The "Buffy, Slayer of The Vamp-iers" Thread

[bluebottle]

Just thought Buffy should get it's own thread.

There was an episode on today, one of the first from season 7. When Dawn goes to school, and Buffy becomes the guidance counselor.

I liked season 7, I know a lot of people had problems with it... *cough*kennedy*cough*

but there were some good things. I thought the season itself was epic.

Discuss.

[lyra belacqua]

I liked Kennedy. She was no Tara, but she was a different character than had existed in the Buffyverse and she loved Willow. That was good enough for me.

Can we discuss Angel in here too?

[bluebottle]

I liked Kennedy. She was no Tara, but she was a different character than had existed in the Buffyverse and she loved Willow. That was good enough for me.

I think that Kennedy was different from Tara is what upset most people... I know it upset me. I just didn't like her... spunky attitude. It was like she was trying to be Faith... But she wasn't Faith. (I like Faith)

Can we discuss Angel in here too?

Yes.

[burlivesleftnut]

I was a part of a buffy board for like 3 years, so I am kind of sick of talking about it. So don't be offended if I don't pop up in here.

Good luck though, Spikelicker.

[lyra belacqua]

I was a part of a buffy board for like 3 years, so I am kind of sick of talking about it.

Which one? Same name? I lurked on about three of them, so I'm not going to want to rehash all the old stuff, but I do watch the reruns and DVDs, so I still have stuff to say.

[bluebottle]

Awwe, come on Burl.

Please?

We can talk about other Buffy stuff.

I bet you never talked about... umm... That episode where Xander joined the swim team.

[John-Locke]

Can we talk about Veronica Mars in here??? Who do you think is at the door? I think it's Logan, but it might be the deputy?

Who's your favourite character? I'll have to go for Veronica on this one, which is strange for me to like the main character the most.

[bluebottle]

No- I- There WAS a Veronica Mars thread, and it was starting to become about Buffy, so I-

Jeeeze...

Try to... MODERATE.... and... you just get KICKED IN THE FACE...

[John-Locke]

I was just jerking your gerkin buddy.

[bluebottle]

I know.

[John-Locke]

I knew you did. :'-(

[burlivesleftnut]

I was a part of a buffy board for like 3 years, so I am kind of sick of talking about it.

Which one? Same name? I lurked on about three of them, so I'm not going to want to rehash all the old stuff, but I do watch the reruns and DVDs, so I still have stuff to say.

It's the White Room. It kind of died after Angel went off the air, but the same 6 or 7 people frequent it every day. In fact I totally stole my interweb schtick from a cool girl named Kitsch Factor.

Honestly, when I was responding to you comments about Spike's soul earlier, I wrote out this whole treatise. Then I just fucking deleted it thinking, "Blech, I am not going to have this argument again. Not here. Not with HIM."

Oh and you must not have been on the same one as me... I went by the same moniker and its kind of hard to forget.

[lyra belacqua]

I was a part of a buffy board for like 3 years, so I am kind of sick of talking about it.

Which one? Same name?.

Oh and you must not have been on the same one as me... I went by the same moniker and its kind of hard to forget.

Oh, no, I barely remember names nor can I correlate posters with sayings or shticks. I usually have to go back and reread threads just to stay on top of them. In fact, I usually just find a few posters I like at a place and kinda follow them through the din. Somehow it's easier here.

But I never stuck around in the White Room, visited but didn't like the layout. I was pickier back then.

[bluebottle]

"Blech, I am not going to have this argument again. Not here. Not with HIM."

I- Dont... You make me sound dirty.

[DennisMM]

One "Angel" comment, and I am done with Buffyverse: IMO, at the end of the final episode, the Angel gang was toast. No one, including Illyria, was walking away. Angel's last line was just that, his last wisecrack. So how come they're doing comics set after the last episode? I know you milk that cow until it's dry, but why not stories set earlier in the continuity?

[burlivesleftnut]

One "Angel" comment, and I am done with Buffyverse: IMO, at the end of the final episode, the Angel gang was toast. No one, including Illyria, was walking away. Angel's last line was just that, his last wisecrack. So how come they're doing comics set after the last episode? I know you milk that cow until it's dry, but why not stories set earlier in the continuity?

I refuse to accept that any of them--except maybe Gunn--would die. Well Spike should have died, or perhaps one of those warrior demons could give him some fashion tips, like how Bugs Bunny would give his antogonists manicures and such.

[burlivesleftnut]

"Blech, I am not going to have this argument again. Not here. Not with HIM."

I- Dont... You make me sound dirty.

I meant it in a good way. Like, "I like him too much to start a dumb argument over who is better--Angel or Spike."







Angel Rules.

[thomasgaffney]

Angel is probably my favorite television character of all-time (He even ranks higher than Homer Simpson). The only thing that could have kicked even more ass was good Angel fighting bad Angel. Him turning bad totally took Buffy to a new level of awesomeness.

Truthfully, I thought Buffy should have ended at the end of season 5 when she sacrificed herself and the WB dropped the show (in the US). That's also the time I stopped watching both Buffy and Angel, so I only have vague ideas as to what happens after that.

[Tonay]

(This topic was one I posted on some other forum last month)

(I'm Kace)

(This topic is dedicated to Graham S who is about to embark on a vogage of fantasticness). A Vogage is what we in the Buffy Community call a 'full-watch'.


Dude, DO NOT watch Buffy from the beginning. "But why, sire?" I hear you cry?

Because of this:

KACE'S SEXY LIST OF WHICH BUFFY EPISODES TO WATCH IF YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE, MOTHER:

Begineth Your Vogage with
1. Once More With Feeling. (Season 6, Episode 6, you'll be able to find torrents for just this episode so you won't have to download the whole season 6 first)

Once More With Feeling will make little sense to you. But you'll still love it. Although this episode will grossly spoil the entire Buffy series to you (as in which characters are recurring, which only turn up in one episode, or turn out to be regulars), it's vital to watch this episode since this is the Do or Die episode. Basically, if you don't like Once More With Feeling, you don't deserve to watch Buffy. We don't want your kind. But 95% of people love OMWF more than their undersized genitalia, so it's highly unlikely that you won't like the musical. Oh, thats right. It's a musical. But don't let that put you off, nig.

Episode 2: School Hard (Season 2, Episode 3) (Download the entire Season 2 torrent though)

Now, certain hardcore Buffy fanatics consider the pilot to THE episode for welcome member of the Zone to watch first, since it explains the shows mythology and explains all the characters lives. But I beg to differ. Some might even call me a 'renegade' in this respect. I don't think Buffy really requires the viewer to know the mythology and back-story to understand it. You'll understand it as you watch it. Tis because of this that I believe School Hard is the episode you need to watch next. It's a classic, this one, right up there with Casablanca and Schindlers List (although, lets be honest – even the Less Great episodes of Buffy are more entertaining, thematically intriguing, well-made and excellently written than your ‘Citizen Kane’). It's gonna be useful to you, love, because it shows up another critical character: Spike. If you come out of this episode hating Spike, then YOU'RE NOT WELCOME TO WATCH BUFFY. There, just fuck off. I've seen enough Spike-haters in my time to know that they simply do not deserve to watch this magnificent show. All they do is complain about the character. If you want to join them, go ahead, why are you wasting my time for? Just get out.

Next:
Episode 3: Halloween (Season 2, Ep 6)
Episode 4: Lie To Me (Season 2, Ep 7)

These two eps are from Season 2, which as you can see is the first season you should watch. If you're the risky, dangerous, brooding type, you may just want to watch Season 2 from the beginning, but I would advise against that, since you might be put off by the berry-ordinaryness of When She Was Bad (Season 2 Premiere) - it's not memorable and hardly a classic. Still, it's far superior to even the best episodes of Alias or whatever nonsense these kids watch these days. Anywho, rather than explain the greatness of these 2 GREAT episodes (although not OMWF, Fool For Love, or The Gift-esque Learn-The-Script Great, just Regular, Rewatch 5 Times Or So Great (with buffy episodes theres sort of a heirarchy of Greatness)), I choose to explain why you should choose to miss out episodes 1, 2, 4 and 5 of Season 2. Basically, they're only sufficiently great as to make you enjoy yourself for 84 minutes and 30 seconds (I’m assuming of course that you’ll immediately rewatch each episode once after you see it: Buffy is a such a bubbling, vibrating cacophony of excellence that watching an episode once is tantamount to watching only the first ten minutes of any other show). These episodes won't make you a Buffy fanatic and they won't drive you to make a Buffy fansite (which, suffice to say, you should have already been designing after watching OMWF).

There are some out there who would be so outlandish and brash to even call 'Inca Mummy Girl' and 'Reptile Boy' bad episodes. Do not be frightened off by these chavs, my sweet childe. Those people are fucking idiots.

Next: watch the rest of Season 2.
Then: Watch Seasons 3, then 4, then 5, then 6, then 7, then 2 again, then 1, then 8.

Oh yuss: Season 8 can be found on the web. It was never filmed (you can only read it - and it's in screenplay format to boot), and written by idiotic fans with nothing better to do, but it's a tangible Season 8 which we still love. Yes, it's shit, and yes it's not funny or scary or emotionally involving, but it's SOMETHING.

And in these dark days of the 21st Century, where the 'best' TV show around is Lost (pfft), these few episodes are all we have left to cling on to, my boy.

Note: If I were you, put a notch on your bedpost for every time you’ve seen Once More With Feeling. I insist on this because in ‘Ive seen the buffy musical more times than you’ arguments, I require physical wooden proof from all my opponents. Tip: make you notches small. (I’m onto my third bed)


I hope to hear from you in 144 days time. Till then, my love...

[Pudie]

I recently started watching bufy and just finsihed Season 4 episode 4 last night. Damn good show so far, but I wont be back here untill I finish it.

[Tonay]

Season 6,

Episode 7.

That is when your world will change.

[Pudie]

btw, for those that are interested(or bored) I've been keeping track of what I think of each episode over at RT.

Click here to check it out.

[Malachi Constant]

I've been down since day one and in my opinion it's the greatest television show of all time. I dig the lists of where to start, and agree they are good jumping off points. Yet as a Buffy purist I can't imagine watching it any other way than from the very beginning. For me the show was about growing with these characters, and to me the later episodes won't have as much impact or resonate as much if you haven't journied with the scooby gang from that moment Xander first glimpses Buffy all the way through to the end. Granted some of the season one eps have flaws due to budget constraints and the working out of the dynamic and such, but the innocence and eagerness of those episodes is what got me hooked when they first aired. You glimpse the ambition and greatness in that first season. Watch as you will buy my recommendation is to start with episode 1 and soldier your way through. You shant be disappointed.
As a side note I find it hard to imagine having to start the series on DVD. It seems to me something is lost in the translation. I love the anticipation from week to week awaiting the next new airdate of a show and the excitment leading up to it.

[Pudie]

I think you could start at season 2 and be fine. Season 1 wasn't really all that good. But it will make you enjoy Dopplegangland more, which is a great episode.

Gotta love sorta lesbian vampire Willow.

[cap]

I really have enjoyed all of both series (Angel and Buffy). Probably my favorite episode of both is "Hush".

It was an excellently thought out episode. Lots of fear, lots of humor, all in silence. There are many other very good episodes in both series, but that, in my opinion, is the best.

[Pudie]

I can't wait till I get to Hush. Heard tons of good things about it.

[cap]

I think you could start at season 2 and be fine. Season 1 wasn't really all that good. But it will make you enjoy Dopplegangland more, which is a great episode.

Gotta love sorta lesbian vampire Willow.

I actually started on Season Three. Have seen all the rest though.

I had started watching Angel, so I was more or/less acclimated to the character.

[Pudie]

Season 2 was better, imo. Angelus was an awesome bad guy. And his and Spikes back and forth was hillarious. 3 was still great though. The Mayor was hillarious, but anti-climatic.

[Vegeta]

Both shows rule! Hush is probably the absolute best for a n00bie IMO. Pretty much everyone I have showed Hush became drooling Buffy fanatics within 3 seconds of the credits rolling.

[cap]

Season 2 was better, imo. Angelus was an awesome bad guy. And his and Spikes back and forth was hillarious. 3 was still great though. The Mayor was hillarious, but anti-climatic.

Point taken.

[TonyWilson]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

[Vegeta]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

I agree, Angel is probably the better of the two. More adult, darker, funnier...ect.

[cap]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

I agree, Angel is probably the better of the two. More adult, darker, funnier...ect.

Agreed as well.

[RogueScribner]

AtS was more consistent in its quality, but I think when BtVS was good, it was REALLY good. It ended at the proper time, methinks. I probably could have stood another season of AtS, however.

[MasterWhedon]

I recently rewatched all of Seasons Six and Seven, and I fell in love with this show all over again. There was just so much mature, sophisticated storytelling in there with GENUINE emotion.

Hearing the music roar in that final battle, as Buffy stands up against the First, brought a tear to my eye.

This is my absolute favorite TV series.

[thomasgaffney]

Hearing the music roar in that final battle, as Buffy stands up against the First, brought a tear to my eye.

Woman.

[Vegeta]

AtS was more consistent in its quality, but I think when BtVS was good, it was REALLY good. It ended at the proper time, methinks. I probably could have stood another season of AtS, however.

The fact that there was no ATS S6 is a travisty. They cancel Angel a week after David Boreanz is on the cover of TV guide and the show is enjoying it's highest ratings of it's run. Originally, WB was going to remake "Dark Shadows" and that was their main reason for canceling. Well, we can see that Dark Shadows never happened (thank God). Grrr... Argh!

[MasterWhedon]

Hearing the music roar in that final battle, as Buffy stands up against the First, brought a tear to my eye.

Woman.

At least the guy in MY avatar has a man's name.

[cap]

AtS was more consistent in its quality, but I think when BtVS was good, it was REALLY good. It ended at the proper time, methinks. I probably could have stood another season of AtS, however.

The fact that there was no ATS S6 is a travisty. They cancel Angel a week after David Boreanz is on the cover of TV guide and the show is enjoying it's highest ratings of it's run. Originally, WB was going to remake "Dark Shadows" and that was their main reason for canceling. Well, we can see that Dark Shadows never happened (thank God). Grrr... Argh!

Hollywood execs at their finest. The dumbass probably gave himself a raise too.

[cinephile2000]

I love this show. My father and I watched this film from 7th grade to 9th, it was a great bonding thing and gave us something to talk about on the way to school. So I have a little bit of a personal attachment to it. The sixth season was the worst the second season was the best, and the coolest bad guy was spike. I got a toy of him. He is fighting Marv, I think Marv will win dont tell spike.

[Pudie]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

I agree, Angel is probably the better of the two. More adult, darker, funnier...ect.

Agreed as well.

Im only a few episodes on, but already this is really clear and I'm really liking Angel already. Im sure I'llagree with this in the end as well.

I fucking hated Angel in BtvS though. What a whiney, brooding pussy. Angelus was the shit though.

[Vegeta]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

I agree, Angel is probably the better of the two. More adult, darker, funnier...ect.

Agreed as well.

Im only a few episodes on, but already this is really clear and I'm really liking Angel already. Im sure I'llagree with this in the end as well.

I fucking hated Angel in BtvS though. What a whiney, brooding pussy. Angelus was the shit though.

You'll find that Angel still broods, but everyone makes fun of him for it.

[cap]

Although I loved Buffy when it aired originally (I was the same age as the characters so I identified with it a lot). I've come to vastly prefer Angel, I think it's darker, deeper. Deals with more adult issues and has better villains plus more flawed character (although Buffy season 6 did a good job with real problems). Plus as I say all the time Angel had the very best of any character in a genre TV show: Wesley Wyndham Price.

I agree, Angel is probably the better of the two. More adult, darker, funnier...ect.

Agreed as well.

Im only a few episodes on, but already this is really clear and I'm really liking Angel already. Im sure I'llagree with this in the end as well.

I fucking hated Angel in BtvS though. What a whiney, brooding pussy. Angelus was the shit though.

You'll find that Angel still broods, but everyone makes fun of him for it.

Wesley (referring to Angel): I can't do that. I WON'T HAVE TIME TO BROOD!!!!
(priceless).

[Pudie]

Yea. He did it right away. Oz and Xander got in the occasional jab as well though.

But even on Angel he's less "broodish"

[DennisMM]

Boreanaz seemed stronger on Angel, I believe, because he'd had five seasons of Buffy during which to learn to act. He was pretty weak his first couple of Buffy seasons but pretty good by the time he got his own show. To me, that's why Angel seemed more interesting; Boreanaz was able to give the character more shading.

Completely out of nowhere, but it occured to me again Friday night. Does anyone else feel like Baltar on BSG is channeling pre-John Woo Wesley?

[Pudie]

Angel left after season 2.

[MasterWhedon]

Actually, it was after Season Three. He stayed to fight the mayor in Graduation Day, Part 2, then walked away into the mist.

Buffy Season Four and Angel Season One began the crossovers.

[DennisMM]

Actually, it was after Season Three. He stayed to fight the mayor in Graduation Day, Part 2, then walked away into the mist.

Buffy Season Four and Angel Season One began the crossovers.

Sorry, my brain. I've only ever watched any Angel or Buffy episode twice, and few of those. Whether 3 or 5 seasons, I think Boreanaz had learned a lot working on Buffy.

Now, what about Baltar?

[DennisMM]

bump

For god's sake, someone tell me what they think of my Baltar/Wesley analogy!

[TonyWilson]

bump

For god's sake, someone tell me what they think of my Baltar/Wesley analogy!

Ok but only if you take back what you said about Blade II



From what I've seen (the pilot and all but 2 of the first series) he's going for a Wesley without a conscious performance, and I really like.