OK guys, I need advice on a matter of conscience.

The greatest TV in history is being made right now. The worst TV in history is being made right now.

OK guys, I need advice on a matter of conscience.

Postby judderman on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:18 am

I'm a Brit.

I also have cable. Which is nice.

It means that, unlike most Brits, I get to watch Lost, 24, Futurama and Battlestar Galactica almost as soon as Yanks do.

Which puts me in a bind.

A few days back, my cable company, Telewest, was gobbled by Virgin Media. This means that there are now two big cable companies in the UK; Sky, owned by Aussie Bond villain Rupert Murdoch, and Virgin Media, owned by billionaire's row's answer to Willy Wonka, Richard Branson.

Turns out Branson and Murdoch don't like each other. At all. Earlier this year, News Corp had angled in to purchase ITV, Britain's largest terrestrial channel, undercutting a bid from Virgin. Branson cried foul, pointing out (correctly) that Murdoch already has a Hearst-like grip on Britain's media; owning three newspapers and the largest cable distribution network. What he says goes, as whichever Prime Minister his papers support is invariably the one who gets elected. Tony Blair likes to butter him up. A lot. Everybody else, including me, hates his guts. Branson claimed that Murdoch buying the largest stake in the largest terrestrial channel in the land was against the public interest, and reported him to OfCom, the British equivalent of the FCC.

In response, News Corp did what it always does, and faught dirty. My previous cable companies had all paid fees of about $50 million a year to host Sky channels on their basic cable packages (this has a point, I promise you), including their premium entertainment channel, called Sky One. A few weeks ago they jacked their prices up to about $70 million. Virgin balked like Fairuza, pointing out that the viewing figures for Sky channels had fallen 20 percent since 2004, and refused to pay. Yesterday, News Corp cut the signal to every Virgin Media box for all of its basic channels, including Sky One.

Branson, in one of his uniquely oddball PR moves, replaced their blank screens with funny new titles. Sky News became "Old Sky News: try the BBC", and informed the viewer that "They've packed up their ball and gone home."

Far be it from me to buckle under pressure from monolithic corporations. I come from a family of hardcore, old fashioned socialists. When I told my auntie about this, she naturally told me to stick up for the underdog.

But I don't have Sky One anymore.

And what was on Sky One?

Battlestar Galactica, Futurama, Lost, and 24.

Of course, Sky have launched a vicious advertising campaign, plastering billboards with signs screaming "Don't lose Lost!" and "Get Jack Back!" I'm tempted to switch, but then that would be giving in to bully tactics, something I swore I'd never do the moment I left junior high.

So what should I do?
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Postby mistertim on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:22 am

*cough*bittorrent*cough*
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Postby The Vicar on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:31 am

Tough call, but a correct one.

Bitter pill though.

Or you could switch back, but make some sort of offering/donation to a worthy charity or cause, in order that your soul not stink.

Fair trade.
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Postby tapehead on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:39 am

mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*



it's the most ethically correct choice


nice to see you posting again, Judderman.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:44 am

Just a move a to a the America, no?
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:45 am

tapehead wrote:
mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*



it's the most ethically correct choice


But also illegal, punishable by some disproportionate fines as well as possible prison sentence. Let's not go any further along these lines, shall we?
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:46 am

Exact same thing has happened with me Judderman. And Sky can fuck right the hell off. Sky One is a big loss indeed but all the other good channels like More4, BBC 3 and 4 rtc are still available and like others have mentioned; *coughbittorrent*cough*
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Postby tapehead on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:47 am

noted.
some ofthese shows, such as Losr and BSG are legally available online, no?
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:48 am

tapehead wrote:noted.
some ofthese shows, such as Losr and BSG are legally available online, no?


Yes, but you have to live in the States to access them... of course there are means of trickery to bypass how they check for IPs, but again that would be illegal! Copyright infringement!

EDIT: Unless you are only interested in keeping up to date with what they are showing in your country.
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Postby mistertim on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 am

Pacino86845 wrote:
tapehead wrote:
mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*



it's the most ethically correct choice


But also illegal, punishable by some disproportionate fines as well as possible prison sentence. Let's not go any further along these lines, shall we?


Fair enough, but it's worth noting that legality and ethics don't always coincide.....
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 am

I don't really see what the "matter of conscience" is. It's just a consumer issue - if you no longer want the service you are paying NTL for (for any reason), cancel it. If you still want to legally watch Lost etc think about changing to Sky.



Personally, I'd recommend getting a freeview box. (and following mistertim's advice)
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:50 am

mistertim wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:
tapehead wrote:
mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*



it's the most ethically correct choice


But also illegal, punishable by some disproportionate fines as well as possible prison sentence. Let's not go any further along these lines, shall we?


Fair enough, but it's worth noting that legality and ethics don't always coincide.....


Agreed
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Postby tapehead on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:50 am

Damn

Cave in to the will of Rupert Murdoch, then, yeah, that won't feel too much like becoming a corporate whore yet again... no...
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Postby Doc Holliday on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:52 am

mistertim wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:
tapehead wrote:
mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*



it's the most ethically correct choice


But also illegal, punishable by some disproportionate fines as well as possible prison sentence. Let's not go any further along these lines, shall we?


Fair enough, but it's worth noting that legality and ethics don't always coincide.....


Take lawyers for example.....




...WHA-? An angry cow you say? Heading this way?

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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:55 am

In the grand scheme of things, issues of "OMGZ SKY IS TEH CORPORATE PIGDOGS" are anything to be concerned about. If it's that big a concern to you, why were you already giving your money to them, via NTL/Virgin (another big company), in the first place.


Worst. Topic. Ever.
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Postby so sorry on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:58 am

Jeez, that situation sucks over there!

If I'm not mistaken, LOST/BG/Heroes are all available for sale on iTunes (i think its 2 bucks an episode). May not be the ideal way to watch a show, but its legal...
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:59 am

TV shows on Itunes are only available to those with an american credit card.
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Postby tapehead on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:59 am

the ideas of competition and free enterprise are relevant to this question - you could ask whether Murdoch is creating a monopoly in this market. (Plus Murdoch is kind of worldwide, Virgin's media holdings pale by comparison)
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:59 am

You can download eps of various shows in OZ as well, I beleive that it's after the TX date there though, not the US TX date.
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Postby so sorry on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:05 pm

TonyWilson wrote:TV shows on Itunes are only available to those with an american credit card.


wow, you're fucked!
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Postby The Vicar on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:09 pm

so sorry wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:TV shows on Itunes are only available to those with an american credit card.


wow, you're fucked!


That is some phucted up shit right there.

Guess itunes is still bitter about the pound kicking the dollar's colonial ass all over the finiancial markets.....
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Postby mistertim on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:18 pm

The Vicar wrote:
so sorry wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:TV shows on Itunes are only available to those with an american credit card.


wow, you're fucked!


That is some phucted up shit right there.

Guess itunes is still bitter about the pound kicking the dollar's colonial ass all over the finiancial markets.....


More likely it's the way in which the film / tv industry still persist with the outdated concept of segmenting markets by region, even when selling their product on a global network.

Part of the huge heap of lame excuses known as 'Rights issues', anyway....
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Postby instant_karma on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:33 pm

I'm a telewest subscriber too, but the loss of Sky One wont really make much of a difference to me due to some of the 'unethical' methods of getting hold of TV shows that have already been mentioned.

I like to think the questionable ethics of watching TV shows via torrents/P2P is balanced out by the questionable ethics of having to pay £131 per year just for the privilege of owning a television.
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Postby tapehead on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:36 pm

instant_karma wrote: the questionable ethics of having to pay £131 per year just for the privilege of owning a television.


Britain does have the finest free-to air digital service I've ever seen and a long history of great, locally produced television because of this, however.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:38 pm

mistertim wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
so sorry wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:TV shows on Itunes are only available to those with an american credit card.


wow, you're fucked!


That is some phucted up shit right there.

Guess itunes is still bitter about the pound kicking the dollar's colonial ass all over the finiancial markets.....


More likely it's the way in which the film / tv industry still persist with the outdated concept of segmenting markets by region, even when selling their product on a global network.

Part of the huge heap of lame excuses known as 'Rights issues', anyway....



Oh I don't know, I don’t think that segmenting television markets is a bad thing at all. The removal of local content is killing off thousands of jobs around the world. Maybe the release of US based content should be more unified but a lot of the time lag in series airing isn't mealy due to the US taking their time sending out programming. Schedules are planned several months in advance and it a balancing act with local and international content.

The real problem is that the US predominately makes the leading programming in the English speaking world. The fact that the US is the biggest and has the most money means that this will be the way it stays for a very long time. When England or Australia make a show like Lost or 24 and they can manage to penetrate the elusively US market then we’ll see some real changes.

Films on the other had should be global as it’s one of the very few ways that the studios are combating piracy. They need to create more buzz and more of a want to go and see the film near the premiere date (before leaks are spread online), I’m guessing that this is why there’s more emphasis on opening weekend sales then we’ve seen before.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:41 pm

tapehead wrote:
instant_karma wrote: the questionable ethics of having to pay £131 per year just for the privilege of owning a television.


Britain does have the finest free-to air digital service I've ever seen and a long history of great, locally produced television because of this, however.


I agree completely with Tape. Back in OZ the market is saturated with cheap packaged US programming due to the fact that the networks are relying solely on advertising revenue. £113 may be a bit much, but I'd be happy to pay if the level programming improved.
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Postby RogueScribner on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:43 pm

mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*


That's the way I'd go. And have gone. And will go again.
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:53 pm

Apparently you can still get ChallengeTV and Trouble & Trouble+1 on cable.

So it's clearly not all bad.
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Postby HollywoodBabylon on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:56 pm

mistertim wrote:*cough*bittorrent*cough*


SSSshhhhh. Murdoch might have his spies in here. And close us down :wink:
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Postby instant_karma on Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:57 pm

tapehead wrote:
instant_karma wrote: the questionable ethics of having to pay £131 per year just for the privilege of owning a television.


Britain does have the finest free-to air digital service I've ever seen and a long history of great, locally produced television because of this, however.


I don't think any of the BBC content can be considered as free-to-air, since we are in fact paying for it through the licence fee. And as for the actual quality of the programming, I think Channel 4 and it's offshoot channels manages to put out as much programming of comparable quality, all paid for with advertising revenue.

I think the only reason that the government continues to allow the BBC to retain it's anachronistic licence fee rights is so that they can exert influence on BBC news for political advantage with the threat of scrapping the fee.
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:21 pm

"Free-to-air" justs means a channel which isn't encrypted and can be received without the need for a special receiver.
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Postby instant_karma on Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:25 pm

Isn't a television a special receiver? :twisted:
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:30 pm

instant_karma wrote:Isn't a television a special receiver? :twisted:

You're a special receiver.
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Postby instant_karma on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:00 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
instant_karma wrote:Isn't a television a special receiver? :twisted:

You're a special receiver.


You really think I'm special?

Thanks man...sniff...you don't know how much I needed to hear that from somebody.

Anybody...
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:09 pm

This may not be a popular choice, but why not wait until the DVD's come out your way, using the money you save for the extra channels towards that?
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Postby minstrel on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:13 pm

I'm afraid I have no advice on this.

But I would pay BIG BUCKS to see a steel cage match between Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch. And I think many others would, too.
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:21 pm

minstrel wrote:I'm afraid I have no advice on this.

But I would pay BIG BUCKS to see a steel cage match between Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch. And I think many others would, too.

Change it to a Richard Branson/Alan Sugar vs Rupert Murdoch/Steve Jobs cage tag match (w/ Clive Sinclair as special guest referee) and I'll buy it.
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Postby minstrel on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:25 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
minstrel wrote:I'm afraid I have no advice on this.

But I would pay BIG BUCKS to see a steel cage match between Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch. And I think many others would, too.

Change it to a Richard Branson/Alan Sugar vs Rupert Murdoch/Steve Jobs cage tag match (w/ Clive Sinclair as special guest referee) and I'll buy it.


I'm afraid I don't know who Alan Sugar is.

But I HAVE seen Richard Branson in person! I was within about thirty feet of him once! And I have no doubt that he could kick Murdoch's ass, and probably wants to.

I wouldn't want Steve Jobs teamed with Murdoch, because I want Murdoch to lose. Badly. Steve is too young, fit, and wily ...
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Postby Fried Gold on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:27 pm

minstrel wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
minstrel wrote:I'm afraid I have no advice on this.

But I would pay BIG BUCKS to see a steel cage match between Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch. And I think many others would, too.

Change it to a Richard Branson/Alan Sugar vs Rupert Murdoch/Steve Jobs cage tag match (w/ Clive Sinclair as special guest referee) and I'll buy it.


I'm afraid I don't know who Alan Sugar is.

But I HAVE seen Richard Branson in person! I was within about thirty feet of him once! And I have no doubt that he could kick Murdoch's ass, and probably wants to.

I wouldn't want Steve Jobs teamed with Murdoch, because I want Murdoch to lose. Badly. Steve is too young, fit, and wily ...


Alan Sugar - cockney version of Donald Trump.

And Jobs is no different to Murdoch. It's all an image (like the "I'm a Mac" tosser from those adverts)
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Postby minstrel on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:37 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
minstrel wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
minstrel wrote:I'm afraid I have no advice on this.

But I would pay BIG BUCKS to see a steel cage match between Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch. And I think many others would, too.

Change it to a Richard Branson/Alan Sugar vs Rupert Murdoch/Steve Jobs cage tag match (w/ Clive Sinclair as special guest referee) and I'll buy it.


I'm afraid I don't know who Alan Sugar is.

But I HAVE seen Richard Branson in person! I was within about thirty feet of him once! And I have no doubt that he could kick Murdoch's ass, and probably wants to.

I wouldn't want Steve Jobs teamed with Murdoch, because I want Murdoch to lose. Badly. Steve is too young, fit, and wily ...


Alan Sugar - cockney version of Donald Trump.

And Jobs is no different to Murdoch. It's all an image (like the "I'm a Mac" tosser from those adverts)


I disagree about Jobs. He's an egomaniac and a borderline psycho, but he isn't the personification of pure evil on Earth, as Murdoch is. Jobs has actually had his ass handed to him, businesswise, on more than one occasion, and this has led to a certain humanity - almost humility, if you will. But Murdoch has not yet been humbled, and so his twisted leer masks an adamatine blackness of soul and an absolute relentlessness of purpose.

I would pay to see the match you propose if it involves Steve Jobs turning against his partner and blindsiding him, causing Murdoch's black putrid blood to spurt all over the ring and the first row or two of the audience ...

:twisted:
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Postby judderman on Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:37 pm

tapehead wrote:nice to see you posting again, Judderman.


Nice to see you too. Maybe once I've settled in we can have another debate about the nature of morality.

Fried Gold wrote:In the grand scheme of things, issues of "OMGZ SKY IS TEH CORPORATE PIGDOGS" are anything to be concerned about. If it's that big a concern to you, why were you already giving your money to them, via NTL/Virgin (another big company), in the first place.


This is different. I'll happily bleed my veins to the corporate succubus if I feel I'm getting my money's worth. But this is bullying, and I don't like being bullied.
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:40 pm

judderman wrote:This is different. I'll happily bleed my veins to the corporate succubus if I feel I'm getting my money's worth. But this is bullying, and I don't like being bullied.


Image ?????
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:56 pm

I'm with Dino, why not just come to the states?

Wait a sec. You're not Mexican are you?



















Just kidding folks. Chill.
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