TERMINATOR: The Sarah Connor Chronicles

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Postby King Psyz on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:34 pm

that's some existential shit right there... might be a bad idea for the TV series plot if you want to last past that plot development.
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Postby Evil Hobbit on Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:39 pm

So if Skynet send Cameron to protect John they succeeded. Because she was in the flashback/forward of Reese.

I think John did send Cameron. To protect him from dying so she can help him and his mother to destroy Skynet. And in doing so he sacrifices himself since he'll never be born then.
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Postby allenw on Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:40 am

Evil Hobbit wrote:So if Skynet send Cameron to protect John they succeeded. Because she was in the flashback/forward of Reese.


But that was almost certainly Cameron from *before* she was sent back; we could discover otherwise, but that's certainly what we were meant to believe at the time.
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Postby DanielSan on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:12 pm

allenw wrote:
Evil Hobbit wrote:So if Skynet send Cameron to protect John they succeeded. Because she was in the flashback/forward of Reese.


But that was almost certainly Cameron from *before* she was sent back; we could discover otherwise, but that's certainly what we were meant to believe at the time.


Yeah, I thought it was Cameron before she was sent back to meet young John Connor. Maybe not, though!
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:15 pm

considering they showed her as John's personal assistant practically maybe it's Cameron from now... hard to say.
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Postby The Vicar on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:51 pm

Well, how many Cameron models were there?
( there was, after all, more than one Arnie model )

It could be Cameron, and yet not be Cameron.

Yeah.
That sounded smart....
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Postby TheBaxter on Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:25 pm

i'm still trying to figure out if Cameron is a Cylon or not...
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:35 pm

Cameron just wants to be a Real Girl to dance, and be a pretty pretty princess!!

Except that she arranges for Russians to be shot in cold blood. Damn.

A fairly lackluster episode, except that I love that they've remembered that people DID see Robert Patrick and might thus be a believer.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:38 pm

and did you catch the bit at the end where Uncle Reese was crying after watching Cameron and HEARING THE MUSIC SHE WAS DANCING TOO...

will we finally get some answers to what happened in the basement at the holding house he learned of the founders of skynet?

will he start revealing more targets?

THE ONLY BUMMER IS IT LOOKS LIKE NEXT WEEK IS THE FINALE... :cry:

Please tell everyone you know to watch next week so they keep it on the air...
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:47 pm

King Psyz wrote:and did you catch the bit at the end where Uncle Reese was crying after watching Cameron and HEARING THE MUSIC SHE WAS DANCING TOO...


What? What did a the Dino, he miss, eh? Was it a the music from a the basement?
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:54 pm

yeah, i thought he was just enthralled by seeing a dancing terminator, maybe thinking she could be more than just a cold-blooded killing machine.

but if it ties into the torture chamber somehow, that would be cool.

good episode, i think this show is getting better and better (i was iffy on the ballet stuff, but it paid off)
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:42 pm

Caught the first episode of this sorry sack of shit.

As much as I love Summer Glau and Leonidas' bit of stuff, this really is crap.

Has this been covered here?

All stuff going back in time (or forward as the case may be in this abortion of a show), has to be surrounded by biological matter.

I don't get how they aren't smuggling guns back if Terminators, which are machine with a biological covering, are sent back?

They send someone back to the past to build a weapon when they could have just sent the weapon back in Terminator skin?

And, how come, the Terminators, like in the comics, use humans as vessels to carry their weapons back for them?
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:40 pm

this all goes back to the original film. what reese specifically said was "nothing DEAD can go back"... didn't actually say anything specifically about it being BIOLOGICAL, only about it being ALIVE. so presumably it's the fact that a terminator, in it's entirety, both flesh and metal, is alive that allows it to go through. that raises plenty of other questions, like why skynet, a machine, would build a time machine that only works for living things... but all this is part of the original mythos of the series as established in the first film. if you couldn't accept the premise from the beginning, why are you still watching the series 2 films and a tv series later? at some point you've got to either accept the rules of the universe as they've been set forth from the start, or give up altogether. you can't really blame the show, though, for staying true to the same rules that have been established by the films from the very beginning.
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Postby Vegeta on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:43 pm

papalazeru wrote:Caught the first episode of this sorry sack of shit.

As much as I love Summer Glau and Leonidas' bit of stuff, this really is crap.

Has this been covered here?

All stuff going back in time (or forward as the case may be in this abortion of a show), has to be surrounded by biological matter.


So you didn't like the show, papa? :wink:
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:33 pm

TheBaxter wrote:this all goes back to the original film. what reese specifically said was "nothing DEAD can go back"... didn't actually say anything specifically about it being BIOLOGICAL, only about it being ALIVE. so presumably it's the fact that a terminator, in it's entirety, both flesh and metal, is alive that allows it to go through. that raises plenty of other questions, like why skynet, a machine, would build a time machine that only works for living things... but all this is part of the original mythos of the series as established in the first film. if you couldn't accept the premise from the beginning, why are you still watching the series 2 films and a tv series later? at some point you've got to either accept the rules of the universe as they've been set forth from the start, or give up altogether. you can't really blame the show, though, for staying true to the same rules that have been established by the films from the very beginning.


I can accept certain things but clothes dissappearing through a time hole?

That's an invention by geeks in a room working unsociable hours.

And if nothing dead can go back, why is there hair on people's bodies. Technically that's dead and if you make an exception for that then there's all manner of exceptions possible.

Losing....mind.......

@ Vegeta. On basis do you make your statement that I didn't enjoy the show. I see no real evidence.

:lol:
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Postby DanielSan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:58 pm

Regarding whether Cameron is the same Cameron that BAG sees in the future:

In the second episode, Sarah asks, when they are going to go meet the 4 resistance fighters, "These resistance fighters. They know you?"

Cameron responds: "They've seen my before."

That leads me to believe that the Cameron we see in the future is the Cameron that eventually will go, but has not yet gone, into the past.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:35 pm

TheBaxter wrote:yeah, i thought he was just enthralled by seeing a dancing terminator, maybe thinking she could be more than just a cold-blooded killing machine.

but if it ties into the torture chamber somehow, that would be cool.

good episode, i think this show is getting better and better (i was iffy on the ballet stuff, but it paid off)


maybe it's just me but it seemed they were slowly increasing the volume of the music and it seemed to strike him somewhat suddenly.

the music seemed mightly simillar if not the same. I will go back and look at the DVR'd episode and check.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:37 pm

DanielSan wrote:Regarding whether Cameron is the same Cameron that BAG sees in the future:

In the second episode, Sarah asks, when they are going to go meet the 4 resistance fighters, "These resistance fighters. They know you?"

Cameron responds: "They've seen my before."

That leads me to believe that the Cameron we see in the future is the Cameron that eventually will go, but has not yet gone, into the past.


makes sense, I really wish they had just given us one episode where they go to meet the entire crew it would have made for some awesome dynamics...

I got the feeling we were gonna see more of the 4 man crew in LA though, maybe next week or next season?
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Postby Fievel on Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:42 am

Just watched this week's episode.
All of the T2 movie references were fucking awesome.
I do love this show.

I hope it continues after next week.
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:20 pm

I think that the Cameron that Brian Austin Reese sees in the bunker is the pre-time travel Cameron that was programmed as good, but the thing Torturing Reese in the basement is the current Cameron who has lived half a century and has slowly become an evil vindictive robot with a soul and ballet dances the truth out of her victims. Summer Glau used to be a pro ballet dancer and I was wondering when they'd write that into the show.

Oh yeah and aviators on chicks is hot. Cameron riding on that cop bike all Robert Patrick style was radical. The only bullshit moment was when Sarah tells john that she broke out of the nut house because she signed some custody papers. We all know she broke out, because the cops took some photos of Arnie and his bouquet of shotgun at the mall earlier that day.
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Postby TheBaxter on Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:09 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:I think that the Cameron that Brian Austin Reese sees in the bunker is the pre-time travel Cameron that was programmed as good, but the thing Torturing Reese in the basement is the current Cameron who has lived half a century and has slowly become an evil vindictive robot with a soul and ballet dances the truth out of her victims. Summer Glau used to be a pro ballet dancer and I was wondering when they'd write that into the show.


i hope you're a writer for this show so that this actually happens. would be tres awesome.
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Postby King Psyz on Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:36 pm

yeah that would be un fucking real
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:37 pm

yeah, because in the future ballet dancers don't wear clothes.
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Postby RaulMonkey on Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:10 pm

allenw wrote:
Fievel wrote:
King Psyz wrote:What's on the damned video tape and what did they do to B.A.G. in that damn dollhouse basement room?


Not showing the basement events pissed me off.
If it's bad enough you can't show it, then don't even allude to it.

It obviously wasn't something TOO bad as B.A.G. was still "with it" when they brought him back. I dug the Andy back story. Interesting how the cause of Judgement Day seems to change all the time... I like that.


Oh, I'm quite sure we'll see what happened in the basement real soon now (assuming the show continues). Most likely some kind of brainwashing, probably done by Cameron (previous-future version, or just one that looks like her... or maybe even the "present" one 20 years later?). Killing off chess-guy may not have been John Connor's idea...

Which ties into my Insane Insight: Skynet *knows* that its creation is part of a temporal loop. It may even have known so from the start, and that's *why* it sent Arnie back in the first place (and maybe "let" Connor send Reese back as well; note that we were just told that Connor couldn't have captured the Skynet time machine without help from the "reprogrammed" terminators).

Whether or not Skynet originally knew that John Connor was essential to its creation, it knows it "now" (whatever that means in this context). Cameron is protecting John Conner.... but on Skynet's behalf, to ensure that the time loop remains unbroken. It's all there in plain sight. Look at the series' opening narration, and note the first pronoun in the second sentence:

"In the future, my son will lead mankind in a war against Skynet, the computer system programmed to destroy the world. It has sent machines back through time, some to kill him, one to protect him. Today we fight to stop Skynet from ever being created. To change our future, to change his fate. The war to save mankind begins now."

Thoughts?


Yikes, I hadn't noticed that. I've always been distracted by thinking about how we've never had any indication that Skynet was programmed to destroy the world. It became self-aware and then decided on its own to wipe out humanity as an act of defence...
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Postby more_cowbell on Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:34 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
Will Scarlet wrote:Then with surgical calm she uses a pliers to yank out his chip.


Yeah, about that... that part really bothered me, because in everything we've seen, Terminators are virtually indestructible, unstoppable killing machines. And yet, suddenly they have a chip in their heads conveniently accessible from the outside? All you have to do is yank it out and it shuts them off?

Lame.



the chips in their heads were shown in terminator 2 directors cut. there is a scene where sarah has to take the chip out to reset Arnie's T-800. she goes to destroy it with a hammer and john stops her...so the chip isnt some new crappy device the show's producers have come up with ...its all James Cameron baby
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:27 am

It's sad for me that after watching eight glorious episodes of this small screen wonder, that it is only now that I realize that Summer Glau's character name is a James Cameron reference.

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Postby Fried Gold on Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:12 am

I've seen the first two episodes and they've both been fairly vacuous bilge-filled affairs. Is this show worth continuing to watch beyond these?
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Postby RogueScribner on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am

It gets better.

Not by leaps and bounds, but it's not Bionic Woman.
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Postby allenw on Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:56 pm

RogueScribner wrote:It gets better.

Not by leaps and bounds, but it's not Bionic Woman.


Yeah, say what you will about Jamie Sommers, she can definitely leap and bound. :wink:
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Postby Fried Gold on Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:23 pm

RogueScribner wrote:It gets better.

Not by leaps and bounds, but it's not Bionic Woman.

I'll keep it going. The only thing that intrigued me so far was the explicit references to Terminator 3....and the slight lack of logic in it's reasoning.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:07 am

i liked the bit with BAG taking john connor to see his daddy as a little kid.

all the fbi agents getting thrown into the pool... in slow motion... was cheesy. c'mon, if you're gonna have a slaughter, at least show SOME of it.

i couldn't help thinking though, during that sequence, "they're gonna need some more fbi guys"

not much of a finale. but then, i dont' think it was originally intended to be one.
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Postby Fievel on Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:21 am

TheBaxter wrote:i liked the bit with BAG taking john connor to see his daddy as a little kid.

all the fbi agents getting thrown into the pool... in slow motion... was cheesy. c'mon, if you're gonna have a slaughter, at least show SOME of it.


Fully agree in regards to the park scene.

But, I disagree about the pool scene. For a network TV show, I thought that was a very cool scene. Just body after body coming down until the final body floated into the camera. Fine use of Johnny Cash there as well.

The very ending was horrible though - even for a regular episode's ending. It wasn't a very big explosion. Ooooh, so Cameron has to get some new skin!! But like you said, Baxter, it likely wasn't meant to be a finale.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:28 am

I thought the last 20 minutes was some of the best television I have ever seen, easily on a network broadcast.

I would have ended the episode on the paramedic dropping his radio though. The bit with Cameron and the Jeep was very much a Dallas or soap opera ending and quite silly.

Obviously it's going to be an issue what with her all melty and shit... goo thing she's be saving up on flesh...

The park scene was amazingly well written for prime time broadcast TV, more so for a genre series. I started crying like a little bitch so it worked on someone... Just seeing the connection on BAG's face as he looked on like a sort of surrogate Dad. Seeing the realisation of what's unfolding on John's face... Better than any attempt at a heartfelt moment in the actual movies I thought.

Everytime they went that route in T2 it felt silly and forced. This was natural and had an actual impact.

But then to follow that up with Johnny Mother Fuckin Cash and one of the most inventive ways around broadcast TV rules was over the fuckin top. Like holy shit woah.

I need more and more of whoever wrote those two scenes, and no more of whoever cobbled together the jeep bomb scene.
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Postby Fievel on Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:46 am

King Psyz wrote:I thought the last 20 minutes was some of the best television I have ever seen, easily on a network broadcast.

I would have ended the episode on the paramedic dropping his radio though. The bit with Cameron and the Jeep was very much a Dallas or soap opera ending and quite silly.

Obviously it's going to be an issue what with her all melty and shit... goo thing she's be saving up on flesh...

The park scene was amazingly well written for prime time broadcast TV, more so for a genre series. I started crying like a little bitch so it worked on someone... Just seeing the connection on BAG's face as he looked on like a sort of surrogate Dad. Seeing the realisation of what's unfolding on John's face... Better than any attempt at a heartfelt moment in the actual movies I thought.

Everytime they went that route in T2 it felt silly and forced. This was natural and had an actual impact.

But then to follow that up with Johnny Mother Fuckin Cash and one of the most inventive ways around broadcast TV rules was over the fuckin top. Like holy shit woah.

I need more and more of whoever wrote those two scenes, and no more of whoever cobbled together the jeep bomb scene.


I had THE EXACT same thoughts!! So amazed that the television show succeeded where the original films failed (not that it was really their main intent). Great scene and I may have had something in my eye at John's realization... can't tell.

I also love how they referenced the deleted T2 scene - "You've done this before".
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Postby Fawst on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:15 am

Fievel wrote:I also love how they referenced the gaffneyed T2 scene - "You've done this before".


GOD, I love that word filter!
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:29 am

My thought on the FBI agents in the pool was that "this is where a director earns his cred... knowing they need to show a big battle but the show's budget has been completely spent a couple of episodes ago", probably on Cameron's truck fight with Vick.

My wife loved the scene. She works in the evenings and gets home about 20-30 mins into the show, so she isn't fully "in the know" on what a Terminator is capable of (she never saw the films!). As each body hit the water, she said "wow..." or "oh my God". At the end of the whole thing, she said "Johnny Cash is just COOL."
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Postby Evil Hobbit on Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:46 pm

The pool scene was amazing. For a moment I thought I was watching HBO.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:48 am

I lost my live viewing of this to Jack Sparrow, so I caught it tonight. Any thoughts on why they mashed two separate episodes together for one finale? Are they just trying to ditch it?

I thought it was a very good finale. Count me in with the weak, because I loved the scene with the two little Reese brothers. I kept thinking there was no way Reese hadn't figured out John's parentage by now. It was a sweet moment and a welcome realization that John IS just a kid, who never knew his father, and who needs a birthday treat once and awhile.

And with that man...Sarah Connor is a lousy mom. Not just for denying him some good birthdays, but for leaving a young girl to wander around downtown California by herself.

The pool scene was pretty effective. Maybe just because that Terminator scares me as much as Robert Patrick. Something in the face, rather than the acting. Yikes.

Please let Cameron not be melted. And let the show come back.
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Postby Evil Hobbit on Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:54 am

There was a lot of Halo in this episode.
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Postby Shan on Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:45 pm

For what it's worth. It may be a really good or a really bad idea.

From IF Magazine:

Exclusive Interview: PRODUCER JAMES MIDDLETON & THE FUTURE OF 'TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES'


Will the T-1000 himself, Robert Patrick, be making a guest appearance on the show?

By SEAN ELLIOTT, Senior Editor
Published 2/11/2008


iF: Since Arnold Schwarzenegger is not really available to do a cameo, what would you think of bringing Robert Patrick on?

MIDDLETON: I personally love Robert Patrick as an actor and we’ve actually studied his performance in T2 because it was so beautiful and elegant and so well thought out. We have talked about him, but we don’t know what that role would be for him, we can’t bring him back as the character he played before, but that doesn’t mean he can’t play someone else. We do want to have echoes to the previous movies; we feel that is an asset for us. There’s a lot of good thoughts towards him so after this season, we’ll have to see how the next set of things play out.
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:21 pm

Screw Robert Patrick. I want Linda Hamilton in some role, where she calls Lena Headey a pussy.
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:47 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:Screw Robert Patrick. I want Linda Hamilton in some role, where she calls Lena Headey a pussy.


SOLD!!!

BEGIN PRODUCING THE SECOND SEASON!!!!
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:46 am

I had no problem with the finale other than the thought that this show might not come back. I thought the park scene was brilliant and touching, not just from the standpoint of John "meeting" his dad, but because the Uncle (whatever his name is) showed more complexity than he had in previous episodes.

But seriously, the pool massacre was BRILLIANT.

One thing though. I didn't know this was going to be two separate episodes, and when they deactivated Cameron my first thought was, "oh fuck this is going to make a heck a finale with Cromartie coming after John and the Uncle while they race back and try to get Cameron reactivated." That would have been really cool, but what we got was interesting.

I like that the season ended with nice character development, and the actual final episode was funny as hell. I really liked Cameron sending the friend in to confront Cromartie, and I loved the prom proposal. We also got to see Sarah do some ass-kicking, which is always fun.

Please come back. PLEASE!
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Postby Fievel on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:52 am

I have no idea where the article/interview is that I read, but in it the Producer of the show said that it really wasn't that expensive of a show to make. Hopefully it gets picked up... and for a whole season this fall.
What we were given was really good. But now, realizing that it's done, it really feels like a tease of what COULD BE a really cool series.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:56 am

Well anyone who has taken a tour of any studio with a backlot of "urban settings" or "idyllic neighborhoods" knows why this show is cheap to film. Just about everything is done on studio sets with little location filming. Leaves lots of room for styrofoam walls to bust through, which don't cost much either.
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Postby RogueScribner on Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:17 am

Yeah, I really liked the finale.

The park scene was moving, which for a show called Terminator means something. The second half was full of suspense and the like. The pool scene was bloodier than I thought it'd be. The last episode really did a good job of raising the stakes for the characters.

My only complaint would be the cheesy car bomb at the end, but other than that, pretty solid entertainment, if you ask me.

I hope the show comes back. I needs some entertainment!
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Postby Fried Gold on Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:07 pm

RogueScribner wrote:...but it's not Bionic Woman.

You say that but I've just watched the third episode and it was an inconsistent, melodramatic, vapid piece of pap. Five minutes of it seemed worthwhile - the scenes involving the Terminator getting a new skin were weird and well done.
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Postby RogueScribner on Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:19 am

Well, FG, I watched the first three episodes of BW and gave up because that show's stupidity level hurt my brain. After three episodes of Terminator, I wasn't in love with the show, but I could see the possibilities and it's slowly been getting better from episode to episode. It still isn't a great show, but recent episodes have had bits of goodness and they seem pretty on track, IMO. Every show has to get its footing in the first season. Some do better than others.
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Postby TheBaxter on Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:29 pm

i guess i'm in the minority for not liking the pool scene in the finale... BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'M WRONG!!! i don't know what other people saw that i couldn't, but to me all i could think of during that scene is how much cooler it would've been on a non-network station where they could actually show a bit of carnage. seemed like a lame attempt to get around the violence.

i did like the use of the johnny cash song though.

the jeep-bomb was a lame cliffhanger, because we all know they aren't going to kill off cameron, and even if they did, it would take more than a car-bomb to do it. we've already seen a terminator's head get blown through a timehole and then rebuild itself from scratch after a much larger explosion... so the idea of a terminator getting killed by a car-bomb is pretty silly. it's a cliffhanger minus the cliff and the hanging.

but i think the real suspense is not what happens to cameron, but the idea that the guy who planted the bomb is right outside of where john and sarah are, and he's coming after them next. we'll probably see him getting ready to kill them in next season's premiere, only to be stopped at the last minute by cameron's exo-skeleton with all the flesh burned off.
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Postby zane on Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:19 pm

RogueScribner wrote:It gets better.

Not by leaps and bounds, but it's not Bionic Woman.


I have only noticed that the show has gotten worse from the intial 4 or 5 episodes not better. The plots and stories on the show just seem so superficial and unimaginative.
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