Opinions on DVD Region Codes

Betamax and beyond

Opinions on DVD Region Codes

Postby Mrblonde885 on Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:00 am

I'm currently writing a paper on DVD region codes for a paper in my Engineering Writing course. The paper needs to focus on American attitudes toward the technology. I figured a good way to do that would be to go directly to american consumers and get their opinions on the subject. What better place to do that than in the DVD section of a movie themed message board? So, if anyone would like to help me out, all I'm looking for is what you think of the idea behind the region codes. Perhaps you hate them because they limit what dvd's you can watch, or maybe you don't care and find them pretty much inconsequential. Either way, your opinions are likely to help me out.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:03 am

With region free DVD players, they really don't effect me anymore...
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Postby Doc Holliday on Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:47 am

You'd get a different response if you were focussing on European attitudes perhaps....although the availability of multi-region DVD players will dilute any answers to this. Reason being that so often the better versions of DVD's widely available in the US don't make it to Europe. Sometimes it works the other way - but not often.

The problem comes not so much in the reasons behind the need for various regions....I can stand to wait 4 months more here or 4 months less there for a titles release....its when you get different DVD's released that's a bugbear to me. Like when you only get the vanilla in Europe, but the full extended cut/deleted scenes/director's commentary in the US.

Very annoying - just make the same DVD available worldwide....I just don't get the thinking behind it.
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:47 am

But why did you want to get a region free Poopflingius Maximus... I think thats what Mr Blonde would like to know! :-) :-) :-)
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:24 am

Region free isn't necessarily a good thing. My flatmate, who's an editor, always waits for R2 Pal releases because NTSC just doesn't give as good a picture. May be worth bearing in mind.
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:20 am

Depends on the TV. If you have TV which accepts NTSC singal then its fine.

Also, as mad as I am about films, dvds, widescreen formats etc. I try to never get into rows over quality. The quality isn't that much difference. If someone is a audio/videophile and they make it their business to notice the difference then fine. But as for me... I watched a hundred different region coded dvd's on a undred different style TV sets and I've never been bothered about NTSC/Pal quality.

And with a decent TV that worry isn't worth it.

I hate region coding. If all dvd's where Region 0 (which owuld be easy to do) its fine.

I read somewhere that MPAA etc wanted to make it illegal for Americans to buy DVD's from other country's.

And I don't mean there own product.

Say you wanted to buy Oldboy when it came out in Asia - the offical, Asian release - they wanted to bust you for it when it got imported! This may be law now or it may have been scrapped for being completly disgusting! Something to look at maybe Mr Blonde...

My personnel view being english is that the consumer should be able to choose. If you're not buying a pirate edition and you are acutally paying the company your hard earned money because you love a product they have made so much... you shouldn't be penalised for that! I've never heard such disgusting business processes... but they do it and they get away with it!

But over int eh UK almost every other DVD player is multi region. Even the cheapo makes. So you can get a DVD of your choosing, from anywhere in the world. You have the choice... :-) and its nice to have that :-)
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Postby Chilli on Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:34 am

I found a code to make my (five yrs old) DVD player multi-region. It's pretty straightforward.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:42 am

My take on it is what kind of gentleman makes different, region-specific versions in the first place? I mean...we're rarely talking about stuff that has to be different for cultural regions...its like if its an Asian film, why should only the Asian copy get all the cool extras? Fuck that shit man....that kind of divisive mentality is what gets wars started....its shoddy-toss-wank is what it is.

Put that in your dissertation....
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:52 am

I heard the real reason for the iraq war starting was because Bush couldn't get the DVD he wanted... Hussain wouldn't return it... that rotten bastard! :-)
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:01 am

Boba, my friend is correct on NTSC/Pal signal difference. It's very, very noticeable whether you're a videophile or not due to the difference in resolution and interlacing - my point is nothing to do with whether your TV can accept the signal. I've stopped buying R3 releases lately and have started to wait for R2 for this very reason. True, if you're just after the film quicker or cheaper you're likely not going to care, but it is something worth factoring into the equation for the original poster.
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:06 am

Thats cool - cos I ain'ta video phile

But I have never once notices in my dual NTSC/Pal signal 110hz TV a difference. Honestly.

A good 50% of my DVD's are Region 1 and perhaps 20% are Region 3. So perhaps thats 600 or so DVD's - I don't EVER remember watching one and thinking: Damn thats bad qaulity

I remeber thinkging: Hell yeah I've got this and it ain't coming out in England for ages... or ever! (like the genius American Movie - I'm glad I didn't wait for that!)

However, I ain't a videophile and perhaps my eyes decieve me. Does anyone else feel like this? Am I alone

I'm sure there must be more brits here who watch british DVD's on NTSC/PAL TV's - do you notice quality difference? And, like I said before, I'm not talking minute difference's... I'm talking:

"Oh hey - you must be watching an NTSC film - I can't wait that its shit looking"

I honestly want to know. I'm at work at the mo but I'm rather worried that I've been duped by my DVDs, DVD player and TV... fuckers! :-)
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Postby Fried Gold on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:19 am

The NTSC/PAL difference is true. An NTSC signal simply doesn't have enough true information to fit a PAL television screen. I think PAL image is made up of about 60,000 extra pixels to a NTSC image. A higher-end player and television improves the quality, otherwise there can be a noticeable difference in image quality.


As for region coding, it's neither a new concept or one that DVD brought in. Games systems have used region lockouts since the 80s, something which people like Special Reserve took advantage of at the time.

I'm still not that sure what the reason for using it is. The production companies will probably use copyright protection or piracy issues as justification, but it's probably really to control the content, date and price of a release.

I seem to remember that someone in the US who tries to get around region coding is breaking one of the "millenium acts". Here in the UK you can legally buy region free players and it's easy enough to buy foreign discs, so it isn't a particular issue here. I think some countries view the system as a violation of World Trade agreements and so are legally restricting the use of RCE now.

So it does come back to the varying of content between regions as the major problem. Why should a page like DVDCompare have to exist?
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:20 am

I'll be frank - I didn't believe him either. But there's a very noticeable difference between the two in terms of quality which even through our 28" CRT is quite noticeable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
The term "PAL" is often used informally to refer to a 625-line/50 Hz (576i, principally European) television system, and to differentiate from a 525-line/60 Hz (480i, principally North American/Central American/Japanese) "NTSC" system. Accordingly, DVDs are labelled as either "PAL" or "NTSC" (referring informally to the line count and frame rate) even though technically neither of them have encoded PAL or NTSC composite colour.


http://www.microcinema.com/index/ntsc
The encoded video (MPEG2) on a DVD is stored in digital format, but it's formatted for one of two mutually incompatible television systems: 525/60 (NTSC) or 625/50 (PAL/SECAM). Therefore, there are two kinds of DVD's: NTSC DVD's and PAL DVD's. Some players play only NTSC discs, others play PAL and NTSC discs. Discs are also coded for different regions of the world but that's a different issue and shouldn't be confused with this particular discussion. See below.


The guy's been an editor for over ten years, so I tend to trust his opinion on these matters... :)
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Postby Doc Holliday on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:26 am

Fried Gold wrote:So it does come back to the varying of content between regions as the major problem. Why should a page like DVDCompare have to exist?


So for example...I had to get my Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas DVD as a US Import because the UK version wasn't available (then when it was I think it was just vanilla).

WHY? WHY?

And as for the Asian films that have extras on the Asian version, but not the English Language release...to me thats just a big fuck you to the rest of the world for not being Asian. The mentality...whatever the nationality (because all continents are guilty on different titles)....well, it just strikes me as dumb. Why alienate a goodly portion of your own audience? Your biting the hand that feeds you is what you're doing....
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:28 am

I get Asian disks for the extras and the covers. I love my copies of Re-Cycle and The Great Yokai War even if the picture quality is poor, because the boxes are so fucking cool!
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Postby John-Locke on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:51 am

It's true that NTSC looks a lot worse than PAL, people in the industry call it Never The Same Colour because it can look so shitty.

SBF of course you don't notice the difference, weren't you the one that said your TV makes everything look blue?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:30 am

Ah, glad some people here know their stuff about NTSC/PAL, because I know dick-all.

Could someone explain to me the concept of PAL "slowdown"? I've heard that PAL versions of movies can play back 4% slower than NTSC versions. I specifically heard this from someone about Lost Highway, he said he had to get a R1 copy, because he noticed the slowdown too much. I have no clue what he meant - can anybody enlighten me?

He then went on to say that it was a shame because, as others have stated, PAL carries a better image quality.
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:12 am

Titg: Would love to answe, cos I've heard this and the answer before - but can't remember and sure someone can give you a more detailed answer if I could. Part of me thinks its just a mistake and something to do with the fact that they're at 24fps and we're at 25fps. But I'm prob wrong!

Anyway, as for the PAL/NTSC debate - you're right there is a difference but what I'm saying, and if you ask your editor friend he will confirm, that if you have an NTSC/PAL TV with a setting over 60hz, mine is at 110hz, it can handle the singal with no loss.

I'm not talkng a TV with a decent scart that stops it playing in B&W. I'm talking a high end TV that plays it to no noticable difference.

As for for my blue TV - John Lock I am impressed with your memory. The TV down stairs is the good 155hz one.

The TV in my room, also wide screen but only 36", is indeed tinted blue. However last night it appeared to "blow up" the screen shrunk to a pink glow even after I unplugged it!

Well, here comes the excuse for the bedroom plasma I thought!

No such luck - but instead: another kind of luck: when I turned the TV on it displayed fine with no blue tint.

But it didn't make any difference cos I stuck on a CSI and they're always tinted blue anyway! :-)
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:29 am

Ahhh...the old slow down debate.

Anyone remember the old Jap Snes Vs the UK Snes and the whole 17.5% slower on 50 Hz machines so you could never get the high scores for Mario Kart in the back of 'Super play'?


To be honest you wouldn't notice the slowdown...as for 4% slower, you do the Maths.

If UK is 25 frames per second and USA is 24, shouldn't that mean that the UK stuff is 1/24th faster when playing on a US machine?

The problem really lies within the decoder itself and its the a companies half assed attempt at making a region free.
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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:32 am

I just need to chime in here and point out that NTSC runs at 29.97 FPS............I knew that Broadcasting degree would come in useful one day!!
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Postby mistertim on Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:56 am

colonel_lugz wrote:I just need to chime in here and point out that NTSC runs at 29.97 FPS............I knew that Broadcasting degree would come in useful one day!!


That's drop-frame NTSC. Non-drop runs at 30fps....

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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:06 am

mistertim wrote:
colonel_lugz wrote:I just need to chime in here and point out that NTSC runs at 29.97 FPS............I knew that Broadcasting degree would come in useful one day!!


That's drop-frame NTSC. Non-drop runs at 30fps....

:)


The standard is 29.97, but it can be a 30p signal after a 2:2 pullup
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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:12 am

Incidently do you know what NTSC stands for?.....


Never The Same Colour Twice

*chuckles to self*

Industry joke fellas, dont worry about it

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Postby DennisMM on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:20 am

John-Locke wrote:It's true that NTSC looks a lot worse than PAL, people in the industry call it Never The Same Colour because it can look so shitty.


lugz, you got mildly pwnd here, sorry to say.

I'd love all-region DVDs and would adore higher resolution on my TV. A global standard above PAL would be great. I remember seeing half-inch bootleg video of Dr. Who in the early '80s. Blue/green shimmering colors and some tracking distortion many times each minute.
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Postby mistertim on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:32 am

colonel_lugz wrote:
mistertim wrote:
colonel_lugz wrote:I just need to chime in here and point out that NTSC runs at 29.97 FPS............I knew that Broadcasting degree would come in useful one day!!


That's drop-frame NTSC. Non-drop runs at 30fps....

:)


The standard is 29.97, but it can be a 30p signal after a 2:2 pullup
8)


Now you're just making stuff up.... :)

but yes, drop fram is the standard, otherwise it slowly goes out of synch with 'real' time for reasons i can't quite understand. Basically it's 30 frames a second but you lose a frame every hour.
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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:35 am

DennisMM wrote:
John-Locke wrote:It's true that NTSC looks a lot worse than PAL, people in the industry call it Never The Same Colour because it can look so shitty.


lugz, you got mildly pwnd here, sorry to say.


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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:35 am

mistertim wrote:
colonel_lugz wrote:
mistertim wrote:
colonel_lugz wrote:I just need to chime in here and point out that NTSC runs at 29.97 FPS............I knew that Broadcasting degree would come in useful one day!!


That's drop-frame NTSC. Non-drop runs at 30fps....

:)


The standard is 29.97, but it can be a 30p signal after a 2:2 pullup
8)


Now you're just making stuff up.... :)

but yes, drop fram is the standard, otherwise it slowly goes out of synch with 'real' time for reasons i can't quite understand. Basically it's 30 frames a second but you lose a frame every hour.


Not that any of this matters when encoding on to DVD......threadjack over
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:38 am

Does anyone know whether the difference in HDTV standard will also affect USA/UK/International HDDVD's?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:39 am

WHY WHY WHY WHY FUCKING WHY did they now have to introduce 2 Region DVDs in this country for us to choose from, just like VHS and Betamax. Fuck it! As if we didn't have enough to wrroy about with them already. PISS OFF CHOICE MAKERS!!!!
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:48 pm

Anyway, as for the PAL/NTSC debate - you're right there is a difference but what I'm saying, and if you ask your editor friend he will confirm, that if you have an NTSC/PAL TV with a setting over 60hz, mine is at 110hz, it can handle the singal with no loss.


I'm not sure this makes any difference with conformed NTSC DVD's (the resolution won't be bumped, it is what it is), I'm pretty sure it just means your TV can handle the resolution if needed. I mean, we've got a Pal/NTSC compatible CRT but the difference between Silent Hill R1 and Silent Hill R2 is palpable. Regardless, I'll check it.
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Postby silentbobafett on Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:43 am

Thats what I mean... if you're running a decent DVD on a shit hot TV that handles both NTSC and Pal signals on a high resolution... you really aren't going to notice a difference unless you spend the whole film looking for the slightest of signs, which may or may not be there, and are therefore not watching the film.

I'd rather see a high quality film (of which region 1 or 2 DVD are) over lower quality stuff. BUt I'm a geek, and as my fellow geeks here will back me up on: seeing a film is above all things. Quality, laws, public opinion etc

So if I have to go to Gravedigger Video to get a copy of a 70's exploitation film on DVD but its poor quality... I'll do it... becuase no fuck has the balls to release it officially on DVD. As soon as a good copy comes out... I'll get it... providing the film is worth it of course.


For me, living in the UK,region codes aren't TOO much of a bother. I just look on the net between all the different counties, see who has the best extras 1st and the best box/set 2nd and then I'll buy it from what ever fucking country I choose because its a free world (something our region coding, MPAA loving friends seem to forget) and I'll get my DVD anywhere because its my money and there certainly isn't any quality lost around my house... :-)

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Postby Doc Holliday on Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:03 am

silentbobafett wrote:
For me, living in the UK,region codes aren't TOO much of a bother. I just look on the net between all the different counties, see who has the best extras 1st and the best box/set 2nd and then I'll buy it from what ever fucking country I choose because its a free world (something our region coding, MPAA loving friends seem to forget) and I'll get my DVD anywhere because its my money and there certainly isn't any quality lost around my house... :-)



I agree - but it occurs to me this isn't helping our friend who started the thread - it kind of sidesteps the issue rather than addresses it. It would seem that multi-region DVD players aren't so legal in the US - which is where the question is based. So pretend you DON'T have multi-region capabilities for just 5 minutes and now consider how fair you think the multiple regions system is....and how much it would annoy you if one of your favourite films was only available to you in vanilla, whilst a 4 disc special is available elsewhere in the world.

That would address the topic I would think - me, I'm pretty unimpressed with the situation...and have yet to hear a valid excuse for the various versions of DVD's. Release dates yes...but different versions, no.
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Postby silentbobafett on Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:02 am

Region Codes suck. nuff said.


I think its disgusting that you can't get a product you want to own from anywhere in the world. I see no decent, truthfull argument to tell me otherwise either.

They don't regon code CD's.... so why DVD's? :-)
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Postby Mrblonde885 on Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:33 pm

Actually, this is quite an interesting discussion. I used a couple comments from you, Doc in my first draft. My prof actually told me to include some sort of views from international consumers for my second draft, so I'll probably use some other stuff from this thread. It's been a great help. Also, I didn't know a lot of the stuff about NTSC and PAL. Thanks to everyone for posting in this thread.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:07 pm

My pleasure Mr Blonde... so we're cool right?

I mean...you can put the switchblade knife away now yes? and untie me from the chair?

What's that....what's in the can? Do I smell gas....hey, anyone else smell gas here?

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Postby silentbobafett on Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:57 pm

Well I've got the match muthafucker.... now squeal.... :-)
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