TheBaxter wrote:quick thoughts...
this was one dark episode. by which i mean, the way it was filmed. it makes sense the dead would attack at night, but unfortunately that means a lot of the battle sequences were so dark and chaotic it was hard to watch at times. eventually i just decided that if anyone important died, they'd probably slow down enough to make sure you knew about it.
biggest surprise of this episode is that nobody very important died.
and last but not least.... WHERE THE FUCK DID GHOST GO?!?!? seriously, ghost finally shows up, goes charging into the army of the dead in the first wave alongside the dothraki (damn, he really must be in jon's doghouse.... i see what i did there) and is never seen again. did he live? did he die? did he finally wise up and just keep running past the dead, thinking "fuck jon snow, he doesn't care about me anymore, i'ma gonna go find me some fresh little bitch to lay down with and sire me some pups, these stupid fucking humans can deal with their own damn zombies!" i thought Ghost was supposed to get some badass moments this week, but a couple of shots of him running next to dothraki hardly qualifies. #Justice4Ghost #WhitewolfPower
TheBaxter wrote:biggest surprise of this episode is that nobody very important died.
so sorry wrote: I guess another dragon died right? Jon's crashlanded, and Drogon flew into the night sky covered in zombies. I have no idea which one showed up at the end.
TheBaxter wrote: she's trump, basically... she's a bad person who does bad things and hurts people, but she's not an existential threat to humanity's very existence.
Al Shut wrote:TheBaxter wrote: she's trump, basically... she's a bad person who does bad things and hurts people, but she's not an existential threat to humanity's very existence.
Wait a minute, weren't you one of the people who declared Trump a threat to humanity's very existence in the politics thread?
Peven wrote:so you're arguing that a world ruled by ruled Cersei and Euron and the Mountain is a better alternative than the Night King? hhmmmm, that is certainly a discussion to be had in philosophy 101 because it goes to the heart of existentialism, doesn't it. the commonly held mentality in the US during the Cold War was that it was better to eradicate all life on earth with a retaliatory strike than to let the Soviets win if they had launched a first strike against us. it was the position of the Russian government to do the same is the US ever launched first. peace depended on it. mutually assured destruction.
Peven wrote:holy shit, you really hate Theon, don't you? i mean, you're a bloodthirsty dude, no getting around it. how much torture does someone have to endure before it is enough? you're right, this DOES go to things outside the show, it displays that there are a lot of real savages left in this "modern" world who give lip service to ideals of forgiveness and humanity but don't really believe in them when it comes time to be tested. in the "real" world you are a citizen of a country that is guilty of genocide and slavery, you use money that has a slaveowner's portrait on it, one that you and others like you forgive without thought for owning other people, and you continue to live and benefit from the wealth that comes from that genocide and slavery and yet I have never seen you say anything about wanting to right the wrongs that gave you this life that is more safe and healthy and prosperous than the majority of the people who have EVER lived on Earth......but you are bent that a fictional character was let off the hook too easily after being given away as a piece of meat by his father as a small boy,his life used as a bargaining chip, rejected by that same father when he returned, brutally tortured for weeks and weeks, including having his genitals chopped off without anesthesia? you're the same dude who was fine with Arya killing people and feeding them to their parent but got all uncomfortable when she had sex. and you want to talk abut fucked up values and morality because Theon wasn't handled brutally enough for you??? it's like someone transported you from the time of the puritans to 2019.![]()
also let's not forget, your boy Ned Stark helped a raping murderer like Robert Baratheon conquer Westeros. you want to start moralizing about what characters in this show do and have done and you're opening up a real pandora's box
so sorry wrote:So how does everyone feel about Theon Greyjoy's "redemption"?
He was a petulant womanizer as a teen, was a complete asshole to everyone but Robb, then he betrays Robb (which indirectly can be said lead to his death), beheaded Winterfell's man at arms (who trained him), killed two innocent boys, sent Bran and Rickon into hiding, did some unspeakable things for Ramsey Snow (under duress though), etc etc.
Yes, he helps Sansa escape. Yes, he rescues his sister (in the show), yes, he stands with House Stark and dies for Bran. Yes, Sansa and Bran give him absolution for his previous sins, but do they have the right to?
I know this is a deeper philosophical question, one that is a real-world conversation, not just related to Game of Thrones. Does a life's worth of creating misery and suffering get cancelled out if you come around at the end and realize what you've done is wrong and terrible, and try to make amends with those you caused harm to?
Peven wrote:holy shit, you really hate Theon, don't you? i mean, you're a bloodthirsty dude, no getting around it. how much torture does someone have to endure before it is enough? you're right, this DOES go to things outside the show, it displays that there are a lot of real savages left in this "modern" world who give lip service to ideals of forgiveness and humanity but don't really believe in them when it comes time to be tested. in the "real" world you are a citizen of a country that is guilty of genocide and slavery, you use money that has a slaveowner's portrait on it, one that you and others like you forgive without thought for owning other people, and you continue to live and benefit from the wealth that comes from that genocide and slavery and yet I have never seen you say anything about wanting to right the wrongs that gave you this life that is more safe and healthy and prosperous than the majority of the people who have EVER lived on Earth......but you are bent that a fictional character was let off the hook too easily after being given away as a piece of meat by his father as a small boy,his life used as a bargaining chip, rejected by that same father when he returned, brutally tortured for weeks and weeks, including having his genitals chopped off without anesthesia? you're the same dude who was fine with Arya killing people and feeding them to their parent but got all uncomfortable when she had sex. and you want to talk abut fucked up values and morality because Theon wasn't handled brutally enough for you??? it's like someone transported you from the time of the puritans to 2019.![]()
also let's not forget, your boy Ned Stark helped a raping murderer like Robert Baratheon conquer Westeros. you want to start moralizing about what characters in this show do and have done and you're opening up a real pandora's box
so sorry wrote:So how does everyone feel about Theon Greyjoy's "redemption"?
He was a petulant womanizer as a teen, was a complete asshole to everyone but Robb, then he betrays Robb (which indirectly can be said lead to his death), beheaded Winterfell's man at arms (who trained him), killed two innocent boys, sent Bran and Rickon into hiding, did some unspeakable things for Ramsey Snow (under duress though), etc etc.
Yes, he helps Sansa escape. Yes, he rescues his sister (in the show), yes, he stands with House Stark and dies for Bran. Yes, Sansa and Bran give him absolution for his previous sins, but do they have the right to?
I know this is a deeper philosophical question, one that is a real-world conversation, not just related to Game of Thrones. Does a life's worth of creating misery and suffering get cancelled out if you come around at the end and realize what you've done is wrong and terrible, and try to make amends with those you caused harm to?
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I go with what you said up until the last part where you said that Bran should forgive him. Well I don't think that forgiveness comes that easily even with Theon's noble behaviours, and if you're gonna forgive Theon, then that means his redemption is complete in a sense. As I said before, the dark spirit that made him do those unethical acts before still lingers and can come out again if situations change. So with that regard I don't think anyone can fully genuinely redeem. If you want to be a good person - already be aware of how hard it is to do so and the dangers that can detract from being so - and just be more determined not to do any bad shit when the temptation arises!
Peven wrote:Bran isn't Bran, he is the 3 eyed raven, all seeing, all knowing. right? he sees the big picture.
are you saying one can't be a good man unless they have been a good man every day of their lives up to that point? there are many in history who have done worse than Theon and for various reasons found their way back to what was right and became good people who made contributions great and small. the idea that a person can redeem themselves through good works and self-sacrifice is one associated with the advancement of civilization, part of an idealism that is supposed to call to our higher/greater sense of selves. the ideals of redemption and self sacrifice are supposed to be cornerstones of the western moral bedrock. supposed to be.....
so sorry wrote:Next Topic:
Has the prophecy of Azor Azai been fulfilled, by Arya? Or will the real AA still be revealed? Or how about this one, the prophecy is never fulfilled, it was just a red herring all along?
TheBaxter wrote:if you thought the Battle of Winterfell was too dark and confusing to follow, it's YOUR FAULT
just like it was our fault for noticing discrepancies in the timing of events last season or the rushed pace. you know what, screw these guys. if this is their attitude towards the audience and the series they've been entrusted with, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that i'm going to be happy with how they wrap things up.
so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:if you thought the Battle of Winterfell was too dark and confusing to follow, it's YOUR FAULT
just like it was our fault for noticing discrepancies in the timing of events last season or the rushed pace. you know what, screw these guys. if this is their attitude towards the audience and the series they've been entrusted with, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that i'm going to be happy with how they wrap things up.
I re watched the episode on my iPad Monday night, and honestly thought it looked better than my Sunday night viewing on a large screen plasma TV. Maybe it was because my face was so much closer to the screen...
Ribbons wrote:I'm not quite at the same level of outrage you are, but the huge, passionate and fiercely loyal fanbase are what's made this show the success that it is. The consistent disdain its creators seem to have for them on the rare occasions that they lodge a valid complaint is somewhat baffling.
Peven wrote:Ribbons wrote:I'm not quite at the same level of outrage you are, but the huge, passionate and fiercely loyal fanbase are what's made this show the success that it is. The consistent disdain its creators seem to have for them on the rare occasions that they lodge a valid complaint is somewhat baffling.
the fanbase did not make the show a success. the people who wrote, produced, acted in, and directed the series are who made the show a success. they don't owe the fans anything, they are the ones who should be owed for making a show people have been able to enjoy so much. the show has earned such a huge following year to year to year because of the hard work and dedication by everyone involved in making the show, and so they have the wherewithall to realize they would be stupid to start listening to complaining fans who just sit on their studly asses and click through their streaming channels to be entertained as if they had anything worthwhile to to contribute. we're talking about the same populace that can't wait to watch the next episode of Dancing With the Stars and The Bachelor. consumers need to shut their traps and stick to what they do best. consuming.
so sorry wrote:I feel like I just watched a 90 minute soap opera with cursing. Not so say I didn't enjoy the episode, lots of chess pieces moving.
so sorry wrote:Greyworm just refuses to die.
so sorry wrote:I thought that Jamie's he's a good guy he's a bad guy back and forth had finally come to an end until he took off like that. But after I think about it, I'm guessing his "I have a lot of hate too" or whatever that line was, was him basically saying he's hateful enough to go kill his sister?? I don't know, maybe I'm reading into it the wrong way.
so sorry wrote:Jon to Sansa: " got a big secret, keep it in-house"
Sansa to Jon" "um, yeah, sure"
Sansa to Tyrion: "so...."
Arya: "hey guys, I'll be right back..."
I seriously thought Messendi was going to rip her face off, revealing Arya, who turned around and stabbed Cersi.
so sorry wrote:They played it up like Tyrion MAYBE was getting thru to Cersei, almost bringing her back from the brink of whatever mental issues she has. Then she "snaps out of it" and beheads the girl. Why, WHY, would she just let Tyrion walk away at that point. She's already declared that there is no negotiations gonna happen with her. She wants to kill everyone one of them. She has the person she hates the most, right there in front of her, with a hundred arrows at her disposal, she could have turned him into a pincushion and checked one of her enemies off her list.
so sorry wrote: Are you telling me they couldn't find some money in the budget to have had Ghost die defending Jon against that ice dragon or something?
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