THE SOPRANOS

The greatest TV in history is being made right now. The worst TV in history is being made right now.

Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:10 pm

Nikki Finke has an interesting little write up of the whole controversy.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/thats-what-we-were-waiting-for-angry-fans-crash-hbo-website/
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Re: 'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:12 pm

so sorry wrote:
wharto wrote:Why do so many people seem to demand to have things spelled out for them??


Because:

a.) I am an idiot and I don't like to think for myself and
b.) I didn't create the character, so why should I have to figure out what happens to Tony?


But mostly because I'm an idiot...


Why do you care you said above you never watched it!
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:14 pm

I think the ending was very well done.

Although it's not what I would've wanted to see.

Earlier this season, the conversation between Bobby and Tony, about when you die everything goes black?

hmmmm

Also, I read that there was three endings filmed. Maybe we'll get something different on the dvd.

One thing I did like was Christopher/Cat haunting Paulie. They never did get along.

Overall, as a loyal viewer I do feel cheated. A shame, this series could've been the best TV show ever.

At least we still have LOST....
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Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:18 pm

Conroy420 wrote:I think the ending was very well done.

Although it's not what I would've wanted to see.

Earlier this season, the conversation between Bobby and Tony, about when you die everything goes black?

hmmmm

Also, I read that there was three endings filmed. Maybe we'll get something different on the dvd.

One thing I did like was Christopher/Cat haunting Paulie. They never did get along.

Overall, as a loyal viewer I do feel cheated. A shame, this series could've been the best TV show ever.

At least we still have LOST....



I don't feel cheated at all, I liked it I thought it didn't pander to what the masses wanted, and it was done in a way that the series has always been done, no stupid fucking overblown scenes in which walls are shredded with
bullets, and hundreds of people die, the show has always had a subtlety to it that others don't.
And as for Lost, thats a huge steaming pile of shit ridden man studly.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:22 pm

The ending was okay, but the epilogue where thousands of fanboys went on the internet and couldn't defend this episode without becoming snide and insulting to anyone daring to hold an opposing opinion...I could've done without that part.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:24 pm

We can at least agree on that, Adam.
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Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:24 pm

Adam Balm wrote:The ending was okay, but the epilogue where thousands of fanboys went on the internet and couldn't defend this episode without becoming snide and insulting to anyone daring to hold an opposing opinion...I could've done without that part.



To be fair I just really dislike Lost, but I can see the appeal of it, it just annoys me and I really hate Dominic Monaghan, he should never have left Hetty Wainthrop Investigates.
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:25 pm

haha good one bud!

I watched it with a crowed of people, many of whom are avid Sopranos fans, owning all the DVDs ect.

They all felt cheated.

Chase has always tried to do something different. Part 1 of this season a prime example.

I don't understand why he wouldn't want to give a definitive ending. Make this show as great as it was.

I think it's stupid to call it cliche just because the show would end in some shootout or death.

It's a goddam tv show about the Mafia.

I think the show suffered in these last seasons when Chase and co. attempted to be as different as possible, forgetting what made the show a hit in the first place.

A blend of family drama with a world rarely seen.

What's wrong with LOST? The only complaint I have with the show is that to get people to watch it they have to comitt to it for a season or more, to really get to the good stuff.
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Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Conroy420 wrote:haha good one bud!

I watched it with a crowed of people, many of whom are avid Sopranos fans, owning all the DVDs ect.

They all felt cheated.

Chase has always tried to do something different. Part 1 of this season a prime example.

I don't understand why he wouldn't want to give a definitive ending. Make this show as great as it was.

I think it's stupid to call it cliche just because the show would end in some shootout or death.

It's a goddam tv show about the Mafia.

I think the show suffered in these last seasons when Chase and co. attempted to be as different as possible, forgetting what made the show a hit in the first place.

A blend of family drama with a world rarely seen.

What's wrong with LOST? The only complaint I have with the show is that to get people to watch it they have to comitt to it for a season or more, to really get to the good stuff.



I watched series one of Lost and some of series two, but they just seem to be making it up as they go along, and don't seem to have any clear idea of where they are going with it.
I can see what you mean about the ending of the sopranos it was an ending that is clearly going to polarise people, there won't be a middle ground I don't think, you will either love it or hate it. I didn't want to see a shootout to be honest, I do feel though that Tony was killed in the end, and in the months and years to come we will find this out I think.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:41 pm

wharto wrote:I watched series one of Lost and some of series two, but they just seem to be making it up as they go along, and don't seem to have any clear idea of where they are going with it.


Seriously, wharto - that argument has gone the way of the dodo. Even by reading the thread here at the Zone about just Season 3 of Lost will you be able to discern why.
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Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:49 pm

I gave up after a few episodes of series two, even if it isn't being made up as he goes along (which I think it is) it still became very tedious. But if you want Zarles when it finishes you can give me an explanation of it (serious offer not sarcasm) and show me how wrong I am.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:51 pm

Ribbons wrote:I was wondering, would it be fruitful to look for parallels between the mob "family" and Tony's actual family? I did notice that the series ended with a shaky truce between both.

That's the point of the show.
Adam Balm wrote:The ending was okay, but the epilogue where thousands of fanboys went on the internet and couldn't defend this episode without becoming snide and insulting to anyone daring to hold an opposing opinion...I could've done without that part.

When was I snide or insulting?
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:59 pm

I think he means the talkbacks out on the main site, Kaga. But if not, when was *I* snide or insulting? ;)
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:01 pm

Zarles wrote:I think he means the talkbacks out on the main site, Kaga. But if not, when was *I* snide or insulting? ;)

OH the talkbacks over this are hilarious. I love everyone threatening to get rid of their HBO....
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:21 pm

I only ventured out there once after the show ended, but after seeing a HUGE line-up of 'WORST FINAEL EVER!!1!' and 'HERES WHY IT SUKKED' posts, I gave up. Totally intolerable.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:27 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
Zarles wrote:I think he means the talkbacks out on the main site, Kaga. But if not, when was *I* snide or insulting? ;)

OH the talkbacks over this are hilarious. I love everyone threatening to get rid of their HBO....


Man everyone threatens to get rid of their HBO over every little thing... I remember the same thing earlier for Carnivale, Deadwood, Sex In the City, etc... Though some of those are bigger hits than others.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:28 pm

This was posted by Herc out on the TBs. Interesting stuff -

"So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant.

The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store when bobby got shot last week and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?). Car jack episode

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he. No more Tony and I guess we are supposed to be happy that Meadow didn't get clipped as well (she would have been between the shooter and Tony) since she is the only one worth a crap in that family.

Thank you David Chase for making it so obscure that I feel bad for hating you at first. Absolutely amazing!!!!"
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:43 pm

I don't see that as anything indicating Tony getting whacked right there. If anything it's easter eggs for those fans who investigate such things.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:48 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't see that as anything indicating Tony getting whacked right there. If anything it's easter eggs for those fans who investigate such things.


It does not necesserily imply Tony dying right there but that eventually he will.

That level of detail is quite fn impressive though if what Herc states is true.
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Postby Fievel on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:49 pm

If you look later in the Talkbacks, Herc points out a flaw in that.
http://tinyurl.com/2m8w2g

The guy that is supposedly Nikki Leotardo was never on the show before.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:51 pm

stereosforgeeks wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't see that as anything indicating Tony getting whacked right there. If anything it's easter eggs for those fans who investigate such things.


It does not necesserily imply Tony dying right there but that eventually he will.

That level of detail is quite fn impressive though if what Herc states is true.

Oh yeah one of the over arching themes is Tony can only end up like Big Pussy, Corrado, or Johnny Sac. Dead, Senile, or in prison...That I agree with.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:57 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't see that as anything indicating Tony getting whacked right there. If anything it's easter eggs for those fans who investigate such things.


It does not necesserily imply Tony dying right there but that eventually he will.

That level of detail is quite fn impressive though if what Herc states is true.

Oh yeah one of the over arching themes is Tony can only end up like Big Pussy, Corrado, or Johnny Sac. Dead, Senile, or in prison...That I agree with.


Ohh absolutely. Even without those extra details, however, i do feel like the scene did convey the necessary anxiety in Tonys state despite his happy family dinner.
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:01 pm

Intresting stuff Herc posted.

I hope to god that it's true.

That guy's not Nikki Letardo? He looked familar. As for the rest, pretty intresting.
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Postby Fievel on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:06 pm

It's funny. I read the post about the restaurant customers and loved it. I started to try and remember those little details. But only after I read Herc's second post did I remember that I had read about the counter guy last night (and should have known that the Nikki Leotardo part was false).

Pretty cool story in that guy getting on the show.
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Postby monorail77 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:09 pm

Its looking like the diner was populated in a way that would be a setup for at least one possible interpretation: That Tony gets whacked (by one or more diner patrons) and everything just "goes black" as he said to Bobby earlier in the season. But its only one scenario. Another perfectly viable one is that nothing happens and life just "goes on and on". Its deliberately ambiguous, I'm sure.

I'd like to see the three possible endings that were supposedly filmed. I wonder if Chase ever intended to use any of them? Was he just trying to make up his mind on which ending to use when he suddenly hit upon the ending we actually got, or was that his plan from the beginning and filming different endings was just a way of throwing everyone off the scent?
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Postby Fawst on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:12 pm

He probably filmed three endings, then decided that he didn't want to use any of them, so he ended it with the scene immediately prior to those abandoned ones.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Fievel wrote:If you look later in the Talkbacks, Herc points out a flaw in that.
http://tinyurl.com/2m8w2g

The guy that is supposedly Nikki Leotardo was never on the show before.


:cry:

Dang. That theory made me jump out of my chair.

I guess BS expands to fill a vacuum as they say. It's only natural for us to want to insert some meaning or hidden message into that last scene. I've been doing it most of the day.
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:41 pm

I think we might get a real ending on DVD.

I just have a feeling. HBO likes to fuck us with this Part 1 and Part 2 bullshit.

They probably want to completly fuck us with the 'true' ending/s.

Also, I read in that article that Balm posted the link to that the actor that played paulie states that there was a section of an episode this season where the Russian returns, but Chase didn't use it.

wtf??
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Postby John-Locke on Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:40 pm

I thought the whole episode was brilliant, it wasn't just about the changes facing The Soprano family but about the changing future of Italian Americans, we got the bit about Little Italy being 14 blocks (or whatever) and now it's just one row of shops, we got Meadow becoming a Blue Collar Criminal (Lawyer) & AJ becoming a rich kid with a privileged job handed to him on a platter much like the "Old Money" kids do and of course Carm is now a modern woman with some independence and the means to support herself if she wanted to.

The ending was brilliant too, we can all come up with our own fates for Tony, he's either going to be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life or his past is going to catch up with him either with a Bullet or a stretch in the slammer. I loved how he still needs his therapy and blames everything on him Mother.

Oh and Phil's death was classic, I would have liked to see the head crunch but seeing the kids reaction was almost as good.
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:36 pm

I just read some discussion over the finale over at CHUD.

It was pretty intresting stuff, and some quality points, so much so that it's kind've got me to reconsider my view of the finale.

It might of actually been great????
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:05 pm

I saw the guy that was supposedly Nikki Leotardo on the news last night, and it turns out he owns some pizza place kinda sorta near me. He and his friends had a Sopranos party last night, but not only to watch the show. They also wanted to see if the scene that he had filmed was going to make the show. The guy's going to go down in Sopranos history, and up until it actually aired, he was wondering if he even made the show. LOL.
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Postby Adam Balm on Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:41 am

David Chase just gave his first, and only, post-finale interview....

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html
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Postby Hollywood_Bob on Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:10 am

I loved the episode...I felt that the ending like many have said beofer is open to interpetation....does the FBI take him in? DOes he get killed?

A few of my favorite scenes from the episode...

The first being the scene with TOny and Aj's therapist...while talking about Aj's progress he goes right into his own mother and the issues she caused him...to me showing that he hasn't changed one bit...while his previouis therapy may have helped some what he still is dealing with every issues he has had since the series began.

The second and my favorite scene is with FBI Agent Harris...after tipping Tony on where Phil is...I loved his reaction when he found out that the Jersey guys got to him..."We're gonna win this thing!" straight up like he is apart of the family...I thought is was classic
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Postby Fievel on Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:15 am

David Chase wrote:"Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," says Chase


If he means the ending, then I guess Tony died (going off of his and Bobby's conversation)..... but he doesn't SAY what he's referring to!!! Such a cryptic bastard!!!!!
I like how he didn't close the door on any movies, although I'd much rather see some action from the 60's than the further adventures of Tony. Give me Johnny and Corrado..... and a young Paulie!
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:40 am

Adam Balm wrote:David Chase just gave his first, and only, post-finale interview....

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html


Ugh. I hate evasive people.
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Postby monorail77 on Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:11 pm

So, interesting news article abot Steve Perry and how he wouldn't release rights to the final song until he was assured that it wouldm't associated with Tony's death. Did he get a secret assurance from Chase that the final scene was NOT a whacking, or was he happy with the fact that it would be ambiguous? Interesting.

Journey Rocker Kept 'Sopranos' Creator Waiting
13 June 2007 (WENN)
SPOILER ALERT: Rocker Steve Perry refused to let The Sopranos creator David Chase use his classic song "Don't Stop Believin'" in the mob show's final scene until he knew the fate of the drama's leading characters. The ex-Journey frontman kept Chase waiting until three days before the long-awaited finale aired in America on Sunday. Perry is a huge Sopranos fan and feared his 1981 rock anthem would be remembered as the soundtrack to the death of James Gandolfini's character Tony Soprano - until Chase assured him that wouldn't be the case. Perry says, "The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned. I was not excited about (the possibility of) the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin''. Unless I know what happens - and I will swear to secrecy - I can't in good conscience feel good about its use." And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale. He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
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Postby Fievel on Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:18 pm

Christopher Moltisanti (Michael Imperioli) writes about his character's end.


I still can't believe he's actually 41.
He and Ralph Macchio should act together. They both have that "10 Years Younger" look.
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Postby Adam Balm on Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:41 pm

Nikki Finke has a great article on the state of HBO right now. Some choice quotes:

What a ridiculously disappointing end -- lacking in creativity and full of cowardice. No, I’m not talking about the finale of The Sopranos again. I’m talking about the management shake-up atop HBO that was a saga all its own.


Among the missed opportunities was hiring HBO alum Peter Liguori, now the entertainment president for the Fox Broadcasting Company who used to explain he left HBO because people had to literally die before anyone got promoted. Under his leadership, FX rose from nothing to the edgiest of the top five basic cable networks with critically acclaimed programs like Nip/Tuck, The Shield and Rescue Me and the award-winning FX Original Movies franchise.



[quote]It’s widely believed that, right now, Showtime is on the verge of whacking HBO. “They won’t make as much money, they won’t get as many Emmy nominations, but they have more distinctive programming than HBO,â€
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Postby Zarles on Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:08 am

That interview with Imperioli is great stuff. He sounds like the most normal guy ever.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:59 am

I saw the last ep, and I really liked it. There were so many things that could have happened... Tony getting shot, AJ turning into a terrorist, the family home being firebombed and them all dying. But the simplicity of the Soprano family sitting down for a meal just brought it all together for me, as the whole show has floated around the food and family link since day dot. Great series... you will be missed Tony. You will be missed...
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Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:44 am

I saw the finale last night: BOO! I didn't think Tony was going to die, but to not give the show a conclusive ending? LAME! All the scene really needed was for Meadow to sit down and for Tony to look over his brood. No, it cuts to black. I was pissed. Supremely pissed. I don't think its too much to ask for it to end with a period instead of stopping mid-sentence. I always thought the last image should have been the ducks coming back to the pool but even I know that would have been too precious. It would have put a bow on it though.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:50 am

Actually did anyone understand the symbolism behind Meadow's bad parking? I didn't get it unless it was something like... 'you'll get it right in the end'.
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Postby so sorry on Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:45 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:Actually did anyone understand the symbolism behind Meadow's bad parking? I didn't get it unless it was something like... 'you'll get it right in the end'.


No symbolism, just another dumb broad who can't fucking handle a car.







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Postby stereosforgeeks on Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:56 am

Adam Balm wrote:Nikki Finke has a great article on the state of HBO right now. Some choice quotes:

What a ridiculously disappointing end -- lacking in creativity and full of cowardice. No, I’m not talking about the finale of The Sopranos again. I’m talking about the management shake-up atop HBO that was a saga all its own.


Among the missed opportunities was hiring HBO alum Peter Liguori, now the entertainment president for the Fox Broadcasting Company who used to explain he left HBO because people had to literally die before anyone got promoted. Under his leadership, FX rose from nothing to the edgiest of the top five basic cable networks with critically acclaimed programs like Nip/Tuck, The Shield and Rescue Me and the award-winning FX Original Movies franchise.



[quote]It’s widely believed that, right now, Showtime is on the verge of whacking HBO. “They won’t make as much money, they won’t get as many Emmy nominations, but they have more distinctive programming than HBO,â€
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Postby Zarles on Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:43 am

Is True Blood the new Alan Ball show about a family of vampires? Can't wait for that.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:50 am

Zarles wrote:Is True Blood the new Alan Ball show about a family of vampires? Can't wait for that.


Yeah thats the one. Apparently each season will be a book in the Southern Vampire Series.
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Postby Fievel on Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:10 am

I agree with some of that article about HBO's failings. Deadwood is the only thing they need to use as an example though. At least Rome got some sort of an ending.

After reading Herc's little bit on tonight's Studio 60, I had a thought. HBO is where that show should have started. Aside from taking a break from the small screen, HBO is where Sorkin should be. If not with Studio 60, then with a new project.

And I completely disagree with what's-her-face's assessment of Entourage. I think that show is doing great, and I'm really looking forward to the new season.
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Postby Maui on Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:58 am

John-Locke wrote:Oh and Phil's death was classic, I would have liked to see the head crunch but seeing the kids reaction was almost as good.


You didn't need to see it, you could hear the CRUNCH.

They left the ending that way, to many people's disappointment because we are not done with The Soporanos just yet. Either there will be an alternate ending on a DVD collection or perhaps a big screen movie. I just don't think Chase has ended this for us yet.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:17 pm

Fievel wrote:I agree with some of that article about HBO's failings. Deadwood is the only thing they need to use as an example though. At least Rome got some sort of an ending.

After reading Herc's little bit on tonight's Studio 60, I had a thought. HBO is where that show should have started. Aside from taking a break from the small screen, HBO is where Sorkin should be. If not with Studio 60, then with a new project.

And I completely disagree with what's-her-face's assessment of Entourage. I think that show is doing great, and I'm really looking forward to the new season.


See I blame Milch for Deadwood not HBO. They offered him the opportunity to do both but he said no.
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Postby Fievel on Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:47 pm

stereosforgeeks wrote:See I blame Milch for Deadwood not HBO. They offered him the opportunity to do both but he said no.


They offered him 6 episodes (after not renewing any contracts). Milch said no to that. Then they agreed on the two 2-hour movies...... still waiting on those, and I have a feeling that the wait will be an eternal one.
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