promotional material?" Arguably. But it's also much more involved (I would assume) than writing some ad copy. It's a story, and the story-tellers typically would like to have some sort of credit for the stories they write.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of the webisodes is to generate excitement for the show. They are, at their core, promotional.

I would tend to agree with Moore on this, they should be credited/paid for the webisodes, but I can see the Studio's argument. I guarantee that writers with clout are going to be insisting on contracts going forward with greater specificity in the definition of "promotional material".


And furthermore, I was reading an interview with one of the cast members from Grey's Anatomy talking about how Writer's and Actor's do not get any residuals when the networks put full episodes up from streaming on their website. They DO get residuals when the network AIRS the re-runs on TV, but NOT when they are up for streaming. Anyone who has watched this way knows that the networks do include some ads so there is revenue coming in. That, to me, is another cut and dry case. If you have to pay them when you air it on TV you should be required to pay them when you make it available for streaming online.



But when you watch said shows online, your not getting the 30 + commercials that you get by watching it on brodcast TV... You get maybe 1 or two before the episode starts, a nice clean, uncut run, and maybe an ad when its complete.

Not the same amount of money online than broadcast.
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Postby King Of Nowhere on Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:50 pm

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34737

I am – Hercules!! wants us to sign a petition in support of the writers.

It'll mean nothing in the eyes of the studios, because we buy/watch the shit they put out anyway.
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Postby junesquad on Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:52 pm

Zarles wrote:
junesquad wrote:Yeah... Letterman should be going on without a writer. Geez... I don't see why we call him funny if he can't be funny without a writer for all the funny lines.


I doubt he could even if he wanted to. Besides, would you really want Letterman and Colbert to cross the picket lines just to 'prove' that they're actually funny on their own? I wouldn't.


Just silly ramblings... Not really a serious suggestion.
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Postby DDMAN26 on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:13 am

It's amazing how an extra 4 cents makes a bunch of billioniares look like tightwads.
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Postby junesquad on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:17 am

DDMAN26 wrote:It's amazing how an extra 4 cents makes a bunch of billioniares look like tightwads.


Hahahaha... human nature... I still think it is funny when you read about celebrities that spend $500+ on a meal and then stiff their waiters/waitresses.
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Postby DDMAN26 on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:25 am

I really like this video explaining the whole situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:46 am

DDMAN26 wrote:I really like this video explaining the whole situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk


Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:In case someone does not understand what they are asking...Here it is really dumbed down...


Woot!!
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Postby junesquad on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:48 am

DDMAN26 wrote:I really like this video explaining the whole situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk


Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed that... mostly because it was made on a Mac using Keynote!!!! The information was good,too.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:56 am

junesquad wrote:
DDMAN26 wrote:I really like this video explaining the whole situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk


Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed that... mostly because it was made on a Mac using Keynote!!!! The information was good,too.


:P
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:28 am

Bob, I watched your link and found it informative. I just went to sleep shortly afterwards and didn't bother posting.


I thought the most interesting point was the writers agreeing to a cut in residuals, while this "Home Video" thing starts to see how it pans out!
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:18 am

Don't know if this has been here yet. I'll delete if it has.

Variety.com wrote:It could soon be lights out for "Family Guy."

Walking the picket line at Wednesday's showrunner rally, creator Seth Macfarlane maintained that this Sunday's episode of "Family Guy" is actually the last fully-produced episode in the can.

There are other episodes close to being finished, but Macfarlane has made it clear that he has no plans to help put those segs together. Macfarlane also has another unique bit of leverage: He provides voices for many main characters on the show, and he's made it clear he's not stepping into the studio to record.

Couldn't Fox just go ahead and use other non-WGA producers to wrap things up?

"They could, but it would be unwise," Macfarlane says.

And why would that be?

"Because I would be angry," the scribe said.

20th isn't saying what it will do.

"Our hope is that he returns to work and completes his non-writing obligations on those episodes," a spokesperson said.

Losing "Family Guy" in the middle of the November sweeps would be tough for Fox, which counts the show as its Sunday night anchor.

It wouldn't be immediately devastating, however. In a testament to just how strong "Family Guy" is, the show does very well in repeats.


This is a very interesting fight.

The king that is Psyz wrote:The common practice of shifting profit from one project to deficit on annother is what's really killing any kind of amicable agreement.

I think they should have to agree to a specific salary when taking a job and of course salary reflect position, not just senority. Then they have a clause, also based on position, experience, and seniority on at what point of profit they start collecting residuals.

Then use the same when it comes to SAG. All streams of revenue should be counted against this total, including DVD, internet, ect.

Right now, it's so ass backward and both sides they can't properly adjust by profitable vs non-profitable shows because of the ever shifting equities.


That is very interesting news that I didn't realise. thanks for that.

There are a few shows that I'm glad that the writers are on strike:
'Just Shoot me' and all those other cheap ass comedy sit coms deserve to go off air.

I wish this happened when Friends was running.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Re: Hollywood on Strike! (Now w/ 100% More Strike!!!!)

Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:51 am

bastard_robo wrote:
Leckomaniac wrote:[qu ote="Lord Voldemoo"]
papalazeru wrote:
Ronald D. Moore looks like he protested in the most legal way possible. If only we knew the details of his contract. Was it in his contract that he doesn't get paid for any promotional material he writes?


It sounds pretty clearly that this is the case. That's the deal he agreed to, and from a basic perspective it doesn't sound unreasonable. You get paid for the show, and if we ask you/your staff to write some ad copy then that's covered by your paycheck. I get that.

The problem here isn't the concept, it's the definition of "promotional material". Is a webisode "promotional material?" Arguably. But it's also much more involved (I would assume) than writing some ad copy. It's a story, and the story-tellers typically would like to have some sort of credit for the stories they write.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of the webisodes is to generate excitement for the show. They are, at their core, promotional.

I would tend to agree with Moore on this, they should be credited/paid for the webisodes, but I can see the Studio's argument. I guarantee that writers with clout are going to be insisting on contracts going forward with greater specificity in the definition of "promotional material".


And furthermore, I was reading an interview with one of the cast members from Grey's Anatomy talking about how Writer's and Actor's do not get any residuals when the networks put full episodes up from streaming on their website. They DO get residuals when the network AIRS the re-runs on TV, but NOT when they are up for streaming. Anyone who has watched this way knows that the networks do include some ads so there is revenue coming in. That, to me, is another cut and dry case. If you have to pay them when you air it on TV you should be required to pay them when you make it available for streaming online.



But when you watch said shows online, your not getting the 30 + commercials that you get by watching it on brodcast TV... You get maybe 1 or two before the episode starts, a nice clean, uncut run, and maybe an ad when its complete.

Not the same amount of money online than broadcast.[/quote]

So what? Revenue is revenue. It makes no sense to say "We'll pay them when we make money from airing the show they created on TV, but we won't pay them when we make money from putting their show up for streaming on the Internet". Regardless of how much revenue is coming in. Thats just silly.
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:25 am

That's free streaming, what about the sale on iTunes? There's definitely income there.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:31 am

CeeBeeUK wrote:That's free streaming, what about the sale on iTunes? There's definitely income there.


There is income with free streaming too, that is my point. You can stream it for free and they put ads in there to generate revenue. They are still making money without having to pay a single person involved in making the production.

iTunes is the classic example. As Greg Daniels said...The Office sold 7 million downloads on iTunes and NBC never had to pay any talent a cent.
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Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:32 am

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Postby Nordling on Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:11 am

Arnie ain't ending shit. Especially with phrases like "...the writers that are striking, they are not going to suffer. Those are all people that have money."
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Postby Zarles on Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:16 am

I just hope that at some point, he tells all the writahs to get into the choppah.
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