W0W!1! SCIENC3!1! Blu-Ray FTW!

[stereosforgeeks]

however, no way am i buying any films in either format until this thing is settled. all the films i would want to buy, i already have on dvd. i'll just watch them that way until the war is over.

Yeah that is pretty much my stance right now as well. I seriously want to start buying some HD content though!

me too, but when i look at my DVD collection and see how many times I've been double-dipped, and sometimes even triple-dipped, already, i'm determined not to buy any movie if there's a chance i'll have to buy it all over again. i'm not even buying dvds now, i'm waiting til the format war is resolved so i can buy whatever i buy in an HD format. that means i haven't bought a dvd in over a year now, in the meantime i just rent what i want to watch on netflix or blockbuster.

i'm actually less worried about the player becoming obsolete, than about the media. we all know that a lot more money gets spent on the media than the player, no matter how much the player originally cost.

The only DVDs I have been buying lately are Criterions.

[vicious_bastard]

I've been bigging up Blu-ray but at least for now, I'm taking the HD-DVD plunge. I'm so pissed off with this shit computer in my house that I decided to buy a laptop and found a reasonably priced one with a 17 inch widescreen, HDMI out and HD-DVD drive. Five free movies as well which I will pick up when I return to London in a few weeks and then hopefully not lose/be mugged for in Thailand.

As I'm all over the place these days there's no point in either buying a stand-alone player or a desktop PC, so this seems like the best option. I'm not too fussed about HD right now to be honest, but it's only about another 100 quid on top of how much I was planning to spend on a laptop anyway.

Not the biggest selection of free movies but I'll be happy with Full Metal Jacket, Serenity, Corpse Bride, Children of Men and Hulk. No doubt I'll grab a few more while I'm back in The Smoke. Hopefully I'll find a cheapo Chinese supplier when I get back.

[wonkabar]

Bay is still blu...

Kinda offtop, but not really. From The Official Micheal Bay Forums ala thedigitalbits.com "What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth. Bay"... http://tinyurl.com/225ddz

Why doesn't Hollywood just tell MS & proxy Toshiba to take their cheap-ass Chinese players and stick 'em right up each other's asses and go fuck themselves silly/stupid?

That's it. I'm getting a PS3, Kubrick & Blade Runner on Blu-Ray and a bunch of PS2 games.

I'm so over this "war"

[wonkabar]

More Blu-Bay at the Bits

[wonkabar]

BD-player for under 300

[Fievel]

BD-player for under 300

I was hoping it was that Sony model that also played video games.

[stereosforgeeks]

Warner to go Blu-Ray?

[Bayouwolf]

I've got a XB360, but no HD-DVD yet. The format is still to new and I can get the same films on DVD. When this machine craps out, I'm not going to get stuck buying a stand alone player just for a handful of discs.

With that being said, I think Blu-ray will champion the fight. (A PS3 would make a nice addition to my collection, but the price is still too high for the current content of games/ movies. And I remember what the original PS2 did to some of my DVD collection. Burn me once shame on me, blah blah, blah...)


I'm waiting out this war as well.

[Lord Voldemoo]

I'm going to try to hold out until they are both obsolete.

[Bayouwolf]

I'm going to try to hold out until they are both obsolete.

Just wait until laser disc players come out.. I hear George Lucas is behind it 100%..

[wonkabar]

$270 Blu-Ray player with all the fixin's

[wonkabar]

Warner to go Blu-Ray?

Uh, maybe not

[Lord Voldemoo]

man i wish the assholes would just do someting so I'd know what to buy.

[stereosforgeeks]

man i wish the assholes would just do someting so I'd know what to buy.

Exactly. I want to start buying media up the wazoo.

[wonkabar]

man i wish the assholes would just do someting so I'd know what to buy.

Boy you said it dude.

Stupid Struggling Background Artists. It's in there best interest to get this shite settled and end consumer confusion/holdout.

They're the ones who's overall home movie sales are down.

Pick one, I don't care which one just pick one you idiots

[TheBaxter]

FOURTHED

[godzillasushi]

It will probably be neither honestly....

[stereosforgeeks]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

[Chairman Kaga]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

[stereosforgeeks]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

It will definitely happen in the not too far future.

We'd need an internet infrastructure like korea though to support it.

[Bayouwolf]

Where's Al Gore when you need him....
Can't he just upgrade the net' at will?

[godzillasushi]

Didn't they just say the Internet is actually reaching capacity? I read somewhere about a technology once that allowed higher speeds through actually power plug-ins. And they used power lines to access that connection. Also, there is always the telegraph. Can't believe no one thought of that in a practical way before...

[wonkabar]

It will probably be neither honestly....

I hope not. HD looks sweet

I don't want to just stick with DVDs 'till the much heralded arrival of Digital Downloading.

I still think that stuff is further off from a practical, general consumer standpoint.

People on the web often say that JohnQ Public doesn't know shit about HD/the format war and doesn't care. Yet they go on to say that Downloads are here/the future of everything. Not the near future I don't think. JohnQ will much sooner embrace a new HD format than they will downloads. JohnQ still doesn't understand why WindowsMP don't play his itunes. JohnQ ain't gonna get into downloads for a good ten years or so. It ain't easier to him....it's just more bother with them crazy computers.

So, for roughly the next decade I would like to enjoy watching my HD-TV with HD-discs....not upconverted DVDs....but "Full (1080p) HD"

[TheBaxter]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

they're also fooling themselves if they think they're gonna be the ones to profit from it. it'll be iTunes and Netflix and probably some company that doesn't even exist yet, while MS tries to play catch-up.

[stereosforgeeks]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

[godzillasushi]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Now your talking.

[stereosforgeeks]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Now your talking.

*drool*

[wonkabar]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Indeed

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

they're also fooling themselves if they think they're gonna be the ones to profit from it. it'll be iTunes and Netflix and probably some company that doesn't even exist yet, while MS tries to play catch-up.

There are just so many unanswered questions with DL. What if I want to watch at a friends house- on my iPod - on this - that etc. Copyrights, hard-drive space....though MS has mentioned web-based drives in the future. It's all gonna be a big clusterfuck for awhile when you think about it... and most people still like to have a product in their hands.

Individual songs for 99 cents on your Nano is one thing. Renting a movie for a day on your 360 is one thing. But when it comes to actually owning big ass HD-files with tones of extras, special features, deleted scenes, commentary etc....

Discs aren't going anywhere soon I don't think,

and we shouldn't want them to IMO

[MadCapsule]

Well, if I had the money to spend, I'd say "Fuck the Blu-ray/HDDVD competition!" and just watch em both on this.

Wishful thinking for me at this point, though.

[wonkabar]

Well, if I had the money to spend, I'd say "Fuck the Blu-ray/HDDVD competition!" and just watch em both on this.

Wishful thinking for me at this point, though.

You could buy a 360 along with an HD add-on, and a PS3....fuck, maybe even a Wii for what that thing probably costs.

[stereosforgeeks]

Well, if I had the money to spend, I'd say "Fuck the Blu-ray/HDDVD competition!" and just watch em both on this.

Wishful thinking for me at this point, though.

You could buy a 360 along with an HD add-on, and a PS3....fuck, maybe even a Wii for what that thing probably costs.

There are a bunch of those types of products but all are ridiculously expensive.

[Chairman Kaga]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Indeed

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

they're also fooling themselves if they think they're gonna be the ones to profit from it. it'll be iTunes and Netflix and probably some company that doesn't even exist yet, while MS tries to play catch-up.

There are just so many unanswered questions with DL. What if I want to watch at a friends house- on my iPod - on this - that etc. Copyrights, hard-drive space....though MS has mentioned web-based drives in the future. It's all gonna be a big clusterfuck for awhile when you think about it... and most people still like to have a product in their hands.

Individual songs for 99 cents on your Nano is one thing. Renting a movie for a day on your 360 is one thing. But when it comes to actually owning big ass HD-files with tones of extras, special features, deleted scenes, commentary etc....

Discs aren't going anywhere soon I don't think,

and we shouldn't want them to IMO

I agree. Also consider this...

If both formats (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) not only survive but thrive what kind of message does that send to to studios when it comes time for mass downloadable content? Imagine if each of the six major studios had their own proprietary format. If they don't see a need to unify content for the consumer they won't do it just to save money. Suddenly John Q. Public has a set top box or server space for his downloads but needs to update to a new Paramount Codec every few months. The average consumer is not an IT person and doesn't want to be.

[stereosforgeeks]

I think I just threw up a bit thinking about that possible outcome.

[Chairman Kaga]

I think it's a distinct possibly if one of the new HD discs doesn't fail creating a de facto winner.

[Lord Voldemoo]

fuck it, I'm going back to betamax.

[stereosforgeeks]

I think it's a distinct possibly if one of the new HD discs doesn't fail creating a de facto winner.

Thats why I allmost threw up. I can see it happening too!

[CeeBeeUK]

fuck it, I'm going back to betamax.

I always thought Ciné film was underrated, sure it was fiddly, but feel the atmosphere!

[tapehead]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Actually, with HD, it's actually PSF, as in Progressive, Sequential Frames, rather than fps (frames per second).

[stereosforgeeks]

but "Full (1080p) HD"

Dont forget the 60fps.

Actually, with HD, it's actually PSF, as in Progressive, Sequential Frames, rather than fps (frames per second).

well look at big brain on tapes!

[tapehead]

It's the big difference between 1080i and 1080p, or 720, for that matter.

[Bayouwolf]

It's the big difference between 1080i and 1080p, or 720, for that matter.

Unless you've got a gi-normous screen, or a high end Plasma unit, you're only gonna notice a slight difference between i and p at 1080.

Watching HD discs on my 56" DLP TV, I only noticed a slightly better refresh rate during heavy FX scenes, but overall picture quality remained pretty much the same with 1080p vs. 1080i.

[tapehead]

I think that's true for the average viewer - it's gonna be something you notice, if you have a discerning eye - particularly in fast moving action scenes, and especially with moving camera shots.

[stereosforgeeks]

I think that's true for the average viewer - it's gonna be something you notice, if you have a discerning eye - particularly in fast moving action scenes, and especially with moving camera shots.

Unless your trained to see it too.

Anything under 50" though unless you know what to look for you wont see it.

[wonkabar]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

they're also fooling themselves if they think they're gonna be the ones to profit from it. it'll be iTunes and Netflix and probably some company that doesn't even exist yet, while MS tries to play catch-up.

There are just so many unanswered questions with DL. What if I want to watch at a friends house- on my iPod - on this - that etc. Copyrights, hard-drive space....though MS has mentioned web-based drives in the future. It's all gonna be a big clusterfuck for awhile when you think about it... and most people still like to have a product in their hands.

Individual songs for 99 cents on your Nano is one thing. Renting a movie for a day on your 360 is one thing. But when it comes to actually owning big ass HD-files with tones of extras, special features, deleted scenes, commentary etc....

Discs aren't going anywhere soon I don't think,

and we shouldn't want them to IMO

I agree. Also consider this...

If both formats (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) not only survive but thrive what kind of message does that send to to studios when it comes time for mass downloadable content? Imagine if each of the six major studios had their own proprietary format. If they don't see a need to unify content for the consumer they won't do it just to save money. Suddenly John Q. Public has a set top box or server space for his downloads but needs to update to a new Paramount Codec every few months. The average consumer is not an IT person and doesn't want to be.

I think it's a distinct possibly if one of the new HD discs doesn't fail creating a de facto winner.

Thats why I allmost threw up. I can see it happening too!

That's some chilling shit right there.

[tapehead]

I'm not sure why it's so scary - doesn't it compare with say, the ITunes / emusic / napster model for music files?
I know the XBox recently updated with support for mpeg 4 files such as Xvid and Divx. HD Content is likely to encoded with H264 or something similar, and delivered straight to your console - be it pc, XBox PS3 or whatever Apple comes out with, along with codec and firmware updates. Doesn't really seem like a nightmare to me, so much as it seems... very convenient. It's going to suit the hell out of the gaming crowd, while the rest can still go buy a stand alone player and buy discs, or upgrade to networked home entertainment.

Digital Rights management is the thing to be concerned about, not codecs or firmware.

[stereosforgeeks]

The scary part is having each studio put out their own proprietary format. Streaming media files is incredibly useful. I will miss the physical copies being a collector and all, but I got over it with cds and I will get over it with movies.

[TheBaxter]

It will probably be neither honestly....

Thats what Michael Bay thinks. He blames the MS.

Unfortunately Bay is probably correct. MS is fooling themselves though if they think HD downloads are anything but a pipe dream until most of the US internet infrastructure is significantly upgraded. They might as well relent and allow another decade cycle of physical media.

they're also fooling themselves if they think they're gonna be the ones to profit from it. it'll be iTunes and Netflix and probably some company that doesn't even exist yet, while MS tries to play catch-up.

There are just so many unanswered questions with DL. What if I want to watch at a friends house- on my iPod - on this - that etc. Copyrights, hard-drive space....though MS has mentioned web-based drives in the future. It's all gonna be a big clusterfuck for awhile when you think about it... and most people still like to have a product in their hands.

Individual songs for 99 cents on your Nano is one thing. Renting a movie for a day on your 360 is one thing. But when it comes to actually owning big ass HD-files with tones of extras, special features, deleted scenes, commentary etc....

Discs aren't going anywhere soon I don't think,

and we shouldn't want them to IMO

i agree with this, i don't think physical media is going away anytime soon. there will be a market for downloaded films, but it will take a long time, if ever, to replace physical media. even today, CDs still outsell iTunes.

another thing with downloaded movies is, the greedy studios want to charge the same price as DVDs for them. this is partly because of the assholes at Walmart who threaten to stop selling DVDs if downloaded movies are cheaper - but who wants to buy a bunch of $20 movie files? and we've all known people who had their hard drives with all their music tracks crash and die, how would they feel about losing a couple hundred $20 downloaded movies they can never get back?

[Chairman Kaga]

I'm not sure why it's so scary - doesn't it compare with say, the ITunes / emusic / napster model for music files?
I know the XBox recently updated with support for mpeg 4 files such as Xvid and Divx. HD Content is likely to encoded with H264 or something similar, and delivered straight to your console - be it pc, XBox PS3 or whatever Apple comes out with, along with codec and firmware updates. Doesn't really seem like a nightmare to me, so much as it seems... very convenient. It's going to suit the hell out of the gaming crowd, while the rest can still go buy a stand alone player and buy discs, or upgrade to networked home entertainment.

Digital Rights management is the thing to be concerned about, not codecs or firmware.

No, I don't think really compares. All of those formats are third party standards none of which were created by a media conglomerate delivering their own media.

If the studios see no reason to pay patent licensing rights to use one standard format, because the market shows multiple formats can co-exist simultaneously (ie if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both stay solvent), they will simply create their own. Thus you would have atleast six different streaming or download formats on top of the already available formats from Divx, the VCEG, Apple, Microsoft etc. It would be a clusterfuck for the average non-techie consumer especially if the studios already in bed with certain electronics manufacturers (like Sony Imageworks/Columbia) make their codecs/compression formats hardware specific.

This doesn't even address the inherent difference between the appeal of downloading individual songs vs purchasing an album on CD which doesn't translate to film model....People aren't going to download a single scene or sequence of a movie to carry around with them instead of the whole movie.

[wonkabar]

Exactly. I think if all we did was download it would probably kill off the whole "extras" thing we've all become accustomed to with DVD. Or least make it such a pain in the ass we wouldn't even want to bother.

Actually, I think that's one of the things studios will do to entice people to continue to buy discs. Like 3-D, which is meant to get people's butts back into theaters, studios will probably reserve all the goodies for discs. (You wouldn't want all stuff that on your hard drive anyway)

Which is another case for Blu since it has room for all that stuff. It's insane how much they'll be able to jam-pack onto one of those puppies.

So, if BD comes out on top, expect to be double-dipped on some of the movies that are being released right now....cuz they'll probably come out with Super-Editions in a few years that have like, (literally) a day's worth of material on them. Along with more things included in the package....posters, figures, coupons, golden tickets etc. etc.

Oh, btw Harry's got a BD-player now too

[tapehead]

With regard to the extras, it's really a pretty simple proposition to have several audio streams accompanying a video track - there really is no need for such digital media to ever be encoded to a physical product, it's just what we're used to. I think it would open up the possibility of films being offered in various forms, perhaps a tiered sales approach - a bare bones version, one with languages and comentary tracks and subs, and then a 'pack' or bundle' with options for extras - potentially it could give the buyer more options and reduce the possiblity of 'double-dipping' exploitation. I would cite the instance of Darren Aronofsky releasing a free commentary for the Fountain in the last couple of months as an excellent example of this (although in this instance, of course, you need a bit of know-how to add the audio to the video, or at least be able to operate a dvd and a media player at the same time - I still find the idea of the director just doing it because he wanted to pretty cool) - once you have a movie, you can simply upgrade the options and extras, rather than having to but the product all over again.

I'm not sure why it's so scary - doesn't it compare with say, the ITunes / emusic / napster model for music files?
I know the XBox recently updated with support for mpeg 4 files such as Xvid and Divx. HD Content is likely to encoded with H264 or something similar, and delivered straight to your console - be it pc, XBox PS3 or whatever Apple comes out with, along with codec and firmware updates. Doesn't really seem like a nightmare to me, so much as it seems... very convenient. It's going to suit the hell out of the gaming crowd, while the rest can still go buy a stand alone player and buy discs, or upgrade to networked home entertainment.

Digital Rights management is the thing to be concerned about, not codecs or firmware.

No, I don't think really compares. All of those formats are third party standards none of which were created by a media conglomerate delivering their own media.

If the studios see no reason to pay patent licensing rights to use one standard format, because the market shows multiple formats can co-exist simultaneously (ie if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both stay solvent), they will simply create their own. Thus you would have atleast six different streaming or download formats on top of the already available formats from Divx, the VCEG, Apple, Microsoft etc. It would be a clusterfuck for the average non-techie consumer especially if the studios already in bed with certain electronics manufacturers (like Sony Imageworks/Columbia) make their codecs/compression formats hardware specific.

This doesn't even address the inherent difference between the appeal of downloading individual songs vs purchasing an album on CD which doesn't translate to film model....People aren't going to download a single scene or sequence of a movie to carry around with them instead of the whole movie.

The way I see it, if they don't find a way to make their format operate easily and without a fuss, then their format will fail, leaving them with only the option of going with a commonly supported codec. If you don't have a personal computer, console or networked home entertainment system, you're not a part of this potential market.

The whole comparison of tracks versus albums doesn't come into this equation; the matter of individual episodes in a certain series might.