Grindhouse, or how we, the fans, get screwed over again...

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Grindhouse, or how we, the fans, get screwed over again...

Postby Conroy420 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:37 pm

So I just read on Chud [ here's the link: http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=specialed&id=11374 ] that the upcoming release of Grindhouse is far from perfect.

I know it's a bit of a nit pick to say that it's a bitch to have to get up to flip the disc to view either film but TO NOT HAVE THE TRAILERS totally takes away from Grindhouse as an experience.

Many of my friends, like most mainstream viewers, were unsure about paying out $10 to see this film. It just looked to daffy for them, the gun-leg babe was a major focus point.

I was hoping with the DVD release that they would give the film a chance and see how fun it actually is. The trailers area huge factor of that.

I know that we do get some of the missing reels; it just pisses me off that we don't get the same experience I had in the theater when I get the DVD.

Hell, I might not even buy the DVD for this very reason. I've resisted to get 'Kill Bill' because I'm awaiting the ever-pending special edition.

I just wish they did this release right.
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Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby bastard_robo on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:09 am

Got a strong feelin that this thread is going to get locked soon, so might as well chime in.

This is basicly what happens when studios panic and want to make some bit of dime back.

Now we're getting a chopped up movie on DVD, a month apart from each other!
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Postby Conroy420 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:12 am

Why would they remove this thread? I didn't see a Grindhouse thread in the DVD section of the boards. If there is one please place my post there.
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Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby bastard_robo on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:16 am

I figured the mods would want this under the GRINDHOUSE thread, but what do I know... weirder things have happend.
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Postby The Todd on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:19 am

Conroy420 wrote:Why would they remove this thread?


Because you link to CHUD
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Postby DennisMM on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:24 am

I think it works in this forum, guys. I'm not a mod anymore, but when a project moves to DVD you are allowed to discuss it here, as there is different information to share.
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Postby Conroy420 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:25 am

haha really?

I didn't realize there was beef between AICN and CHUD.

They are really polar opposite sites. One is very positive about many projects while the other is very negative about many projects. Which one is which I'll leave to you.
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Postby The Todd on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:25 am

DennisMM wrote:Blah. Blah. Blah.


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Postby magicmonkey on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:34 am

If this thread gets to two pages I'll leave it open... you have 10 minutes!

If you are so bummed about the DVD just download the movie, recorded in a cinema and relive the theater experience for free, with the poor picture quality actually adding to the grindhouse feel.
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Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby bastard_robo on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:37 am

magicmonkey wrote:If this thread gets to two pages I'll leave it open... you have 10 minutes!

If you are so bummed about the DVD just download the movie, recorded in a cinema and relive the theater experience for free, with the poor picture quality actually adding to the grindhouse feel.


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Postby DennisMM on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:54 am

The Todd wrote:
DennisMM wrote:Blah. Blah. Blah.



Did anyone hear something?

I thought not.
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Re: Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:21 am

Conroy420 wrote:...TO NOT HAVE THE TRAILERS totally takes away from Grindhouse as an experience...

Hell, I might not even buy the DVD for this very reason. I've resisted to get 'Kill Bill' because I'm awaiting the ever-pending special edition.

I just wish they did this release right.


Seconded!!!

Damn, I really loved Grindhouse and it was the most refreshing experience in a movie theatre that I'd had in a loooooong time. I can't remember the last time I sat in a movie theatre and experienced true joy not only for seeing a terrific film, but also for being there watching a double feature like that.

I love Tarantino's films, and some of Rodriguez's, but I only own one of their films on DVD: Jackie Brown. These guys' movies always get all fuckered on DVD, having all kinds of stupid releases and rereleases and stupid packaging.
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Postby DennisMM on Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:28 am

Is that really you, Founder? Didn't know you used words like "fuckered."

I didn't see Grindhouse in theaters and now I'm not sure I'll see it on DVD. It's as if they just cut out chunks of The Office because it's done in the fake-doc style and considered it acceptable.
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Postby Chilli on Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:49 am

Think about us poor Brits. We don't even get the full experience at the cinema, let alone DVD. Bloody American cinema audiences, why can't you come out in droves for experimental shit?
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:57 am

DennisMM wrote:Is that really you, Founder? Didn't know you used words like "fuckered."

I didn't see Grindhouse in theaters and now I'm not sure I'll see it on DVD. It's as if they just cut out chunks of The Office because it's done in the fake-doc style and considered it acceptable.


LOL yes it's me, I guess this news has me on edge!!

@Chilli: I live in Europe as well, but luckily I'd been in the US for a conference when Grindhouse was released. You betcha I went to see it, took a couple of people with me too... I did my part! (didn't change anything though... :()
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Postby Chilli on Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:10 am

Pacino86845 wrote:
DennisMM wrote:Is that really you, Founder? Didn't know you used words like "fuckered."

I didn't see Grindhouse in theaters and now I'm not sure I'll see it on DVD. It's as if they just cut out chunks of The Office because it's done in the fake-doc style and considered it acceptable.


LOL yes it's me, I guess this news has me on edge!!

@Chilli: I live in Europe as well, but luckily I'd been in the US for a conference when Grindhouse was released. You betcha I went to see it, took a couple of people with me too... I did my part! (didn't change anything though... :()


Fantastic stuff dude. What was it like as a cinematic experience? Were the Americans there up for it?
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:54 am

Chilli wrote:Fantastic stuff dude. What was it like as a cinematic experience? Were the Americans there up for it?


The room was packed, and the general audience was really getting a kick out of it I'd say, laughing at all the right moments... however, a handful of people left by the time Planet Terror was done. I'm guessing it was either 'cause they didn't realize there'd be a second feature, or because it was pretty warm in the room and they were tired of sitting down for so long. Admittedly, though I enjoyed Death Proof, it was tough staying focused on it at that point. I was pretty tired that day, having been up pretty early that morning, but mostly I think people really enjoyed the experience.
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Postby Chilli on Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:09 am

Ah.

Strikes me that its one of those things where if the people go, they dig it, but its getting them to go. Went to see Serenity in a small Welsh cinema, and the place was packed and everyone was reacting to the lines. Its just the fact that they're marketed poorly that's the problem.
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Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby bastard_robo on Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:22 am

Chilli wrote:Ah.

Strikes me that its one of those things where if the people go, they dig it, but its getting them to go. Went to see Serenity in a small Welsh cinema, and the place was packed and everyone was reacting to the lines. Its just the fact that they're marketed poorly that's the problem.


And releasing a 3 hour, R rated niche market film over the EASTER holiday...

The Weinstein's have no one but themselves to blame for its failure.
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:03 am

Chilli wrote:Think about us poor Brits. We don't even get the full experience at the cinema, let alone DVD. Bloody American cinema audiences, why can't you come out in droves for experimental shit?


:roll:

Did you see the money 300 made? I'd consider that stuff experimental. Not many come along, 300 did it, Grindhouse didn't.
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Postby Zarles on Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:07 am

I'll be buying at least the Death Proof DVD, just to give some support towards someday releasing the proper full version. Money talks...
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:08 pm

That's so crappy that studios are doing this to the consumers.

Those trailers were KEY!
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Postby TheBaxter on Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:30 pm

i'd rather have the trailers on DVD than either of the movies.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:56 pm

No one has mentioned the REAL IRONY here. The studios normally load their DVDs with tons of crap trailers that we don't want before the menu screen, and now that we want a trailer, they deny us. HA!
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Postby The Vicar on Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:12 pm

With the omission of the trailers, the cockup that was Grindhouse stutters to a weary halt.
Fucktards.
Gonna try to pimp us later, with a "special DVD release" including the beloved trailers, aren't ya?

Thought so.
Sod that.
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Postby magicmonkey on Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:16 am

I just watched "Death Proof" again. That last 30 mins is killah! I also developed another theory... Tarantino kills off his own stylised acting in the first half before launching into the expressive naturalism of the second half. You could argue that he had to do it 'cos Zoe is not an actor, and you'd be right, but she still acts amazingly well when on the bonnet/hood of that car( all things considered :lol:).
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Postby sonnyboo on Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:04 am

I'm not too disappointed. I preferred DEATH PROOF to PLANET TERROR, and now that I'm given the choice, I'd rather only own DEATH PROOF (which I bought this past weekend).

The ZOE doc and even the trailer for the documentary on her looks so incredibly kick ass.

I do miss the trailers. They had trailers before each movie, why not add them to each disc? That does sucketh, but then again, I liked Death Proof enough to own it by itself. Can't wait to see the extended cut when I get off work tonight...
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Postby wonkabar on Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:12 pm

sonnyboo wrote:I'm not too disappointed. I preferred DEATH PROOF to PLANET TERROR, and now that I'm given the choice, I'd rather only own DEATH PROOF (which I bought this past weekend).


My thoughts exactly. Except I'd rather have PLANET TERROR (which I'll buy sometime after 10-16)
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Postby RaulMonkey on Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:34 pm

In the GRINDHOUSE review thread, Zarles wrote:Picked up Death Proof on DVD this week, and I'm more in love with it than I was when I first saw it. It's the extended cut, and the extra 30 minutes or so really make it into a valid, complete film as opposed to the novelty it might've seemed like while attached to 'Grindhouse' as a whole. I can say with no reservation that DP is now one of my favorite Tarantino movies. Jackie Brown and Kill Bill still edge it out, but not by a whole hell of a lot.

Characters are expanded, plot points that seemed a little flimsy are fleshed out, explained, and paid off, and the uber-deliciousness of Vanessa Farlito and Mary-Elizabeth Winstead is abound like never before. I MUCH prefer this extended, full cut to the shorter version, and that's really the only part of Vern's review that I disagree with. Shorter is not better in this case at all.

The extras. Well, we don't get the trailers, as we all know, but there's really a lot included in this 2-disc set to kinda sorta make up for it. I haven't watched the second disc yet, but on the first, there are poster galleries, music selections, and some pretty good and appropriate trailers for other films, as well. I have a pet peeve with trailers being included on DVDs that have absolutely shit-all to do with the film whose DVD they appear on, so this was a definite plus for me. We get rarely-seen trailers for Planet Terror, 1408, a few other horror/thrillers, and on the second disc, a promo for a stuntwoman documentary featuring my secret Kiwi girlfriend, Zoe Bell. Can't wait to check that out.

I'll post more about this set after I check out the second disc, but for now, I really recommend picking it up. Yes, it's not the full Grindhouse experience, but if you're a Tarantino fan, this is well worth the dough. It's not QT at his very best, but what it is is Quentin absolutely having a lot of fun with his chosen source material. I watched it at 2 AM last night, and all I wanted to do when I was done was watch it again.

Oh, and if you buy it at Blockbuster, ask if they have any posters available. I got a kick-ass Death Proof poster for four extra bucks when I bought the DVD, and it's not just some cheapie bullshit, either. Great artwork, and what's more, it's printed on thick, durable cardstock.

If you're one of those people who are 'boycotting' this DVD release, let it be known that I think it's a ridiculous stand to take. If this release and Planet Terror don't sell, then you can pretty much say goodbye to any chance of the full Grindhouse experience being released at all. There's a lot worse you could do with 20 bucks, people. This thing is absolutely worth it.


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I was never one to shit on DEATH PROOF before, but IMO the extended cut is vastly superior. The whole story has more time to breathe and come to life, the character of Stuntman Mike is more sharply defined, and I feel as if the film's very nature as part of the slasher genre is better defined. The twenty seconds or so we spend with Stuntman Mike in his car as the girls are coming out of Guero's changes the feel of everything that happens at the Texas Chili Parlor. Seeing him creepily moaning and putting eye drops in while looking at pictures of the girls leaves no doubt: there's something seriously wrong with this guy! Everything he does after that becomes laced with menace, and there's a feeling of building suspense after that where I felt there was none in the theatrical cut. Until he zooms off with Pam (Rose McGowan), he was pretty damn likeable before! When he all of a sudden turns into a murderer, it felt a little bit out of left field. The Morricone music as Arlene spies his car outside of Guero's and the way the camera zooms onto his eye in the Chili Parlor were pretty much the only indications we had that something was awry. He seemed like a weirdo, sure, when he was unable to sneeze on the porch, but there was no palpable sense of threat there. When he asked Arlene if he scared her and she said "Yes," I was sort of like, "Really?"

Over the course of the movie we see three sides of Stuntman Mike: the charmer, the killer, and the crying little baby. In the theatrical cut there wasn't enough time for all of these sides to emerge organically and make the picture of a complete human being. It felt herky-jerky. One second he's the charmer, the next second he's the killer. Then all of a sudden he suffers a total meltdown and becomes the sad specimen of the film's closing minutes. But in the extended cut, we get to see all three of these sides earlier on. It's a much more balanced presentation. Mike's the crying little baby the first time we see him, and the fact that he has pictures of these young girls he's clearly stalking, the killer is there too. Then when he busts out the charmer as he slides his keys over to Pam to offer her a ride, it's like holy shit! He's even more dangerous than we thought. He knows how to get close to his victims! And then there's more of the needy fuckhead in the new scene outside of the convenience store too. It's all a much more satisfying presentation of a great, demented character.

I still don't understand the need for or the point of the references to Tarantino's earlier work sprinkled throughout the movie, and they are still distracting, but not as much as in the theatrical cut because now they're more spaced out! Score again.

At this point, I'm perfectly willing to wait for the GRINDHOUSE experience on DVD. I appreciate what Rodriguez and Tarantino were going for, and props to them for being adventurous and trying something different, but I don't think I can say it was an unqualified artistic success. I think another part of the reason I liked DEATH PROOF on DVD was that I could appreciate it on its own terms, instead of as part of this larger statement. I wasn't expecting a complete blood 'n' guts exploitation flick a la PLANET TERROR or even KILL BILL VOL. 1 from Tarantino's flick. I understood that the second half of GRINDHOUSE would be a more realistic, meandering movie. And I get that part of the grindhouse experience back in the day was watching two or three extremely different movies back-to-back, but that doesn't mean that it really works on an aesthetic level. I think that the realm of crazy titillation PLANET TERROR brought us to was a bad starting point to be at going in to DEATH PROOF. Freed from the constraints of the experimental construct he'd dreamed up with Robert Rodriguez, Tarantino's movie finds an astonishing life all its own. 9 out of 10!
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Postby Zarles on Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:28 pm

Wow, thanks, Raul! That banner kicks ass. I think it should go in every thread. :lol:

I watched the second disc last night, so I'll be back with comments on it later. Until then...

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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:28 pm

Even though I disliked "Death Proof" in the theatre (rather famously...er...), I'm interested in seeing this extended cut because, as I once said:

Lady Sheridan before that shit with Winslow started wrote:To me, Death Proof was just lacking something. For me, that was more of Stuntman Mike because I dug the character. I would be fine with the long dialogue if the villain had been given some more scenery to chew. I don't feel like I got enough distaste for him to root for the girls at the end.


I still stand by my original opinion that Tarantino forgot what he was doing halfway through. Grindhouse experience or not, I don't get why he released such a half-ass film. I wish he had taken his time and just released it as a stand-alone piece.
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Postby The Todd on Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:43 pm

I miss Winslow-five.....

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Postby RaulMonkey on Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:10 am

Lady Sheridan wrote:Even though I disliked "Death Proof" in the theatre (rather famously...er...), I'm interested in seeing this extended cut because, as I once said:

Lady Sheridan before that shit with Winslow started wrote:To me, Death Proof was just lacking something. For me, that was more of Stuntman Mike because I dug the character. I would be fine with the long dialogue if the villain had been given some more scenery to chew. I don't feel like I got enough distaste for him to root for the girls at the end.


I still stand by my original opinion that Tarantino forgot what he was doing halfway through. Grindhouse experience or not, I don't get why he released such a half-ass film. I wish he had taken his time and just released it as a stand-alone piece.


It sounds to me like the Extended Cut is just what you're looking for. And I can't help but agree with most of your beefs. It's a little bit annoying that we got a truncated version in the theatre. I mean, GRINDHOUSE was a cool idea and everything, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself which is more important: niftiness or greatness?
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Postby Zarles on Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:41 am

The extended cut makes it seem like a real film, not just a knock-off novelty piece. Stuntman Mike's character gets the most filling out in the extended cut, but he's certainly not the only one who receives that treatment. I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but Traci Thoms' character in this longer cut doesn't feel nearly as annoying as she did in the shortened version. (She didn't annoy me personally, but you get my drift...)

I don't blame QT for shortening his movie to fit into GH, but I'm sure glad that this version is being made available now so maybe we can see what he was initially going for. Actually, the version he showed at Cannes is eight minutes longer than this DVD edit. I want to see that, too, but whatever. I can live with this one. It really is a good film, no matter what the haters and misogynists might tell you.
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Postby sonnyboo on Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:10 am

I watched it in full 5.1 surround last night on my new DVD. I think it's much better. Some of the characters get a bit more exposition and it does draw you in more to everything. Overall, if it wasn't TARANTINO, I don't think anyone or any studio would let a movie be so chatty, but since I'm a fan, that's not a complaint - just a statement.

The new stuff gets sprinkled throughout and it's nice to see some black & white put in a modern movie again.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:13 am

the short shrift that stuntman mike got in the grindhouse version is one of my biggest peeves with that film too, so i'm looking forward to seeing more stuntman mike scenes in the extended version. i thought DP was ok, but it really didn't wow me. maybe the 2nd viewing will be an improvement.
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Postby Zarles on Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:23 am

The scene between Mike and Rosario's feet well establish his creepiness factor all by itself. Trust me.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:56 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:No one has mentioned the REAL IRONY here. The studios normally load their DVDs with tons of crap trailers that we don't want before the menu screen, and now that we want a trailer, they deny us. HA!


I bet it has to do with royalties. Since they aren't real trailers, but more like 1 minute movies, releasing them on the DVD would force payouts to at least 3 more directors, though the money would be considerably less than to Rodriguez and Tarantino.
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:06 pm

I can't believe those three directors, keen enough to do the project in the first place, would have a mind to pimp Rodriguez & Tarantino for a fistul of dollars.
Just doesn't settle right....

and I'd hate to think that they would.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:19 pm

more likely, the weinsteins, trying to make every last cent possible off of this, will release a separate dvd for each individual trailer... maybe it will be an extended director's cut trailer with an extra 20 seconds of footage added in, a director's commentary, and a 15-minute making of featurette. as well as about 6 trailers for upcoming shitty weinstein company films that you can't skip over at the very beginning.
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:42 pm

TheBaxter wrote:more likely, the weinsteins, trying to make every last cent possible off of this, will release a separate dvd for each individual trailer... maybe it will be an extended director's cut trailer with an extra 20 seconds of footage added in, a director's commentary, and a 15-minute making of featurette. as well as about 6 trailers for upcoming shitty weinstein company films that you can't skip over at the very beginning.


Douches.....
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Postby minstrel on Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:57 pm

TheBaxter wrote:more likely, the weinsteins, trying to make every last cent possible off of this, will release a separate dvd for each individual trailer... maybe it will be an extended director's cut trailer with an extra 20 seconds of footage added in, a director's commentary, and a 15-minute making of featurette. as well as about 6 trailers for upcoming shitty weinstein company films that you can't skip over at the very beginning.


Baxter, I have to say that it's very difficult for me to read intelligent and well-informed comments from you while looking at that av of yours - I just keep imagining the comments you make being shouted at me by this bawling Britney fanatic and I can't help laughing!

And leave Britney alone!

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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:01 pm

minstrel wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:more likely, the weinsteins, trying to make every last cent possible off of this, will release a separate dvd for each individual trailer... maybe it will be an extended director's cut trailer with an extra 20 seconds of footage added in, a director's commentary, and a 15-minute making of featurette. as well as about 6 trailers for upcoming shitty weinstein company films that you can't skip over at the very beginning.


Baxter, I have to say that it's very difficult for me to read intelligent and well-informed comments from you while looking at that av of yours - I just keep imagining the comments you make being shouted at me by this bawling Britney fanatic and I can't help laughing!


good, that's exactly the way i am while i'm typing them.
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:17 pm

RaulMonkey wrote:
In the GRINDHOUSE review thread, Zarles wrote:Picked up Death Proof on DVD this week, and I'm more in love with it than I was when I first saw it. It's the extended cut, and the extra 30 minutes or so really make it into a valid, complete film as opposed to the novelty it might've seemed like while attached to 'Grindhouse' as a whole. I can say with no reservation that DP is now one of my favorite Tarantino movies. Jackie Brown and Kill Bill still edge it out, but not by a whole hell of a lot.

Characters are expanded, plot points that seemed a little flimsy are fleshed out, explained, and paid off, and the uber-deliciousness of Vanessa Farlito and Mary-Elizabeth Winstead is abound like never before. I MUCH prefer this extended, full cut to the shorter version, and that's really the only part of Vern's review that I disagree with. Shorter is not better in this case at all.

The extras. Well, we don't get the trailers, as we all know, but there's really a lot included in this 2-disc set to kinda sorta make up for it. I haven't watched the second disc yet, but on the first, there are poster galleries, music selections, and some pretty good and appropriate trailers for other films, as well. I have a pet peeve with trailers being included on DVDs that have absolutely shit-all to do with the film whose DVD they appear on, so this was a definite plus for me. We get rarely-seen trailers for Planet Terror, 1408, a few other horror/thrillers, and on the second disc, a promo for a stuntwoman documentary featuring my secret Kiwi girlfriend, Zoe Bell. Can't wait to check that out.

I'll post more about this set after I check out the second disc, but for now, I really recommend picking it up. Yes, it's not the full Grindhouse experience, but if you're a Tarantino fan, this is well worth the dough. It's not QT at his very best, but what it is is Quentin absolutely having a lot of fun with his chosen source material. I watched it at 2 AM last night, and all I wanted to do when I was done was watch it again.

Oh, and if you buy it at Blockbuster, ask if they have any posters available. I got a kick-ass Death Proof poster for four extra bucks when I bought the DVD, and it's not just some cheapie bullshit, either. Great artwork, and what's more, it's printed on thick, durable cardstock.

If you're one of those people who are 'boycotting' this DVD release, let it be known that I think it's a ridiculous stand to take. If this release and Planet Terror don't sell, then you can pretty much say goodbye to any chance of the full Grindhouse experience being released at all. There's a lot worse you could do with 20 bucks, people. This thing is absolutely worth it.


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I was never one to shit on DEATH PROOF before, but IMO the extended cut is vastly superior. The whole story has more time to breathe and come to life, the character of Stuntman Mike is more sharply defined, and I feel as if the film's very nature as part of the slasher genre is better defined. The twenty seconds or so we spend with Stuntman Mike in his car as the girls are coming out of Guero's changes the feel of everything that happens at the Texas Chili Parlor. Seeing him creepily moaning and putting eye drops in while looking at pictures of the girls leaves no doubt: there's something seriously wrong with this guy! Everything he does after that becomes laced with menace, and there's a feeling of building suspense after that where I felt there was none in the theatrical cut. Until he zooms off with Pam (Rose McGowan), he was pretty damn likeable before! When he all of a sudden turns into a murderer, it felt a little bit out of left field. The Morricone music as Arlene spies his car outside of Guero's and the way the camera zooms onto his eye in the Chili Parlor were pretty much the only indications we had that something was awry. He seemed like a weirdo, sure, when he was unable to sneeze on the porch, but there was no palpable sense of threat there. When he asked Arlene if he scared her and she said "Yes," I was sort of like, "Really?"

Over the course of the movie we see three sides of Stuntman Mike: the charmer, the killer, and the crying little baby. In the theatrical cut there wasn't enough time for all of these sides to emerge organically and make the picture of a complete human being. It felt herky-jerky. One second he's the charmer, the next second he's the killer. Then all of a sudden he suffers a total meltdown and becomes the sad specimen of the film's closing minutes. But in the extended cut, we get to see all three of these sides earlier on. It's a much more balanced presentation. Mike's the crying little baby the first time we see him, and the fact that he has pictures of these young girls he's clearly stalking, the killer is there too. Then when he busts out the charmer as he slides his keys over to Pam to offer her a ride, it's like holy shit! He's even more dangerous than we thought. He knows how to get close to his victims! And then there's more of the needy fuckhead in the new scene outside of the convenience store too. It's all a much more satisfying presentation of a great, demented character.

I still don't understand the need for or the point of the references to Tarantino's earlier work sprinkled throughout the movie, and they are still distracting, but not as much as in the theatrical cut because now they're more spaced out! Score again.

At this point, I'm perfectly willing to wait for the GRINDHOUSE experience on DVD. I appreciate what Rodriguez and Tarantino were going for, and props to them for being adventurous and trying something different, but I don't think I can say it was an unqualified artistic success. I think another part of the reason I liked DEATH PROOF on DVD was that I could appreciate it on its own terms, instead of as part of this larger statement. I wasn't expecting a complete blood 'n' guts exploitation flick a la PLANET TERROR or even KILL BILL VOL. 1 from Tarantino's flick. I understood that the second half of GRINDHOUSE would be a more realistic, meandering movie. And I get that part of the grindhouse experience back in the day was watching two or three extremely different movies back-to-back, but that doesn't mean that it really works on an aesthetic level. I think that the realm of crazy titillation PLANET TERROR brought us to was a bad starting point to be at going in to DEATH PROOF. Freed from the constraints of the experimental construct he'd dreamed up with Robert Rodriguez, Tarantino's movie finds an astonishing life all its own. 9 out of 10!


I have nothing but my support to add to this. I loved every last second of it. Very well crafted and enjoyable flick. The 70's cut scenes which are done so badly actually feel quite natural and really give you a full sense of being a low budget film. I haven't seen the original version but I'm loving this version...I can watch it again and again.
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Postby RaulMonkey on Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:41 pm

papa, you know that "Papa Lazeru" guy in the Talkbacks was tearing DEATH PROOF a new asshole? I thought he was you until I saw you praising it in The Zone.
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:48 pm

RaulMonkey wrote:papa, you know that "Papa Lazeru" guy in the Talkbacks was tearing DEATH PROOF a new asshole? I thought he was you until I saw you praising it in The Zone.


It could still be the same guy.
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Postby RaulMonkey on Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:32 pm

Maybe papa acts like a hater in the TalkBacks because he figures that's just what you're supposed to do there. When in Rome... But I think it's cooler when a Zoner pops up in the TB's with a well thought out, really cogent post, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Grindhouse or how we the fans get screwed over again....

Postby bastard_robo on Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:10 am

Suncoast video is whoring Planet Terror already.. the one by my place has a full size PT poster that I belive is signed... by who.. im not sure...

I might pick up Planet Terror as I thought it was the better part of Grindhouse.
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Postby Zarles on Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:06 am

Not sure if I'll be getting PT or not. I've heard stories of them putting the missing reel back in, for chrissakes. Yeah, let's kill one of the best gags in the whole film for the sake of the dumbasses who didn't understand the film the first time around and won't be buying the DVD in the first fucking place.

DUMB.
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Postby sonnyboo on Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:54 pm

on the PLANET TERROR extras disc, in the 10 MINUTE FILM SCHOOL, RR says there will soon be a dobule disc GRINDHOUSE DVD in the future...
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