LOST SEASON 2 (SPOILERS)

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Postby Chilli on Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:03 pm

hahaha.

Ecko: Let that be a lesson, bitch!
Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:12 pm

ah the classics.

but you know if they recast "LOST" with the "Saved by the Bell" characters, you know that screech would totally be hurley.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:13 pm

I love how the topic "We know what the numbers mean" so quickly turned into Saved By The Bell - The Lost Years
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Postby Flumm on Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:15 pm

Well in both cases, inexplicable things seem to happen - Hawaiin style. Quite possibly due to paranormal circumstances. Crashing planes, smoke monsters, Zack bagging Kelly.

It was inevitable really.
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Postby Chilli on Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:58 pm

Earthquakes... shitty robots... the same set used OVER and OVER again.

Saved By The Lost'd rock.
Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:02 pm

Ok...I've let this lie long enough...but I gotta know. Chilli, what the fuck is going on in your sig? It looks like Jude Law is being eaten/defecated by a Clive Owenasaurus.....is that even close?
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Postby Chilli on Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:04 pm

Jude Law's being eaten by O-Rex... an Owensaurus Rex to be precise.

Spot on!
Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:10 pm

Chilli wrote:Jude Law's being eaten by O-Rex... an Owensaurus Rex to be precise.

Spot on!


I'm frightened that my brain made correct sense of that image.
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Postby John-Locke on Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:13 pm

http://www.apollocandy.com/

You can even recieve a free Apollo candy bar if you can get to where they are giving them away (NYC, Seattle or Forbidden Planet in the UK).

If you do get one I wouldn't eat it, I bet they will be collectors items one day.
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Postby Pudie on Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:24 pm

Hells yea! They are handing em out at the state fair Friday and I'm going that day! Wooo!
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:50 am

just checking a fact, I watched the season 2 finale last night, very good, very interesting. Just going over what i saw in my head, did I see that Jim Robinson organised/held the boat race Desmond took part in?

Edit - I just answered that myself.

Charles Widmore did indeed sponsor the race Desmond took part in.
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Postby magicmonkey on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:16 am

NEIGHBOURS ! EVERYBODY NEEDS GOOD...
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:28 am

Musings after watching the finale........

So Penelope Widmore is receiving phone calls from a snowbound research station, and knows that Desmond is probably lost within an electromagnetic field - thus the search for an anomaly - This says to me that Charles Widmore is searching for the island, thus the boat race, planned to sail as near to suspected coordinates as possible? Was he hoping to find it this way? Did Penelope use her money to set up the research station or was it something her father has put into operation, she may have paid off the workers to contact her first............

Does Charles Widmore own or work for a company in rivalry with the Hanso Foundation? is this going to be the basis of the outside world stories within Lost?

The EMP has obviously had an effect on Charlie, thus his odd behavior and expressions. Locke, Eko and Desmond have also been ultra dosed, what will the healing effect do to them in such a concentration? ( I think Ribbons asked if electromagnetism can be used for medical purposes earlier in the thread, it can and is used to relieve arthritic pain and symptoms )

Someone also mentioned Sayid, Jinn and Sun being offshore when the EMP fired, this will be significant I think.

I reckon the Others/Hanso foundation do live on the island, but in a very hi-tech research facility and are a cult rather than a company/corporation. Inman was obviously slightly brainwashed into joining them/supporting their cause, after his rant whilst painting the UV map. They believe they are the 'good guys' as Henry stated. I think they might be researching the healing properties of the electromagnetic anomaly, in relation to saving/changing the human race in preparation for what they believe is going to happen on earth, in the future ( thus the cult status )

Walt and Michael will be back, for sure. But the remark of what they got in return for Walt from Henry is very interesting. WTF do they want with Jack, Kate & Sawyer? I have a feeling that The Others/Hanso might also be researching luck, in an Intacto kind of way and the next step in human evolution, thus their interest in the obviously not normal Walt.

I'm getting carried away, that's what I thought of last nights episode anyway.
Last edited by doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:40 am

Sounds ridiculously overcomplicated.
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:42 am

It is, but it's good!
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Postby Flumm on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:02 am

Ah, interesting thoughts, dog.

Although, I didn't catch a chunk of last night's first episode, so I think I missed the infamous ginourmo tootsie. :(

I'll have to catch up later, but for the most part, I enoyed it, as usual, lots to fuel the synapses.

Genrally, I was thinking of Locke's transition over both seasons, and overall of the arc that Lock has been given, and I couldn't help but actually find it really kind of interesting where they have taken him. I know Season 1 Locke was one of the main draws of the show's original pull, how he was a personification of that early mystery, an actual face to pin the enigma's on, an enigmatic face at that, but viewed in it's completeness now, from a distance of being able to simply look at him at the beginning, and at the end of each season, from crash to hatch, from being lost to finding, from finding to falling, if not the beat for beat actualisation of it on screen, thematically, I actually really like the elegance of it.

I think of course, it also leaves him with so much room to go to now, the conlfict has been conflicted, and as it appears, in true age old fashion, he's all about those further truths to search for, perhaps with more purpose now than he ever had. I think it works a lot sweeter with 2 full seasons under the belt, and with interesting places to go for a third, I think that's pretty strong work for long term episodic story telling. More importantly for the character, too.

And anyway, with what fans have been crying out for, and with the writers apparently listening to some degree, perhaps there's balance to be found between both seasons, some of that resolouteness of purpose again, but with the questing elelment to push him forwards some, only this time with all teh conflictyness standing behind him to invest us deeper with him...

Also, I did cringe a little bit as the end of episode slow motion thing came dutifully in, only for Charlie, of all people, getting to help give a muted happy handing on things. Claire inparticlar has to have had one of those most intersting set ups out of anyone, yet by a long the most weakly developed, I think. Little of the Charlie/Claire thing has rung true for me. Although I hope your right dog, I hope there is something more happening there than merely bomb frazzledness. Charlie's only saving grace for me at this point, would be further stumbling into darker territory...

Ooh, maybe it was just me, but the end of episode Penelope ( I LOVE YOU PENNEH!!!1) stare into mid-distance, was one of teh most unintentionally funny cliff hangers I can remember.
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:08 am

Do you think Locke is going to be the ultimate faith based believer in season 3. I don't know who he will clash with now though, in the science vs faith themes of the show.
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Postby Flumm on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:25 am

It has to be Ecko still first and foremost I would say, everything that happened surely only strengthens his beliefs... as to what end I'm not sure though. Yet, I could forsee him him turning from aloofness or at least a distance from the rest, and offering a bevevolent hand to help them at a crisis, but all in all, yeah I think Ecko will be old faithfull, so to speak...

And in turn I suppose, Locke will be between Jack and Ecko in that sense, a mixture of the two, with more journey invested than either in a way.

Whether that will cause conflict in terms of science vs faith, it's hard to say. Locke believes the island once again I would presume, if not the motives of the people behind it. Ecko believes pure and simple. And Jack, well I guess Jack has got to come out with his knob intact before we gets in the mix again. It seems like it's an interesting dynamic there in that respect potentially though...

Also, it's been a while, so I forget who mentioned it, (ginger I thinks), but with so many oodles of things happening to various people all at once, I won't be able to help watching to see how the ol' information dispensation rationing goes again. Whether it will take everyone else 10 episodes to learn about fake beards again etc...
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Postby Doc Holliday on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:20 am

...my first reaction to Season 2, now I've seen it in its totality is that come the final analysis it will best remembered for what it paved the way for, rather than what it actually served up.

All the way through I've had that feeling of a show that after Season 1 suddenly had to grow a couple of seasons - and much of Season 2 has been about the writers readjusting - often to the detriment of the shows pace, of character development and of plot resolution.

The team behind the show are a talented bunch - and I am sure by the end of Season 3 I will reaping a lot of the fruits of some of the stuff this season has put down - but here's the thing...Season 1 managed to do all these things and still satisfy in and of itself. It still felt complete.

Season 2 had too many characters for too long - and a bunch of them weren't served well by this at all, ignored for a HUGE chunk of the show - Sun, Jin, Claire, Charlie - their stories seemed to fade to a point of irrelevance for over half the show - meaning that when their one episode did come around, you kinda wished it away so you could go back to the new developments.

Also, there would be episodes like Hurley's 2nd where, apart from a couple of tinytiny moments "Oh fuck! LOOK! Was that Libby whatsherface?" the whole thing seemed redundant. Ah, dear...so thats why the studly kid eats his food. Poor studly kid. Meh.

Again - I'm sure by the end of Season 3 these themes will have been revisited and served better now the writers know the new length all the arcs have to serve - but in Season 1 you got plenty resolution of the individual, whilst if anything having less of a clue about the island, healing factors, black clouds and so on. Season 1 felt complete, even with all the great unanswerables. Season 2 felt cobbled together...a hotch-potch. Unresolved. Fragmented, stretched.

That said, having endured Season 2 I will definitely be catching season 3.

I would hope Charlie gets killed off and fast - they don't seem to know where to take him. He's kicked his habit - oh no! Circumstance has put temptation is his way again! Aha! Now he has had his decision made for him - no more drugs for Charlie! Again! Oh no! More drugs are found! He's kicked it again of his own free will! I llove you! Oh no! Get away from my baby! I love you!

Just annoying it is. In episode 22 he seemed to redeem himself, chucking his drugs into the sea and being nice to people again...then on a whim he's bad, again, but without any precipitating event - be consistent for gods sake.

He should form a new band and call it "Plot Device".

Be interesting to see how Michael factors back into things - conventional wisdom demands he saves someone's life whilst sacrificing his own as a means of atoning for his murdering ways - but then that leaves Walt an orphan so will they do that? I still think "Yes". I also think they've done something to Walt...turned him in a way like they turned Michael - he'll still be sending them messages - perhaps by that astral projection trick he seems to have going for him.

Perhaps Michael won't come back into it until the second half of Season 3 - they should learn from Season 2 that if we're going to see more of new characters (and I dearly want to see more of Henry Gale and Tom Fakebeard) then some other characters need to make way first. Goodbye Michael and Walt then.

The thing that intrigues me most is this unexplained division between "Good" and "Bad" people on the island. What tricks does Sawyer have? How can his background make him good whilst the likes of Sun are to be considered bad? He does seem to be able to channel the dead given his experience with Kate's step-dad and that wild boar that hassled him in season 1. Hurley has his numbers...Jack heals people that he shouldn't be able to (ex-wife) though its a shame nobody told Boone that before choosing death. Oh and Jack sees dead people as long they're his Dad. Kate seems to have a mild connection to the numbers and the ability to frustrate carefully laid plans by getting caught hostage.

But what makes the others "bad"? Hopefully Season 3 has the answers...
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:37 am

Just a note on dog's question about Widmore.
In the ep when Sun finds out she's pregnant the pregnancy test has a dharma logo but it's also got Widmore on it. I think they are working in conjunction or at least were. I'm also very certain that Penny is definitely not working with her father and that he's probably responsible for desmond being trapped there.
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:46 am

Ah, I missed the pregnancy test ref, thanks Tony, you geek. :D

What about the foot and the bird? Any ideas?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:50 am

I don't think the faith/science dichotomy will be so important in the next season. I mean, Locke was always "Mr Faith", then he lost his faith, and now he has refound it - only problem is, the thing which made him have faith again was an enormous electromagnetic pulse, which apparently has to be discharged at 108 minute intervals. It doesn't really get more scientific than that, yeah? So the science and the faith have now been shown to be inextricably linked.

What I AM hoping to see, is more of Locke the hunter, the survivalist, the guy who catches boars. By all accounts, that's what we're gonna get in Season 3, so I'm happy about that. Apparently, the polar bears are coming back too, which I think is a good thing! And the producers have categorically stated that the monster isn't nanobots, so I hope we get some more info about that.

Dog - I like the idea that Charles Widmore is actually the one searching for the island - a very intuitive leap of logic, but it may well turn out to be true. The way I read that situation, they were merely emphasising Penny's comment, which was something like "you can find anyone/do anything if you have enough money" - or words to that effect. So Penny followed Desmond's progress in the race, right up to the point he went missing. She did some investigation, found that there is weird electromagnetic activity in the region where Des was last seen, and paid a couple of scientists to hang out at the South Pole with some sort of EMP-sensing equipment, checking for further anomalies. I liked the way one of them said "we missed it again" - were they perhaps referring to the EMP from when the plane crashed, or something else entirely? Cool ending, anyway.

I'm not sure I quite get you here though:

thedoglippedone wrote:I reckon the Others/Hanso foundation do live on the island, but in a very hi-tech research facility and are a cult rather than a company/corporation. Inman was obviously slightly brainwashed into joining them/supporting their cause, after his rant whilst painting the UV map. They believe they are the 'good guys' as Henry stated. I think they might be researching the healing properties of the electromagnetic anomaly, in relation to saving/changing the human race in preparation for what they believe is going to happen on earth, in the future ( thus the cult status )


As far as I'm aware, the Others are not the Hanso Foundation, and vice-versa. Des referred to them as "the hostiles", remember? That's a phrase he learnt off Inman, who is so far the only character who pretty much definitely DID work for the HF. I didnt' get the impression that he'd been brainwashed though - he seemed pretty dismissive of the HF, to me - while still taking them seriously enough to find himself a replacement before he tried to leave the island.

Perhaps The Others originally did work for the HF, but then formed a breakaway group. Maybe they're from somewhere completely different though. And I do believe that they ARE the "good guys" in one sense or other. I believe that they have no intention of hurting their hostages, just as Henry told Michael.

I'm also not sure I agree that Walt and Michael will be back - they aren't in any of the publicity shots from Season 3, and they don't seem to be in any of the first 6 episodes. Maybe a dramatic reappearance in the season finale, but apart from that I doubt we'll see them next season. I think Henry gave Mike EITHER the coordinates to get out of the "snow globe", OR the coordinates to get to some people who would in turn take Mike back into the "real world"
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:56 am

The actor playing Michael did an interview with EW after season 2. He said that he and Walt were both off the show. The producers told them both they were free to pursue other projects. However, he was just as confused as everyone else when he saw the season finale. He said it was totally obvious in the script that he and Walt completely left the island. But the way it was filmed made it seem open.

But yeah, he's gone.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:06 am

I don't think it's that straightforward, GM. This is from the article I linked to in my last post:

Ausiello wrote:Are Walt and Michael gone forever?
Cuse: Not necessarily. They still remain a part of the overall mythology of Lost. But as to when we will revisit their story, that's not something I can answer. But we will not immediately be getting back to Michael's story.

Malcolm David Kelley will be getting older and taller. That has to be a consideration when you plan his story.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:18 am

Well, this is a newer interview from the one HP gave months ago. I'm sure all the demand for Michael to return has caused them to rethink writing him off. I can't find the article right now, but in it, HP says he argued with Lindeloff about it, but Lindeloff convinced him that it "was cool that someone finally escapes." I'm sure as the show moves more off the island, we'll maybe get a glimpse or two of Michael and Walt. Probably spot them in flashback cameos. But I doubt they're coming back to the island.

And in the end, I think Walt and Michael coming back fall into the same category of Libby's story. It's something they want to do, want to tell, but even they aren't certain if they'll get to it.
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:36 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:Dog - I like the idea that Charles Widmore is actually the one searching for the island - a very intuitive leap of logic, but it may well turn out to be true. The way I read that situation, they were merely emphasising Penny's comment, which was something like "you can find anyone/do anything if you have enough money" - or words to that effect. So Penny followed Desmond's progress in the race, right up to the point he went missing. She did some investigation, found that there is weird electromagnetic activity in the region where Des was last seen, and paid a couple of scientists to hang out at the South Pole with some sort of EMP-sensing equipment, checking for further anomalies. I liked the way one of them said "we missed it again" - were they perhaps referring to the EMP from when the plane crashed, or something else entirely? Cool ending, anyway.


I also took it that the "we missed it again" comment was in relation to Desmond's mini EMP, that crashed the plane.

TITG wrote:I'm not sure I quite get you here though:

thedoglippedone wrote:I reckon the Others/Hanso foundation do live on the island, but in a very hi-tech research facility and are a cult rather than a company/corporation. Inman was obviously slightly brainwashed into joining them/supporting their cause, after his rant whilst painting the UV map. They believe they are the 'good guys' as Henry stated. I think they might be researching the healing properties of the electromagnetic anomaly, in relation to saving/changing the human race in preparation for what they believe is going to happen on earth, in the future ( thus the cult status )


As far as I'm aware, the Others are not the Hanso Foundation, and vice-versa. Des referred to them as "the hostiles", remember? That's a phrase he learnt off Inman, who is so far the only character who pretty much definitely DID work for the HF. I didn't get the impression that he'd been brainwashed though - he seemed pretty dismissive of the HF, to me - while still taking them seriously enough to find himself a replacement before he tried to leave the island.

Perhaps The Others originally did work for the HF, but then formed a breakaway group. Maybe they're from somewhere completely different though. And I do believe that they ARE the "good guys" in one sense or other. I believe that they have no intention of hurting their hostages, just as Henry told Michael.

I'm also not sure I agree that Walt and Michael will be back - they aren't in any of the publicity shots from Season 3, and they don't seem to be in any of the first 6 episodes. Maybe a dramatic reappearance in the season finale, but apart from that I doubt we'll see them next season. I think Henry gave Mike EITHER the coordinates to get out of the "snow globe", OR the coordinates to get to some people who would in turn take Mike back into the "real world"


Thanks for the more thought out intel, TITG, I'm pretty glib when it comes to Lost, this is the first time I have sat back and questioned the big picture. I have just been assuming that the Others are directly involved with the Hanso Foundation, but a breakaway group, as you say is more probable. I just got the impression that Inman was blinded by persuasion and idealism into joining the HF, he said something like " they urged me to join, to come and save the world with them " ( or did I catch that wrong? I will have to watch the episode again ) and then trailed off in a disgruntled manner ( brainwashed was probably the wrong word, you're right! ) I had overlooked the Hostiles ref......

I'm disappointed that Michael and Walt are not coming back ( at the moment anyway ) I assume we will learn what was special about Walt, I just thought he would be directly involved in that reveal. It will hopefully come from The Others then. Thanks for the info guys!
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:27 am

Dog - you were right about Inman's bitter comments about the HF, but in a way that intrigued me even more - like he'd been reluctant to join, but knew that it was a worthy cause or something like that. He mocks the HF's standard sign off "namaste and good luck", yet he obviously wasn't willing to leave the button unmanned. The only contradiction to this is that he asked Des to come with him when he was caught visiting the boat (just before Des killed him).

I'm reading a lot into it though! There's also the matter of the guy who used to be Inman's partner (is it Radzinski?) - Inman claimed the mark on the ceiling was his blood, but for some reason I think this was a lie. He's also the dude who supposedly "made some edits" to the initiation moveis - why did he do that?

GM - I agree: I think it's something they've left open, and you're right that the flashbacks would be the obvious place to have Mike/Walt show up. Although there's obviously still the issue of Walt's impending puberty, which will kind of mess this up for them
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Postby godzillasushi on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:01 am

The Ginger Man wrote:Well, this is a newer interview from the one HP gave months ago. I'm sure all the demand for Michael to return has caused them to rethink writing him off. I can't find the article right now, but in it, HP says he argued with Lindeloff about it, but Lindeloff convinced him that it "was cool that someone finally escapes." I'm sure as the show moves more off the island, we'll maybe get a glimpse or two of Michael and Walt. Probably spot them in flashback cameos. But I doubt they're coming back to the island.

And in the end, I think Walt and Michael coming back fall into the same category of Libby's story. It's something they want to do, want to tell, but even they aren't certain if they'll get to it.


See thats where I would disagree. Im sure theres damand for many of the old cast members to return, but they arent afraid of getting rid of characters. I dont think they would doubt their choice and in the overall picture they really feel free to eliminate anyone they want. I just wonder why they got rid of Shannon....so much fun to look at 8)
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Postby Ribbons on Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:48 pm

See, the thing that frustrates me about Locke is... and I get what you're saying, Flumm, that his arc sounds elegant in theory but not so much in execution, but still... the thing that frustrates me so much about his arc is that his "faith" in the island is never really very well-defined. It never has been. And they push the drama over such an abstract concept to its limits in Season 2.

In its simplest terms, the island gave him the ability to walk (which is reason enough to believe there's something special about it), and then he had a general sense thereafter of everything he stumbled upon there being fortuitous. But that's still sort of vague. What's more:

1) his crisis of faith ought not to detract from the fact that the island gave him the ability to walk. So if he's still upset, I'm thinking it should be more of an existential thing -- the button, the island itself is not his mission, so where does that leave him? -- than a faith thing. But that line is never really drawn or even flirted with, and those feelings are never really articulated.

2) Locke saw the monster, or the smoke thing or whatever it is. He looked right into it. And whatever "it" showed him re-inforced his faith that he was supposed to be there. So what did he see? And why/how does that conflict with whatever's going on in the hatch? Do the producers even remember this took place? .

I also thought that the science/faith debate, which was so important in Season 2, was incredibly annoying for the same reasons. I thought it was ridiculous that Jack could be so skeptical after everything he'd seen, and I thought it was ridiculous that Locke could be so cynical after everything HE'D seen. And what was the point of it all in the long run? To waste time? Hopefully Season 3 doesn't go down this road while trying to define "good" and "bad." I'm kind of annoyed that the show is playing with either/or morality as it is.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:44 pm

thedoglippedone wrote:Does Charles Widmore own or work for a company in rivalry with the Hanso Foundation? is this going to be the basis of the outside world stories within Lost?


They're not competing. The Hanso Foundation and the Widmore Corporation are part of the same parcel.

From the Lost Experience, we sort of learnt that Alvar Hanso was once on the board of Widmore. And I think the WC is a contributor to the HF.
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:48 pm

awesome.

doc, dog, flummo it will be nice to have you guys on board for season 3. much intelligence you posess. your input will enrich all of our enjoyment of the upcoming season.

unless any of you secretly likes that intolerable scumbag jack.
we dont need anymore polishers around here adding to the squad's ranks.
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Postby doglips on Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
thedoglippedone wrote:Does Charles Widmore own or work for a company in rivalry with the Hanso Foundation? is this going to be the basis of the outside world stories within Lost?


They're not competing. The Hanso Foundation and the Widmore Corporation are part of the same parcel.

From the Lost Experience, we sort of learnt that Alvar Hanso was once on the board of Widmore. And I think the WC is a contributor to the HF.


Thanks for the info FG, this is going to be an interesting plot point. Widmore may be involved, but does he know where the island is? Many failed attemts at getting info back, the boat race, the balloon, is he desperate to get to/get intel from the island or is that all coincidence?
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Re: LOST SEASON 2 (SPOILERS)

Postby Ribbons on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:29 am

The totally-not-a-DHARMA video, Falling Skies' "Camp Espheni":

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