The Zone

by **DennisMM** on Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:11 pm

With all that makeup, though, she hardly looks like herself!

by **Ribbons** on Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:07 am

Well, after watching all of season 1 on DVD, I have to say I'm glad the show is coming back for at least one more season and excited to see where it goes. I've heard a lot of people say it's Whedon's weakest work by far, but I thought it was pretty consistently good the whole time. Although I can see getting frustrated with the episodes if you have to wait for new ones every week or two, so maybe it just plays better on DVD.

I also think it's kind of fun to see the actors who play the "dolls" basically do a different character almost every week, and Victor and Sierra (both of whose real names I don't remember how to spell) show a lot of range in that regard. My main complaint, and it's kind of a big one, is that Eliza Dushku, who's supposed to carry the show, is clearly the least versatile.

by **DanielSan** on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:51 pm

Season 2 starts tonight! Don't forget!

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:01 pm

DanielSan wrote:Season 2 starts tonight! Don't forget!

I'm excited.

It took awhile for this show to build momentum for me, which is actually pretty consistent with Whedon's other work (with the exception of Firefly, which grabbed me right away...dammit). Buffy and Angel each were well into Season 2 before I was really invested...then completely obsessed. Here it happened a little faster, and by the end of Season 1 i was really enjoying the characters and the storyline and I'm anxious to see where it goes.

by **TonyWilson** on Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:51 pm

Agreed, Moo. I nearly stopped watching after I realised what episode 3 was going to be about but then I came back on board for Man On The Street and was impressed, I thought the finale that aired was a little weak (Alpha woulda been cooler as a true product of the process rather than a serial killer made really smart), but as I said after watching Epitaph One I think Dollhouse has the potential to be as rich and as mindfucking as Lost. Fingers crossed for tonight then.

by **Maui** on Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:43 pm

DanielSan wrote:Season 2 starts tonight! Don't forget!

I plan on watching this tonight - my DVR recorded it last night.

I still need to watch that episode that was never aired.

by **papalazeru** on Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:35 am

Hmmmm...Lots of development to play catch up with but I was really hoping that they would have continued with the future for a bit longer.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:51 pm

papalazeru wrote:Hmmmm...Lots of development to play catch up with but I was really hoping that they would have continued with the future for a bit longer.

Why would you have that expectation considering only people who watched the DVDs or downloaded the episode even saw it?

I thought the premier all right. Not spectacular, but interesting. I really don't have much to say about it.

by **papalazeru** on Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:58 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Hmmmm...Lots of development to play catch up with but I was really hoping that they would have continued with the future for a bit longer.

Why would you have that expectation considering only people who watched the DVDs or downloaded the episode even saw it?

I thought the premier all right. Not spectacular, but interesting. I really don't have much to say about it.

I was hoping they'd continue it because it's was a real curve ball, taking the show way which I really loved. As I live in England, I had no idea whether they aired the last ep before season 2 began or not.

It was just alright, needs some more of those POW! moments that caught you off guard on Season 1.

by **Ribbons** on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:02 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet in the thread, but I've read a couple article/interview things where Whedon indicates that they DO plan on returning to the future timeline sometime during the second season, but probably not until fairly late in the game. They thought about beginning the season in the future, but decided that the timing wasn't right, or whatever.

by **Nick** on Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:31 am

Ribbons wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned yet in the thread, but I've read a couple article/interview things where Whedon indicates that they DO plan on returning to the future timeline sometime during the second season, but probably not until fairly late in the game. They thought about beginning the season in the future, but decided that the timing wasn't right, or whatever.

Another season where the first few episodes suck and Whedon has to promise everyone that the later episodes will be better. I would much rather see this show take a more serial approach instead of these boring episode-by-episode 'missions'

by **Ribbons** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:34 am

5 Reasons It Sucks Being a Joss Whedon Fan

by **papalazeru** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:07 pm

Ribbons wrote:5 Reasons It Sucks Being a Joss Whedon Fan

That's pretty funny shit but they forgot one of the main reaons...

6. When Whedons shows generally get good...their are not enough people watch them and they get canned.

7. Whedon keeps going back to Fox who tear him a new one each time.

by **tfactor** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:41 pm

papalazeru wrote:
Ribbons wrote:5 Reasons It Sucks Being a Joss Whedon Fan

That's pretty funny shit but they forgot one of the main reaons...

6. When Whedons shows generally get good...they not enough people watch them and they get canned.

7. Whedon keeps going back to Fox who tear him a new one each time.

On this day let us remember MasterWhedon (the zoner, not the ginger Director) for all that he contributed to the Zone, and all that he taught us with his bulking mod muscles and lazershooting eyes. *sniffle* ... those were the days, do you remember?

And let us say "horse crap" to the comments in this article about Whedon fans being like Trekies because we knew one of the biggest, perhaps the biggest. He was never a total tool and though mostly an ignorant slut - he was still a pretty cool cat to have known. Plus if I remember correctly - he only had really that one total geekish debate about the ultimate Jedi vs Xmen battle and I think everyone agreed ... the x-men won!

Do I think we will ever have him jump back in here to through out a random ZZzzttthhhwwwwaaacckkkk just for old times sake? Perhaps... *waits*

>>Threadjack finished<<

On Dollhouse, I don't know we stopped watching this a while back due to too many shows and limited DVR ability. But its on the radar for spring 2010 as a summer season DVD rental. I'll stop typing now

by **RogueScribner** on Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:06 am

I'm a Whedon fan and some of that last rings true. But I don't think Whedonites are as crazy as Trekkies or Warsies (or whatever they're called). Browncoats, maybe, but not just general fans of Joss Whedon.

And Whedon didn't go back to Fox. He went back to Eliza Dushku who had a deal with Fox. Dollhouse is his favor to her (though ironically she's the weakest link in the show).

by **Maui** on Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:42 pm

I watched this faithfully last year, put up with the 2 x 4 acting of Dushku because it's Whedon, something truly wonderful should be happening, right? I've recorded all the episodes so far this season, but I'm just not too excited about watching them. There are so many great TV shows on right now, so watching Dollhouse just seems kinda meh to me. I suppose on a rainy day, I'll do a Dollhouse marathon and get caught up BUT judging by some of the posts in this thread, it would appear you guys aren't too excited about what you've seen so far.

by **Vegeta** on Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:29 pm

Episode 2.1 was good
Episode 2.2 was meh
Episode 2.3 was interesting and had some fun acting.

I don't really know what everyone is talking about with Eliza being a terrible actress. I don't think she's bad at all. Granted, there are some better actors on the show, but I think saying she's the weak link is bullshit.

by **Nick** on Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:07 pm

Herc says tonight's episode is a lot better

by **TonyWilson** on Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:31 am

Holy crap, what a dark and brilliant episode that was. If the rest of the season (if we ever get to see it) is like that, Dollhouse will be the best show on network TV by a mile, even Lost struggles to be so audacious and meaningful as "Belonging" and "Epitaph One".

by **Nick** on Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:19 pm

Right... if only every episode didn't have Eliza Dushku this show would be awesome

I pretty much watch this show exclusively for Topher and Adelle anyways. They are by far the most interesting characters.

Oh, and finding out Topher is a doctor was another facepalm moment, just like the "we even have a black president" line last season. Fran Kranz is like 26 and doesn't look any older so there is some Doogie Howser shit going on there.

by **DennisMM** on Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:19 pm

That was, apart from "Epitaph One," by far my favorite episode of "Dollhouse."

Fran Kranz did well. That he's young-looking doesn't bother me; we have an absent Zoner who finished med school at 23, if memory serves, and Topher apparently has never practiced. If he started college at 15 or 16 it's even more believable that he could finish his med work and go right into his practical electronics. Topher is supposed to be an enfant terrible and a prodigy at once, after all. I've seen worse age issues on TV. Tom Welling is playing ten years younger than his actual age.

The episode was helped greatly by the minimal presence of Eliza Dushku and the absence of the wooden (though sometimes likable) Tahmoh Penikett. Dichen Lachman's Sierra has always struck me as far more interesting than Echo, even when they're wiped. Harry Lennix also is far more accomplished than Penikett. The abbreviated scenes with Echo and Boyd were effective at moving along the storyline toward "Epitaph One."

by **Nick** on Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:37 pm

I wonder what the DVR numbers are going to be on this episode. It got a lot of really good buzz after the airing.

by **RogueScribner** on Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:07 am

This ep kicked ass. Anyone who dismisses Dollhouse as a show about whores or a series that hits the reset button every week is missing the point--and obviously not watching the show. Gorram it! I hope there's some sense of closure when they finish their 13. No way they're getting a back 9. *sigh*

by **RogueScribner** on Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:08 am

Remember when Fox was saying that Dollhouse would air on Tuesdays after 24? Those were happy days . . .

by **Nick** on Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:54 pm

RogueScribner wrote:This ep kicked ass. Anyone who dismisses Dollhouse as a show about whores or a series that hits the reset button every week is missing the point--and obviously not watching the show. Gorram it! I hope there's some sense of closure when they finish their 13. No way they're getting a back 9. *sigh*

The show isn't about whores or a series that hits the reset every week. Well, it isn't ALL about that.

by **DennisMM** on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:38 am

Off for five weeks. FIVE WEEKS! They'd rather show House reruns in between Series games? I don't get it.

by **Nick** on Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:15 pm

DennisMM wrote:Off for five weeks. FIVE WEEKS! They'd rather show House reruns in between Series games? I don't get it.

Because House repeats do 62.5% better than Dollhouse

And it is a sweeps month

by **Ribbons** on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:52 pm

Nick wrote:
DennisMM wrote:Off for five weeks. FIVE WEEKS! They'd rather show House reruns in between Series games? I don't get it.

Because House repeats do 62.5% better than Dollhouse

And it is a sweeps month

Damn you and your facts!

by **DennisMM** on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:38 am

Yeah, I know House repeats are successful, but there's some principle involved. Or should be.

by **BuckyO'harre** on Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:48 pm

Big surprise... it's been canceled.

by **DennisMM** on Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:45 pm

I knew it was coming. I just hope they live up to their word and air all 13 of the ordered episodes. This means the show will have gotten 1.2 full seasons.

Nellie Andreeva wrote:"Dollhouse" stars Eliza Dushku as a DNA-altered woman who gets implanted false memories for various missions and tasks.

DNA-altered? What press release has she been reading?

by **Ribbons** on Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:08 am

lol, see that's part of "Dollhouse" (and Whedon shows in general)'s problem (a good problem, in my opinion, but it does make for a short shelf life). If you were trying to sell the idea to someone, you'd need like a paragraph just to explain what the fuck it is.

by **Retardo_Montalban** on Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:03 am

Ribbons wrote:lol, see that's part of "Dollhouse" (and Whedon shows in general)'s problem (a good problem, in my opinion, but it does make for a short shelf life). If you were trying to sell the idea to someone, you'd need like a paragraph just to explain what the fuck it is.

Bah, you can say the same shit about Babylon 5, but that show got its 5 seasons and then some. The difference is you didn't need tons of faith in the showrunner to guarantee quality entertainment. That shit was just solid. Babylon 5 was also shot on a budget that took into consideration its target audience and still won a bunch of Emmys for special effects.

by **RogueScribner** on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:45 am

Well, this is surprising to absolutely no one. I feel the show was really hitting its stride this season, but we'll never know where it would have led. Hopefully Whedon can find another project to sink his teeth into that'll last more than a season or two. I think he's lost some of his mojo, though.

by **TK-421** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:32 pm

RogueScribner wrote:Well, this is surprising to absolutely no one. I feel the show was really hitting its stride this season, but we'll never know where it would have led. Hopefully Whedon can find another project to sink his teeth into that'll last more than a season or two. I think he's lost some of his mojo, though.

You did see Dr. Horrible, right?

I thought Dollhouse was good, but living in Denmark means I've only seen the first series (on DVD, too - no one picked it up over here). It started out pretty all right - intriguing if not enticing - but the final few episodes were absolutely brilliant. I'm right there with what I imagine are crowds of mourners flailing their hands and screaming that yet another Whedon show was cancelled.

That dude ought to do more films instead of being constantly reliant on funding to continue shows that don't, and shouldn't, appeal to the mainstream.

Looking forward to Cabin in the Woods.

by **so sorry** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:05 pm

Maybe Whedon has some deep seeded self loathing issues that provoke him to make shows that are mildly interested to some, fanatically interesting to a few, and largely ignored by MOST. Like he's afraid of total success, so he always leaves something out of his work, knowing it will always fail, and thus he won't have to deal with the criticisms that come with true success.

Or maybe his shows just suck.

by **The Vicar** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:11 pm

He keeps putting his shows on Fox, and has the nerve to look surprised each and every time Fox screws one of his shows over.
D'oh.

by **papalazeru** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:20 pm

The Vicar wrote:He keeps putting his shows on Fox, and has the nerve to look surprised each and every time Fox screws one of his shows over.
D'oh.

Oh snap!

Everytime he's like, 'Well, I know Fox treated us badly before but this time they said they'd change'.

He sounds like a physically abused wife.

by **Fried Gold** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:35 pm

Have any of his shows ever been ratings hits? Even Buffy at it's peak only got something like 4-5 million viewers. And to be fair to Fox, regardless of that, they have at least picked up his ideas and given them the greenlight.

by **The Vicar** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:43 pm

Yeah, but then they wipe their arse with them. Firefly was shown out of order, which never helps.

by **Fried Gold** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:26 pm

The Vicar wrote:Yeah, but then they wipe their arse with them. Firefly was shown out of order, which never helps.

Firefly was still boring, regardless of what order you watch it.

by **Ribbons** on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:17 pm

An interview with Joss Whedon about the end of Dollhouse, the return of Dr. Horrible, and other projects: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/12/dollhouse-fox-joss-whedon.html

Ryan: Just talking about the bigger picture of the show and how it's evolved, you have talked other times about the fact that you always wanted standalones as part of the "Dollhouse" mixture. And there have been some really good ones. So you've been on record as wanting a mixture of standalones and mythology, but I'm wondering if the current climate of network TV in general is just not going to be friendly to the amount of mythology that you would like to put out there and that people seem to respond to.

Whedon: It’s going to be friendly if the people show up. The problems that the show encountered weren’t standalone versus mythology. Basically the show didn’t really get off the ground because the network pretty much wanted to back away from the concept five minutes after they bought it and then ultimately, the show itself is also kind of odd and difficult to market. I actually think they did a good job, but it’s just not a slam-dunk concept. It wasn’t like our numbers were huge and plummeted. They were tiny and still somehow managed to plummet. We alienated both our viewers.

Ryan: In terms of the network backing away from the concept -- you were able to kind of get back and do your thing midway through Season 1. How much of that was a factor in Season 2?

Whedon: Very much. I mean, midway through Season 1 [it was,] "OK, here is the show." We got the espionage that the network wants, but it’s the questions about identity that we want. There are other things about the show that never came back and I didn’t really realize it until the second season, [there were] things that we were ultimately sort of dancing around.

The idea of sexuality was a big part of the show when it started and when that fell out, when the show turned into a thriller every week, it took something out of it that was kind of basic to what we were trying to do. And then also the fact that it was a thriller every week meant that we couldn’t go from genre to genre, which is really what I wanted to do. But we did manage to keep the questions about who we are and the interpersonal stuff and [there was] the amazing ensemble and everybody shining and doing cool stuff.

But there was… We always found ourselves sort of moving away from what had been part of the original spark of the show and that ultimately just makes it really hard to write these stories. It makes it twice as hard as usual. [Normally] you have that sort of kernel that you’re building on that’s completely solid. You know, "She is a little girl with super powers." "He is a cranky doctor who always gets it right." Whatever it is you sort of can build off that. When you’re trying to back away from your central premise at the same time as you’re making that [show,] it gets complicated.

Fox began airing the final episodes of Dollhouse tonight.

by **DennisMM** on Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:26 pm

I liked the episodes aired on 12/4. Interesting twist that the senator, not his wife, was the doll. Not sure how they'll work with the character during the remainder of the program, unless they somehow get him to L.A. Summer Glau's character was downright bizarre. She's obviously psychologically damaged. Is it all about the accident that cost her use of her arm? Surely there had to be pathology before that. Once again we have a damaged female character. Does Whedon do any other sort? And Echo is back walking the street, though this time she's got at least part of the Caroline identity peeking through. Is she now more like Alpha or more like the protagonist of All My Sins Remembered ? Will Caroline's body come out of this in any sort of shape to meet her mind in "Epitaph Two"?

by **papalazeru** on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:11 pm

Anyone keeping up with the recent episodes?

Fox really must be motherfuckers to let a show like this slide. The story gets more and more complex as it goes along and poses more and more existential questions.

I hope, I really hope that this goes the way of Firefly and we get a full movie out of it. This is one incredible show. Dushku's acting has improved through the 2nd series and each character has developed in their own right.

One of the more recent favourite moments was Victor being Topher. A spot on impression, and not just that, done wonderfully during a drama heavy episode.

I am totally in love with this show and it's going to be missed beyond belief

by **Shanny Boy** on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:44 pm

I read they were gonna end the series with Epitaph Two. One was the best episode of the series, I hope Two is just as good.

by **Bob Samonkey** on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:09 pm

papalazeru wrote:One of the more recent favourite moments was Victor being Topher. A spot on impression, and not just that, done wonderfully during a drama heavy episode.

That really was very very good

by **DennisMM** on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:24 am

Boyd? BOYD?

Oh, dear.

by **stereosforgeeks** on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:24 am

DennisMM wrote:Boyd? BOYD?

Oh, dear.

*insert Scanners.gif*

by **sonnyboo** on Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:58 pm

Old Joss might be losing his touch. A twist for the sake of being a twist? Please God, let this turn out well.

I'm a huge Whedonite, but Dollhouse has been a disappointment. I just re-watched FIREFLY and SERENITY on Blu Ray, and this show is not even in the same sport, nonetheless field comparatively.

It's been okay, and part of what was missing in most of season one (series one for my European friends) was the trademark humor. Eliza Dushku is hot, but she isn't a 3rd the actors of her co-stars who seem like acting chameleons with masters in accents. Now that they made ECHO more or less the exact same performance as CAROLYN, there really is no attempt to mask the fact she isn't a diverse actress. I like Eliza when she does what she does well, but in the context of the show, it's kind of a deal breaker. The 2nd season titles made it all about the various erotic outfits she wears on the show. At least they are going out with a Whedon-bang of mythology so there is some sense of epic, but it's ultimately a lesser product to his other works.

I'm worried this failure to attract audiences might not be the end of Whedon's more original and ambitious TV projects. Which is really a shame because he is a master at the genre of re-inventing shows ever season and making them interesting (and with incredible writing and directing in almost every case, Dollhouse excluded).

by **papalazeru** on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:15 am

sonnyboo wrote:Old Joss might be losing his touch. A twist for the sake of being a twist? Please God, let this turn out well.

I'm a huge Whedonite, but Dollhouse has been a disappointment. I just re-watched FIREFLY and SERENITY on Blu Ray, and this show is not even in the same sport, nonetheless field comparatively.

It's been okay, and part of what was missing in most of season one (series one for my European friends) was the trademark humor. Eliza Dushku is hot, but she isn't a 3rd the actors of her co-stars who seem like acting chameleons with masters in accents. Now that they made ECHO more or less the exact same performance as CAROLYN, there really is no attempt to mask the fact she isn't a diverse actress. I like Eliza when she does what she does well, but in the context of the show, it's kind of a deal breaker. The 2nd season titles made it all about the various erotic outfits she wears on the show. At least they are going out with a Whedon-bang of mythology so there is some sense of epic, but it's ultimately a lesser product to his other works.

I'm worried this failure to attract audiences might not be the end of Whedon's more original and ambitious TV projects. Which is really a shame because he is a master at the genre of re-inventing shows ever season and making them interesting (and with incredible writing and directing in almost every case, Dollhouse excluded).

I liked it. Alot.

The problem is the show has moved incredibly fast because it was being cancelled. If this had time to be more spaced out with more character development it could have been better but the journey has been brilliant.

I agree with the comments about Dushku though. I wonder what the show would have been like if Sierra and Echo swapped places?

Also, Summer Glau is playing a very similar character to all those she's played in the Whedon universe. Maybe the problem is Whedon needs new inspiration from new characters, I mean, look what Neil Patrick Harris brought to the table in Dr Horribles? It played perfectly off Nathan Fillion's Cpt. Hammer.

I think when Whedon comes across a good canvass which fits his show, he paints it but then keeps repainting similar idea's onto that canvass in similar characters.