SUPERNATURAL -- The Brothers Winchester

[Big Jim Slade]

Aarrgghh! I hate cliff hangers. But that episode was awesome. Truly, truly awesome. And yes, Herc is being douchetastic. Dude, give us a real talk back. Take the TB from "Heroes".

[ottomatic]

damn't I want to be in deans heaven/limbo till heaven with ginger n mary ann+cheeseburgers/beer.Wtf how did LOST AND this show end kinda of the same way!?!?!??!?!?!fuck is the white flash the new fade to black????????

[FrodoFraggins]

I came to the main AICN site to see if Hercules had thrown us a bone, and if he hadn't I was prepared to throw away years of coming to the site by posting about the SN finale in another thread. I was more than a little surprised to see he did throw us a bone, but I wasn't totally shocked by it. So thank you Herc for at least posting to the main page.

Congratulations to Sherm for getting the shout out and getting me to change my mind and post here.

BELOW: Spoilers up to and including S4 finale
------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I basically watched every episode of the show in about two weeks time until I got caught up two weeks ago. I had previously written the show off based on it being on the CW, and was in for a great surprise when I started watching the episodes. Like many others, I think the new actress playing Ruby basically sucks. I just don't think she delivers her lines particularly convincingly. And so I was pretty glad to see what happened to her in the finale.

What I appreciate about the show is that it hasn't made any of the major mistakes like those I felt existed in the X-Files (A show I love but got majorly annoyed with). By the end of S2, SN had finished what appeared to be the main storyline of the show (possibly because of concern over cancellation). Whereas on the X-Files it took forever to resolve Mulder's sisters abduction, and the final resolution was pretty piss poor. Also, SN changes the basic formula of the show each year and aggressively advances the plot. The introduction of Angels into the shows pantheon was pretty interesting.

I was sure that Armageddon was going to be averted in the finale, as I assumed depicting Hell on Earth is just TOO damn big. I'm glad I was wrong. It seems to me that defeating Lucifer is a fitting end to the series. I'm expecting that the by the end of next season, which I assume is the last, the brothers will have defeated all of the big baddies and things will be left open for possible movies or such.

[Big Jim Slade]

This whole episode regarding a true SN talkback and Herc is just more evidence of the staff of AICN being royally out of touch with the needs and desires of its audience. However, that episode was kick ass.

[Peven]

This whole episode regarding a true SN talkback and Herc is just more evidence of the staff of AICN being royally out of touch with the needs and desires of its audience. However, that episode was kick ass.

the main page is a monument....to the staff, i mean, come on, when is the last time the main site resembled anything more than a fan blog that sells out its opinions for ad space?

[Shermdawg]

Season one's finale is still the best.

A lot of disappointment with the main arc this year. They've been hinting at the brothers at odds with one another since the premiere and even though they didn't do a very good job of building upon that by not spacing out the comedy driven episodes as well as they should have, I thought maybe, just maybe, it would lead to something big that would carry over into next season....which it did, but not what I expecting or hoping for. After last week's fallout, I figured it was just a taste of what was to come in the finale, but not only did we not get that, it looks like the most interesting aspect of the season was thrown out the window with that double cross from "Ruby". Thank god they killed her, but it would've been nice retconning things a bit and revealing that wasn't really Rubes. I guess though, getting rid of Cortese was a good enough trade-off of a mega Dean and the angels vs. Evil Sam and the demons showdown.

Also, thank god that nasty rumor that Bobby was gonna get axed didn't pan out. They'd be silly to get rid of Beaver. Hopefully he'll be around a bit more in season five and maybe get a solo episode of his own, though I doubt I'll ever get my long lost son storyline thanks to that little conversation he had with Dean.

But yeah, even though things didn't work out the way I wanted, we're still left with plenty of stuff to look forward to next year. The biggest of which is, where's God? Is he too busy trying to sort stuff out over on Lost? Is he taking a vacation and posing as a human before things go to shit? Thus leading to the Winchesters going off to look for him, and the eventual Joan Osbourne reference? And if they do find him, would Cas be his right hand (right hand) man?

And speaking of Cas, when he cut himself and it panned back to Dean, I was all like "Please don't tell me he's gonna drink angel blood." I would've quit watching right then and there.

[Big Jim Slade]

Season one's finale is still the best.

A lot of disappointment with the main arc this year. They've been hinting at the brothers at odds with one another since the premiere and even though they didn't do a very good job of building upon that by not spacing out the comedy driven episodes as well as they should have, I thought maybe, just maybe, it would lead to something big that would carry over into next season....which it did, but not what I expecting or hoping for. After last week's fallout, I figured it was just a taste of what was to come in the finale, but not only did we not get that, it looks like the most interesting aspect of the season was thrown out the window with that double cross from "Ruby". Thank god they killed her, but it would've been nice retconning things a bit and revealing that wasn't really Rubes. I guess though, getting rid of Cortese was a good enough trade-off of a mega Dean and the angels vs. Evil Sam and the demons showdown.

Also, thank god that nasty rumor that Bobby was gonna get axed didn't pan out. They'd be silly to get rid of Beaver. Hopefully he'll be around a bit more in season five and maybe get a solo episode of his own, though I doubt I'll ever get my long lost son storyline thanks to that little conversation he had with Dean.

But yeah, even though things didn't work out the way I wanted, we're still left with plenty of stuff to look forward to next year. The biggest of which is, where's God? Is he too busy trying to sort stuff out over on Lost? Is he taking a vacation and posing as a human before things go to shit? Thus leading to the Winchesters going off to look for him, and the eventual Joan Osbourne reference? And if they do find him, would Cas be his right hand (right hand) man?

And speaking of Cas, when he cut himself and it panned back to Dean, I was all like "Please don't tell me he's gonna drink angel blood." I would've quit watching right then and there.

Sherm- I agree with you on most things that you said. However, I really think that Ruby being Sam's Delilah has been telegraphed pretty blatantly through out the season. And the last 3 or so episodes have all had that problem. I think they had that problem with the angel rebellion plot line as well. It felt like there was a lot of rushed writing that really detracted from what could have been a phenomenal season. Castiel and Bobby were really the highest points of the season for me, along with some great acting on the part of Jensen Ackles. Now the four months of torture start as we wait for season five. Thank god for dvds.

[edshrinker]

This show has been due for 4 years for a TB. Congrats AICN. Way to stay ahead of the curve

[edshrinker]

AND ...And this si the best hour on TV bar none. Those who have not check it out. And no...I am heterosexual.

[edshrinker]

Dude wtf are you talking about. This is it until May. And yes the Ackles wants out without a brinks truck backed up....but only for a 6th season.

[edshrinker]

Criss Angel is a Douchebag. No more need be said.

[edshrinker]

And BTW...Season 5 is a lock for the WB

[BUFFYWRESTLING]

Thank you Sherm for talking about SN and NOT talking about how talkback has done you wrong. You made the Zone work for you and other fans of the show. And I will do my wing-man part and spread the word around.

[BUFFYWRESTLING]

The next season SHOULD be a lock. If you look at the demos, it appears very low rated compared to other Thursday fare. But the CW doesn't have the viewing range that other national cable networks have. So if their demo is a 1.2, it could be convincibly double that if it was aired on a regular network. It's straw grasping but it was what kept BuffytVS and Angel on the WB/UPN for as long as it did (7 season and 5 seasons repectively).

[Fanboy]

I've been waiting a long time for a Supernatural TB.. I read TB's way more than I do The Zone.. The Zone just seems like the "hip" place to be with giant avatars and huge sigs with no file size limit (god bless Adblock Plus..).

I personally loved this episode. Not as good as Season 1 and 2's finales but better than 3's.

How in hell (no pun intended!) are they going to stop Satan? I mean, seriously, they are standing right there.. are we to believe they just make a getaway on foot? Wait for him to pop out?

What would be cool? Satan arises from the seal in 5x01, Dean tries to stab him with the demon killing knife, it breaks on impact with Satan's "skin" and Dean just kind of mouths "Oh Shit.." then they somehow manage to get away as Satan begins his war on Earth.

What I don't get is..this seems like a total opposite storyline of Preacher. Instead of God being the "bad guy"..it's the top tier Angels bringing out Armageddon to reset humanity..again. And why is Cas still "alive"? Didn't Uriel have a rebellion planned, starting the Angel on Angel violence? Bit of a plot hole unless I'm missing something.

And if Ruby was telling the truth, wouldn't have Azazel been in on it or was his experimenting with demon blood just a very good coincidence for Ruby and Liliths plan's?

Sad we only get one more season they went by so fast. It even has one of the best soundtracks on tv. Dream car? 67' Impala, jet black

[A for Aristocrat]

Obviously spoilers, It was a very good season finale. I still saw the Zacharia and Ruby things a mile away but I can live with it. Bobby's quit whining speech was awesome and one of the messages I love best from this show. I loved the green room and cant believe Dean turned down Ginger AND Mary Ann. Its always good to see Yellow eyes and the Prophet Chuck. The Angels continue to be dicks but its obvious their are different kinds. Uriel's faction wanted to join up with Lucifer and destroy the world. Zacharia's faction wants to fight the war kick ass and create a paradise for the survivors. And Castiels poor little faction just wants to leave the world alone. I dont think next season will start with a Lucifer confrontation. He will probably be a background character until the series finale. But a bad ass angel roaming the world puts Castiel and the other angels in alot more jeopardy. So all and all, very good ending to Supernaturals best season yet.

[Big Jim]

Why did they just stand around at the end? I was waiting for one of them to try and disrupt the blood pattern, smudge it, wipe it up, stick Castiel's knife in it, something, anything, to keep it from forming the pattern that releases Satan.

[Jakester]

I liked the finale a lot as well.

The Ruby doublcross wasn't a surprise, especially once Sam was revealed to be drinking demon blood. Still, it would've been cool if she was a demon gone bad...er, good.

Similarly, Zach wanting to bring on Armageddon wasn't a surprise either, especially when they started hinting that God was enjoying nap time or hanging out at the strip club or wherever He is. I thought they would've wanted to bring on the Apocalypse not so much to bring peace to Earth (because they all seem to really hate humans), but to see if it would get God to wake the frak up. Perhaps next season, we'll see Lucifer dispatched at the midpoint (or sooner) and the remainder of the season will be Sam, Dean, and maybe Cas and Anna fighting against the rest of the Host who want to rule humanity.

[BuckyO'harre]

The Zone just seems like the "hip" place to be with giant avatars and huge sigs with no file size limit

In case the sigs are bothering anyone else, I'll just point out that you can turn them off by going into the User Control Panel near the top of the page. Click the Board Preferences tab ,and then the Edit Display Options section. That allows you to turn off/on avs,sigs,images,etc. individually.




You hear that, zoners? We're hip!

[wixmmm]

hmmmm apparently f-a-t is replaced by 'studly' here... i wonder why...

[illhaveacoke]

I really don't give a shit whether Herc threw us a bone or not. It's just nice to have a location to discuss the show. I watched it since Day 1. Awesome show. Writing is great, soundtrack is awesome and I love the nods to the audience. The show has its faults (like any show), but my wife and I watch it religiously (pun intended). We have to HULU 30 Rock the next day, but such is life. Here's to another season.

The finale was good. Although nothing compares to Season 1 finale. I'm pumped for next season. The Brothers vs. Lucifer vs. Angels = good stuff. Throw in the periodic "monster of the week" episode and I'll be a happy camper. Glad to see Ruby go - love the twist. Nice to see Cas finally grow a pair. I guess God got beat up by a bunch of skater punks when he went to play Skeeball and is in a coma. Who ya gonna call?

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

Which version of Ruby was hotter?

Blond?


Brunette?

[FrodoFraggins]

Which version of Ruby was hotter?

Blond?


Brunette?

I think brunette Ruby is WAY hotter, too bad she sucks as an actress.

Although I think Bela makes em both look just average.

[wixmmm]

and sherm--

I disagree with you when you said this season has had alot of issues... and this is something I'd love to debate and discuss, but the reality is that it would take a full day for me to make my case, you respond with yours, me respond to that and you respond to me. The whole back and forth that make talkbacks great just doesn't work here. I want to be able to debate something like this with me saying four points and you saying four points in the span of two hours or so. I don't want to have to write on and on and need to say all my points at once, because there is no active back and forth.

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

I like Blonde Ruby...

That said....

The demon has nice taste in chicks....

[turketron]

Ha haaa, hoo leeey shit. Amazing the lengths that guy herc will go to ensure there is no talkback discussion of Supernatural, yet as others have said other dispicable things can be said without consequence, as well as trolling (HOW has that dickholster guy not been banned?).

Anyway, just watched the episode and I enjoyed it.

Damn, Lilith's teeth creep me out and turn me on at the same time... they're perfect and there's so many of them!

I have no idea what they're going to do for next season, same as with Lost... and damn them for their use of the white flash!

Anyway, good to know there's one more decent place to have discussion about this show.

1 more season... tv's gonna suck after next year.

[Shermdawg]

1 more season... tv's gonna suck after next year.

That, Lost, and possibly 24, Smallville, and Rescue Me may be ending after next season.

That's like all my shows right there.

[laivine]

Lucifer Rising. I loved it. I love the places that we've ended up. With Castiel going rogue in electric fashion, Dean/Michael parallels and a destiny to destroy Lucifer, after basically turning himself into a demon, Sam staring his own FUBAR'd situation in the face - something he's finally willing to do without scrabbling to find a way to fix it. Zachariah, an interesting presence now totally now firmly on the foe side. Bobby NOT dying. Ruby finally put out to pasture. All of that gives me reason to cheer.

Sam putting the nurse in the trunk was truly, truly horrific. Her screams punctuating Ruby and his talk in the car? That's dark for me. Knowing in the end that the only reason for it was psychological makes it somehow impossibly worse. Ruby just kept him practicing, adding the juice and pushing and playing him until basically he went after Lilith and blew out the bulb. Sam's hubris was truly his downfall. Now I hope he gets to some redemption. It's very Campbellian, but it makes sense. The intertwining reasons, the losses and deals the Winchesters have made from Mary right down the line, have created this kind of internal, familial, Supernatural "the show" sort of fate that plays against the larger mythological concerns of apocalypse and prophecy. I love it.

There were some missed opportunities. Azazel, Lilith, Ruby all on the same page? I'm not sure how that works. One of the cool things was the idea that there were all these groups of demons with different agendas. Azazel never seemed like a guy that was working a huge tapestry of a plan as a result of daddy issues. That Ruby was just a zealot for the cause, and never went off the script, is lame in comparison to some other possibilities. I feel like some of the complexity was shaved off of this storyline, but I think it was done in the valiant effort to get Ruby dead, so I end up okay with it.

Here's some links that you might have missed:
Summer Rewatch Thread on Television Without Pity. Perhaps one might be in order here?

Misha Collins has a Twitter. As one might assume from his personality, it is quirky and delightful.
Jim Beaver also has a Twitter. Ditto on the delightful.

LA Times and Misha (busy guy!)
When Exactly Did Supernatural Go from being Good to Great?
Misha Collins Popstar Interview
Misha in the New York Post regarding Season 6.
PW: Some have even gone as far to say the addition of your character revitalized the show
Misha: That's a huge compliment, so I'll take it. In addition to writing and acting in all the episodes, I'm also single-handedly the ratings' boost. The CW would have folded without me!

PW: Right, it was your idea to bring back "90210" and "Melrose Place" also, right?
Misha: Yeah, they didn't like the ideas in the first few meetings, but eventually they came around!

[TonyWilson]

I watched the last two eps back to back last night, and dayumn, that was a cool ending. Though I was sure Ruby had been playing Sam since the beginnning I didn't know to what end so it was cool to see what her plan was and the Lilith/Seal things was a pretty good twist, I didn't see it coming anyway. And that is a fantastic cliffhanger for the final series, having both Angels and Satan to deal with should make it pretty fucking epic.

[A for Aristocrat]

Good post Laivine. Its good too see at least SOME sites are waking the hell up to what a good show Supernatural is.

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

Anyone care to guess?

I am thinking that Samual Colt made a mini-gun capable of shooting around 1000 rounds of holy hell a minute. The brothers are going to have to track this Infinity Gauntlet down and Dean is gonna strap the weapon on like Jesse Ventura in Predator....

I really hope that self-sacrifice is not on the cards for them though....

[Fanboy]

Anyone care to guess?

I am thinking that Samual Colt made a mini-gun capable of shooting around 1000 rounds of holy hell a minute. The brothers are going to have to track this Infinity Gauntlet down and Dean is gonna strap the weapon on like Jesse Ventura in Predator....

I really hope that self-sacrifice is not on the cards for them though....

I doubt they'll do self sacrifice again. As great as it was to watch both of them do it, they've already played that card.. And since the show's ending and the Crossroads Demon is dead (at least THAT one is..) we can reasonably assume neither will try to make a deal if one should die.

What I hope for is, some kind of happy ending. Obviously evil will still exist when this war is over BUT the life of a Hunter is a hard one as both point out time and time again, give them a peaceful ending: let them both die after stopping both Lucifer and Zacharia. As cool as it would be to know past the events of whatever happens in Season 5 they're still out there kicking ass Hunting.. It'd be way cooler to know they go out in style and get an afterlife of peace with their mother and hopefully do something about their father (he did sacrifice his soul to close the gate right? he's in hell?).

Sad this great little show gets such little recognition.

[Big Jim]

Do the DVDs have the original music, or was it replaced?

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

Did Ruby guide Sam close to Dean's Earth re-entry location in the first episode of the 4th season?

I am thinking that she must have manipulated a lot of these events from a long time...

[laivine]

Do the DVDs have the original music, or was it replaced?

I don't have them right in front of me, but as far as I remember, the DVDs have the original soundtrack. The pilot episode still has the AC/DC, of course, and not the Metallica that was in the unaired version. If you or anyone's thinking about getting the show from ITunes, I'd definitely NOT recommend that. Some of the awesome music cues - in say, Devil's Trap are completely changed. It's hard to imagine the end of that episode without Bad Moon Rising, but the replacement music destroys one of the best moments in the series.

Did Ruby guide Sam close to Dean's Earth re-entry location in the first episode of the 4th season?

I am thinking that she must have manipulated a lot of these events from a long time...

I think that Ruby must have known Dean was broken out by her ability to remain completely calm when Dean and Bobby rang the doorbell at the motel. Dean being out of hell - if she knew that Dean was the only one who could stop her Own Private Apocalypse - couldn't have been a good thing. I think Lilith and she communicated much as Meg and Azazel did and it kept her a couple steps ahead so she could keep manipulating Sam and his reaction to things.

For my part, I have no idea how I want the show to end. I had no idea I wanted angels in the show and I adore them now - so if it's well-written I can probably come to terms with whatever it is. I would like something to happen that pays homage to the mythic clan that is the Winchesters and doesn't let them disappear without a trace.

It'd be way cooler to know they go out in style and get an afterlife of peace with their mother and hopefully do something about their father (he did sacrifice his soul to close the gate right? he's in hell?).

For me, the way I read it is that Mary destroyed her own spirit in Home. She's nonexistent. John was in hell, busted out when the door was open, helped Dean kill Azazel and is now somewhere in the ether being a spirit until which time Jeffrey Dean Morgan has a spare second in his schedule. One of those heaven doesn't want him, hell can't hold him kind of situations.

[V'Shael]

I don't buy that the Mothers spirit was obliterated.

Just beause the psychic yabbered on about energies canceling each other out, doesn't mean anything to me. She was demonstrably wrong several times in that episode.

"your mom destroyed herself going after the thing...to protect her boys, of course." Yeah. Right, Ms. Cleo. You're totally 100% reliable with a perfect track record.

Why tell the force to let her son go, and get out of her house (making it sound like a threat) if she was just going to instantaneously wipe it (and herself) out?
If you're going to wipe something out like that, you come up with some bad-ass last words, and then strike. Right?

As for the senior Winchester, yeah, I got the impression he broke out of hell. Doubtful if he's moved on to any particular heaven-like existence, so maybe he'll make an appearance before the end of the show.

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

I am wondering....

Have they ever played "Highway to Hell" song in Supernatural?

Chris Rhea's "Road to Hell" would be fitting also....

[Shermdawg]

I think Highway to Hell might've been used in a recap intro.

[Shermdawg]

Did Ruby guide Sam close to Dean's Earth re-entry location in the first episode of the 4th season?

I am thinking that she must have manipulated a lot of these events from a long time...

Maybe, but this is the show where Bobby's place is always a short distance from wherever they may be hunting.

[DarfurOnTheRocks]

Bobby is like the Cooter of Supernatural.

Dependable

Unassuming

and always nearby!

[california]

BURN on Hercules!!! On Thursday, June 18th, 2009, a REAL TV columnist, regarding a blog on Brian Austin Green, had this to say about Supernatural, "If he's so obsessed with The CW, why not pursue the best show on the network?"

[bionicvapourdude]

I just finished Season 4 last night... Just wanted to say thanks to the "Dollhouse hijackers" cause I had never even heard of this show until they started constantly talking about it on DH talkbacks. At first it was annoying, but then I ended up looking into the show and it seemed like a cool concept.

I caught up on the first four seasons in the last few weeks, and I really dig the show (esp season 4 where it really seems to have hit its stride.)

[Starks]

Lucifer has been cast for season 5 of Supernatural, with Mark Pellegrino (aka Jacob on LOST) signing on to play the prince of darkness as a recurring guest star.

http://tinyurl.com/kt3oqg

Exclusive: 'Lost' star finds hellish 'Supernatural' gig

Mark Pellegrino's career is on fire. Literally.

Sources confirm to me exclusively that the actor -- who was unmasked as Lost's enigmatic Jacob at the end of last season -- is joining the cast of Supernatural as none other than the Prince of Darkness himself, Lucifer.

Lucifer was released from hell in Supe's season finale last month, although we never caught a glimpse of the little devil's face. All of that will change when Pellegrino (also known for his role as Rita's rather satanic ex on Dexter) debuts in the show's Sept. 10 season premiere.

So, does this mean we've seen the last of Jacob on Lost? An ABC rep couldn't be reached for comment, but here's a potential clue: Pellegrino isn't joining Supernatural as a full-time series regular; his status is listed as recurring. You do the math.

[Trik_Ster]

I don't want to jinx it but there's a hint of a rumor that Samantha Ferris as Ellen may be returning for season 5
Hope this turns out to be true. I really grooved on Ellen.
It'd be great if Ash returned also.
I know his char was reported as killed, but he died off screen, soooo.... maybe he used an escape tunnel or something

[Trik_Ster]

It's official. Ellen is back. No word on how big a role she'll play in upcoming events. But a fan favorite returns.

[VegasRon]

It's official. Ellen is back. No word on how big a role she'll play in upcoming events. But a fan favorite returns.

As does Jo, her daughter.

Some S5 overview developments here: http://www.cinemaspy.com/article.php?id=2846

Nothing hugely spoilerish, but those who want to know nothing going into S5 should avoid it.

Oh, and fuck Herc. I also got banned a couple months ago for questioning the need for a Survivor TB when there was no SN TB. Haven't been back to that shill main site since and never will, fuck them. Vern's site and AIBN keep my entertained enough.

[BUFFYWRESTLING]

S5 premiere tonight! Who's watching?

[BUFFYWRESTLING]

"I have a molar in my hair. It's been a real stressful day." Ha!

CW really likes the word "douche".

OMG, the girl's a fanficcer! Talk about knowing your lady demo...

yeah. "Sorry for bringing about Satan" probably isn't going to cut it.

Wah! Double-cross!! *boot to the chest*

Evil apparently tastes like peanut butter. Don't tell chocolate.

Creepy baby swing. No good can come from this.

Oh man, some days I wish I had that leg-breaky power.

"I don't lie", said the Prince of Lies.

Breakdown of trust. But seriously, who else are you going to hang around with?

****
Dadaism over. Not a bad ep. Some of the dialogue still feels a bit clunky to me at times but the pacing and plot is still trucking.

[RogueScribner]

My wife is a fan, so I'll make sure she knows to tune in!

[Trik_Ster]

unlike last seasons awesome premier
this one felt like an awkward preteen
all knees and elbows