ROME

[so sorry]

So my free HBO weekend has come and gone, and I managed to watch episodes 13-21. I’m going to have to find a friend who has HBO to watch the rest of the season… I can’t wait unitl the DVDs come out to find out what happens.

Random (and probably incoherent) thoughts…

I was weary at first about the older Octavian, but I think the current actor is doing a great job. He still portrays young octavian’s guile and intellignence and shortcomings.

Servilia’s suicide was spectacular…

From my limited knowledge of Roman history, I’m pretty sure that Brutus and his ally (forgetting his name at this moment) committed suicide after their armies were defeated. Not sure why they felt the need to change this bit of history.

So basically everyone in Alexandria is a dope fiend?

I’m dying to see the confrontation between Pullo and Vorenus that is eminent. I’m assuming that the defeat of Antony will happen before this season is over (resulting in the famous Cleopatra suicide)… I hope that Vorenus somehow comes out off it unscathed and reunited with his children.

I’m not sure I like the Timon arc. I was waiting for it to weave its way back into the overall story, but it never did. I would have liked to have seen that time used for more main character stuff.

The state of the Vorenus gang in the Aventine. The reason Vorenus was able to gain control and keep it was because the rest of the gangs feared him and believed he was utterly ruthless. So he leaves for Egypt, and leaves Pullo in charge. Fair enough, Pullo is a born killer, and showed his worth in the big gang fight. So we are to presume that he has ruled over the Aventine gangs for 3-4 years of relative peace. Now, in the middle off a starving mob, he must leave with Octavian. So he puts his crippled second in command in charge… this is where they will lose it for me: the other gangs would surely pounce on this dude and destroy the Vorenus mob once and for all. Ultimately when Pullo or Vorenus returned they would be faced with no friends and family left, right?

[TheBaxter]

cleopatra is hot

[so sorry]

cleopatra is hot

meh.

I love the hips, but the boy-hair is a turnoff.

While we're on the subject... I noticed that this season, Atia's sex scenes involve no nudity what so ever. And she has some nice ta-tas...

[TheBaxter]

cleopatra is hot

meh.

I love the hips, but the boy-hair is a turnoff.

While we're on the subject... I noticed that this season, Atia's sex scenes involve no nudity what so ever. And she has some nice ta-tas...

yeah, i've noticed that too, to my disappointment. i guess she got a no-nudity clause this season or something.

at least octavian's new wife is pretty hot.

[Fievel]

Only one more episode!

I will say again, I do love how they're doing their best to tie up as many ends as possible these last few episodes. Years go by between episodes, and it's not a problem whatsoever. Oh, how I did love Pullo killing that bitch that killed his wife & child. She had it coming. I felt bad enough for him that they were dead and he was shagging the wench that killed them.
Vorenus - what a loyal putz. At least he didn't turn in whats-his-name and his wife when they fled Alexandria.

So bring on the final episode HBO. Let us put this fantastic show to rest.


And then comes the final 9 of Sopranos. Oh what a cruel year this is becoming.

[so sorry]

Only one more episode! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I will say again, I do love how they're doing their best to tie up as many ends as possible these last few episodes. Years go by between episodes, and it's not a problem whatsoever. Oh, how I did love Pullo killing that bitch that killed his wife & child. She had it coming. I felt bad enough for him that they were dead and he was shagging the wench that killed them.
Vorenus - what a loyal putz. At least he didn't turn in whats-his-name and his wife when they fled Alexandria.

So bring on the final episode HBO. Let us put this fantastic show to rest.


And then comes the final 9 of Sopranos. Oh what a cruel year this is becoming.

wait, there's only one episode left? SHIT!

That's going to be a jam packed episode... they can't end the series without anthony and Cleopatra's suicides, plus Vorenus and Pullo's reunion... and this is it for the series, correct?

[Fievel]

and this is it for the series, correct?

Yup. The show was ridiculously expensive to film, so they capped it at the end of Season 2.

I have no idea how it has been doing ratings-wise, but I think the overall storylines have been much more solid this second season than the first. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Caesar story - a LOT. But the rest of the Season One soap opera stories just weren't that great. Obviously a lot of those stories set up what was to come here in Season Two, so I understand.

[stereosforgeeks]

Only one more episode!

I will say again, I do love how they're doing their best to tie up as many ends as possible these last few episodes. Years go by between episodes, and it's not a problem whatsoever. Oh, how I did love Pullo killing that bitch that killed his wife & child. She had it coming. I felt bad enough for him that they were dead and he was shagging the wench that killed them.
Vorenus - what a loyal putz. At least he didn't turn in whats-his-name and his wife when they fled Alexandria.

So bring on the final episode HBO. Let us put this fantastic show to rest.


And then comes the final 9 of Sopranos. Oh what a cruel year this is becoming.

wait, there's only one episode left? SHIT!

That's going to be a jam packed episode... they can't end the series without anthony and Cleopatra's suicides, plus Vorenus and Pullo's reunion... and this is it for the series, correct?

That's pretty much what Im expecting and the end of the war with Antony.

[Evil Hobbit]

That was an AMAZING episode. Definately one of the best. So sad it's over soon. But Fievel, when did Pullo kill the bitch? Did I miss something? She was fighting along his side right.

[Fievel]

That was an AMAZING episode. Definately one of the best. So sad it's over soon. But Fievel, when did Pullo kill the bitch? Did I miss something? She was fighting along his side right.

Ummm... the episode that just aired last night (3/18/07 HBO 9:00pm Eastern Time, USA).
Sorry if that was a trans-continental spoiler.

[Evil Hobbit]

hmmm, I don't follow the dutch broadcasts, thats a mess, but I download torrents according to american broadcast. Latest episode was Rome.S02E08.HDTV.XviD-LOL right?

edit: just did some tv.com research and episode 9 should also be available :O Off to isohunt!

[Evil Hobbit]

Sweet, great episode. Mighty frenzy sex scene from Octavian. Pullo killing the bitch was realy satisfying. What a great actor. Also loved how Vorenus threw the ball hard on little Anthony.

[so sorry]

Sweet, great episode. Mighty frenzy sex scene from Octavian. :shock: Pullo killing the bitch was realy satisfying. What a great actor. Also loved how Vorenus threw the ball hard on little Anthony.

Yeah, I like how Vorenus seems to be the only Roman keeping his head clear in Alexandria.

PS that's not Mark Antony's son he was playing ball with and talking to... that's Cesarion, Julius Cesar's kid (SPOILER:when Octavian ultimately destroys Antony and reclaims Egypt, he executes Cesarion...)

[Wolfpack]

I believe that the next episode, which is to be the final episode, will be 90 minutes long.

[Evil Hobbit]

tx for the head up so sorry. 90 minutes rome? Damn good news 8)

[TheBaxter]

Sweet, great episode. Mighty frenzy sex scene from Octavian. Pullo killing the bitch was realy satisfying. What a great actor. Also loved how Vorenus threw the ball hard on little Anthony.

Yeah, I like how Vorenus seems to be the only Roman keeping his head clear in Alexandria.

PS that's not Mark Antony's son he was playing ball with and talking to... that's Cesarion, Julius Cesar's kid (SPOILER:when Octavian ultimately destroys Antony and reclaims Egypt, he executes Cesarion...)

although, according to the tv show's "history", it's actually Pullo's kid.

[Fievel]

although, according to the tv show's "history", it's actually Pullo's kid.

huh?
When did Pullo shag Cleopatra? I don't remember that.

[so sorry]

although, according to the tv show's "history", it's actually Pullo's kid.

:shock: huh?
When did Pullo shag Cleopatra? I don't remember that.

after Pullo and Vorenus rescue Cleopatra from her assassins, she demands that Vorenus fuck her. He refuses ('natch), and Pullo steps up to the plate.

Its "implied" that Cesareon is Pullo's, not Julius Cesaer's...

[TheBaxter]

vorenus and pullo both know it too. when vorenus is telling caesarion about his father, it's pullo he's talking about, not caesar. that's why he mentioned his father having a voracious appetite, which the boy says is the opposite of what everyone says about caesar. also, when octavian says that the boy will have to be killed, you can see it on pullo's face, 'cos he knows he's really talking about his son. i wonder if the set up with pullo's wife and unborn child dying was a set up for his eventual reunion with his first son.

[Fievel]

Eegads! I had completely forgotten about all of that!!
That does throw a lot more weight into this final episode.... not that there wasn't enough on the plate as it was!

[so sorry]

when vorenus is telling caesarion about his father, it's pullo he's talking about, not caesar.

well color me stupid for not picking up on that!

when octavian says that the boy will have to be killed, you can see it on pullo's face, 'cos he knows he's really talking about his son. i wonder if the set up with pullo's wife and unborn child dying was a set up for his eventual reunion with his first son.

Hmmm, how can they resolve this situation, eh? Can Pullo kill a boy he believes to be his own son? Would Vorenus allow him to do it, especially considering all he went thru with his own family problems?

As the Rome Turns...

[Evil Hobbit]

How obvious it is Pullo's, well now that you stated it :D:D Interesting, very interesting. Can't wait for next weeks episode. The Vorenus and Pullo relationship is some of the most interesting once I've seen on film so far. Just great casting, great chemestry. The two are just great. Love it.

[Wolfpack]

tx for the head up so sorry. 90 minutes rome? Damn good news 8)

You're welcome! But the name is Wolfpack.

[Evil Hobbit]

Aye, but the heads up where directed at so sorry for telling the child vorenus was playing with was the child of ceaser, which turned out to be wrong for it was pullo's. But ty to mate

[Wolfpack]

Hmmm. I just saw in another TV guide that it would be 75 minutes. Wonder which one's right? Still, in both cases it's longer than we're used to.

[Fievel]

My satellite menu says 65 minutes and that Entourage starts at 10:05.

10 hours until the epic ends! Oh the humanity!!!

[Wolfpack]

Hey, don't fret. We're getting A Song of Fire and Ice next year. The future looks good.

[John-Locke]

Who do you all think is going to die?

Pullo, Vorenus, will they both kill each other or will they both live?

I think that if one of them does die it will be at the hands of the other which is why I see a fitting end for them being that they kill each other and have one last final laugh about something as they lay dying on the floor.

[Fievel]

Hey, don't fret. We're getting A Song of Fire and Ice next year. The future looks good.

But after losing Rome AND Sopranos, that's like being offered breakfast after being anally raped. Which reminds me, I miss Oz too!

Who's going to die? Cleopatra and Antony are good bets, but other than that I have no idea. I'll freely admit that I'm "flying blind on a rocket cycle" when it comes to the specifics of this part of history, so I guess I'm going into it completely spoiler-free in that aspect.

[Fievel]

Wow.
[quote="Herc"]HBO slaps together an improbable number of great hours, [b]but I rank “Romeâ€

[Lord Voldemoo]

[quote="Fievel"]Wow.
[quote="Herc"]HBO slaps together an improbable number of great hours, [b]but I rank “Romeâ€

[John-Locke]

[quote="Fievel"]Wow.
[quote="Herc"]HBO slaps together an improbable number of great hours, [b]but I rank “Romeâ€

[so sorry]

...out like a lamb.

I can't help but be disappointed with the end of Rome.

The biggest battle (at that time) in naval history reduced to opening credits background.

the Triumph of Cesar Augustus, ending years of civil war and ushering in Pax Romana, reduced to close up scenes of a few dozen people (and a horse cart with Anthony and Cleopatra's effigies that got 2 seconds of screen time).

But it wasn't just the obvious budget shortcomings that bothered me... I have major issues with the writing too:

Atia, portrayed by this show as a major power player, was given a scant 5 minutes tacked on at the end of the episode.

Vorenus was mortally wounded, but lives a month to see his children, only to die the day he returns?

Pullo rescuing his son was really a bit obvious, and how he could ever raise that spoiled brat in Rome without being found out is beyond me.


What I just witnessed was a rushed ending to a spectacular show that I wish had another couple of episodes to really flesh out the end of Antony and Cleopatra and the triumph of Augustus.

Rome was a show that deserved more than it got, and I'm glad I stumbled upon it, but man, I wish its ending was as honorable as Antony's.

[Keepcoolbutcare]

can a tv show (or any work of art for that matter) have it both ways?

can it revel in the bitchy/catty/Freudian mother-dominating-complex excesses of women, yet still make poignant socio-historical commentary about the society that spawned them?

Look, no matter how you view it, the women are truly what made this psycho-drama (one wonders how disgustingly vile Anthony's mother would've been portrayed).

Rome, tantalizingly, came pretty damn close to pulling it off though. SS is correct in lamenting a mere 10episode season, but I would've like to have seen more of, say, Octavia and Agrippa (tho' to be honest, that mook who played Agrippa (or maybe the characterization) was dead weight), of just what made Gaia the bitch-whore she was.

if anything, the show goes to show just how corrosive keeping women subjugated can be for a society. That it goes on to prove this point by bludgeoning us over the head with it, then asking us to forgive the same glorious excess with subtle denouements speaks of both the strength and weakness of the show as a whole.

but good Jupiter, I can forgive a lot when Pullo chomps off a man's tongue. Someone's gotta invent a time machine so he and Omar Little can have the greatest team up ever.

[Adam Balm]

...out like a lamb.

I can't help but be disappointed with the end of Rome.

The biggest battle (at that time) in naval history reduced to opening credits background.

the Triumph of Cesar Augustus, ending years of civil war and ushering in Pax Romana, reduced to close up scenes of a few dozen people (and a horse cart with Anthony and Cleopatra's effigies that got 2 seconds of screen time).

But it wasn't just the obvious budget shortcomings that bothered me... I have major issues with the writing too:

Atia, portrayed by this show as a major power player, was given a scant 5 minutes tacked on at the end of the episode.

Vorenus was mortally wounded, but lives a month to see his children, only to die the day he returns?

Pullo rescuing his son was really a bit obvious, and how he could ever raise that spoiled brat in Rome without being found out is beyond me.


What I just witnessed was a rushed ending to a spectacular show that I wish had another couple of episodes to really flesh out the end of Antony and Cleopatra and the triumph of Augustus.

Rome was a show that deserved more than it got, and I'm glad I stumbled upon it, but man, I wish its ending was as honorable as Antony's.

Agreed. I was prepared to write my own multi-paragraph review tonight but you pretty much said it all.

The major problem with Rome was always pacing. It would drag out for two or three episodes then lurch ahead without any warning. Although for the most part it was the first season dragging and the second season lurching. And yeah, one of the most frustrating things was its way of skipping over the greatest battles. And I don't buy the budget constraints excuse. The freaking history channel has got their CG battles almost up to photo-realistic on some shows. If they can do it, HBO can do it. In the half dozen great epic battles of this period in the Roman civil war, we got one. One. The battle of Philippi. That's it. Uggghhh.

[so sorry]

SS is correct in lamenting a mere 10 episode season, but I would've like to have seen more of, say, Octavia and Agrippa (tho' to be honest, that mook who played Agrippa (or maybe the characterization) was dead weight), of just what made Gaia the bitch-whore she was.

there are so many things that were passed over that I would have loved to seen fleshed out.

Agrippa and Maecenas needed some back story. They just showed up with the new Octavian, and we got no real explaination on who they were or what their motivations were for their actions (I bet that many viewers were wondering why they were so fucking young too).

Octavian's wife was apparently a real bitch... she could have been the perfect 'replacement' for Servillia as Atia's new foe (which we get a brief glimpse at at the end of last night's ep).

When last we saw the Aventine, food was being rationed, people were on the verge of starvation. Could Vorenus' third man in charge keep the peace?

It also bothered me when they changed known history. For example, Brutus and Cassius committed suicide, they didn't die bravely on the battlefield. It would have made for a more compelling moment if Brutus, after his role in Ceaser's murder and his "rebirth" in the far east, ultimately had to kill himself to retain his honour.

Its one thing to bend the truth for sake of a plot. Pollo and Vorenus had a hand in some of the biggest moments in history according to this show, but its forgivable because the outcome of their actions didn't necessarily change the history books per se.


Ultimately, I still loved this show... we can all agree that it could have been so much more...

[Lord Voldemoo]

ummm, I said in CDT that I'd write more about the Rome finale, but you guys have summed up my thoughts very well...so....uhhhh....shitty weather we're having, huh?

At the end of the day it was just too rushed, too sliced and diced. The characters, not the battles, were always the driving force behind the story. The battles are simply a backdrop. That said, as noted above, taking 3 eps to build up to a monumental showdown and then skipping past the battle entirely is jarring.

Loved the season, loved the show. With some more love and time it could have been one of the great series in television history, I think. As it was, it was still fantastic.

[John-Locke]

You guys are crazy, it was a brilliant ending to a brilliant show, maybe it's because I don't know the history very well but it worked for me. As for them not showing the battles? Well they get boring pretty quickly if you ask me. It's more of a character piece showing how the decisions of the few have far reaching consequences. Anthony & Cleopatras deaths were expertly handled, Vorenus and Pullos fates felt fitting and Atia's 5 minutes at the end were pure gold even though she didn't say much.

I do wonder what happened to Poscia and Timon though.

[Lord Voldemoo]

Atia was great at the end.

I dunno, it still felt rushed to me, but maybe it's because I'm disappointed that they had 3 seasons worth of material crushed into 10 eps. They did an amazing job, considering that fact, I just wish they had had more time to work with.

[Adam Balm]

Who has said that the battles are more important than the character development? C'mon, that's a bit of a 'magician's choice'. It's not one or the other. These are events that these characters live through. Where Antony is defeated for the first time by Octavian in Gaul, or the battle of Actium where Antony turns his back on his army to save Cleopatra. These are turning points, these are important character moments that we never got. It comes at the expense of character not to see them go through this things but instead have a little Cliff's notes exposition afterwards. The entire reason some of us feel cheated was because there was a lot of character investment leading up to these moments that we never saw.

It's kind of like if we got Wrath of Khan and we just skipped over the whole Reliant vs. Enterprise, and just cut to Spock's funeral.

Kirk: Boy Scotty, it sure was great that Spock saved the ship during the fight with Khan, where our warp core was damaged.

Scotty: Aye.

Kirk: What was it he said, something like "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one?"

Scotty: Aye.

Too often, that's what we got with Rome, and IMHO the story suffered because of it.

[Lord Voldemoo]

or the battle of Actium where Antony turns his back on his army to save Cleopatra.

This, in particular, I would have loved to have seen in the show.

[so sorry]

You guys are crazy, it was a brilliant ending to a brilliant show, maybe it's because I don't know the history very well but it worked for me. As for them not showing the battles? Well they get boring pretty quickly if you ask me. It's more of a character piece showing how the decisions of the few have far reaching consequences. Anthony & Cleopatras deaths were expertly handled, Vorenus and Pullos fates felt fitting and Atia's 5 minutes at the end were pure gold even though she didn't say much.

I do wonder what happened to Poscia and Timon though.

The battles that these Romans waged defined who they were both politically and personally, so I would think that they may have been important to show. I don't think any of us were suggesting LOTR-epic sized battles, but for fuke's sake on Rome the battles happened in between episodes...

Atia's 5 minutes at the end were pure gold, but she (and the actress) deserved much more than that.

And since you brought up Timon... what a wasted character he turned out to be. Such an important second-tier character, yet he got pushed to the side for a silly "jew in rome" sub story that literally went nowhere.


I would encourage you Rome fans to add Rome Season 1 to your net flick cue. That way you can watch each episode with the "All Roads Lead to Rome" feature that I mentioned a few pages ago. It answers almost every question you probalby had sitting there watching the show. Every roman god that was referenced was explained, every piece of history was outlined as it happened (which satisfied me greatly), and it was all done in a non-obtrusive way.

Ultimately I will be anxiously awaiting Season 2 on DVD, but I will always wonder at how much greater this show could have been...

[Fievel]

I knew/know nothing of this period of history other than a couple of names here and there. My interest in this show has always been purely entertainment.

Having said that, I thought the ending was great. The entire season jumped massive periods of time here and there, so I found no problem in that. They knew they had limited space in which to tell their stories, and I think they handled that well. The death of Vorenus after a month was ridiculous, but the reconciliation between he and his daughter was great.
The absolute best part of the whole episode was the triumphant "return" of Atia. Watching her give Octavian's wife an earful while Octavia just stood there smiling.... awesome.

Now the battles? This show was never about the physical battles. This show was always about the verbal battles, the political battles, the philosophical battles. So much to the point that the major battle they showed this season almost seemed out of place with the series' method of storytelling - but it set up the death of Brutus, so I get that.

My only problem with that entire episode was the very ending. When Pullo said to Caasarion that they needed to talk about his father, I almost expected Pullo to turn around, look into the camera, and wink. I found it THAT cheesy. But that scene was not enough to dampen my thoughts on the episode, much less the series.

Rome is dead.
Long live Rome.

[Adam Balm]

I'm curious. For those folks out there (myself included) who found the ending lacking, what do you think would've been a more fitting ending?

[TheBaxter]

i enjoyed the ending. would i have liked to see more battles and blood? fuck yeah, but i saw 300 only a few weeks ago so i'm pretty sated when it comes to big bloody brawls in the ancient world.

what i liked most was seeing pullo and vorenus together again, and seeing how their friendship had really blossomed over the show. going back to the very beginning, these guys couldn't be more different, one a noble officer, one a simple soldier, but i definitely felt like i was going to miss them now that the show is done. i think the end was fitting for both of them. ultimately it was their story that stuck with me, not all the historical stuff which was spotty at best.

[Lord Voldemoo]

I'm curious. For those folks out there (myself included) who found the ending lacking, what do you think would've been a more fitting ending?

Y'know, it's not really that I felt the ending was wrong, it was just rushed and choppy (aside from the "let's talk about your father" line which I agree was pretty cheesy).

For me a more fitting ending would have been to finish the season with the battle between Octavian and Antony looming and then do another 6 eps or so for one more "season" to satisfyingly finish the story. Alas, that was not in the cards...

[Keepcoolbutcare]

i dunno how ya'll can complain about a finale that had...

"gyppo cunny".

"Medusa on the rag."

a wreath carrier.

the poignant and moving death scene of Mark Anthony.

Really, all the flaws any of ya'll have pointed out have plagued the show throughout its run, why would the last episode be any different?

[Quiet Storm]

I loved how Anthony covered himself, just like Ceaser did before dying, when he was told that Cleo killed herself. God damn that Brit can act! Marc Anthony, Al Sweargen, and Omar from the Wire, are the best charactors in the history of HBO. They should all star in a time traveling opus, cocksuckers would get fed to pigs, flowerpots would get pissed in, and some unlucky Struggling Background Artist would get ass invaded.

[Lady Sheridan]

I unexpectedly received the next batch of Rome episodes--I'm still in season 1, only through episode 5. I'm so addicted but the thesis prevents me from watching them all at once. Random observations follow...

Cieran Hinds impresses me as always. I love what a cold Caesar he is--the man was all about his public image, not a whiff of scandal could ever sully him and his reaction to the naughty cartoons...priceless. But damn, he beats on his women, doesn't he?

I didn't understand Atia's jealousy over the whole affair...does this get explained? Was she after her uncle or was it just some petty jealousy? It's not like she's doing so badly in the bedroom...

Speaking of which, damn, Mark Antony full frontal! Thanks, HBO! Well, to be fair, it's not that attractive to see but I like how everyone is naked and sleazy in this show.

Except for Atia and Calphurnia, the women's costumes aren't so hot. Why are Octavia and Servilia slogging around in badly fitted taupe and lavender?

[Lord Voldemoo]

So glad you're watching this, it's addictive LS.

On Atia: I think her jealousy is a combination of things, she wants to be the primary woman in Caesar's life, as she knows where the power is; she dislikes Servilla in general as she sees her as a rival in society, etc.; and, finally, Atia's just kind of a bitch.

The Atia-Servilla dynamic will continue to progress for some time, don't worry.