The Zone

by **John-Locke** on Tue May 01, 2012 9:57 am

Not really enjoying Season 2 as much as I thought I would at the moment, having read the book I don't like how they gloss over so much stuff... Take the latest episode with the Pyromancers and their Wildfire, in the book it's said that production of the wildfire has been increasingly hard and that it's some kind of magic linked with Dragons, yet since the comet turned up production is easier and returning much higher yields... I don't see any reason to remove these sorts of details, it all feels too rushed... Where in the fuck is Riverrun? The Black Fish? Catelyns Father & Brother? The Siege of Storms End? I still love the show but I just wish they'd take their time telling the story a bit more instead of combining things to simplify the story.

Oh and The Mountain is now played by a different actor http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0245401/

by **TonyWilson** on Tue May 01, 2012 11:29 am

John-Locke wrote:Not really enjoying Season 2 as much as I thought I would at the moment, having read the book I don't like how they gloss over so much stuff... Take the latest episode with the Pyromancers and their Wildfire, in the book it's said that production of the wildfire has been increasingly hard and that it's some kind of magic linked with Dragons, yet since the comet turned up production is easier and returning much higher yields... I don't see any reason to remove these sorts of details, it all feels too rushed... Where in the fuck is Riverrun? The Black Fish? Catelyns Father & Brother? The Siege of Storms End? I still love the show but I just wish they'd take their time telling the story a bit more instead of combining things to simplify the story.

Oh and The Mountain is now played by a different actor http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0245401/

Yeah, ultimately the series is too big to be adapted to either the large or small screen. It needs a budget of 40 million per ep (more if there's gonna be a battle) and around 16 eps a season. As wildly successful as the show is that sort of time and money is not feasible.

by **Peven** on Tue May 01, 2012 1:10 pm

this is why I won't start reading the books yet. as long as I don't know what was left out I won't be let down, though it does seem as though they are minimizing any magical aspects of the story. not sure if that is for budgetary concerns or if they are trying to keep it more grounded for viewers who aren't fans of fantasy so much as fans of adult dramas with graphic violence and nudity.

I find myself reading between the lines, though, supposing what might be going on that isn't being explicitly explained, and that comes from being used to reading a lot of fantasy over the years. I like recognizing names used as coming from old Welsh mythology and other works of fantasy I have read, which by association gives a magical feel to it even if they haven't shown much magic. I am most curious about the origins and background of Stannis's witch bitch, who or what she is really working for and if it is connected with the apparent resurgence of the White Walkers in the North. at the end of this season I will probably read the first two books to fill in all the blanks, and then wait until after each season to read the corresponding book.

I am really pulling for this to be successful long term, though, since it would open the door for other works of good fantasy to be adapted similarly. I think HBO is the only hope I have of ever seeing The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant realized in a live action adaptation and serializing it like GoT has been is the only way it could be done justice.

by **so sorry** on Tue May 01, 2012 2:12 pm

Peven wrote:this is why I won't start reading the books yet. as long as I don't know what was left out I won't be let down...

This is why I don't love the Jackson LoTR Trilogy...

Peven wrote:I am really pulling for this to be successful long term, though, since it would open the door for other works of good fantasy to be adapted similarly. I think HBO is the only hope I have of ever seeing The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant realized in a live action adaptation and serializing it like GoT has been is the only way it could be done justice.

Big budget scifi/fantasy cable/TV projects seem like they are always doomed to fail in the long run. I don't pretend to know the logistics or costs associated with these shows (vs. a true movie trilogy of the same caliber), but the one big example that comes to mind is one of HBO's own series, Rome. Got great reviews, nominated for a few Emmy's/Baftas/Golden Globes, was being developed for a multiseasoned run, but ran into budget problems, and the writers had to condense future seasons plot lines into the last half season. And *poof* it was gone!

by **Peven** on Tue May 01, 2012 2:24 pm

yeah, the odds are against it, but I think that a series like Rome was doomed because there wasn't enough unknown in the story to be told, everyone knows Rome falls, they know at least something about the history of Rome, and so after the novelty of seeing Romans screwing and killing each other in R-rated fashion all the audience had to look forward to was repetition of that and HBO saw the viewing numbers couldn't be sustained, at least imo. with a series based on a fantasy or science fiction work only a small percentage of the audience is familiar with the material and knows the final outcome, there is a real element of "what is going to happen next", a crucial element of keeping an audience engaged. one of the aspects of GoT that not only attracts but retains and grows viewership is that it has shown that almost no one is safe, there is a real element of tension and discovery in waiting to see what is going to happen from episode to episode, at least for those who haven't read the books. I think that is one of the key reasons why The Sopranos did as well as it did, almost no one was safe and you never knew who was going to get whacked next :lol:

by **so sorry** on Tue May 01, 2012 2:45 pm

Peven wrote:I think that is one of the key reasons why The Sopranos did as well as it did, almost no one was safe and you never knew who was going to get whacked next

That, and outside of salaries is was probably dirt cheap to make!

by **Peven** on Tue May 01, 2012 2:55 pm

so sorry wrote:
Peven wrote:I think that is one of the key reasons why The Sopranos did as well as it did, almost no one was safe and you never knew who was going to get whacked next

That, and outside of salaries is was probably dirt cheap to make!

point taken, but that doesn't account for how well it did with viewers coming back week after week, and retaining interest even after the long time period between seasons

by **TonyWilson** on Tue May 01, 2012 3:43 pm

I'd love to experience the show as a newcomer, but then go back to knowing the books first. Everthing always fells a bit grander to me, more vivid with highly stylised designs for each house/faction. Part of what I love about the books is the way Martin takes you through something completely - Arya discovering the dragon skeletons and the plot with illyrio and varys, in the book there's this kind of wild abandon to her chasing the cat and then finding these skeletons portrayed as much more terrifying and almost haunted/alive whereas in the show this bit is almost perfunctory. I don't believe it's down to a lack of imagination/skill on the producer's/directors part just a lack of time and budget.
There are some truly great moments being brought to life - Brienne dispatching the guards who thinks she's killed the king for example but right up next to that there's the cheesy way the act of killing Renly is portrayed (it's far more sneaky and unexpected in the books). The Arya/Tywin scene we get in this episode is flat out fucking awesome but with the death of The Tickler so early we've also lost the absolutely the greatest moment of the entire series, no spoilers but it's easily one of the single best scenes in modern popcorn fiction from any medium.

by **John-Locke** on Tue May 01, 2012 4:19 pm

It also seems that we won't be getting Meera and Jojen Reed this season, if ever

Who else is going to be seen as unnecessary? The Lightning Lord?

by **Ribbons** on Tue May 01, 2012 5:54 pm

Peven wrote:this is why I won't start reading the books yet. as long as I don't know what was left out I won't be let down, though it does seem as though they are minimizing any magical aspects of the story.

Sort of, but in many ways A Song of Ice and Fire is the ideal fantasy property to be adapted to TV because the presence of fantasy elements in the series (at least the first two books) is shockingly minimal. It's more of a wild card than anything else; these rival factions and greedy lords spend the whole time trying to kill each other, and then every once in a while some magical creature comes along and tilts the scales. That's not to say the White Walkers and the wildfire aren't a little disappointing in their execution, but the success of the series doesn't hinge on it because Martin wants your attention directed elsewhere. I don't know what the odds are of another set of books getting the same treatment, because I think the production costs on Game of Thrones border on being prohibitively expensive as it is.

by **Fievel** on Tue May 01, 2012 8:43 pm

Ribbons wrote: I don't know what the odds are of another set of books getting the same treatment, because I think the production costs on Game of Thrones border on being prohibitively expensive as it is.

If Stephen King's Dark Tower series does, in fact, go to HBO, we'll have to see how they handle that from a content perspective. Surely there is plenty of studly that could be trimmed, but with Akiva Goldsman writing he'll probably cut an artery rather than some studly.

I'm loving this series. Sometimes I feel like I'm a bit in over my head as far as keeping up with Who is Who, but it doesn't bother me and I keep coming back for more.

by **Peven** on Wed May 02, 2012 1:11 am

Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:this is why I won't start reading the books yet. as long as I don't know what was left out I won't be let down, though it does seem as though they are minimizing any magical aspects of the story.

Sort of, but in many ways A Song of Ice and Fire is the ideal fantasy property to be adapted to TV because the presence of fantasy elements in the series (at least the first two books) is shockingly minimal. It's more of a wild card than anything else; these rival factions and greedy lords spend the whole time trying to kill each other, and then every once in a while some magical creature comes along and tilts the scales. That's not to say the White Walkers and the wildfire aren't a little disappointing in their execution, but the success of the series doesn't hinge on it because Martin wants your attention directed elsewhere. I don't know what the odds are of another set of books getting the same treatment, because I think the production costs on Game of Thrones border on being prohibitively expensive as it is.

totally agree that a real strength of the series is the extensive cast of characters that are fleshed out so well and their story lines that wind and weave without being predictable. I find myself rooting for characters that are on opposite sides of conflict and/or purpose because they are not simply filling roles of "good guys" and "bad guys", and with all the mixed loyalties and alliances it makes for added tension which all good drama requires

by **wharto** on Wed May 02, 2012 4:20 am

I'm disappointed that there doesn't appear to be any room for Selyse, Shireen and Patchface.

by **Ribbons** on Wed May 02, 2012 11:05 am

I know, I know, oh, oh, oh

by **wharto** on Thu May 03, 2012 5:11 pm

Ribbons wrote:I know, I know, oh, oh, oh

Could Patchface be left out though??

by **swoop91** on Tue May 08, 2012 6:36 am

So, last week 0 tits. This week 2 tits.

This show is getting better.

by **VegasRon** on Fri May 11, 2012 8:20 am

TonyWilson wrote:. The Arya/Tywin scene we get in this episode is flat out fucking awesome but with the death of The Tickler so early we've also lost the absolutely the greatest moment of the entire series, no spoilers but it's easily one of the single best scenes in modern popcorn fiction from any medium.

Is there gold in the village?

by **TonyWilson** on Fri May 11, 2012 8:30 am

::stabstabstabstab::

by **swoop91** on Mon May 14, 2012 4:36 pm

boring, no tits again

by **John-Locke** on Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 pm

You know nothing swoop91

I LOVED this latest episode, best of the season by far.

by **BuckyO'harre** on Mon May 14, 2012 9:29 pm

I'll take Tywin and Arya over the Showtime style gratuity any day.

Also, Charles Dance needs to be in everything.

by **Peven** on Mon May 14, 2012 10:07 pm

John-Locke wrote:You know nothing swoop91

I LOVED this latest episode, best of the season by far.

reminds me of the way season one ratcheted up the intensity and exposed a lot of what made characters tick over the last few episodes, the tension just keeps building. talk about setting the hook

by **swoop91** on Wed May 16, 2012 2:43 am

I loved Tywin and Arya that was cool, also some shreds of "brotherly love" between Cersei and Tyrion. That felt so out of place and like a one time thing..

Hated Qarth, Wall, Winterfell and Jaime was portrayed like a psycho killer.

And about setting up the hook... :lol:

just wait for it

by **Peven** on Wed May 16, 2012 7:17 am

swoop91 wrote:...... some shreds of "brotherly love" between Cersei and Tyrion. That felt so out of place and like a one time thing..

don't tell me you fell for that act, they even made a point to hold that shot on her face to show her expression waiver for a moment, she was totally trying to play Tyrion, crazy evil bitch :evil:

by **Ribbons** on Wed May 16, 2012 11:00 am

Peven wrote:
swoop91 wrote:...some shreds of "brotherly love" between Cersei and Tyrion. That felt so out of place and like a one time thing...

don't tell me you fell for that act, they even made a point to hold that shot on her face to show her expression waiver for a moment, she was totally trying to play Tyrion, crazy evil bitch

Yeah, if anything it's more creepy than affectionate

by **Fievel** on Wed May 16, 2012 11:26 am

Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:
swoop91 wrote:...some shreds of "brotherly love" between Cersei and Tyrion. That felt so out of place and like a one time thing...

don't tell me you fell for that act, they even made a point to hold that shot on her face to show her expression waiver for a moment, she was totally trying to play Tyrion, crazy evil bitch

Yeah, if anything it's more creepy than affectionate

I thought it seemed like Tyrion was going to go over and console her.
But then, after hearing Cersei speak so openly of her relationship with Jaime, he thought she'd think he was hitting on her. So he was all like "Ewwww."

by **Peven** on Wed May 16, 2012 11:37 am

Fievel wrote:
Ribbons wrote:
Peven wrote:
swoop91 wrote:...some shreds of "brotherly love" between Cersei and Tyrion. That felt so out of place and like a one time thing...

don't tell me you fell for that act, they even made a point to hold that shot on her face to show her expression waiver for a moment, she was totally trying to play Tyrion, crazy evil bitch

Yeah, if anything it's more creepy than affectionate

I thought it seemed like Tyrion was going to go over and console her.
But then, after hearing Cersei speak so openly of her relationship with Jaime, he thought she'd think he was hitting on her. So he was all like "Ewwww."

I thought Tyrion was starting to fall for her act, and part of him wanted to console her, but couldn't bring himself to do so and then that subtle break in her "poor me" expression looked to me like it was revealing that she was just playing him. remember how she said she wanted to see Tyrion suffer from losing someone he loved after he sent her betrothed daughter away, and add to that the clip of Tyrion that has been shown since the season 2 preview where he is obviously very displeased with her, a scene we have yet to see, and I think it is safe to assume Cersei has bad intentions in regard to Tyrion.

by **swoop91** on Fri May 18, 2012 3:58 pm

I read the books, and all, I guess you guys didn't.

That's why I said I loved the scene. It will hold many more implications later.

by **Ribbons** on Fri May 18, 2012 6:44 pm

Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the Internets...

I have read the book and I had no idea where you were going with that. Like you said, there are plenty of people who only watch the show.

by **BuckyO'harre** on Thu May 24, 2012 10:55 am

Since when is cunt the only profanity in Westeros?
Seriously, there was like a 6:1 cunt to cock ratio.

by **Hermanator X** on Thu May 24, 2012 2:43 pm

BuckyO'harre wrote:Since when is cunt the only profanity in Westeros?
Seriously, there was like a 6:1 cunt to cock ratio.

I like those odds.

by **King Psyz** on Mon May 28, 2012 1:19 pm

I gotta say, that was some awesomely graphic swordplay last night. Also, some very interesting developments during the battle.

The hound telling everyone to go fuck themselves and leaving for somewhere "not on fire"

One of the kings guard trying to kill Tyrion, who put him up to it? Joffrey? Cercei?

Stannis is about as comfortable right now as someone getting cornholed in the back of a VW Bug...

Tywin looked PISSED, can't wait to see where this goes.

by **Ribbons** on Tue May 29, 2012 1:33 pm

This week's episode was pretty tremendous. I even felt kind of bad for Stannis.

by **Fievel** on Tue May 29, 2012 4:24 pm

Definitely an incredible episode. A little bummed that Sansa didn't leave with The Hound. I kind of liked his character arc this episode. I truly believed him when he said he would protect his "Little Bird". Where was Stannis's witch the whole time? And did Stannis's Hand-to-be die in the wildfire attack?

by **Ribbons** on Tue May 29, 2012 4:45 pm

A few questions will probably be answered either next week or farther down the road, but as to where the witch was, Stannis left her behind for fear that people would say he only won the throne because of her.

by **BuckyO'harre** on Tue May 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Every ass in the general vicinity was kicked by that episode.

Fievel wrote:And did Stannis's Hand-to-be die in the wildfire attack?

Oliver Onions? I imagine he's drifting through the flotsam looking for his son.

by **Nice Marmot** on Wed May 30, 2012 1:38 pm

Fanastic episode! For as long as I've known this would be adapted, I thought they could never do the wildfire justice. They pulled it off and then some.

They are going to need to knock the House of the Undying out of the park. I can't think of anything else in book 2 that could come close to a worthy, climatic season ender.

by **King Psyz** on Wed May 30, 2012 2:52 pm

Nice Marmot wrote:Fanastic episode! For as long as I've known this would be adapted, I thought they could never do the wildfire justice. They pulled it off and then some.

They are going to need to knock the House of the Undying out of the park. I can't think of anything else in book 2 that could come close to a worthy, climatic season ender.

I'm guessing it does since they're ending the season on that and not this fantastic episode.

by **Brit Pop** on Wed May 30, 2012 6:10 pm

Awesome episode! In every way! Now I know why theyve been avoiding showing any battles in the past two seasons... saving up the budget for that spectacle.

Bronn & Hound dialogue was great... Bronn is growing on me a lot, Jerome Flynn is quite good in the role, but us from the UK remember him from the following - its hard to forget!!!

by **Ribbons** on Wed May 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Brit Pop wrote: Bronn is growing on me a lot, Jerome Flynn is quite good in the role, but us from the UK remember him from the following - its hard to forget!!!

Ha ha, look at him. That's silly.

by **swoop91** on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:06 pm

I ended up hating the show. Boring, slow, not at all like the books... (tempo vise, character building etc)

Story changes were "okayish" but could have been done better i guess

by **wharto** on Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:32 pm

Interesting final episode, wonder how they are going to do series 3? Obviously it will need to be split into two, but even so there will need to be even more changes from the book. Interesting to see what casting decisions they will make for it as well.

by **Nachokoolaid** on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Can anyone explain to me what the fuck happened with Stannis? IN ep 9, he was on the wall, surrounded by Lannisters, his army retreated, and I told my wife, "Oh, he's fucked. Get ready for Ned Stark, part 2." But then in ep. 10 he's back with Melisandre. WHAT?! Nothing was shown or explained. Did he fight through the entire army alone. This is my one gripe for the entire series so far. HAted it.

by **Ribbons** on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:33 pm

"Well in the book..." *pushes up glasses*

I guess he retreated, maybe? Successfully and miraculously slipped the lines? In the book he never actually came ashore with his men, which is how he lived to fight another day. I understand why they made that change because they wanted to give his character more of a stake in the battle, but the confusion probably resulted from not being able to write themselves out of it.

Similar situation with Theon and the Iron Soldiers. More information may be forthcoming in season 3, but in the book Winterfell was sacked by a completely different army. In the show it makes it seem like the Islanders sacked it on their way out, probably because another battle full of new characters would have taken time and money that they didn't have. But it makes no sense for a small group of men who are trying to win the North's clemency and escape with their lives to burn the jewel of the North to the ground while they're under siege.

by **wharto** on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:36 pm

Will we get to see the Bastard of Bolton next series? I'm really interested to see who they cast to play him,it needs to be someone British I'd say but who?? I can't even think of anyone off the top of my head at the moment.

by **so sorry** on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:25 pm

So I blew thru the 2 seasons in the last 2 weeks (thank you HBO Go!).

Never read the books, although I certainly enjoy the genre. I think its a really good series over all. Good amount of blood, interesting characters, intrigue, and boobies. I dig the fantasy angles (dragons, dire wolfs etc). Was definitely tough to follow the names and families and bloodlines.

Certainly Tyrion steals the show, but I think the child actors are really strong…great casting. Joeffry is a douche for sure. I'm a bit disappointed that he's such a charicature of a spoiled brat King.

I think my one big complaint is the insistence of having each of the men characters having to have romantic stories every couple of episodes. Jon Snow and the Wilding woman…totally unnecessary. Robb Stark and the healer girl…unnecessary.

The episode with the siege on King's Landing was the highlight of both seasons. Awesome stuff all around. Not sure why the Hound suddenly found distaste for what he does though.

All in all I'd have to say that as much as I like the series, I'd rank the Rome HBO series above it.

P.S. Theon is a raging dickhead.

P.P.S. So I guess ravens are like Bell Atlantic in this world?

by **Ribbons** on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 pm

so sorry wrote:Certainly Tyrion steals the show, but I think the child actors are really strong…great casting. Joeffry is a douche for sure. I'm a bit disappointed that he's such a charicature of a spoiled brat King.

Yeah, I enjoy the child actors as well, especially Jack Gleason (Joffrey), who so fully commits to the role of spoiled, unlikeable brat when even adult actors struggle with the same thing. Maisie Williams, who plays Arya, is also quite good, although it helps that she is possibly my favorite character in the series.

so sorry wrote:I think my one big complaint is the insistence of having each of the men characters having to have romantic stories every couple of episodes. Jon Snow and the Wilding woman…totally unnecessary. Robb Stark and the healer girl…unnecessary.

Fans and critics of the show have started jokingly referring to these scenes as "sexposition" -- soft-selling all of the fantasy mythology and political intrigue with some intermittent sexytimes. Martin is guilty of the same thing in his books to a certain extent, but all I can say is that the specific relationships with Robb and Jon that you referred to will have long-term consequences down the road.

so sorry wrote:The episode with the siege on King's Landing was the highlight of both seasons. Awesome stuff all around. Not sure why the Hound suddenly found distaste for what he does though.

Sandor "The Hound" Clegane fears nothing except fire -- his older brother Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane shoved his face onto a bier of burning coals as a child, which is the source of his hideous scars. They probably could have been a bit more explicit about this in the show, but the reason he bolted was the wildfire, not the battle itself.

so sorry wrote:P.P.S. So I guess ravens are like Bell Atlantic in this world?

Yes.

by **travis-dane** on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:23 pm

"Robb and the healer girl" will resolve into a huge storyline. But it will take some time to get there, especially if the rumors are true that the third book will be broken up into two seasons.

by **Ribbons** on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:58 pm

You know nothing, travis-dane*

*lolbookreferencelol*

by **so sorry** on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:06 pm

travis-dane wrote:"Robb and the healer girl" will resolve into a huge storyline. But it will take some time to get there, especially if the rumors are true that the third book will be broken up into two seasons.

Well than the writer of the books is to blame then for this silliness.