THE OFFICE

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THE OFFICE

Postby John-Locke on Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:57 pm

MOO EDIT: For the sake of posterity, US office is voted to be more fun to watch than UK office by 3 votes (59-56). I would guess a lot of those votes came some time ago...

I made some comments in the Earl thread but thought I should really start an official Office thread seeing as how it is possibly the greatest comedy of recent years. also which do you think is funnier out of the two, the original is the best but I don't laugh as much as I cringe and feel uncomfortable.

Here's what I said.

The US Office on the other hand is simply supurb, last weeks episode was the funniest yet, I was laughing so hard I was crying at times. I've never worked with anyone that much like David Brent, Michael Scott on the other hand is just like one of my old bosses, remember a few weeks ago when Pam was saying about how Micheal turns into a different person when he's wearing jeans? That was my boss, all the girls hated it, he would frequently stand over them with his crotch just behind their head as he checked on their work or made conversation. This week with the foot, well he was a cyclist who acted in a similar manner when he had come off his bike, wanting extra attention from everyone and being disgusting at the same time, I unfortunately had the misfortune of being treated similar to Ryan the temp (although I was Staff) always having to cater for his needs, what a demanding gentleman he was.

The UK version I guess will always be lauded as the better of the two but I have always felt more comfortable watching the NBC one, Micheal is more human than David in many ways, I think both Gervais and Carell put a lot of themselves into the character and at the end of the day for me Carell is a nicer person that seems more innocent in his actions, his flaws are more realistic and he doesn't seem as ego-testicle as Gervais.
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Postby thomasgaffney on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:01 pm

I'll admit that I haven't given the US Office much of a chance. I watched the first episode or two and found it paled in comparison to the UK version. I haven't seen the US version since.

For me, the real kicker, and what puts the UK version over the top, is not Gervais vs. Carell, but Martin Freeman as Tim. He absolutely stole that show right out from under Gervais and provided - for me - the biggest laughs.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:05 pm

I need to catch me the US version first - but thought I'd pre-empt people from the UK saying "Werner Hogg" just because it came first.

A few years back, I watched the US version of "Cracker" (known in the States as "Fitz"). Now anyone in the UK would agree...Robbie Coltrane pretty much made that role his own...so my expectations were set to low.

Fitz was portrayed by Robert Pastorelli (Be Cool) and was considerably different. It was much more fun watching a different take on the same character than it was someone from the States trying to mimic someone from the UK - which rarely, if ever, works well and vice versa.

From what I've heard I think I'd still like the Werner Hogg version because David Brent strikes me as the "smaller man" of the two - and I liked that...that he could've been more at one point in his career - but settled for WH and now the chance has gone forever. Sounds like the tone in the US one was a little lighter?

Have I got my ass and mouth confused again JL? And where do I get my hands on the US version if I don't have the ability to download - is it out already?
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:05 pm

i love the U.S. Office... the xmas episode was just briliant - Carell's facial expression and response at the end when he was flashed - priceless...
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Postby John-Locke on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:05 pm

Yeah it did start weak, they tried to copy the UK scripts too much and it didn't work with the change of location, by the time it got to the Basketball match I was hooked.

As far as Freeman goes, well he always made me feel uncomfortable too because I saw so much of myself in his character, cut a little close to the bone if you will.

As I said, this isn't which is better but which is funnier, The BBC version will always be better but I never laugh as hard as I do at Carrell and his team at Dunder Mifflin.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:07 pm

thomasgaffney wrote:I'll admit that I haven't given the US Office much of a chance. I watched the first episode or two and found it pale comparison to the UK version. I haven't seen the US version since.

For me, the real kicker, and what puts the UK version over the top, is not Gervais vs. Carell, but Martin Freeman as Tim. He absolutely stole that show right out from under Gervais and provided - for me - the biggest laughs.


Spot on IMO. Any of the interplay between Martin Freeman and Mackenzie Crook made it. Not least of all because the latter is truly unique in look.....
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Postby John-Locke on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:08 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:And where do I get my hands on the US version if I don't have the ability to download - is it out already?


I think it's been on BBC3 and was being shown on BBC2 late night if you don't have digital yet.

Yes the US version is more light hearted.
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Postby thomasgaffney on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:15 pm

John-Locke wrote:As far as Freeman goes, well he always made me feel uncomfortable too because I saw so much of myself in his character, cut a little close to the bone if you will.


Same here, and that's why the UK Office - for me - was ten times funnier than what I saw in my limited watching of the US Office.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:16 pm

I am really enjoying the US version. It did start off week but it has become very good. I have now laughed as hard at the US version (Carell taking the picture during the flash at the Christmas party) as the UK version (The look Garath gave the camera as he rode off on the motorcycle)

Still I own the DVD of the UK and not the US
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Postby Doc Holliday on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:18 pm

Thanks John - I reckon I'd like the US one too. I laughed at the UK one, but not out loud so much and often it was accompanied with a genuine chill down my spine. I was laughing at an exaggeration of my own worst points which only has limited mileage before the tears come down. I used to love the show then immediately be miserable afterwards as I remembered I would be somewhere not so different in less than 12 hours time.

Only without the secretary that secretly thought I was cool.

A lighter version sounds good to me...... :D
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:29 pm

I love the UK version but I readily admit a number of pop references go right over my head. I think the US version took the core concept and ran with it well while making parts of it their own. I haven't felt any of the "uncomfortable" bits that came up in the end of the UK version in the US one yet.....not sure if they are going to go that same route or not though where you switch from loathing Mike/David to pitying him.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:32 pm

Americans do everything better. Seriously, our President says so.

I've seen the British version and while I appreciate it a great deal, I often find it more sly and clever than outright funny. The American version is sly and clever as well, but that cast just has a manic chemistry I love.

On a side note, I went to the premiere party for The Office this year and got to meet the entire cast. Many, many cool people. My friend and I got WAY hit on by Stanley. Like, WAAAAAAY hit on. My girlfriend played pool with the warehouse workers. And the Indian girl looked friggin' amazing, not all buttoned-up like she is on the show. Good times...
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:37 pm

Well, I've only seen 1 of the US ones, but I think Gervais is the best new British comic talent to emerge for a long time - since Morris and Coogan, probably - and they've been about for at least 15 years now.

And, those 4 young ladies who I met from St Louis, Missouri all preferred the UK version, which surprised me!

From what I know about you, JL, I think you actively dislike things which make you cringe. Whereas I get a kind of sick amusement when I can feel my toes curling.....
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:45 pm

it's really hard to compare the two at this point, they're so different.

The UK ran for 12 episodes plus the christmas special. There were MAJOR arcs running through both seasons, and every episode was written around those arcs.

The US version has become more of a sit-com/episode of the week type show, with the only running thread being the Jim/Pam love story.

I think the US version has grown A LOT since the first couple episodes. It's also grown AWAY from the UK version.

I prefer the UK version because I think the "subtle" humor plays better, the awkward moments are truly awkward. I think the characters on the UK version are a little smarter as well. Gareth is a lot more believable than Dwight, Tim more than Jim and so on... I just dig it more.

But, I have grown to love the US version, because it is now it's own show.

And I'm in love with Pam.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:59 pm

The love story was better in the UK version so far, but the next episode of the US version addresses that issue so we will see. I just felt more for Tim and Dawn then Pam and Jim. Pam is cute though.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:06 pm

if they hook jim and pam up it would be a really brave move. because to do that, and continue the series would be saying they have no ties to the original series anymore.

it would probably suck, but it'd be brave!

and i wept like a baby at the end of the uk christmas special. i can't see the us version having that kind of an impact.

oh, AND what just crossed my mind... The "dance". Steve Carrell's stupid dance on the booze cruise was so pale in comparison to ricky gervais' stupid dance in the Comic Relief ep.

They should never have even tried to do that one.
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Postby John-Locke on Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:14 pm

Bluebottle wrote:and i wept like a baby at the end of the uk christmas special. i can't see the us version having that kind of an impact.


Me too, like a stupid little baby, I sometimes get emotional but I only ever cried at this and the end of Big Fish.

oh, AND what just crossed my mind... The "dance". Steve Carrell's stupid dance on the booze cruise was so pale in comparison to ricky gervais' stupid dance in the Comic Relief ep.

They should never have even tried to do that one.


Agreed but it was still a great episode, that guy jumping overboard made up for it.
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Postby bluebottle on Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:22 pm

John-Locke wrote:Agreed but it was still a great episode, that guy jumping overboard made up for it.


Yeah, totally hilarious moment.

And THAT moment signifies the difference between the two shows. The UK version would never do something like that, because it could be argued that it's slightly over the top.

Although, they did leave the girl in the wheelchair in the stairwell...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:54 pm

The US Office got really slagged off or it was a flop when it was released wasn't it? One or both of the two. When it aired on BBC2 before Christmas, I was interested in seeing it based on the appeal of Steve Carrell.

I pretty much had a small expectation that it was gonna be a bit rubbish, but I try to ignore these preconceptions based on hearing other opinions beforehand. It took about one episode for any preconceptions to completely dissapear and I found myself actually really liking it. I might say 'suprised' to like it, but again I am trying to free myself of being guilty of making my mind up about it before seeing it.

It doesn't have the same fly on the wall documentary feel of the original, but still I regard it as having a realistic feel well enough, it's still full of great funny moments and situations, Carrell is a good comedian already, and his character is not a carbon copy crap imitation of Gervais but is an embarressing and even pitiful character all of his own.

The 2 young characters who are trying to get it together subtly in the show are a good concept themselves, and endearing to watch, as is the dude who is sort of second in command to Carrell who is always being the butt of many jokes.

As an alternative version of the UK office or not, it works very well on it's own. It's got it's own knowingness of what's cringeful, true to life, embarressing therefore funny, I just wished I got to watch all of the episodes.

It's also a great build up to the 2am start time of Quizmania on ITV where I have a good ol' perve over Debbie Kay, whilst tryig to get through on the chatline where not only can I win £200 but I can charm and perve the pants off of her on National TV too.
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Great Topic

Postby Apple Scruff on Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:13 pm

I like this topic, I've done a lot of thinking about it, because I was one of the O.G. American fans of the UK office.

The American one is funny. If someone had never seen any of the Offices before and they were American, I MIGHT show them the American one. People in America seem to have a hard time with the UK one. Its more real. Thats why I love it, but its also WAY more awkward, and way darker. The American Office so far, is like the vibe of the lightest UK episodes. They don't touch on the dark side of Michael Scott ...yet?

The reason the UK one is funnier overall though is because of the secondary characters. Tim, Dawn, and Gareth bounce off David Brent so well, and all in different ways. Little things like Chris Finch and Keith are touches that only the original mind can give you well. Theres a little too much imitation going on in the American one.

The American one is doing a really good job, and they're providing a great service to many Americans who didn't get (or didn't get to see) the UK office. I'm American and a huge Steve Carrell fan, and I appreciate what its doing. I look forward to seeing what it does as time goes by, but the UK is just better to me.
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Postby El Scorcho on Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:43 pm

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the US version. Haven't seen the UK version. Didn't much like the first episode but I stuck with it and now reap great rewards each week. The cast and chemistry is perfect, and I feel like I know the characters. The Jim/Pam relationship is starting to get to me... They really are perfect for each other, but I fear the writers are going to drag it out as long as possible. Like years. And that would suck. Still, last week's episodes was one of the best yet, and I hope it will only get better.
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:05 pm

I do think the UK version is absolutley perfect, every shot, every frame is a work of genius. You can't better that. I love the American office but I don't think it hits the same heights, although it's a lot more subtle than most US shows it's still sometmes a little obvious and with many of the characters you can tell they have learned the lines form a script, in the UK version a lot of it seems totally natural or ad libbed when in fact it's just so tightly script.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:22 pm

I don't like the American version better than the UK version, but I do think Michael Scott is an easier character to understand than David Brent.
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Postby The Wrong Guy on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:50 am

The U.S version is good, the U.K version is better. Freelove Freeway makes all the difference.
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Postby thomasgaffney on Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:05 am

The Wrong Guy wrote:The U.S version is good, the U.K version is better. Freelove Freeway makes all the difference.


David: Free love on the free love freeway,
The love is free and the freeway's long...
I got some hot love on the hot-love highway
Ain't going home cos' my baby's gone

Gareth: She's deaaaaaaaaaaaaaad...

David: She's not dead.
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Postby magicmonkey on Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:18 am

Not seen the U.S version as yet, but from what I've read here, I think I'll have to seek it out.

Yup, the UK version was aces. I still remember just tuning into BBC2 and seeing Brent telling the joke;

"What goes up and down Nelson's column?"
"Winnie Mandela"

Told with his little childishly, devilish smug goatee'd face, genius.

The only other comedy in the UK that comes close to it is Peepshow. Check it out if you haven't already, I laughed so hard cheese juice ran freely from my nose.
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Postby Gheorghe Zamfir on Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:33 am

Never seen the UK version, the US version has improved quite a bit though. I found the first season pretty unremarkable, wasn't entirely sure I'd bother with it when it came back. Glad I did though, this season has been a riot, I've been cracking up almost every week. I'll have to netflix the UK version someday though.
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Postby Lupe on Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:52 am

It made me laugh... But its a different show. Its like comparing "Fawlty Towers" to "Some Mothers do 'ave em"

The former is more excrutiating than it is funny, the latter is more slap stick and fun loving than it is painfull.

Both are great entertainment but the UK version has an edge I prefer. Its not even really a comedy, more an observational drama.

I was watching series one last night "Finchy" is just too disturbing for words, the phrase "I'd be up to my nuts in Guts" has to be the most awful, and brilliantly observed treatments of that kind of arse hole I've ever witnessed.

The whole thing reminds me of "Baal" to wax obscure theatrical references. Listen to David Brent deconstruct "Slough" by Betjeman I enjoy both shows, but they're very different beasts.

Didn't Carell win a Golden Globe last night ?
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Postby Autumn on Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:05 am

Bluebottle wrote:I prefer the UK version because I think the "subtle" humor plays better, the awkward moments are truly awkward. I think the characters on the UK version are a little smarter as well. Gareth is a lot more believable than Dwight, Tim more than Jim and so on... I just dig it more.



I agreed. The subtly is what i loved about that version, its was just so much more realistic, in regards to the documentary style of the whole show.
And even though it had the realism and the subtly, it still managed to be hysterically funny.
And who can forget the horrific majesty of 'the dance'?
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Postby RogueScribner on Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:39 pm

You know, I'm not in the habit of talking to my TV, but when Michael blew Jim's secret last night, I was yelling shit. :P
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Postby El Scorcho on Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:29 pm

RogueScribner wrote:You know, I'm not in the habit of talking to my TV, but when Michael blew Jim's secret last night, I was yelling shit. :P


True dat.
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Postby Ribbons on Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:35 pm

What was that thing he said? "Jim is a close, personal friend of mine, so this is only between him, and Pam. ...and me."
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:41 pm

Ribbons wrote:What was that thing he said? "Jim is a close, personal friend of mine, so this is only between him, and Pam. ...and me."

LOLZORS!!

Yeah, and he had his special hair do then too...

Pretty awesome episode. I'm a sucker for the Jim/Pam stuff. Had a few of those myself.
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Postby Brutal Deluxe on Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:37 am

UK version by an absolute mile....please, Americans always fuck things up....
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:04 am

I love em both, but the BBC / British version is much better -- smarter, funnier, and more authentic.

The NBC / US version is good, I like it lots, but, like most American tv shows, the characters don't seem like real people to me; just another group of sitcom characters. It works, and it, along with Earl, are the two funniest comedies right now, but it's a distinct step below the pure comedy/drama genius of the BBC / British version...
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Postby El Scorcho on Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:10 pm

I love Pam. Dearly. Too bad she's married in real life.

She (Jenna Fischer) even directed her own independent film with her husband (writer of the Dawn of the Dead remake).

http://imdb.com/title/tt0316187/
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Postby RogueScribner on Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Anyone else go a little ga-ga when Pam let down her hair for a few seconds? Amazing the difference hair can make. Heh heh.
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Postby El Scorcho on Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:56 pm

RogueScribner wrote:Anyone else go a little ga-ga when Pam let down her hair for a few seconds? Amazing the difference hair can make. Heh heh.


Yes. And she was luminous on Last Call with Carson Daly last Friday.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:10 pm

Did anyone else watch this last night? I was absolutely floored by the scene between Pam and Jim in the kitchen, and then by Pam breaking down during her confessional. It was so compelling, driving right into the tension between them. I loved how serious Jim was, just trying to push her for something better, and you could see by the look on her face that she just wants him to say it. She's burdened by Roy and she's starting to feel it. That's great television.

Also, I worked in a warehouse for the summers in college, so I WAAAAAY related with Ryan's overachiever getting shouted down, and also with the pissed as hell looks on the workers' faces as Michael dumped the bag of flo-pack. That shit is a bitch to sweep up.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:22 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Did anyone else watch this last night? I was absolutely floored by the scene between Pam and Jim in the kitchen, and then by Pam breaking down during her confessional. It was so compelling, driving right into the tension between them. I loved how serious Jim was, just trying to push her for something better, and you could see by the look on her face that she just wants him to say it. She's burdened by Roy and she's starting to feel it. That's great television.

Also, I worked in a warehouse for the summers in college, so I WAAAAAY related with Ryan's overachiever getting shouted down, and also with the pissed as hell looks on the workers' faces as Michael dumped the bag of flo-pack. That shit is a bitch to sweep up.


Yeah, last nights episode was great. I read it that Jim has finally realized that Pam is a loser whose life is ruled by fear. Like many young women, she is slowly ruining her life because she is afraid to be happy. Typical, and very realistic.

I also loved the fact that the factory guys are thinking about forming a union. The suitwomans' response was also very realistic in terms of the typical corporate reponse -- scare the workers into not organizing. The other office didn't close because of the union; the other office closed because of mismanagment (as per usual). I really hope they keep that side story going; the workers organizing into a powerful union; thereby forcing the coprorate overlords to bow to their demands.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:26 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Yeah, last nights episode was great. I read it that Jim has finally realized that Pam is a loser whose life is ruled by fear. Like many young women, she is slowly ruining her life because she is afraid to be happy. Typical, and very realistic.

That could be really interesting, but I don't see them letting Jim get over his "crush" any time soon. Thing is, I think they both genuinely love one another but she's afraid to shake things up and he's too honorable to say something. I like that tension, and I see things boiling over soon.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:30 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Yeah, last nights episode was great. I read it that Jim has finally realized that Pam is a loser whose life is ruled by fear. Like many young women, she is slowly ruining her life because she is afraid to be happy. Typical, and very realistic.

That could be really interesting, but I don't see them letting Jim get over his "crush" any time soon. Thing is, I think they both genuinely love one another but she's afraid to shake things up and he's too honorable to say something. I like that tension, and I see things boiling over soon.


agreed Whedon. I don't think Jim saw her as a loser so much as he was disappointed in her inability to stand up to whatshisname and go after something she wants. For that, I think he still blames whathisname, not necessarily Pam.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:32 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Yeah, last nights episode was great. I read it that Jim has finally realized that Pam is a loser whose life is ruled by fear. Like many young women, she is slowly ruining her life because she is afraid to be happy. Typical, and very realistic.

That could be really interesting, but I don't see them letting Jim get over his "crush" any time soon. Thing is, I think they both genuinely love one another but she's afraid to shake things up and he's too honorable to say something. I like that tension, and I see things boiling over soon.


Oh yeah, I don't think they're going to drop that thread, but I saw something in the way he was speaking to her, and the way he sort of shook his head and looked at the camera at the end of the episode which showed him to be somewhat exasperrated or even a little disgusted with her.

I like the tension too. Although I was getting a little tired about how they've been dragging that out, it looks like it may be heading in some interesting direction...
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:34 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Oh yeah, I don't think they're going to drop that thread, but I saw something in the way he was speaking to her, and the way he sort of shook his head and looked at the camera at the end of the episode which showed him to be somewhat exasperrated or even a little disgusted with her.


I agree with that, but I don't think it was "wow, she really is a loser" disgusted. I think it was "What a waste, if only someone could get her away from whathisname" exasperated.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:39 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Oh yeah, I don't think they're going to drop that thread, but I saw something in the way he was speaking to her, and the way he sort of shook his head and looked at the camera at the end of the episode which showed him to be somewhat exasperrated or even a little disgusted with her.


I agree with that, but I don't think it was "wow, she really is a loser" disgusted. I think it was "What a waste, if only someone could get her away from whathisname" exasperated.


You're probably right. I think I probably read too much of my own attitude into the story, maybe! I have no tolerance for that kind of emotional stupidity.

Seriously, if I knew Pam, or was in the same situation as Jim in relation to Pam, I woulda been like, "WHATever, loser" a long time ago. But then again, I'm pretty cold and blunt when it comes to such things.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:40 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:agreed Whedon. I don't think Jim saw her as a loser so much as he was disappointed in her inability to stand up to whatshisname and go after something she wants. For that, I think he still blames whathisname, not necessarily Pam.

Yeah, that's it. Jim's pissed off that he's holding her back, and it sometimes comes off that he's frustrated with her.

And whatshisname is Roy.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:44 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:And whatshisname is Roy.


thanks, I was having real trouble with that for some reason. I know too many guys like him in real life, so I'm probably dumping his name from my brain on purpose.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:50 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:agreed Whedon. I don't think Jim saw her as a loser so much as he was disappointed in her inability to stand up to what'shisname and go after something she wants. For that, I think he still blames whathisname, not necessarily Pam.

Yeah, that's it. Jim's pissed off that he's holding her back, and it sometimes comes off that he's frustrated with her.

And what'shisname is Roy.


The thing with that is it isn't Roy who's holding her back, it's Pam who is holding herself back. Shes afraid of life, and in her crippling fear, she is slowy but surely ruining her life.

Roys a big meathead jerk, but she could break up with him anytime... if she wasn't afraid.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:54 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:The thing with that is it isn't Roy who's holding her back, it's Pam who is holding herself back. Shes afraid of life, and in her crippiling fear, she is slowy but surely ruining her life.

Roys a big meathead jerk, but she could break up with him anytime... if she wasn't afraid.

Absolutely, but Jim sees it as Roy holding her back. In reality, Pam is too weak a person to stand up to Roy--she could, but she doesn't--and Jim hates the fact that she would even have to stand up to him.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:58 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:The thing with that is it isn't Roy who's holding her back, it's Pam who is holding herself back. Shes afraid of life, and in her crippiling fear, she is slowy but surely ruining her life.

Roys a big meathead jerk, but she could break up with him anytime... if she wasn't afraid.

Absolutely, but Jim sees it as Roy holding her back. In reality, Pam is too weak a person to stand up to Roy--she could, but she doesn't--and Jim hates the fact that she would even have to stand up to him.


That's what I think this is leading to, Pam beginning to figure out that Roy is a selfish douche, and that she can do better. She'll break up with him shortly before the wedding. Then next season will be "where do we go from here" for Jim and Pam, which will create even more sexual tension than we have now. They wont have any more excuses as to why they shouldn't be together.
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