LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

The greatest TV in history is being made right now. The worst TV in history is being made right now.

How did you feel about the finale?

Loved it
10
38%
Liked it
6
23%
Disappointed
5
19%
Konged
5
19%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Wed May 26, 2010 8:16 am

IT WASN'T PURGATORY.

it was another reality, where everything existed, but it wasn't real exatly.
they were not paying for sins as much as they were just unaware that they were dead.

and as a Christian, I'd just like to say big ups to carleton and lindeloff for going the heaven route instead of being pussies and trying to please everyone.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby RogueScribner on Wed May 26, 2010 8:29 am

A staff writer from the show supposedly posted this:



Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.



i have to say, that does help put some things into perspective.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 9:28 am

King Of Nowhere wrote:The lost version of purgatory made every character the same in the end & for a show that i keep getting told "it's all about the characters", that doesn't really work for me. The whole idea of purgatory is kinda to make you plain, free of your flaws & ready for Heaven. It doesn't really work to show people paying for their past sins by living out reasonably nice lives. Kate, Jin & Sayid all killed people in their non island lives & then went on to kill some more once they reached the island, but they get little punishment. Kate only gets taken to jail for a few hours. Sure, Sayid can't be with his true love, but wait, the need to show "the gang's all here" made Shannon his true love & he found spiritual peace by, erm, saving her from a fake fight.

Then you've got Ben, a guy who was shown to commit genocide. The only bad thing that happened to him was Des hitting him a little & the failure to get the Principal's job via blackmail. That could be a reason for Ben not being ready to move on, as he's only recently discovered his evil potential & hasn't made up for the things he did while he was alive, but we were shown Sayid learning that he can't escape being a killer & he didn't have to pay for what he did before entering heaven. Having Ben turn down the chance to move on was bullshit. You can't do "the gang's all here for a purpose" without having all of the gang serve it. They even have Shannon in the church, showing that the most important thing she ever did in her life was fucking about on an island for two weeks, she realises it & gets to move on. If, like Christian said, Jack needed everyone to help him move on & they all needed each other, Ben should've been in the room.

Miles was shown to be tracking down Des, Sayid & Kate, but he didn't get the memo about the party. His partner, Sawyer, could've phoned him up, told him "you better come down here" & that way Miles would've been able to move on as well. Instead of showing 3 seconds of Sawyer on the phone, or just having him on the phone in the background of a scene & then having Miles sitting in the church with everyone else, they decided to make a plot hole.

The other thing that bothered me is that they have people of all religions hanging around in a Christian (most likely catholic) purgatory. I get that the writers didn't want to say "x religion is the one we're displaying" & that's why we see people going to the party/concert & then to Christian's funeral, but that only works as far as tricking the characters into going to the church, not for say, Sayid, to be in purgatory in the first place. Purgatory comes across more as Jack's dying fantasy, or at least a version of purgatory created solely for himself, than anything else.

Other than that, i liked it. The first 2 hours were fantastic. I didn't have any questions i wanted them to answer & just wanted to see how they'd rap the story up. They did a good job with all the on-island stuff.


i don't think it was supposed to literally be Purgatory, specific to catholic or any particular faith. i and others have been calling it purgatory because it kinda resembles the vague, non-Catholic idea of purgatory i'm familiar. but i'm not catholic and i don't know precisely what the catholic notion of purgatory represents. i'm pretty sure damon lindelof is a jew though, i doubt he'd be writing something that was intended to represent catholic theology.

the one thing christian said was that "this is the place you all made so you could find each other after you died". so this "purgatory" is not some pre-existing spiritual realm, but rather a construct of the collective minds/souls of the characters. something each of them had to learn to "let go" of in order to move on to the real afterlife, whatever that may be.

and i don't think punishment was ever any part of the purpose of this world, or the show's themes.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed May 26, 2010 9:31 am

RogueScribner wrote:A staff writer from the show supposedly posted this:



Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.



i have to say, that does help put some things into perspective.


That's all well and good. But, here's my question:

WHY COULDN'T THEY EXPLAIN ALL OF THE ISLAND STUFF DURING THE SERIES RUN?!?!??!?

They tried to be vague in order to keep the mystery going - - but the consequence of that is they left the audience without SOLID, concrete answers as to what the hell was going on Island-wise.

If they would have taken such care in that regard as they did with their happy heaven ending, then there would be no need for the anonymously written post-game analysis. There would be contentment amongst the viewing throngs, choirs would sing, with tearful eyes and wide smiles, the praises of Lindelof" and Cuse. The audience would jump and cheer in agreement and take the atmosphere into the streets to spread the word to the general public.

Instead there are pitchforked villagers in the form of their cheated fans and disgruntled critics, hunting them down until they gather their pound of flesh for the six years they wasted on the show - - a show that gave them no answers to the questions they had since day one.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 9:46 am

RogueScribner wrote:A staff writer from the show supposedly posted this:


i don't really believe that was written by a staff writer. or if it was, then i'm a little less impressed with the writers than i was before.
for the most part, it all makes sense to me and syncs up with what i took from the finale. but a couple problems:

1) he says michael couldn't go to the sideways world and move on because of what he did on the island. but other people (notably ben) did far worse things on the island and DID move on. i mean, ben committed mass murder, and even killed the island's protector. that's gotta be worse than killing libby and ana lucia, right?

2) he says only season 1 people were in the church. ummm... juliet wasn't in season 1. and neither were desmond and penny. i can ALMOST buy that the ending from jack's entry into the church was written from the start (though i definitely don't buy that the season 6 purgatory concept as a whole was there from the start), but if he's trying to claim that they knew at the beginning about desmond, penny and juliet, then its BS. that's why i don't think this was an actual Lost writer who wrote this.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 9:50 am

ONeillSG1 wrote:Instead there are pitchforked villagers in the form of their cheated fans and disgruntled critics, hunting them down until they gather their pound of flesh for the six years they wasted on the show - - a show that gave them no answers to the questions they had since day one.


really? i think you're projecting your own disappointment and anger a bit. there are definitely disappointed and angry fans, but there are also a lot of people like myself who are perfectly happy with the ending. i definitely don't see these mobs of angry fans that you do. i've read plenty of reaction from fans and critics both, and while it's certainly mixed, at least to me it seems on balance to come down more positive than negative. unless the only reaction you read is in the AICN TBs, that is.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed May 26, 2010 10:05 am

TheBaxter wrote:
ONeillSG1 wrote:Instead there are pitchforked villagers in the form of their cheated fans and disgruntled critics, hunting them down until they gather their pound of flesh for the six years they wasted on the show - - a show that gave them no answers to the questions they had since day one.


really? i think you're projecting your own disappointment and anger a bit. there are definitely disappointed and angry fans, but there are also a lot of people like myself who are perfectly happy with the ending. i definitely don't see these mobs of angry fans that you do. i've read plenty of reaction from fans and critics both, and while it's certainly mixed, at least to me it seems on balance to come down more positive than negative. unless the only reaction you read is in the AICN TBs, that is.


I know, I was just going overboard for dramatic effect. Remind you of any TV shows? lol
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Wed May 26, 2010 10:21 am

the Baxter wrote:i don't think it was supposed to literally be Purgatory, specific to catholic or any particular faith. i and others have been calling it purgatory because it kinda resembles the vague, non-Catholic idea of purgatory i'm familiar. but i'm not catholic and i don't know precisely what the catholic notion of purgatory represents. i'm pretty sure damon lindelof is a jew though, i doubt he'd be writing something that was intended to represent catholic theology.


For what its worth Carlton Cuse is a practicing Catholic...
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 10:23 am

so sorry wrote:
the Baxter wrote:i don't think it was supposed to literally be Purgatory, specific to catholic or any particular faith. i and others have been calling it purgatory because it kinda resembles the vague, non-Catholic idea of purgatory i'm familiar. but i'm not catholic and i don't know precisely what the catholic notion of purgatory represents. i'm pretty sure damon lindelof is a jew though, i doubt he'd be writing something that was intended to represent catholic theology.


For what its worth Carlton Cuse is a practicing Catholic...


so cuse came up with the ending, and lindelof felt guilty about it afterwards?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 10:23 am

ONeillSG1 wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:
ONeillSG1 wrote:Instead there are pitchforked villagers in the form of their cheated fans and disgruntled critics, hunting them down until they gather their pound of flesh for the six years they wasted on the show - - a show that gave them no answers to the questions they had since day one.


really? i think you're projecting your own disappointment and anger a bit. there are definitely disappointed and angry fans, but there are also a lot of people like myself who are perfectly happy with the ending. i definitely don't see these mobs of angry fans that you do. i've read plenty of reaction from fans and critics both, and while it's certainly mixed, at least to me it seems on balance to come down more positive than negative. unless the only reaction you read is in the AICN TBs, that is.


I know, I was just going overboard for dramatic effect. Remind you of any TV shows? lol


are you referring to "24"?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Wed May 26, 2010 1:05 pm

ironic name wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:
ironic name wrote:and the only scene I nearly lost it in is Vincent laying down with Jack.
if you cried you are a sissy.


:(

or not unable to feel.
either way.

just watched again, cried my nuts off at Vincent aka Christian being there when jack died.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Wed May 26, 2010 1:15 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
so sorry wrote:
the Baxter wrote:i don't think it was supposed to literally be Purgatory, specific to catholic or any particular faith. i and others have been calling it purgatory because it kinda resembles the vague, non-Catholic idea of purgatory i'm familiar. but i'm not catholic and i don't know precisely what the catholic notion of purgatory represents. i'm pretty sure damon lindelof is a jew though, i doubt he'd be writing something that was intended to represent catholic theology.


For what its worth Carlton Cuse is a practicing Catholic...


so cuse came up with the ending, and lindelof felt guilty about it afterwards?

supposedly, JJ came up with the whole beginning and the whole last 5 minute ending.

ONeillSG1 wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:A staff writer from the show supposedly posted this:



Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.



i have to say, that does help put some things into perspective.


That's all well and good. But, here's my question:

WHY COULDN'T THEY EXPLAIN ALL OF THE ISLAND STUFF DURING THE SERIES RUN?!?!??!?

They tried to be vague in order to keep the mystery going - - but the consequence of that is they left the audience without SOLID, concrete answers as to what the hell was going on Island-wise.

If they would have taken such care in that regard as they did with their happy heaven ending, then there would be no need for the anonymously written post-game analysis. There would be contentment amongst the viewing throngs, choirs would sing, with tearful eyes and wide smiles, the praises of Lindelof" and Cuse. The audience would jump and cheer in agreement and take the atmosphere into the streets to spread the word to the general public.

Instead there are pitchforked villagers in the form of their cheated fans and disgruntled critics, hunting them down until they gather their pound of flesh for the six years they wasted on the show - - a show that gave them no answers to the questions they had since day one.

its like the scene in the dark knight where we see that there are bombs on the boats, to some thats a plot hole, to me, its nolan trusting me to know that joker says hes chaos, but he has been planning this for a while. To extrapolate he might've kidnapped someone's family and gotten them to plant those drums of fuel, he might've gotten his underlings like the schitzo jobs at the port, its up to you the viewer to work it out.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed May 26, 2010 3:48 pm

That analysis from the Supposed Lost Writer was pretty interesting, and generally makes a lot of sense. O'Neill, I get you, but I think it's a matter of taste to a degree, I kind of liked that we didn't get SOLID CONCRETE ANSWERS to everything, it allows for people to continue to theorize and analyze, which at the end of the day was what the show was really about. Plus, I think the pitchfork bit and the notion that we got "no answers" is a bit of hyperbole.

So, that blog was interesting, but I have a feeling it's a fake and here's why (other than the "blatent" spelling mistakes and other issues with the writing):

Supposed Lost Writer wrote:
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


Weren't Desmond and Penny in the church?? Neither was in Season 1, were they? Perhaps they were contemplated in advance? Not sure that I buy that. Or were they in Season 1 and I'm just forgetting about them?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TonyWilson on Wed May 26, 2010 3:53 pm

Man, if that is a genuine Lost writer then Cuselof seriously must have despised Michael, Ben... fucking Ben the mass murderer and Sayid the torturer turned hitman turned tool of MiB get to be happy and Michael doesn't even get a look in.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Wed May 26, 2010 3:54 pm

The real tragedy was that Vincent wasn't in the church. And I was lead to believe that all dogs go to heaven.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TonyWilson on Wed May 26, 2010 3:58 pm

I bet there's a deleted scene of Vincent, Mikhail's Cat, his Cow, the frog Sawyer squashed and all the Boar they killed meting up in a veterinary clinic and going into The Light.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 4:01 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:That analysis from the Supposed Lost Writer was pretty interesting, and generally makes a lot of sense. O'Neill, I get you, but I think it's a matter of taste to a degree, I kind of liked that we didn't get SOLID CONCRETE ANSWERS to everything, it allows for people to continue to theorize and analyze, which at the end of the day was what the show was really about. Plus, I think the pitchfork bit and the notion that we got "no answers" is a bit of hyperbole.

So, that blog was interesting, but I have a feeling it's a fake and here's why (other than the "blatent" spelling mistakes and other issues with the writing):

Supposed Lost Writer wrote:
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


Weren't Desmond and Penny in the church?? Neither was in Season 1, were they? Perhaps they were contemplated in advance? Not sure that I buy that. Or were they in Season 1 and I'm just forgetting about them?


they weren't, and neither was juliet, who wasn't even on the show til season 3... well AFTER ben was introduced in season 2 and then his role was expanded. this blog post is a fake, it's just relying on well-reported info (like michael emerson's being signed originally for only 3 episodes) and tying together stuff that you could infer from the finale itself, to try to make himself sound like he knows what he's talking about. but obvious mistakes like these undermine his story. ok, they had no idea ben would be a major character, but knew that juliet would be from the very beginning? yeah right.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 4:01 pm

so sorry wrote:The real tragedy was that Vincent wasn't in the church. And I was lead to believe that all dogs go to heaven.


they do. they just don't need to make a stop in purgatory along the way.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Wed May 26, 2010 4:03 pm

so sorry wrote:The real tragedy was that Vincent wasn't in the church. And I was lead to believe that all dogs go to heaven.

Vincent was so Jack's dad.
they went ticking off every silly fan idea, including hurley takes over, they're all dead, juliet and sawyer will be together in another world, kate love jack.
the Dog was his Dad.
maybe not always, but that's one fan theory, and they included it.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 4:14 pm

btw, i have another lost theory (and you thought they'd go away when the series ended. HAH!)

the island at the bottom of the sea in the season premiere seemed really important, but isn't really explained by the whole purgatory concept. so here's what i think. when people die in the 'real world' they don't automatically go to heaven, or purgatory, or whatever... but instead they go into a kind of 'soul sleep'. and for as long as the island exists, and the island light remains lit, they stay like that. the unlucky ones, like michael, don't get to sleep but are trapped on the island for all that time. but at some point in the distant future, well after hurley and ben's stint as island guardian and assistant to the island guardian, at some point the island WILL be destroyed, or sink, or otherwise decay by natural causes... but whatever happens, in some way, it ends up at the bottom of the sea, and the light suddenly is no longer 'trapped' on the island, and at that point time stops (or as christian says, 'there is no now here'). it is at this point, that the sideways-purgatory world comes into being, and all the characters are awakened from their 'soul sleep' and resurrected into this post-island world, without any memory of their former life. the island light was the source of all life, death and rebirth, as notmom describes it. but while it was lit, there was no afterlife, there was no place for the souls of the dead to be reborn into. when the island is sunk, the 'light' which represents life and death and rebirth, suddenly becomes a place that the souls can reach. however, they have to be 'reborn' first, through the sideways-purgatory, and then they have to 'let go' of their memories and their old selves, before they can enter into the light itself and whatever afterlife that represents.

among other things, this explains why desmond's consciousness could travel between the two worlds - since the sideways world WAS in the future, in a sense, but it was a future where time had ceased to exist.

furthermore, i really don't like the idea of michael being trapped as an 'island ghost whisperer' for eternity. so i think when the island does sink, michael is also freed and able to go into the purgatory world. but because of his actions betraying the other survivors, he has to find a different group of people to connect with in the purgatory world before he can move on and enter into the light.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 4:15 pm

ironic name wrote:
so sorry wrote:The real tragedy was that Vincent wasn't in the church. And I was lead to believe that all dogs go to heaven.

Vincent was so Jack's dad.
they went ticking off every silly fan idea, including hurley takes over, they're all dead, juliet and sawyer will be together in another world, kate love jack.
the Dog was his Dad.
maybe not always, but that's one fan theory, and they included it.


i'll need to rewatch it i guess, but i didn't get any "vincent is jack's dad" hint or vibe from that show.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Wed May 26, 2010 4:46 pm

TheBaxter wrote:btw, i have another lost theory (and you thought they'd go away when the series ended. HAH!)

the island at the bottom of the sea in the season premiere seemed really important, but isn't really explained by the whole purgatory concept. so here's what i think. when people die in the 'real world' they don't automatically go to heaven, or purgatory, or whatever... but instead they go into a kind of 'soul sleep'. and for as long as the island exists, and the island light remains lit, they stay like that. the unlucky ones, like michael, don't get to sleep but are trapped on the island for all that time. but at some point in the distant future, well after hurley and ben's stint as island guardian and assistant to the island guardian, at some point the island WILL be destroyed, or sink, or otherwise decay by natural causes... but whatever happens, in some way, it ends up at the bottom of the sea, and the light suddenly is no longer 'trapped' on the island, and at that point time stops (or as christian says, 'there is no now here'). it is at this point, that the sideways-purgatory world comes into being, and all the characters are awakened from their 'soul sleep' and resurrected into this post-island world, without any memory of their former life. the island light was the source of all life, death and rebirth, as notmom describes it. but while it was lit, there was no afterlife, there was no place for the souls of the dead to be reborn into. when the island is sunk, the 'light' which represents life and death and rebirth, suddenly becomes a place that the souls can reach. however, they have to be 'reborn' first, through the sideways-purgatory, and then they have to 'let go' of their memories and their old selves, before they can enter into the light itself and whatever afterlife that represents.

among other things, this explains why desmond's consciousness could travel between the two worlds - since the sideways world WAS in the future, in a sense, but it was a future where time had ceased to exist.

furthermore, i really don't like the idea of michael being trapped as an 'island ghost whisperer' for eternity. so i think when the island does sink, michael is also freed and able to go into the purgatory world. but because of his actions betraying the other survivors, he has to find a different group of people to connect with in the purgatory world before he can move on and enter into the light.


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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed May 26, 2010 5:08 pm

not smokin' nuthin. i did drink some dirty pond water from an old plastic water bottle though. some guy told me it would give me magical powers.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby RogueScribner on Wed May 26, 2010 6:05 pm

Fake or not, I thought that post provided some good insight into how the show ended.

Also, the island under water bit was obviously just to put that idea in people's heads that the bomb went off and sank (or something) so we'd buy into the belief that the sideways world was an alternate time line. Think about it: without that shot, when we saw Ben for the first time, wouldn't we naturally assume he was up to something? Or Widmore? We'd we wouldn't take the sideways world at face value which is what they wanted us to do. To believe in that world. Only, so many coincidences and inconsistencies started popping up that many people wondered if there wasn't something off about the sideways world too (the island's influence even after it sank?). Of course, when we find out it's purgatory (as in, a place to ready the soul for the great beyond) all those little inconsistencies and coincidences suddenly make sense.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Hermanator X on Wed May 26, 2010 6:32 pm

First reactions on seeing the finale:

I think it was quite telling that the spoof endings on Jimmy Kimmel didnt include Quantum Leap.

Sam/Jack walks into a bar/church with all the people he helped/acted the douche with then Sam/Christian walks into the light.

I only finished watching it a few minutes ago, so apologies if same comparison has been made!!
Think I need to sleep on it/digest it a bit. I loved the island stuff, for the most part, and thought Jack laying down to die was great, but im not quite sure about the sideways/purgatory thing. Its a bit wishy washy to me right now. I dont mind a few smaller points being glossed over, but the whole thing of showing Juliette hammering the bomb twice at the start of the season is a bit of a red herring too far, if in "reality" it never done a damn thing, and was not involved with the sideways whatsoever. meh whatever. I guess the highlight of the show (for me) has been the back in time S5 antics, and this ending makes it all pretty much redundant (apart from Jack learning to chillax a bit).
...and so forth.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby papalazeru on Wed May 26, 2010 7:57 pm

PENNY WASN'T ON THE PLANE!!!

WIDMORE IS STILL ALIVE

BEN LIVED CONSIDERING HE DIDN'T ENTER THE CHURCH??!?!?!

MR EKO COUNTED FOR NOUGHT

ROUSSEAU (or daughter and possible son in law)

Dr Chang was at the concert considering he was from the past

You know what...I would have been happier with just the first half of this ending. In fact, Jack blowing up the island to stop smokey getting to the populous would have been fine with me but there are far tooooo many holes in this show.

That being said, the first half was quite touching. The rest, shite. Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.

P.S I'm guessing the other passengers on 1815 were like into Buddhism or something cos they died....and got smited from the series cos of it. That's a lot of passengers...Even Jeff Fahey made it to the end...on a different plane...and he playing virtual life like it was real!!!!

Any of the script writers Scientologist nut jobs?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Fievel on Wed May 26, 2010 10:58 pm

papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.


But they weren't. All of the island stuff happened. It was only the sideways stuff that was post-death.

After having a few days to think about things other than Lost...
The finale was awesome. Why awesome? Because I absolutely loved parts of it (most of the episode), hated a part of it (the purgatory reveal), and will always have questions about it.

Michael Emerson Describes The Long Post-Finale Bonus Coming To The Last LOST Blu-ray!!

If you're not wanting to click that link here's the rundown:
- it's 14 minutes long
-Dialogue is as follows-
Hurley - "Dude."
Ben - "Yes Hugo?"
Desmond - "Oh brutha."
Ben - "Yes Desmond?"
(sequence repeats for fourteen minutes)
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Brocktune on Wed May 26, 2010 11:02 pm

fantastic fucking finale. i couldnt have been happier with the way it ended. i mean, unless lapides had been in the church as well.

lost, im gonna miss you *sniff*.

i know i havent really participated in a discussion regarding this show on this forum since season three. but thanks you guys for making an awesome show a hell of a lot more fun. *sigh* good times. :(
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Fievel on Thu May 27, 2010 12:07 am

Saw this. Laughed.
And now I present it to you:

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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Thu May 27, 2010 12:23 am

papalazeru wrote:PENNY WASN'T ON THE PLANE!!!

WIDMORE IS STILL ALIVE

BEN LIVED CONSIDERING HE DIDN'T ENTER THE CHURCH??!?!?!

MR EKO COUNTED FOR NOUGHT

ROUSSEAU (or daughter and possible son in law)

Dr Chang was at the concert considering he was from the past

You know what...I would have been happier with just the first half of this ending. In fact, Jack blowing up the island to stop smokey getting to the populous would have been fine with me but there are far tooooo many holes in this show.

That being said, the first half was quite touching. The rest, shite. Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.

P.S I'm guessing the other passengers on 1815 were like into Buddhism or something cos they died....and got smited from the series cos of it. That's a lot of passengers...Even Jeff Fahey made it to the end...on a different plane...and he playing virtual life like it was real!!!!

Any of the script writers Scientologist nut jobs?

1) since des organized their get together maybe he decided to take her.
2) it has nothing to do with time, widmore eventually died of old age and was there with desmond,
3) ben isn't ready, he wants to have a family, or he doesn't feel like he deserves to enter The Light.
4) eko refused to come back for the finale, hes too busy doing important stuff, like, uh, gi joe 2?
5) trejo is coming for you, gonna give you the meso american pipeline, the arizona shaft.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Thu May 27, 2010 12:55 am

Fievel wrote:Saw this. Laughed.
And now I present it to you:

Image

cool.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby geekgrrl on Thu May 27, 2010 12:56 am

I still can’t believe it is over. All day I have tried my hardest to concentrate on work and my real life, but instead I keep looking back to my alternate life. The place where I spent hours talking with fellow Losties about what we had seen before. Where I spent untold amounts of energy watching and rewatching each episode trying to pick up on any little hint I could find. Where I laughed and cried and screamed with characters that had become like a second family to me. In my house the hour a week that Lost was on was considered sacred. It was my “me” time. The one hour where I could, and forgive the pun, get lost in a world that went way beyond my imagination.

When Lost first debuted in 2004 I felt very much like the surviors of Oceanic Flight 815. My own life was a series of unfortunate events that I was unable to see coming or prevent from happening. Each day was about surving to the next one. The only thing I wanted was to get to a place where life was happier and here it was a show about a group of strangers who just wanted to get to a place where they were happy. They, like myself, were so intent on getting back to the lives that they had built up in their minds to be wonderful that they never bothered to look around and see that there lives were better on the island. Lost was a world full of mysteries that as we all know by now will never be answered and truthfully that is ok with me. I know there are probably alot of fans that would tar and feather me for that statement, but it’s how I feel. Now don’t get me wrong I loved the mysteries as much as anyone else did, but for me this show was never about the mysteries. For me what made Lost great was the connection I felt with the characters. Whether I loved them or hated them I was with them til the end. And like the characters there were times that I was bittertly disappointed by the change of events or a question that appeared to have no answer. But in the long run I loved the show unconditionally and with no regrets.

It wasn’t until I woke up this morning that I realized just how much I was going to miss this show. There have been plenty of show that came before Lost that I had loved that went off the air and although it was sad the next morning life went on as normal. Not I am not going to say that life isn’t going on as I speak, it is, but I can not stop feeling as though there is something missing. It is as if I was forced to say good bye to a good friend that I was not ready to let go. I knew the end was coming and yet a day later I am still reeling over the finality of it all. Every so often a show comes along that changes television in some way or another. A show that manages to capture the hearts and minds of it’s viewers. Lost was lucky enough to be one of those shows. Is it the best show in the history of television? I can’t answer that because it’s too personal of a question and only the individual viewer can determine that for themselves. I know that for me that the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 and the rest of the island family will always have a place on my Best Show of All Time list.

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http://lostinreviews.com/ For those of us who live outside of normal
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Thu May 27, 2010 1:04 am

TheBaxter wrote:
ironic name wrote:
so sorry wrote:The real tragedy was that Vincent wasn't in the church. And I was lead to believe that all dogs go to heaven.

Vincent was so Jack's dad.
they went ticking off every silly fan idea, including hurley takes over, they're all dead, juliet and sawyer will be together in another world, kate love jack.
the Dog was his Dad.
maybe not always, but that's one fan theory, and they included it.


i'll need to rewatch it i guess, but i didn't get any "vincent is jack's dad" hint or vibe from that show.

I thunk it was the fact that they just included every fan idea, like hurley being the main guy etc, that it felt that way, plus the juxtoposition of Christian putting his hand on Jack's shoulder and Vincent Laying down next to jack at the same time, everybody knows that labradors are the greatest anyway, so whether you want the Dog to be Jack's dad like people have said [jokingly] since maybe season 2 on the net, it is, if you want the Dog to be Vincent, because he was in australia before Christian passed on then he is.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Thu May 27, 2010 1:12 am

Fievel wrote:Saw this. Laughed.
And now I present it to you:

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stealing
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby MacCready on Thu May 27, 2010 1:15 am

Too damned funny. Possibly true.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu May 27, 2010 8:42 am

Fievel wrote:
papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.



i can't believe people are still getting this wrong. seriously!?!? WERE YOU NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!??????
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu May 27, 2010 8:49 am

Fievel wrote:Saw this. Laughed.
And now I present it to you:

Image


too awesome.

wait. does this mean the whole show was just vincent's dream?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Thu May 27, 2010 8:50 am

TheBaxter wrote:
Fievel wrote:
papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.



i can't believe people are still getting this wrong. seriously!?!? WERE YOU NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!??????



I really really hope that Papa is just fucking around with us...taking the piss...stoking the fire...being a contrarian...not really that stupid.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby RogueScribner on Thu May 27, 2010 10:24 am

I don't understand how the writers go through the trouble of having a character say everything that happened on the island really happened, and people still think everyone was dead the entire time. Ja?
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am

RogueScribner wrote:I don't understand how the writers go through the trouble of having a character say everything that happened on the island really happened, and people still think everyone was dead the entire time. Ja?



Devil's Advocate wrote:Maybe because the character who said that WAS DEAD TOO!
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Fried Gold on Thu May 27, 2010 10:38 am

TheBaxter wrote:
Fievel wrote:
papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.



i can't believe people are still getting this wrong. seriously!?!? WERE YOU NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!??????

I think you need to calm down a bit, otherwise you'll end up in purgatory JUST LIKE ON THE ISLAND LOL!!!!111

SEE?!??! MICHAEL KEATON WAS DEAD ALL ALONG!!!!
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby MacCready on Thu May 27, 2010 11:12 am

so sorry wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:I don't understand how the writers go through the trouble of having a character say everything that happened on the island really happened, and people still think everyone was dead the entire time. Ja?



Devil's Advocate wrote:Maybe because the character who said that WAS DEAD TOO!


You can't trust dead people - they're full of shit.
And maggots. After a while.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby ironic name on Thu May 27, 2010 11:54 am

Fried Gold wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:
Fievel wrote:
papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.



i can't believe people are still getting this wrong. seriously!?!? WERE YOU NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!??????

I think you need to calm down a bit, otherwise you'll end up in purgatory JUST LIKE ON THE ISLAND LOL!!!!111

SEE?!??! MICHAEL KEATON WAS DEAD ALL ALONG!!!!

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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu May 27, 2010 12:06 pm

ironic name wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:
Fievel wrote:
papalazeru wrote: Glad I didn't take this show seriously cos I predicted (as like quite a few people), they were all dead to start with.



i can't believe people are still getting this wrong. seriously!?!? WERE YOU NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!??????

I think you need to calm down a bit, otherwise you'll end up in purgatory JUST LIKE ON THE ISLAND LOL!!!!111

SEE?!??! MICHAEL KEATON WAS DEAD ALL ALONG!!!!

Image


vincent looks a little different in that picture
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Thoughts after the Finale of LOST

Postby LostInHouse on Thu May 27, 2010 1:37 pm

After watching the finale again, I realized something. The Island Desmond and MIB were both confused on how they were supposed to GO HOME. MIB thought he could go home by leaving the island. Island Desmond thought he could go home by going into the light of the island. But the opposite for each was true. Let me explain:

Desmond was our clue to understanding what MIB / Smokey meant when he said that he wanted to go home. When Widmore shot Desmond up with a full blast of electromagnetic energy, I think a that island Desmond's consciousness switched places with the Desmond who was still "LOST" in the sideways world. In the sideways world, when Charlie helped Desmond to "remember", Both Desmonds were enlightened. Everyone is the sideways world who had been enlightened were waiting for the other LOSTIES to join them before they could move on.

So, the already enlightened Desmond was on the island instead being in the "waiting room". He was no longer afraid. He was just waiting for his friends so that he and Penelope would move on into the Light. That is why Desmond was guessing that MIB was taking him to the "Bright Light", - so he could finally go home. But this Desmond was in the wrong world, and the Light that he saw did not take him anywhere.

The Desmond in the sideways world was going against Mrs. Hawkings warnings because he was trying to Speed up the process. He knew what was waiting for him and Penny, and he did not want to WAIT for the others to slowly "Wake UP". So Desmond began "helping" them remember things more quickly.

Did Jacob send Desmond to the island to help "free" his brother from his worse than death fate of being a Smoke Monster for eternity? I think so. The Light and water formed a barrier in the heart of the island that Smokey could never cross to go "home". That is why the Smoke Monster was "trapped". But MIB's soul was trapped inside of Smokey and so, MIB was just trying to leave the island and go across the sea just as he did when he was living.

Smokey has never been able to cross the water in Smoke form. So, Jacob needed someone who would be able to remove the cork and drain the water so that Smokey could return to the bowels of the island. To do that, this person had to build up enough resistence to the Electromagnetic Energy so that they could survive long enough to pull the cork out. Once the Cork was removed, the evil fueled by the magnetic energy was returned to the earth and MIB became mortal. Once MIB was mortal he could die like anyone else, and his soul would be free, and so it was.

But now, the island and the Life giving Light were in danger of being destroyed. Jack, did the job he was convinced was his destiny. He fixed the island, saved the world, But more importantly, He fixed himself and he protected the Light....

The same Light that would lead them all home in the end.

Without the Light, they never would have found each other again. And that is how the two "worlds" were able to merge together.

Jacob redeemed himself by dedicating his life AND DEATH in pursuit of correcting the one "SIN" he was responsible for. I think it is really important to remember at this time, WHY it was such an important theme throughout the entire series for Jacob to give CHOICES to those who were on the island. The people that Jacob brought to the island were broken, and like Jacob said: They needed the island as much as the island needed them. Their pasts didn't matter, their slates were wiped clean, and the responsibility for whatever happened to them while they were ON the island rested souly in their own hands.

Every person on the island made the choices that determined their ultimate fate. This was the MAJOR rule on the island. Everyone who came to the island MUST be allowed to make their own choices, even if the options to choose from were less than desirable. What must be done now, is to go back and figure out what choices each person made that led them to their end story.

So, in the end, Jacob redeemed himself. MIB - I feel should not be held responsible for what happened to him because it WASN'T his choice. He didn't choose to become this evil Monster. His soul was helplessly lost inside this creature that was so hideous, it was forced to live in the fiery bowels of the island. A punishment worse than death that he had to endure for over 2000 years.

I don't think that Jacob or MIB needed any time in purgatory. Jacob and MIB have been "awake" for VERY long time. You could almost view the island as their own private purgatory. When they were finally set free, they knew EXACTLY what they wanted
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby Bloo on Thu May 27, 2010 7:44 pm

I watched the finale, finally last night, and all I really have to add i tat I really loved it. I was talking in the talkbacks around season1 season2 about the theme I was seeing was redemtation.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby RogueScribner on Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:21 am

I just rewatched the finale again and that makes twice now I cried like a baby during the Claire-Charlie reunion and also the final moments.

They may not have explained every mystery on the series, but I think it was still a pretty emotionally satisfying ending.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheBaxter on Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:42 am

i rewatched it again this weekend, and i think i may have cried MORE this time, just from knowing what it was all leading up to.
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby swoop91 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:11 pm

RogueScribner wrote:I just rewatched the finale again and that makes twice now I cried like a baby during the Claire-Charlie reunion and also the final moments.

They may not have explained every mystery on the series, but I think it was still a pretty emotionally satisfying ending.


I'd rewatch it again, but I'd just hope that Claire would have been left out off the finale. Or that she dies, twice in a horrible accident.
Or wait, scratch that, I wouldnt watch any lost again post season 2.

Seriously, crying during CLAIRE parts? If anything good came our of Claire-Charlie reunion, was seeing more of Charlie. Not that whining aussie
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Re: LOST SEASON 6 (SPOILERS)

Postby RogueScribner on Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:06 pm

The Claire-Charlie flashbacks were cute and romantic. Sue me, I'm a sucker for that shit.
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