W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Betamax and beyond

How will you be watching movies in the future?

DVD?
8
11%
HD-DVD?
10
13%
Blu-Ray?
38
51%
EVD?
1
1%
Holographic Optical Recording Technology?
3
4%
OLDSCHOOL BABY! Betamax/VHS?
2
3%
Projected onto your eyelids by your new 3D magic-movie eye?
2
3%
In the gorram CINEMA, all this tech costs tooo much........
11
15%
 
Total votes : 75

Upconverting and blu-ray

Postby verdouxbrothels on Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:53 pm

So here's the deal. I'd like to join the blu-ray frenzy in time for the release of Bottle Rocket in November, but I also need a suitable upconverting machine for my SD collection. I've read all the CNET reviews, all that stuff, and the two most viable options seem to me:

- buy a PS3, since it both upconverts and plays blu ray. I think it also plays some sort of video game? Anyway, the drawback here is that I've heard the upconverting is only "good enough" on the PS3.

- buy an oppo upconverter now and wait until bluray player prices drop enough to the point where the cost of the oppo and the br player together would not exceed that of the PS3.

Has ANYBODY -- and this is a long shot I know -- but has ANYBODY recently A/B'd PS3 upconversion against an oppo? That's what's killing me, that I can't actually see the difference in front of me before buying.

Thanks!
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Re: Upconverting and blu-ray

Postby stereosforgeeks on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:09 pm

verdouxbrothels wrote:So here's the deal. I'd like to join the blu-ray frenzy in time for the release of Bottle Rocket in November, but I also need a suitable upconverting machine for my SD collection. I've read all the CNET reviews, all that stuff, and the two most viable options seem to me:

- buy a PS3, since it both upconverts and plays blu ray. I think it also plays some sort of video game? Anyway, the drawback here is that I've heard the upconverting is only "good enough" on the PS3.

- buy an oppo upconverter now and wait until bluray player prices drop enough to the point where the cost of the oppo and the br player together would not exceed that of the PS3.

Has ANYBODY -- and this is a long shot I know -- but has ANYBODY recently A/B'd PS3 upconversion against an oppo? That's what's killing me, that I can't actually see the difference in front of me before buying.

Thanks!


All Bluray players will upconvert.
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Re: Upconverting and blu-ray

Postby verdouxbrothels on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:28 pm

stereosforgeeks wrote:
verdouxbrothels wrote:So here's the deal. I'd like to join the blu-ray frenzy in time for the release of Bottle Rocket in November, but I also need a suitable upconverting machine for my SD collection. I've read all the CNET reviews, all that stuff, and the two most viable options seem to me:

- buy a PS3, since it both upconverts and plays blu ray. I think it also plays some sort of video game? Anyway, the drawback here is that I've heard the upconverting is only "good enough" on the PS3.

- buy an oppo upconverter now and wait until bluray player prices drop enough to the point where the cost of the oppo and the br player together would not exceed that of the PS3.

Has ANYBODY -- and this is a long shot I know -- but has ANYBODY recently A/B'd PS3 upconversion against an oppo? That's what's killing me, that I can't actually see the difference in front of me before buying.

Thanks!


All Bluray players will upconvert.



Yes, but not well. I own a panasonic right now that upconverts me into jag city. I think most would agree that there's a range of quality with upconverters.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Hermanator X on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:34 pm

This is supposed to be a good site for discussing that sort of thing in depth. http://www.avforums.com/. Myself I would go for the PS3 but im a gamer too, so probably biased. Either way, I really dont think either of the options would make that much of a difference to me personally, im sure picture quality is damn good in either case.
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Re: Upconverting and blu-ray

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:39 pm

verdouxbrothels wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
verdouxbrothels wrote:So here's the deal. I'd like to join the blu-ray frenzy in time for the release of Bottle Rocket in November, but I also need a suitable upconverting machine for my SD collection. I've read all the CNET reviews, all that stuff, and the two most viable options seem to me:

- buy a PS3, since it both upconverts and plays blu ray. I think it also plays some sort of video game? Anyway, the drawback here is that I've heard the upconverting is only "good enough" on the PS3.

- buy an oppo upconverter now and wait until bluray player prices drop enough to the point where the cost of the oppo and the br player together would not exceed that of the PS3.

Has ANYBODY -- and this is a long shot I know -- but has ANYBODY recently A/B'd PS3 upconversion against an oppo? That's what's killing me, that I can't actually see the difference in front of me before buying.

Thanks!


All Bluray players will upconvert.



Yes, but not well. I own a panasonic right now that upconverts me into jag city. I think most would agree that there's a range of quality with upconverters.


So you have a Panasonic Blu-Ray player? or Do you mean you have a Panasonic upconverting player.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:48 pm

i'm perfectly happy with the upconverting on my PS3. i've never had an upconverting DVD player, but it does a better job than the built-in upconversion on my Sony HDTV.
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Re: Upconverting and blu-ray

Postby verdouxbrothels on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:01 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
verdouxbrothels wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
verdouxbrothels wrote:So here's the deal. I'd like to join the blu-ray frenzy in time for the release of Bottle Rocket in November, but I also need a suitable upconverting machine for my SD collection. I've read all the CNET reviews, all that stuff, and the two most viable options seem to me:

- buy a PS3, since it both upconverts and plays blu ray. I think it also plays some sort of video game? Anyway, the drawback here is that I've heard the upconverting is only "good enough" on the PS3.

- buy an oppo upconverter now and wait until bluray player prices drop enough to the point where the cost of the oppo and the br player together would not exceed that of the PS3.

Has ANYBODY -- and this is a long shot I know -- but has ANYBODY recently A/B'd PS3 upconversion against an oppo? That's what's killing me, that I can't actually see the difference in front of me before buying.

Thanks!


All Bluray players will upconvert.



Yes, but not well. I own a panasonic right now that upconverts me into jag city. I think most would agree that there's a range of quality with upconverters.


So you have a Panasonic Blu-Ray player? or Do you mean you have a Panasonic upconverting player.


I have a Panasonic blu ray player. I'm returning it, though, due to the poor upconversion. Thanks for the others who wrote in re: the PS3
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:18 pm

I have a Sony something Blu-Ray play and it upconverts beautifully, and that's without HDMI (sadly my TV doesn't have an HDMI port because I bought it like 3 months before HDMI became standard).
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:26 pm

If you look around people are clearancing Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player for less than $300. Amazon will sell you one from Target for $194.98. Amazon will sell you the S350 - the model replacing the 300 - for $262.22, and that one has ethernet and USB.

I think I need someone to talk me down.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby stereosforgeeks on Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:32 pm

Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote:If you look around people are clearancing Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player for less than $300. Amazon will sell you one from Target for $194.98. Amazon will sell you the S350 - the model replacing the 300 - for $262.22, and that one has ethernet and USB.

I think I need someone to talk me down.


Go for it!!!!
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby sonnyboo on Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:54 pm

Is it just me or was the whole High Def disc format selling better when there was both HD-DVD and BLU RAY?

It seems like even though most of the HD-DVD titles have now been released on BLU RAY, that the section at the store is a bit smaller and the sales aren't as high...

THoughts? Opinions?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Fievel on Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:34 pm

Well... how many people that put their chips all in on HD-DVD are pissed at the failure and aren't going to go Blu-Ray until they absolutely have to?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Hermanator X on Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:50 pm

I have hd xbox add on drive, but only own about 12 movies. due to the price, I was extremely choosy about which movies i picked up, so I didnt get burned too badly, but its a pain in the ass anyhoo. I wanna pick up a ps3 for bluray, but simply cant afford. Still priced at 3900 kroner here in norway, which is approx 800 dollars, which makes me go into a cold sweat. Tis a real shame, as its holding me back from buying dvds also, as I have the upgrade in the back of my mind. Rock and a hard place. Renting is the future. haha.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby stereosforgeeks on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:13 am

One must not forget the economic issues that have been occurring.

Im upto about 20 BRs at this point and am anxiously awaiting the Criterions next month.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby sonnyboo on Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:19 pm

stereosforgeeks wrote:One must not forget the economic issues that have been occurring.

Im upto about 20 BRs at this point and am anxiously awaiting the Criterions next month.


BOTTLE ROCKET and THIRD MAN both appeal to me and I can't wait for some HD Kurasawa!


I got a SAMSUNG HD-DVD/BLU RAY combo for $260 including shipping (new). So I'm not buying any of the BLU RAY titles of what I have on HD-DVD (except BLADE RUNNER 5 dfisc set which cost $15 at Best Buy, so I have both).

Still, it's the strange lack of commitment from the stores AND the buyers that has me a little concerned. There aren't the flurry of older titles available even though most new DVD releases are based on HD remasters, so they have the film in HD.

I love the new GODFATHER Blu Ray set. It kicks ass. The new HD content for the bonus disc kinda rocks. You can't really tell the film stuff from HD shot.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:14 am

I just read somewhere that analysts are predicting that HDTVs in the 30" range that are now $700 will be about $300 starting on Black Friday. Curious to see if it comes to pass and if sets in the 40" range will experience comparable drops.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:25 pm

Shhh, word on the street is that the Sony S350 Blu-ray player will be $179.99 on Thanksgiving Day at KMart.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:03 am

Got $20,000 lying around and you don't know what to do with it? Why not buy a TV? Free shipping on orders over $100!
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Seppuku on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:10 am

Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote:Got $20,000 lying around and you don't know what to do with it? Why not buy a TV? Free shipping on orders over $100!


:roll: This is why the Middle East hates us...
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:13 am

Seppuku wrote:
Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote:Got $20,000 lying around and you don't know what to do with it? Why not buy a TV? Free shipping on orders over $100!


:roll: This is why the Middle East hates us...


I just put it on my xmas list.

Grandma is pretty well off and (for realz) 98 years old...you never know, she might just think "hey what the hell, he's a nice boy..."
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Which one to buy...?

Postby Droncz92 on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:57 pm

Now Im pretty sure Im going to have to buy a blue ray this xmas for my pops, are there any decent, cheap, players out there?

And also, would our normal dvds work on it or not?
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Re: Which one to buy...?

Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:19 pm

Droncz92 wrote:Now Im pretty sure Im going to have to buy a blue ray this xmas for my pops, are there any decent, cheap, players out there?

And also, would our normal dvds work on it or not?

I have yet to see a Blu-Ray player that isn't backwards compatible to standard DVD. No worries there, plus I think most of them upconvert.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:07 am

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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby sonnyboo on Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:23 pm

Whilst I don't agree with the assessment that BLU RAY is THE NEXT LASERDISC mentality, this article is still an interesting read.

Blu-ray is dead - heckuva job, Sony!
http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=365



Blu-ray is in a death spiral. 12 months from now Blu-ray will be a videophile niche, not a mass market product.

With only a 4% share of US movie disc sales and HD download capability arriving, the Blu-ray disc Association (BDA) is still smoking dope. Even $150 Blu-ray players won't save it.

16 months ago I called <http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=149> the HD war for Blu-ray. My bad. Who dreamed they could both lose?

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory Delusional Sony exec Rick <http://news.sel.sony.com/electronicsblog/?p=172> Clancy needs to put the crack pipe down and really look at the market dynamics.

In a nutshell: consumers drive the market and they don't care about Blu-ray's theoretical advantages. Especially during a world-wide recession.

Remember Betamax? SACD? Minidisk? Laser Disk? DVD-Audio? There are more losers than winners in consumer storage formats.

It's all about volume. 8 months after Toshiba threw in the towel, Blu-ray still doesn't have it.

The Blu-ray Disc Association doesn't get it $150 Blu-ray disc players are a good start, but it won't take Blu-ray over the finish line. The BDA is stuck in the past with a flawed five-year-old strategy.

The original game plan Two things killed the original strategy. First the fight with HD DVD stalled the industry for two years. Initial enthusiasm for high definition video on disk was squandered.

Second, the advent of low cost up-sampling DVD players dramatically cut the video quality advantage of Blu-ray DVDs. Suddenly, for $100, your average consumer can put good video on their HDTV using standard DVDs. When Blu-ray got started no one dreamed this would happen.

Piggies at the trough The Blu-ray Disc Association hoped for a massive cash bonanza as millions of
consumers discovered that standard DVDs looked awful on HDTV. To cash in they loaded Blu-ray licenses with costly fees. Blu-ray doesn't just suck for consumers: small producers can't afford it either.

According to Digital <http://digitalcontentproducer.com/videoencodvd/revfeat/bluray_blues/> Content Producer Blu-ray doesn't cut it for business:

* Recordable discs don't play reliably across the range of Blu-ray players - so you can't do low-volume runs yourself.

* Service bureau reproduction runs $20 per single layer disc in quantities of 300 or less.

* Hollywood style printed/replicated Blu-ray discs are considerably cheaper once you reach the thousand unit quantity: just $3.50 per disc.

* High-quality authoring programs like Sony Blu-print or Sonic Solutions Scenarist cost $40,000.

* The Advanced Access Content System - the already hacked DRM - has a one-time fee of $3000 plus a per project cost of almost $1600 plus $.04 per disk. And who defines "project?"

* Then the Blu-ray disc Association charges another $3000 annually to use their very exclusive - on 4% of all video disks! - logo.

That's why you don't see quirky indie flicks on Blu-ray. Small producers can't afford it - even though they shoot in HDV and HD.

The Storage Bits take Don't expect Steve Jobs to budge from his "bag of hurt" understatement. Or
Final Cut Studio support for Blu-ray. I suspect that Jobs is using his Hollywood clout from his board seat on Disney and his control of iTunes to try to talk sense to the BDA.

But the BDA won't budge. They, like so much of Hollywood, are stuck in the past.

A forward looking strategy would include:

* Recognition that consumers don't need Blu-ray. It is a nice-to-have and must be priced accordingly.
* Accept the money spent on Blu-ray is gone and will never earn back the investment. Then you can begin thinking clearly about how to maximize Blu-ray penetration.
* The average consumer will probably pay $50 more for a Blu-ray player that is competitive with the average up-sampling DVD player. Most of the current Blu-ray players are junk: slow, feature-poor and way over-priced.
* Disk price margins can't be higher than DVDs and probably should be less. The question the studios need to ask is: "do we want to be selling disks in 5 years?" No? Then keep it up. Turn distribution over to your very
good friends at Comcast, Apple and Time Warner. You'll be like Procter & Gamble paying Safeway to stock your products.
* Fire all the market research firms telling you how great it is going to be. They are playing you. Your #1 goal: market share. High volume is your only chance to earn your way out of this mess and keep some control of your
distribution.

Time is short. Timid incrementalism will kill you.

Like Agent Smith delivering the bad news to a complacent cop: "No, Lieutenant, your men are already dead."
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Fawst on Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:42 pm

Here is a pretty great rebuttal to that piece posted above at ZDNet:

The Digital Bits wrote:As you may know, there have been a couple of recent reports online that the Blu-ray format is D.O.A. or otherwise doomed to failure. The most recent such proclamation is an alarmist piece by ZDNet's Robin Harris, that has resulted in a small flood of e-mails from readers today, some concerned, many skeptical and all curious as to our reaction.

Look, folks... let's have a little perspective here. People have been predicting the death of Blu-ray Disc for more than two years now. And many of those doing so were either staunch HD-DVD supporters previously or simply NEVER saw much of a future for Blu-ray or high-definition discs. Harris, it seems to me, falls into the latter category. He's a fine guy, I'm sure, but from what I've read of his work, he's never really been much of a videophile. He's a storage guy. Hard drives. It says so right there in his bio: "Robin Harris has been selling and marketing data storage for over 20 years in companies large and small." There's nothing wrong with that, and more power to him. But I don't expect him to be any kind of advocate for a home video format, other than one based around a downloading model. And he's hardly the person to best judge the future of what is, at its very essence, a HOME VIDEO FORMAT.

That's not to say that Harris doesn't make some valid points. The BDA's licensing fees are too high, and there are still too many barriers (not the least of which is cost) to smaller content producers adopting the format. I'll give you a few more obstacles the format faces: Blu-ray Disc player and movie prices are still too high. Studios should cut software prices across the board by $5 to $10. Profile 2.0 players should become standard and cheap, and fast. The need to continually update player firmware for title after title has been very frustrating, most recently with the James Bond Blu-rays. That's not a big deal if you have a PS3, but if you have a profile 1.0 or 1.1 player, it means either downloading and burning a firmware update disc, or calling the manufacturer's tech support line and requesting one be sent to you by mail. That's a pain in the ass, and the industry needs to figure out a way to make it easier. The economic slowdown and the lengthy format war haven't helped either. I do think the industry should take a look at Harris' recommendations for what a more "forward looking strategy" for the Blu-ray format ought to look like. I actually agree with a couple of them.

But let's get real here. Blu-ray is NOT dead. It's not close to death. It's not even remotely sick or ailing. Saying otherwise is simply a clever ploy to get a LOT of people to read your columns. Look folks, Blu-ray is still essentially a NEW format to most people. This is the format's FIRST YEAR of unopposed exposure to consumers - the first year it hasn't been embroiled in a bitter format dispute with HD-DVD. The standard DVD format didn't begin to really take off until well over a year after its Divx pay-per-view nemesis finally died. It's worth noting that my prediction has ALWAYS been that Blu-ray and DVD would co-exist for many years, and that Blu-ray would gradually increase its market share over time. If I had to guess, I think the mix a few years from now is going to be 50% DVD, 30-40% Blu-ray and some smaller percentage of downloading. Blu-ray isn't going to replace DVD, the single most successful format in the history of consumer electronics, and anyone who thinks otherwise is out to lunch. But Blu-ray's future is plenty bright, folks.

Let's look at this from another perspective. One month ago, Paramount's Iron Man became the first Blu-ray Disc release to sell 500,000 units in its first week of release. Industry sources tell me that the title has CONTINUED to sell well and is closing in on 1 million units sold. If Iron Man doesn't get there first, Warner's mega-smash hit The Dark Knight is on deck for release on Blu-ray Disc on 12/9. Does anyone think it isn't going to fly off the shelves too? Either way, by the end of the year (almost certainly by the end of January), one of these two titles - and quite possibly BOTH - could hit 1 million units sold. That milestone will have been reached just a little more than two years after the Blu-ray format was launched. Do you know how long it took DVD to have its first million selling title? Just under THREE years - The Matrix, which debuted on the format in late 1999. Seems like Blu-ray's right on track to me.

The format's got LOTS more going for it too. First, player prices are finally dipping below $250, right on track with the pace in the early days of DVD. Best Buy has its Insignia brand BD player priced at $249, and a Samsung player on sale for $229. Multiple retailers are expected to be selling Blu-ray players for LESS than $200 on Black Friday and for the holiday season. According to Video Business, Sears will be selling Sony's BDP-S350 for just $179.99 and Samsung's BD-P1500 for $199.99, both profile 2.0/BD-Live ready players. Look for other BD player deals at select retailers to follow, some as low as $149.

Second, look at all the great titles available! You know, earlier this year many of the studios were telling me that big titles were coming for the holidays, and that the floodgates were really going to open in 2009, but I STILL didn't expect the torrent of great titles we're seeing now. Consider the new releases alone... Transformers, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, The Dark Knight, Cloverfield, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Hancock, Wall-E, Sex and the City, Tropic Thunder, The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, Rambo, There Will Be Blood, Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Kung Fu Panda, Casino Royale and many, many others.

Now consider the AMAZING catalog titles that have been (or will soon be) released on Blu-ray... SIX vintage James Bond films, ALL of the Austin Powers films, Sleeping Beauty, Blade Runner, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Godfather Collection, ALL of the Terminator films, Starship Troopers, all of the Planet of the Apes films, all of the Pirates of the Caribbean films, Casablanca, How the West Was Won, L.A. Confidential, JFK, all of The Matrix films, FIVE Stanley Kubrick films including 2001, The Nightmare Before Christmas, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, the Omen films, Bonnie and Clyde, the Die Hard films, ID4, the Mission: Impossible films, Dawn of the Dead, the Dirty Harry films, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Superman and the Superman II: Director's Cut, the Spider-Man films and on, and on, and on.

In his piece, Harris claims there are few quirky indie films on the format. Has he not seen Transsiberian, Sukiyaki Western Django, Mongol, Kiss of the Spider Woman, Persepolis, Shinobi or any of the MANY such titles now available or coming soon? What about the documentary titles? Baraka, Planet Earth? The TV titles? Heroes, Lost, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Torchwood, Pushing Daisies, Band of Brothers?

You think all of those titles are impressive? Look at the tip of the iceberg of what's coming next year: The Star Trek films, Braveheart, Pinocchio, The Lord of the Rings films, King Kong (1933), The Wizard of Oz, Ben Hur, North by Northwest, the Ghostbusters films, Lawrence of Arabia, Gone with the Wind, the Rush Hour films, The French Connection, Napoleon Dynamite, Office Space, Raging Bull, Ronin, the new Battlestar Galactica TV series and HUNDREDS of others. That's just scratching the surface. There are titles that I KNOW FOR A FACT are in the works for release on Blu-ray in 2009 that will blow your minds, but I can't mention them by name yet. MAJOR catalog releases. For god's sake, folks... The Final Countdown is on Blu-ray! Are you kidding me?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

The question isn't, "Is Harris right?" The question is, "Is Harris even PAYING ATTENTION?" Of course not. He's fine guy... but he's A DATA STORAGE GUY. He's not a film guy. He's not a home video industry expert. Make no mistake, the Hollywood studios are 110% behind the Blu-ray Disc format, folks. So are the hardware manufacturers, and so are all the major retailers. They're going to blow the doors off this format in 2009 in terms of amazing releases. And watch for prices on hardware and software to get even more affordable in the coming year. Blu-ray is going to be around for quite a long while, I don't care what Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Robin Harris tell you. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BE A MOVIE FAN. PERIOD.

Blu-ray is dead?! Yeah, right! And I've got a bridge in Alaska to sell you.

As Charlie Brown might say, "Good grief..."


I haven't read the ZDNet piece yet, but I have read the above. I don't think I even need to bother reading the argument now. He makes good points. There's also a brief followup to the above:

The Digital Bits wrote:Also today, do you recall that rant I posted a couple weeks back about how the talk of Blu-ray's demise was absurd? Our friend Ben Drawbaugh weighed in on the subject over at Engadget as well, and he's clearly of the same mind. Ben and I were e-mailing back and forth recently, and he made a few additional points about Blu-ray and the notion of downloading that I thought were interesting. First, he noted that while Apple was recently thrilled to announce program-to-date high-def TV series sales of $5 million via iTunes download, Blu-ray sold $17 million worth of titles that same week alone. Ben also sent the following, which made me smile...

"Top ten reasons that prove Hollywood is only playing in the downloads world while focusing its real efforts on Blu-ray.

10 - Movie commercials say "now available on Blu-ray and DVD" never mentions downloads.
9 - You can't rent TV shows from any download service, but you can buy them on disc.
8 - 24 hour rental window.
7 - 30 day rental limit.
6 - Extras only available on discs
5 - Can't rent HD movies on the PC (only on boxes like the 360, Vudu etc).
4 - Pulls previously available movies from the selection.
3 - About a 30 day window between when a title is released on disc and on download services.
2 - Digital copies are now included with many discs.
1 - Can't buy HD movies from any service."

Those are good points all. To them, I'll add the fact that according to VideoScan, Blu-ray now regularly hits as much as 10% of total sales of new release titles. In addition, there are now over 1,000 Blu-ray Disc titles released or scheduled for release according to the DVD Release Report (1,057 to be exact). That's a significant milestone after just two full years of format availability. Let's go further... as Blu-ray player pricing drops below $200 and even $150 this holiday season and into 2009, buying a Blu-ray player will become a no-brainer. Just a couple days ago, I was at the dentist and the hygienist was talking about how her DVD player had just died and she needed to get a new one. She asked about "this Blu-ray thing," and when I told her that she could get a BD player for under $200 and that it would play all her DVDs too, she was sold on the spot. That story is going to be repeated millions of times next year. ANYONE who walks into a Best Buy or a Wal-Mart looking to replace a broken cheap DVD player is going to learn about cheap Blu-ray/DVD players and think, "Why the hell not?" Have I mentioned the fact that Hollywood is being relentless in getting the word about Blu-ray Disc out? You're not going to see that with downloading. Why, you ask? You want the real clincher? The REAL reason why Blu-ray is going to be around a long time, and downloading isn't going to take over for a very long time? It's not just bandwidth, folks, though that's a problem too and will be for a while. No, the real roadblock is profit. Hollywood studios will NEVER be able to sell you a downloaded movie for $29.99 or $39.99. It'll NEVER happen. That would be like telling hardcore gamers that they can't buy games on physical discs anymore, but they still have to pay $60 for the latest, greatest titles. What this means is that downloading - best case - is going to take over the movie rental market, not sales. Any movie fans who want extras beyond just the movie itself, and want to actually own the content rather than continually rent it again and again, are going to stick with physical media. And that means Blu-ray. Anyone who tells you otherwise A) doesn't understand the home video industry or the movie enthusiast market, B) is a downloading advocate, or C) preferred HD-DVD and still feels sour grapes. That's not to say everyone who watches DVDs will make the switch to Blu, but this whole idea that Blu-ray isn't here to stay or is going to remain a super-über-high-end niche product is a load of malarkey. I'm just saying. Ben too.


That above piece actually has some other good bits of info, like the cover art for the foreign versions of the pre-Nolan Batman Blu-Rays, in case you want to see them. Too bad the cover art is better than most of the movies...
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby so sorry on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Those are two great arguements for each side, but I couldn't argree more with the ZDnet guys. Blue ray ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:09 pm

Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:27 pm

i think the last article quoted up there is spot on, and the most important thing to realize is, blu-ray will win out because THAT'S WHAT HOLLYWOOD WANTS. they control all the content and they'll make sure it gets sold in the way they want it at the price they want it, and they've already settled on blu-ray. and i think that's what most consumers want too, which is why we're willing to shell out $20-30-40 for a physical disk but don't want to pay nearly as much for a download. downloads and PPV may eventually take over for rentals, but not for the movies people want to buy and own.

i do think blu-ray acceptance will be slowed by the economic redepression we're going through, but in the long run it will still become the dominant format.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby so sorry on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:30 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.


I said I couldn't agree more...

And Baxter, I couldn't agree to disagree with your agreement any less.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:33 pm

so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.


I said I couldn't agree more...

OK, I will break it down then. The ZDnet blog link posted is about how Blu-Ray is dead. You then you go on to say Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere thus your agreement with the ZDnet article doesn't make any sense.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby sonnyboo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:44 pm

I don't endorse either side of the argument at this stage. I'm just a consumer, not an expert. I own Blu Ray discs and a player, plus a PS3.

I do find it odd that prices didn't start dropping on players until Black Friday ads. Places like CIRCUIT CITY and BEST BUY moved the Blu Ray discs from right next to the NEW RELEASES to the very back of their DVD sections next to the fitness and special interest videos.

Does that mean BLU RAY is dead? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Does it mean it's a lot slower on the uptake than people expected, especially in light of winning the "HD disc war"? hell yes. I think Sony make things too expensive for the consumer and their fellow manufacturers, so everyone loses some.

Can anyone tell me about the BLU RAY 2.0 standard? Is it true my player will suddenly become obsolete? Will I not be able to play new BLU RAY discs with my old player? If this rumor is true, I believe it will kill BLU RAY entirely. No one will dare upgrade to HD discs for fear of losing out on their current investments.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:04 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.


I said I couldn't agree more...

OK, I will break it down then. The ZDnet blog link posted is about how Blu-Ray is dead. You then you go on to say Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere thus your agreement with the ZDnet article doesn't make any sense.


OR DOES IT?!??!??!?!??!?
no...no it doesn't.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:11 pm

sonnyboo wrote:
16 months ago I called <http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=149> the HD war for Blu-ray. My bad. Who dreamed they could both lose?


A great deal of the video/audio forums were calling it a no-score draw a long time ago, way before 16 months ago, especially after the SACD/DVD-Audio battle.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby so sorry on Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:05 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.


I said I couldn't agree more...

OK, I will break it down then. The ZDnet blog link posted is about how Blu-Ray is dead. You then you go on to say Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere thus your agreement with the ZDnet article doesn't make any sense.


OR DOES IT?!??!??!?!??!?
no...no it doesn't.


HAHA! Oops.
I'd blame it on the tryptophan in my system, but I haven't had any yet... so I'm just an idiot.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:11 am

Tyrone_Shoelaces wrote:Shhh, word on the street is that the Sony S350 Blu-ray player will be $179.99 on Thanksgiving Day at KMart.

Got it!
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:05 pm

sonnyboo wrote:I don't endorse either side of the argument at this stage. I'm just a consumer, not an expert. I own Blu Ray discs and a player, plus a PS3.

I do find it odd that prices didn't start dropping on players until Black Friday ads. Places like CIRCUIT CITY and BEST BUY moved the Blu Ray discs from right next to the NEW RELEASES to the very back of their DVD sections next to the fitness and special interest videos.

Does that mean BLU RAY is dead? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Does it mean it's a lot slower on the uptake than people expected, especially in light of winning the "HD disc war"? hell yes. I think Sony make things too expensive for the consumer and their fellow manufacturers, so everyone loses some.

Can anyone tell me about the BLU RAY 2.0 standard? Is it true my player will suddenly become obsolete? Will I not be able to play new BLU RAY discs with my old player? If this rumor is true, I believe it will kill BLU RAY entirely. No one will dare upgrade to HD discs for fear of losing out on their current investments.


if you have a PS3, it can download firmware updates to be 2.0 compliant. some players can also be upgraded to 2.0 firmware, some can't. if they can't though, they'll still be able to play 2.0 disks, they just won't be able to play all of the special features on those disks.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:06 pm

so sorry wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Do you mean disagree more? I am confused.


I said I couldn't agree more...

OK, I will break it down then. The ZDnet blog link posted is about how Blu-Ray is dead. You then you go on to say Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere thus your agreement with the ZDnet article doesn't make any sense.


OR DOES IT?!??!??!?!??!?
no...no it doesn't.


HAHA! Oops.
I'd blame it on the tryptophan in my system, but I haven't had any yet... so I'm just an idiot.


so, who do you agree with then?

WE HAVE TO KNOW!!!!!!!1
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how much money bluray

Postby SolvexSoft on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:18 am

how much money bluray format players and discs in your country?
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Re: how much money bluray

Postby papalazeru on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:19 am

Too fucking much.

£30 for a new film. About $60 for the same film you can get on DVD with special features.

It's a scandal
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:22 pm

But I don't get how it says there 's not a service that can stream movies, etc. that people prefer, especially when it comes to TV series.

But I just did that very thing with the first two seasons of 30 Rock and the entire run of The Tick to my Xbox 360. What gives?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Hermanator X on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:19 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:But I don't get how it says there 's not a service that can stream movies, etc. that people prefer, especially when it comes to TV series.

But I just did that very thing with the first two seasons of 30 Rock and the entire run of The Tick to my Xbox 360. What gives?


You are lucky NK. At the moment I dont get anything to my 360 here in norway. I would be more than happy to pay for it, but none of the movies are available in my "space" IF I could subscribe I would, but at the mo, I watch the shows through other methods, then buy the dvds when they become available. International copyright is the out dated concept in the digital age. I am ready, willing and prepared to pay, but just not able.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby RaulMonkey on Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:25 pm

I've got a question about upconverting DVDs with a Blu-ray player. My owner's manual says that, with an HDMI cable, both DVDs and Blu-ray discs can be displayed at 1080p. If that's really the case, then is the only advantage to buying Blu-ray discs the added capacity for extras? Or will Blu-ray movies look even better than DVDs upconverted to 1080p, even though they're technically both being displayed at 1080p?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:33 pm

RaulMonkey wrote:I've got a question about upconverting DVDs with a Blu-ray player. My owner's manual says that, with an HDMI cable, both DVDs and Blu-ray discs can be displayed at 1080p. If that's really the case, then is the only advantage to buying Blu-ray discs the added capacity for extras? Or will Blu-ray movies look even better than DVDs upconverted to 1080p, even though they're technically both being displayed at 1080p?


no, they won't look as good as blu-ray. DVDs are still only 480p, and no upconverting technology is good enough to "make up" the picture information that is lost going from a 1080p source to a 480p source. here's something those upconverting dvd players don't tell you: if you have a digital 1080p tv, your tv is ALREADY upscaling ALL sources to 1080p. some dvd players may do it better than the tv's native conversion, but upconversion is something that has to happen before it can be displayed on a 1080p set, and all 1080p sets have that technology built in.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby RaulMonkey on Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:57 pm

I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway. DVDs are definitely looking better compared to my regular player, but BDs aren't any better.

Also, my TV's only 720p, so perhaps that will narrow the gap in quality between DVDs and BDs even after I buy an HDMI. But I was told by a technologically-inclined person that the difference between 720p and 1080p TVs is negligible when the screen is smaller than 40'' (mine is 32''.) Something about the individual pixels not having to "stretch" as much. Would anyone care to comment on the accuracy of this?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Gerald Fried on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:32 am

RaulMonkey wrote:I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway. DVDs are definitely looking better compared to my regular player, but BDs aren't any better.

Also, my TV's only 720p, so perhaps that will narrow the gap in quality between DVDs and BDs even after I buy an HDMI. But I was told by a technologically-inclined person that the difference between 720p and 1080p TVs is negligible when the screen is smaller than 40'' (mine is 32''.) Something about the individual pixels not having to "stretch" as much. Would anyone care to comment on the accuracy of this?

Indeed. I went through this with Kirk the other day.

You won't see any benefit from Full HD on a sub-40" screen.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Chairman Kaga on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:46 am

RaulMonkey wrote:I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway.

Why aren't you using an HDMI cable? Otherwise you BD player is pretty much completely pointless. No digital signal = sizeable difference in both audio and video.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby so sorry on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:58 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:
RaulMonkey wrote:I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway.

Why aren't you using an HDMI cable? Otherwise you BD player is pretty much completely pointless. No digital signal = sizeable difference in both audio and video.



Yeah, I thought the same thing. perhaps its a cost thing for Raul... those HDMI cables are pretty pricey, aren't they?
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Chairman Kaga on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:13 am

so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
RaulMonkey wrote:I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway.

Why aren't you using an HDMI cable? Otherwise you BD player is pretty much completely pointless. No digital signal = sizeable difference in both audio and video.



Yeah, I thought the same thing. perhaps its a cost thing for Raul... those HDMI cables are pretty pricey, aren't they?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... rder=PRICE
If you buy it in a BestBuy or something yes they are pretty expensive.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby RaulMonkey on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:53 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
RaulMonkey wrote:I see. Thanks, Bax. Right now all I have is the standard AV (red-white-yellow) cable for my Blu-ray player, so all discs are 480i anyway.


Why aren't you using an HDMI cable? Otherwise you BD player is pretty much completely pointless. No digital signal = sizeable difference in both audio and video.


I just got my player on December 6th, and I wasn't familiar with how necessary an HDMI was until I looked through the manual. But now that I am, I'll be getting one real soon. I need to wait 'til Christmas, 'cause somebody might give me one as a present (I included it on the wish list I sent out to my family.) But if I don't get one then, I'll score one myself ASAP.

Thanks for the link to the cheap cables, CK. I'm sure the quality of these lesser known brands is up to snuff, and even with shipping included they should still be at least half as expensive as the ones at Future Shop.
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Re: W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

Postby Pacino86845 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:56 pm

Future Shop aka Best Buy lackeys aka SELL OUTS!!!!

Dude cables at Future Shop run up to a hundred bucks, before tax! :shock:
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