The Wire: Best TV Series Ever?

[John-Locke]

"The Hunt" - Before this Major Rawls is shown to be a bit of an dick, mismanaging his department but getting by because of talented detectives. Then during the aftermatch to Greggs' shooting, he actually shows character and leadership, seemingly taking good control of the situation and managing his staff well.

What do you think caused this? Is his usual conduct just a consequence of being stuck in middle-management role?

Rawls is a cünt, the way he acted after Greggs was shot is a rare moment.

Very rare.

[Pacino86845]

I think that scene added a level of depth to Rawls... he may be a gentleman, but he's a gentleman because of his position, which is not to say that someone else wouldn't be a bit nicer than Rawls is. However, that scene in the hospital with Jimmy "What the fuck did I do" McNulty shows that Rawls got to where he is by being a gentleman, so he probably figures he should remain a gentleman.

[Fried Gold]

"The Hunt" - Before this Major Rawls is shown to be a bit of an dick, mismanaging his department but getting by because of talented detectives. Then during the aftermatch to Greggs' shooting, he actually shows character and leadership, seemingly taking good control of the situation and managing his staff well.

What do you think caused this? Is his usual conduct just a consequence of being stuck in middle-management role?

Rawls is a cünt, the way he acted after Greggs was shot is a rare moment.

Very rare.

Perhaps. But he seems to show some appreciation of McNulty again in "Sentencing".

He is clearly still a twunt, but perhaps he shows himself to be more the "reasonable guy" he said he was.

[Fried Gold]

Season Two finished. It didn't quite have the same impact as the first, possibly lacking some of the grit and apparent "realism". Still good though.

Omar's court appearance was a fine thing.

[John-Locke]

I think most people have a similar reaction to Season 2 at first, when you come to re-watch the whole series (which you will at some point) you'll realise how great it is.

How great a character is Chester "Ziggy" Sobotka though?

And yeah, Omar's court appearance is one of the best things ever.

[Fried Gold]

I think most people have a similar reaction to Season 2 at first, when you come to re-watch the whole series (which you will at some point) you'll realise how great it is.

Yeah, probably so. I think, especially toward the end of the season, there are a few threads that pop up which seem to connect back to season one. I'm about to go on to the third season.

[RaulMonkey]

Ziggy rules, and so does his Pop.

"Blue steel, gentlemen. Three and a half inches of HARD, BLUE STEEL!!!"

I'm starting Season Five this week. I hear it's a doozy... I'll wait to post in the Best Fiction Evar thread 'til after I see it.

[tapehead]

The Wire Bible

[RaulMonkey]

The Wire Bible

Holy shit, a glimpse behind the magic. They really knew what they were doing and where they were going before a single frame had been shot--and it's interesting to see how they refined things and took them in a different direction through the making of the first season.

[Fried Gold]

[Fried Gold]

I can't see how TV can get much better than season 4 and am now prepared to accept that it quite high on the Best Ever-ist Scale.

It has had the impact on me, perhaps because of the overall theme of education. If you think the portrayal of the school system is in anyway unreal, then I can say that it is not. While I've not worked directly in an innercity environment, I have colleagues who have, and they would testify of it's authenticity. (Although I do appreciate Baltimore does have it's additional problems.)

I am Prezbo (without the cop shooting history). Not being allowed to really teach, but having to "juke the stats". Shocking how authentic that scene were the teachers are being lectured on "correct practice". I have sat in meetings where we have to sit and lesson to highly nonsensical educational theory which has little to no practical place in school.

Bodie went out

Also, a first for The Wire - hope. I was surprised that Namond actually comes out for the better, as characters tend not to in the show. (only time before has been McNulty finally breaking his cycle last season) You really wanted all his bunch to come out okay.

About to start season 5. I really don't see the new Mayor being able to stay so idealistic and holding to his campaign promises. He's been shown before as someone with ambition and good ideas, but could easily lag off when times get hard. I assume McNulty will end up dead at some point as he's back on the Major Crime Unit again.

[Fried Gold]

I'm up to The Dickensian Aspect...I can't work out whether Season Five of The Wire is unravelling or what.

Freamon & McNulty's imaginary serial killer, the journalist who's making up imaginary stories about the imaginary serial killer...

"SSHEEEIIIT's" getting longer and longer every time they're heard...

It all just seems a bit unreal for The Wire. I'm struggling to see what the objective is here, or are they mirroring the dissarray of the Major Crime Unit in the storytelling?

Nice callback to season two though finally.

[John-Locke]

I seem to remember a throwback to season 2 in season 4, didn't Nick Sobotka appear at some thing the Mayor was opening or something? The Season 5 thing you are referring to is a homeless guy who worked on the docks yes?

[TonyWilson]

Season 5 is like a coda to the rest of the show, it's definitely more blackly comic in it's situations and a bit more meta than the previous seasons as the newspaper storyline means the very idea of commentating on sociey's breakdown comes to the fore. I was really thrown by it to begin with but like most everything else it pays off in remarkable ways in later episodes and the theme of the entire series is examined from another angle.

[stereosforgeeks]

Season 5 is like a coda to the rest of the show, it's definitely more blackly comic in it's situations and a bit more meta than the previous seasons as the newspaper storyline means the very idea of commentating on sociey's breakdown comes to the fore. I was really thrown by it to begin with but like most everything else it pays off in remarkable ways in later episodes and the theme of the entire series is examined from another angle.

The newspaper characters just fell flat for me. There were a couple good ones but of the time they juct came across as cliche. Plot wise it worked it just wasn't all that interesting to watch.

[Fried Gold]

Season 5 is like a coda to the rest of the show, it's definitely more blackly comic in it's situations and a bit more meta than the previous seasons as the newspaper storyline means the very idea of commentating on sociey's breakdown comes to the fore. I was really thrown by it to begin with but like most everything else it pays off in remarkable ways in later episodes and the theme of the entire series is examined from another angle.

The newspaper characters just fell flat for me. There were a couple good ones but of the time they juct came across as cliche. Plot wise it worked it just wasn't all that interesting to watch.

I was surprised some of the press characters weren't introduced somewhere (perhaps during the Hamsterdam coverage) before coming to the forefront in season 5.

[TonyWilson]

Yeh I have to agree that as characters there wasn't any one compelling character. I know Gus gets stick for being sanctimonious but I'm sure that's intentional and it does give him another side, but Alma and Templeton are cyphers really. I guess with every other character being so richly drawn there wasn't time in ten episodes (HBO's fault I suspect) to flesh out the newsroom anymore than it was. And I'm also sympathetic to Simon's argument that the newspaper storyline should only be about what goes at the paper and not the homelives of the reporters. Ultimately it's the major weak link in the entire show and coming at the end it's not quite so crucially damaging but disappointing nevertheless.

[Fried Gold]

Fark me....was I not expecting Omar to go out then.

[John-Locke]

It leaves you feeling a little cold eh? I think it's one of the most fitting endings to a great character possible, he didn't go out in a blaze of glory, he didn't even know it was happening, taken out by the least likely of suspects who is just another kid who the system failed.

[TonyWilson]

Who was also one of the kids that Bunk saw playing at being Omar in season 3 after his female accomplice was killed and which led to possibly the best moment on the show where Bunk confronts Omar about his role in destroying their community.

[Fried Gold]

The penultimate episode - "Late Editions" - pretty much blows the socks off of anything else ever. One would assume that most of that story would've gone down in the finale, so I can only guess what is to come in that.

And it somewhat mindblowing the way that Herc is now with Levy, who's linked to Marlo, and to Clay Davis, who's passing info to Lester, who's partially confessing to Daniels, who's in leagues with Pearlman, who's now kinda mixed up in the illegal wiretaps, which are making Greggs all pissy, who's laying things down for Carver, who used to be the partner of Herc, who's now with Levy............

The pressroom stuff is still leaving me slightly cold. Gus is fairly interesting character and his hunt on for the lying reporter is actually quite tight now at the end. Could've just done with more episodes, in The Wire fashion, to build up.

[John-Locke]

40 minute Interview with David Simon

It's the uncut video footage so is a little rough in places but well worth the time, this isn't as much about The Wire as it is about Baltimore and the US and the War on Drugs and his real life experiences before becoming a writer for TV. Great stuff.

[papalazeru]

Good interview.

Just finished The wire. Loved it.

[DaleTremont]

Who was also one of the kids that Bunk saw playing at being Omar in season 3 after his female accomplice was killed and which led to possibly the best moment on the show where Bunk confronts Omar about his role in destroying their community.

I really liked how in the special features they have a segment where they ask all the people involved in the show what their favorite scene and character was. I remember that one was very popular, as of course was the one with Bunk and McNulty investigating a crime scene using only variations on "fuck."

I have to say one of my favorite scenes is the part where McNulty goes to that FBI guy whose doing a profile on the "serial killer" and he describes McNulty to a t and listening to it you can see him go from bemused to uncomfortable to offended

[TonyWilson]

Yeah, Dale that's a great scene, and it's so funny. I think McNulty probably got told all that by Lester and his ex-wife but he's such an arrogant fucker he only recognises it when it's one place removed from him.

[papalazeru]

"It's not what you're takin' , it's who you're takin' it from"

Best line of the show.

[Ribbons]

Study "The Wire" at Harvard?

http://www.pedestrian.tv/news/view/3471/study-the-wire-at-harvard-.htm

[travis-dane]

Just finished my three day marathon of seasons 4 and 5 .
Damn, this is a good show. It makes me sad it is over.
After seeing Stringer go in season three, I knew everything is possible.
I really enjoyed the Carcetti storyline, the actor did a great job. It showed really well how power can ruin good intensions.
It was sad to see Daniels take the fall after he was in a position to really change something.
I wished for a more fitting end for Marlo, the fucker got off cheap.
But in the end, everything was right back to square one. The wheel just keeps spining.
Great show, great story, great actors.
Thanks HBO for going 5 seasons.

[Pacino86845]

At least we got five quality seasons, and the show has a poetic ending as you said. The fact that it makes us want to see more is probably a good thing.

[travis-dane]

At least we got five quality seasons, and the show has a poetic ending as you said. The fact that it makes us want to see more is probably a good thing.

True dat!

[Fried Gold]

It's been brought to my attention that Omar apparently doesn't swear at all during any episode. Anyone know if this is true?


(I am now going back to season 1 for a rewatch.)

[John-Locke]

Yeah I think thats right, Omar never swears, he's good to his Grandmother and only shoots people who sorta deserve it or have it coming through their line of work, don't forget he gives a lot of his stick-up money to Butchie too who probably uses it to fund various community projects or something.

[TonyWilson]

I believe he says "bullshit" once during his first or second appearance, a slight error or ad lib before Williams was familiar with the character. But yeah apart from that; no swearing because he's free from systems that constantly frustrate and anger him, and when he collides with such a system he never has to play by it's rules.

[Fried Gold]

UK'ers:

If you have a The Works store near to you, they're selling hardback copies of Rafael Alvarez' "The Wire: Truth Be Told" for £4 at the moment.

[papalazeru]

Just rewatching The Wire once more.

Season 3 is still my possible favourite. Don't get me wrong, it's all good but I find Season 2 the weakest, possibly because of the disconnection of character. Then again, maybe that's what makes S3 so great?

[stereosforgeeks]

Just rewatching The Wire once more.

Season 3 is still my possible favourite. Don't get me wrong, it's all good but I find Season 2 the weakest, possibly because of the disconnection of character. Then again, maybe that's what makes S3 so great?

Season 4 is my favorite its like an emotional suckerpunch. Im going to try to watch the whole series again with my fiancee shortly.

[Pacino86845]

4 is my favorite as well, but I don't get what you mean papa when you say "disconnect of character" regarding season 2?

The thing with 2 is that it takes attention away from our favorite wiretappers, but the Sobotka's are fully fleshed out characters. Season 2 is easy to pick on because it stands so far apart from the other seasons, but in terms of writing it was a bold move.

The real "weak" season was the last one, 5... *SPOILER* Omar went out like a punk! But that's not what makes it weak... McNulty's whole scheme was leaning on the far-fetched side, I think Dave Simon was stretching a bit too far to make his point about the media...

[stereosforgeeks]

The real "weak" season was the last one, 5... *SPOILER* Omar went out like a punk! But that's not what makes it weak... McNulty's whole scheme was leaning on the far-fetched side, I think Dave Simon was stretching a bit too far to make his point about the media...

The Newspaper characters felt ridiculously cliched and like Simon wasnt really saying anything new in regards to print media. It feels more like Simon was still pissed off at his past in that arena and it gave him a place to bitch, but instead of coming up wioth something interesting we get ideas thrown around for decades in regards to journalistic integrity.

[papalazeru]

Just rewatching The Wire once more.

Season 3 is still my possible favourite. Don't get me wrong, it's all good but I find Season 2 the weakest, possibly because of the disconnection of character. Then again, maybe that's what makes S3 so great?

Season 4 is my favorite its like an emotional suckerpunch. Im going to try to watch the whole series again with my fiancee shortly.

I'm quickly catching up to Season 4 so I may just change my mind when I get to it.

[TonyWilson]

The real "weak" season was the last one, 5... *SPOILER* Omar went out like a punk! But that's not what makes it weak... McNulty's whole scheme was leaning on the far-fetched side, I think Dave Simon was stretching a bit too far to make his point about the media...

The Newspaper characters felt ridiculously cliched and like Simon wasnt really saying anything new in regards to print media. It feels more like Simon was still pissed off at his past in that arena and it gave him a place to bitch, but instead of coming up wioth something interesting we get ideas thrown around for decades in regards to journalistic integrity.

I guess this is true but it's meant to be based on a specific instance of a report at The Baltimore Sun making up details, people and stories right? So while it's not particularly original it's still relevant. I think the bigger problem with the newspaper storyline is that there wasn't enough time spent on fleshing out the characters that worked there, in 10 episodes with some huge long range stories to wrap I can understand why that happened but it's still a bit of a bummer.
I've grown to love the McNulty serial killer plotline on subsequent watches because it give the whole season such a blackly comic feel and that sort of black bitter satire is sometimes the only reaction left to the myriad fuckedupness going on everywhere else in the show and in life.

[papalazeru]

The real "weak" season was the last one, 5... *SPOILER* Omar went out like a punk! But that's not what makes it weak... McNulty's whole scheme was leaning on the far-fetched side, I think Dave Simon was stretching a bit too far to make his point about the media...

The Newspaper characters felt ridiculously cliched and like Simon wasnt really saying anything new in regards to print media. It feels more like Simon was still pissed off at his past in that arena and it gave him a place to bitch, but instead of coming up wioth something interesting we get ideas thrown around for decades in regards to journalistic integrity.

I guess this is true but it's meant to be based on a specific instance of a report at The Baltimore Sun making up details, people and stories right? So while it's not particularly original it's still relevant. I think the bigger problem with the newspaper storyline is that there wasn't enough time spent on fleshing out the characters that worked there, in 10 episodes with some huge long range stories to wrap I can understand why that happened but it's still a bit of a bummer.
I've grown to love the McNulty serial killer plotline on subsequent watches because it give the whole season such a blackly comic feel and that sort of black bitter satire is sometimes the only reaction left to the myriad fuckedupness going on everywhere else in the show and in life.

On my first watch, I also enjoyed McNulty's story arc but it was Lesters reaction which got me and how he goes along with it.

[TonyWilson]

hah, yes papa. And Bunk's reaction to Lester's reaction is pricelsss.

[stereosforgeeks]

The real "weak" season was the last one, 5... *SPOILER* Omar went out like a punk! But that's not what makes it weak... McNulty's whole scheme was leaning on the far-fetched side, I think Dave Simon was stretching a bit too far to make his point about the media...

The Newspaper characters felt ridiculously cliched and like Simon wasnt really saying anything new in regards to print media. It feels more like Simon was still pissed off at his past in that arena and it gave him a place to bitch, but instead of coming up wioth something interesting we get ideas thrown around for decades in regards to journalistic integrity.

I guess this is true but it's meant to be based on a specific instance of a report at The Baltimore Sun making up details, people and stories right? So while it's not particularly original it's still relevant. I think the bigger problem with the newspaper storyline is that there wasn't enough time spent on fleshing out the characters that worked there, in 10 episodes with some huge long range stories to wrap I can understand why that happened but it's still a bit of a bummer.
I've grown to love the McNulty serial killer plotline on subsequent watches because it give the whole season such a blackly comic feel and that sort of black bitter satire is sometimes the only reaction left to the myriad fuckedupness going on everywhere else in the show and in life.

Yeah it is relevant. You are right about the characters not having enough depth to pull it off as well as it could have been.

[papalazeru]

Yeah it is relevant. You are right about the characters not having enough depth to pull it off as well as it could have been.

...but they work in media.

[Fried Gold]

Series 5 was the weakest, but even a weak Wire is better than most other TV. Partly it seemed odd to introduce so many new characters toward the end, (It may have worked better if they'd used the reporter character from the Hamsterdam story perhaps), and McNulty's scheme seemed to just be too over the top and it didn't make entire sense that Lester would go along with it (even though he has less to risk).

I suppose coming off the back of series 4, they were always going to struggle to top it.

[Seppuku]

I rewatched it again recently and the melodramatic and formulaic elements were a bit more grating this time. Is there such a thing as an HBO series that doesn't end with a soft rock montage? Still the best of its breed that I've seen, I suppose.

Ziggy=Zahn?

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

Don't you guys actually have lives to get on with rather than spend 300 hours watching TV?

I quote Cpt Kirks 2pay - "I prefer making films, than watching them".

Everyone should think this way, even though it would make filmmakers redundant.

[papalazeru]

Just got through watching the Wire series again.

I have to say, I think the last season is where Simons is the strongest. Unfortunately it unbinds the best elements of the show.

The characters are still wonderfuly portrayed but I don't get where half of them come from?

[Ribbons]

'Bout to start season 4 of The Wire as well. Probably not gonna be as awesome as Alias, but hey, what can you do?

[Ribbons]

Wow.

Great season, but so, SO depressing. Bodie! One of the toughest things to watch was Michael's evolution from schoolboy to hitman for Marlo Stanfield. And I never would have guessed at the beginning of the season that Namond was the kid with the best chance of not growing up to be a piece of shit. Duquan is another Bubbles waiting to happen and Randy will be lucky if he even makes it out of group home.