His Dark Materials season 2

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His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Peven on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:06 pm

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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Ribbons on Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:46 pm

I can't say whether or not this looks any good because the trailer is very light on plot. The crux of the story involves the "subtle knife" that can cut between worlds, which I believe was shown only once, and new enemies known as specters, which were not shown at all. It's well-shot, at least.

I watched season 1 last year and was disappointed to find that, like the film, they skirted the topic of religion to the best of their abilities (although the Magisterium is more obviously coded as the Church). I get that it's a polarizing issue, but it's going to make adapting book 3, which is about a literal war with heaven, super-awkward.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Peven on Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:36 am

I liked season 1, didn't love it, there were pacing issues for me that made it feel uneven and harder to feel immersed in the world, most weeks I wasn't chomping on the bit for the next episode the way I do for a really engaging series. that may be the fault of the source material, i don't know since I haven't read the books, i have just heard and seen them described by fans.

I'm not so sure the rabid anti-religion slant would be successful for mass market entertainment, no matter how much fans of the book like ZombieZoneSolutions think the world needs to be indoctrinated by it. the issue of organized religion using its power for the "wrong" reasons and abusing it, manipulating the masses, has been covered, more than a few times, and well. it just seems a little juvenile and less than insightful to think that a story about warrior talking polar bears and witches and daemons with such a convoluted complicated plot is an effective way to seriously address the issue. can be a good ol fashioned adventure story, but i just don't see it as any kind of serious thought experiment the way a series like Westworld covers its subject material.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Ribbons on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:32 pm

Peven wrote:I'm not so sure the rabid anti-religion slant would be successful for mass market entertainment, no matter how much fans of the book like ZombieZoneSolutions think the world needs to be indoctrinated by it. the issue of organized religion using its power for the "wrong" reasons and abusing it, manipulating the masses, has been covered, more than a few times, and well. it just seems a little juvenile and less than insightful to think that a story about warrior talking polar bears and witches and daemons with such a convoluted complicated plot is an effective way to seriously address the issue.


From what I understand, Phillip Pullman was inspired to write these books as a response of sorts to The Chronicles of Narnia. Just as that series is an allegory for Christianity under the drapings of children's fantasy, His Dark Materials uses metaphor to advocate for a kind of spirituality divorced from organized religion. I would hope that nobody expects them to address the issue in a comprehensive, academic way.

I want to be clear, my problems with these adaptations are not because I have a personal vendetta that I want to see carried out like ZZS seemed to. I have no vested interest in whatever god people choose to pray to. But like I think I said in the thread for the movie, it's impossible to fundamentally change what this story is about. You can put it off for so long, but it's ultimately unavoidable; it's baked into what this series is. It's tempting to ignore the references to Christianity in the first two books because there's a convoluted fantasy plot happening around them, but waiting until the very last moment -- when the characters are suddenly flying to heaven and murdering angels -- is only going to confuse people and harm the integrity of the show.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby so sorry on Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:29 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:I'm not so sure the rabid anti-religion slant would be successful for mass market entertainment, no matter how much fans of the book like ZombieZoneSolutions think the world needs to be indoctrinated by it. the issue of organized religion using its power for the "wrong" reasons and abusing it, manipulating the masses, has been covered, more than a few times, and well. it just seems a little juvenile and less than insightful to think that a story about warrior talking polar bears and witches and daemons with such a convoluted complicated plot is an effective way to seriously address the issue.


From what I understand, Phillip Pullman was inspired to write these books as a response of sorts to The Chronicles of Narnia. Just as that series is an allegory for Christianity under the drapings of children's fantasy, His Dark Materials uses metaphor to advocate for a kind of spirituality divorced from organized religion. I would hope that nobody expects them to address the issue in a comprehensive, academic way.

I want to be clear, my problems with these adaptations are not because I have a personal vendetta that I want to see carried out like ZZS seemed to. I have no vested interest in whatever god people choose to pray to. But like I think I said in the thread for the movie, it's impossible to fundamentally change what this story is about. You can put it off for so long, but it's ultimately unavoidable; it's baked into what this series is. It's tempting to ignore the references to Christianity in the first two books because there's a convoluted fantasy plot happening around them, but waiting until the very last moment -- when the characters are suddenly flying to heaven and murdering angels -- is only going to confuse people and harm the integrity of the show.



I read the series maybe ten years ago or so (my review is somewhere buried here in the Zone), and quite frankly I disliked it quite a bit. So I haven't watched any of the adaptations (I don't think I watched the Nicole Kidman version). But you are spot on: knowing the basic outline of the book and how important (tearing down) Christianity is to plot, how can you possible have any investment in watching it, knowing they will fall short on what the real story was about?

Then again, I loved the GoT series like a fly loves shit, and knew all along as the series went on that the quality was going to suffer, and still watched. So what the hell do I know. GIANT FIGHTING POLAR BEARS YEA!!!!!!!
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Peven on Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:45 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:I'm not so sure the rabid anti-religion slant would be successful for mass market entertainment, no matter how much fans of the book like ZombieZoneSolutions think the world needs to be indoctrinated by it. the issue of organized religion using its power for the "wrong" reasons and abusing it, manipulating the masses, has been covered, more than a few times, and well. it just seems a little juvenile and less than insightful to think that a story about warrior talking polar bears and witches and daemons with such a convoluted complicated plot is an effective way to seriously address the issue.


From what I understand, Phillip Pullman was inspired to write these books as a response of sorts to The Chronicles of Narnia. Just as that series is an allegory for Christianity under the drapings of children's fantasy, His Dark Materials uses metaphor to advocate for a kind of spirituality divorced from organized religion. I would hope that nobody expects them to address the issue in a comprehensive, academic way.


funny, because i swear I was THIS close to saying that if Pullman wanted an example of an effective fantasy allegory then look to Narnia. There it is almost parochial how simplistic and clear who and what in the story represents who and what in a Christian context. if i wanted to be snarky I would say that Pullman displays the self-important sense of superiority typical of some atheists, too many if you ask me, by creating an overly complicated story to try to show how clever he is, not to really enlighten or convey an ideal to help others see truth.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:12 pm

Peven wrote:
Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:I'm not so sure the rabid anti-religion slant would be successful for mass market entertainment, no matter how much fans of the book like ZombieZoneSolutions think the world needs to be indoctrinated by it. the issue of organized religion using its power for the "wrong" reasons and abusing it, manipulating the masses, has been covered, more than a few times, and well. it just seems a little juvenile and less than insightful to think that a story about warrior talking polar bears and witches and daemons with such a convoluted complicated plot is an effective way to seriously address the issue.


From what I understand, Phillip Pullman was inspired to write these books as a response of sorts to The Chronicles of Narnia. Just as that series is an allegory for Christianity under the drapings of children's fantasy, His Dark Materials uses metaphor to advocate for a kind of spirituality divorced from organized religion. I would hope that nobody expects them to address the issue in a comprehensive, academic way.


funny, because i swear I was THIS close to saying that if Pullman wanted an example of an effective fantasy allegory then look to Narnia. There it is almost parochial how simplistic and clear who and what in the story represents who and what in a Christian context. if i wanted to be snarky I would say that Pullman displays the self-important sense of superiority typical of some atheists, too many if you ask me, by creating an overly complicated story to try to show how clever he is, not to really enlighten or convey an ideal to help others see truth.


maybe you should try reading the books before passing judgment on them.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Ribbons on Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 am

The season premiere of His Dark Materials aired on HBO this Monday. It'll probably be a few more weeks before I check in with the show, but fingers crossed that they've more faithfully incorporated elements from the second book.
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Re: His Dark Materials season 2

Postby Peven on Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:39 pm

Ribbons wrote:The season premiere of His Dark Materials aired on HBO this Monday. It'll probably be a few more weeks before I check in with the show, but fingers crossed that they've more faithfully incorporated elements from the second book.


it feels more openly preachy and anti-religion with some of the monologues by Lyra and others just from the first episode. I am hoping the trend doesn't continue....
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