Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Discuss all the finest actors, living or dead -- their films, their talents, and their weird, drug-related escapades.

Big name star or recogisable series?

I see films for the people acting in them
2
8%
I don't care who's in them, as long as it's a good film
13
52%
I hate films with big stars in them
0
No votes
I look for the director's name
7
28%
The studio behind it holds some weight
0
No votes
KONG
3
12%
 
Total votes : 25

Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:30 am

Link to Guardian article called "Up above the world so high".

The above is an interesting piece which argues that the days of the A-list film star are dying out - that nobody has the drawing power or mystique of past stars and even the modern power players like Tom Cruise are on the way down.

I do think the days of the true, full-on marquee names has passed (there are only a handful of names which people will go to see regardless of the film) and this is reflected in the way the studios/distributors appear to be more interested in "franchises", possibly now aways on the search for the next big thing that will give them those big repeat successes.

Thinking back....the Star Wars name always had more draw than any actor in them. I've never tended to be loyal to any one particular actor, more to what might be interesting about the story.

What do people think? Are there any actors whose films you'll go to see specifically for them? Do you think that franchises have taken the place of the stars?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Hermanator X on Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:56 am

Personally, the director has more of a pull for me than either the star or the franchise.
My rankings would be...

1. Story/Genre im interested in.
2. Director.
3. Franchise.
4. Star\Cast.

If the first point isnt ticked, then im not interested, no matter who is in it. So to me, movie stars dont matter. They do somewhat influence my optimism towards a project, but not to an extent that I must see the next star vehicle just because someone I like is in it.

Im trying to think of an A list actor that I HAVE to see every movie, but im drawing a blank.

On the other hand, I dont ignore movies because of who is in them either.

(Not the best post, but im posting from work, and cant find the words im looking for right now)
...and so forth.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:18 am

My wife loves: George Clooney, Will Smif, Brad Pitt. She will watch any of these guys in any movie, regardless of the plot/story/point.

And I know she is not alone in this thinking.

So yeah, I strongly believe* that :a) there are still A-list stars, and b) they still draw viewers based solely on their star power.

I think that comparing today's A-list stars to previous generations is really like comparing apples and oranges. There is so much more to choose from these days, and the rise (and fall) of movie stars happen at such an alarming rate in our generation. So maybe the argument shouldn't be "Is the A-List Dead", but more like "How Long Does an Actor Stay on the A-List?" (boy, that's a clunky statement, but I hope you get my drift)



P.S. Tom Cruise is a terrible example in this argument. He was an A-list actor for many, many years, and it could be argued that he still is. His movie star status has certainly waned in recent years, but that's just how things can happen over time. Cruise shouldn't be used as an example of the Death of the A-List. If anything, he should be applauded for having the staying power that he did.



*I have no data to support anything I've stated above...just my gut feelings
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby stereosforgeeks on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:52 am

I think So Sorry's got a really good point about the A-Listers Hoiw long does someone stay at the top. Pitt, Clooney, etc... are definitely biug draws for people and havce been for awhile but do we really want to think of Lohan, etc... as A List draws? In my book that type of celebrity is a media curiosity at best.

Anyway, I definitely dont go see a movie I'm not interested in even if it's got a bunch of "stars" in it. I will, however, end up watching films from a director I like regardless of story. The director is THE draw for me and then the story.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Vegeta on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:17 am

I know that many people will go see a film because of who is starring or directing. However for me, I usually will go see a film because of the story or plot, first and foremost. If anything I will avoid films because of who is directing or involved (Bay, Lucas, lately Spielberg).
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:23 am

Yeah, I think the general consensus here in the Zone is that a particular star/director doesn't necessarily translate to butts-in-seats. And I think there may be a few threads dedicated to that subject.

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the topic at hand is this: Is the A-List Star phenomenon dead? Has ensemble casts and franchise properties taken the place of Big-Name Actor? And if so, is that the result of the film-going public, or the result of studios trying to save a buck?

Discuss...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:43 am

I can't see how it would save them money....

...the budget's tend to be maintained throughout the series (although the pattern varies from franchise to franchise)
...a good quality ensemble cast must come in at the same price as having one or two big name stars.
...most of these big series have VFX playing a big part, which also must be expensive
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Spandau Belly on Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:54 pm

I think star power is a matter of people wanting to see the same stars the same way in the same types of movies. People want to see George Clooney as a suave leading man in thrillers and so movies where he plays that type of role make money and please fans regardless of quality whereas his stuff like Solaris Remake won't even draw a crowd.

This is why everybody got all mad at Vin Diesel, the guy had a promising career as an action guy but his fans weren't going to follow him into roles where had sleeves and hair.

As for the series/franchise thing, I don't know how much loyalty there is to those either. I mean, lots of people turned out to see how The Matrix and Pirates of the Caribean series ended, but most people felt let down with those sequels.

As for directors. I dunno. Most people I know outside of this chatboard don't even know many directors' names. I know people who love every Michael Mann movie but don't know his name or that the same guy directed all those movies. But it seems some level branding can catch on with the mass public. Lots of people I know who don't follow directors love M. Nigth Shyamalan and will see anything with his name on it but they have no idea who James Cameron is. Same seems to go for Judd Apatow even though it's unclear as to what Apatow himself does on most of the projects on which his name appears. Certain guys just seem to be able to create brands for themselves that the public can remember.

I kinda combine the director and the overall look of the project to decide whether I'm interested. For example, Ridley Scott directing something gets me somewhat interested, but then when I see the trailer and it looks like a movie about Russel Crowe as an uptight businessman who goes to Italy and falls in a well and finds love, I then decide to pass on seeing it.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby John-Locke on Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:56 pm

Interesting thread.

I think there are a few Actors for whom I will almost always see their latest film based on their star power (which means they have the clout to only do projects which they consider to be worthy of their time). Clooney, Pitt, Damon, DiCaprio, Bale (and to a lesser extent) Hanks fall into this category. There are others like Bana, Day Lewis, Downey Jr, Mortenssen, Farrell & Daniel Craig etc who are leading men but not currently considered as A-List who's films I will usually see because they don't seem to be in it for the money as much as their craft and usually pick projects accordingly. Having said that I'm almost as likely to track down a film because of a character Actor appearing in it, be it Ciarán Hinds, Buscemi, Michael Shannon or whoever (there are too many to list).

I like Will Smith and Cruise as actors but they make bad choices sometimes so just because their name is attached doesn't guarantee my arse in a seat.

However if Spielberg, The Coens, Lynch, Malick, Aronofsky, Jackson etc have a new film out I'm almost certainly going to see it as soon as possible in the cinema.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:03 pm

As much as some of us here might not like all the choices or the films that Will Smith makes, he is without a doubt, right now, the closest thing we have to an A-Lister...
He is at the moment (and this is not just my opinion, but been mentioned by many different places) without a doubt the most bankable star in Hollywood.

8 straight $100 million or more grossing films...
Which is a record...

If you remove Ali, Bagger Vance (and possible Enemy of the State, I forget it that cracked $100 million or not...) than he would have like 11 or 12 straight blockbusters...starting with Independence Day...

Like I said, you might not like everything he does, but the majority of the movie-going public does...
Which, in the minds of the studios at least, makes him an A-Lister...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:13 pm

I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Al Shut on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:16 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.


How about no?

The question what is it about defoinetely always comes before who is in it.

Actors sometimes tend to make different movie and with your approach I might end up seeing Legends of the Fall.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:22 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it


And I'm assuming the fact that most small arthouse and independent films get released on like 5-100 screens when something like The Dark Knight gets like 9000 screens has nothing to do with the amount of people who see the films...?


Rolf van der Berg wrote:whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.


I would love to exist as an excerpt from a film...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:25 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it


And I'm assuming the fact that most small arthouse and independent films get released on like 5-100 screens when something like The Dark Knight gets like 9000 screens has nothing to do with the amount of people who see the films...?



Thank you for backing up my comments. That people don't see a lot of these small films, not because they don't have good stories but in some cases have better ones, but because they have unknowns in them. Thank you.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:29 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:
Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it


And I'm assuming the fact that most small arthouse and independent films get released on like 5-100 screens when something like The Dark Knight gets like 9000 screens has nothing to do with the amount of people who see the films...?



Thank you for backing up my comments. That people don't see a lot of these small films, not because they don't have good stories but in some cases have better ones, but because they have unknowns in them. Thank you.


Umm...no...my reason that people aren't seeing the films because they don't get the promotion or release that the wider films get...so even if the majority of us wanted to see this films just because they sounded interesting, we can't...

That's my point...

Now you can thank me...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:30 pm

Does anybody else think that if Batman and other such big draw films like superhero films had total unknowns in them, that less people would see them? Replace the names of Michael Caine, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Christian Bale, Heath Ledger with 'who?' names, the box office draw would be a lot less to say the least. You all know that. To deny it means you are stupid or lying.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

havocSchultz wrote:Umm...no...my reason that people aren't seeing the films because they don't get the promotion or release that the wider films get...so even if the majority of us wanted to see this films just because they sounded interesting, we can't...

That's my point...

Now you can thank me...


Throw a lot of money at a movie with unknown names in that same film, then do all the same with a known name, you will then see that more people by far would see the film with the bigger more known names. Do you really think The Machinist or something else along these lines would be seen by as many people if you replaced Christian Bale with someone you've never heard of before?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:34 pm

Al Shut wrote:
Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.


How about no?

The question what is it about defoinetely always comes before who is in it.

Actors sometimes tend to make different movie and with your approach I might end up seeing Legends of the Fall.


You wouldn't even remember or even come across the title, 'Legends of the Fall' as much if it had unknown names in it as much as you do due to it having big names in it. You know that.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:38 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:Umm...no...my reason that people aren't seeing the films because they don't get the promotion or release that the wider films get...so even if the majority of us wanted to see this films just because they sounded interesting, we can't...

That's my point...

Now you can thank me...


Throw a lot of money at a movie with unknown names in that same film, then do all the same with a known name, you will then see that more people by far would see the film with the bigger more known names. Do you really think The Machinist or something else along these lines would be seen by as many people if you replaced Christian Bale with someone you've never heard of before?


How 'bout Blair With Project or My Big studly Greek Wedding, or Star Wars, or Jaws, or Titanic, or etc...most of their stars were either unknowns, or basic known names...
Many were made stars after the films hit big...
But not before...

Rolf van der Berg wrote:Does anybody else think that if Batman and other such big draw films like superhero films had total unknowns in them, that less people would see them? Replace the names of Michael Caine, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Christian Bale, Heath Ledger with 'who?' names, the box office draw would be a lot less to say the least. You all know that. To deny it means you are stupid or lying.


And please, call us liars and stupid some more for trying to voice our opinions, I'm sure eventually you'll get your point across...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Al Shut on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:41 pm

Counter exampel

currently I'm very interested in the upcoming Watchmen movie.

Of all actors involved I only know one name, Cruddup (sp?) which I have only seen in one previous movie.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:47 pm

What you are quoting are the exceptions. For all of those movies that you mentioned there are hundreds of others out there with extremely good stories with no known actors in them that people don't see as much as if they had bigger actors in them. It is one of the reasons why such films as Greek Wedding hit big is because they are the exception and it is so rare that a film with unknown names in them like this hit big, that it actually makes movie headlines or news. Oh look! A hit movie with unknowns in it! If it was more common to be satisfying, then we wouldn't bat an eyelid. Also if those movies that two posters have just mentioned had bigger names in them, you would have even more people seeing them. If they had big names in it like Julia Roberts or Angelina Jolie, more people would be seeing them. If No Country For Old Men had a name the size of Brad Pitt in it or Will Smith, then people would be flocking to see that movie.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:51 pm

Born on the Fourth of July, Interview with a Vampire, Days of Thunder, Jerry Maguire, would have barely been made without an A Lister actor like Tom Cruise in the film, let alone had such a wide audience if it had an unknown actor top billing and carrying and selling the movie. Most people would pay a lot less attention to these titles and synopsises if it had a more unknown name attached to it.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby papalazeru on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:55 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:Born on the Fourth of July, Interview with a Vampire, Days of Thunder, Jerry Maguire, would have barely been made without an A Lister actor like Tom Cruise in the film, let alone had such a wide audience if it had an unknown actor top billing and carrying and selling the movie. Most people would pay a lot less attention to these titles and synopsises if it had a more unknown name attached to it.


What the hell's wrogn with Day of Thunder. After Top Gun we wanted more of the same with another hot chick and Nicole was fit in her prime.
Born on the fourth of July was an excellent film which I feel could have done better if Tom Cruise were not in it. That film does not souley rely on Cruise.
Jerry Macguire was a good chick flick in it's own right and was really quite funny.

I just think you're in love Tom Cruise and want little space babies with him.

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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Hermanator X on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:56 pm

Rolf we are not talking about excluding movies because they have stars in them.
But this may come as a shock, but some of us do watch a lot of movies, including those which contain big names. We arent trying to come across as elitist, far from it. Merely discussing what is the main pull in seeing a movie we have a lot of interest in.
Who is in a movie does play a part, but its not the defining factor, and thats the point you are missing.
...and so forth.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:00 pm

Hermanator X wrote:Rolf we are not talking about excluding movies because they have stars in them.


I never said you were. Merely the opposite. Thank you for backing me up.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:03 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:
Hermanator X wrote:Rolf we are not talking about excluding movies because they have stars in them.


I never said you were. Merely the opposite. Thank you for backing me up.



I like it how when somebody disagrees with you, you still think they're agreeing with you...
Which pretty much makes this whole conversation pointless because I could get further with a fucking wall...

So I wanna thank you Rolf for reiterating what we all said and proving our point that people will most definitely, and almost always go see a film based solely on what it's about...
Fuck the people who are in it, it doesn't matter to anybody...I'm glad we're finally on the same page...thanks for coming out...
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Al Shut on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:04 pm

All good exampels and I never intend, and I guess neither did havoc , to imply Stars play not a big role in selling a movie.

The objection was more to your previous post that sounded much more strict, talking for everybody else. Because for me I can 100% surely, without any pretension, assure you your assumptoin is wrong. It's story before cast for me (of course an interstineng cast/director can get me interesetd in an boring sounding story too).


Ijn reality it's an very hard to predict mix of story, cast/director, marketting/studio backing and zeitgeist that sells a movie.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby havocSchultz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:08 pm

For me it''s the tits that sell it...

And I don't care if they're big name tits...or small independent tits...or everything in between tits...
To quoth Shakespeare - "All of life's a tit...and we are merely fingers..."
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:13 pm

Al Shut wrote:All good exampels and I never intend, and I guess neither did havoc , to imply Stars play not a big role in selling a movie.

The objection was more to your previous post that sounded much more strict, talking for everybody else. Because for me I can 100% surely, without any pretension, assure you your assumptoin is wrong. It's story before cast for me


For YOU it is. But for many others, unfortunately it is not. And I think also, that if a story alone has already sold a person on a film alone, a known name rather than an unknown name, more often than not, will sell that movie more. Like it or not, there's a lot of people when hearing a title that they know nothing about, they always ask first who is in it, rather than what it is about. Take the argument to big studios that story sells movies more than an actor's name in it. They'll show you the math and have security pulling you out of the office by your ears.

As far as Havocshutz is concerned, my comments have indirectly been backed up here.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Peven on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:17 pm

has anyone besides me avoided seeing a movie with a favorite A-list actor/actress because you just KNEW the movie was going to suck and you didn't want your image of how good that actor/actress was to suffer?


edit: or......do you relish seeing an A-lister go down in flames?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:20 pm

Peven wrote:has anyone besides me avoided seeing a movie with a favorite A-list actor/actress because you just KNEW the movie was going to suck and you didn't want your image of how good that actor/actress was to suffer?


edit: or......do you relish seeing an A-lister go down in flames?


I know many of you saw Hancock based on the premise that Will Smith can do no wrong. Look at the box office of that.

And, let's not forget that atrocity that was I Robot, and I am Legend.

There's another star that's trying to make money by solely promoting himself.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:24 pm

Peven wrote:has anyone besides me avoided seeing a movie with a favorite A-list actor/actress because you just KNEW the movie was going to suck and you didn't want your image of how good that actor/actress was to suffer?


edit: or......do you relish seeing an A-lister go down in flames?


Not nearly as many as those that do see the movie as a A list actor/actress is in it.
A lot of the general population are not film enthusiasts as there are here, and for these people who don't follow movies as closely, they need more things to sell a movie to them than just a story premise. A lot of the time more often than not, it is a big star, whether A list or not that does this. If an A list star put people off of a movie to be of a significant difference then they would not be as big a movie star. Do the math. The studios tell all this, no matter how may people here don't like this, and for any people who are put off of a movie due to a name, there are thousands more that DO watch it due to that name.
Inglorious Bastards. Thousands more people will see that film if it had Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, and Brad Pitt in it than if it had total unknowns in it. To argue with that makes you someone who just likes to disagree or just a total blind idiot. Let's do 2 versions of the film, one without these such big actors in them, and one with total unknowns. No matter if one film is better than the other, more people would see the version with bigger names in it than the ones with unknowns. You all know that.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby papalazeru on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:25 pm

Rolf is a fluffer.

As well as a Tom Cruise lover.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Al Shut on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:26 pm

Peven wrote:has anyone besides me avoided seeing a movie with a favorite A-list actor/actress because you just KNEW the movie was going to suck and you didn't want your image of how good that actor/actress was to suffer?


edit: or......do you relish seeing an A-lister go down in flames?



If I" know" a movie is going to suck I tend to avoid them because they're going to suck. No sympatie involved.

What kind of sick masichist would watch a bad movie just to see a famous actor do bad?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:29 pm

Al Shut wrote:What kind of sick masichist would watch a bad movie just to see a famous actor do bad?


So I guess you weren't part of the Snakes on a Plane crowd then?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Al Shut on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:31 pm

I boycotted that for animal rights reasons.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:05 pm

Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.


Bullshit.
You know what i watched last night?
Troll 2.

Do you know who's in Troll 2?
I've seen it about 20 times & i couldn't tell you the name of one person who's in it.
Maybe that's a bad example as i'm currently the only living person who will subject themselves to watching it.


Alright, another example, Chopping Mall (yeah, i've been pimping it like fuck recently).
Do i know who's in chopping mall? Fuck no.
I do know that killer fucking robots are in it, that's good enough for me.


What did i watch before those two?
Machine Girl.
Who's in Machine Girl?
A girl with a machine gun for a fucking hand, that's who.


I don't care who's in the movies i watch, i care about what's in them.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby John-Locke on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:17 pm

First off Kirks, I mean Rolf ;) (apologies if you aren't an alt of the infamous Cpt Kirks 2pay) I agree with pretty much everything you have said in this thread. Joe Public look at the stars and Genre first when selecting a movie, studly Wedding and Blair Witch etc are the exceptions which prove the rule.

Secondly..

Rolf van der Berg wrote: Let's do 2 versions of the film, one without these such big actors in them, and one with total unknowns. No matter if one film is better than the other, more people would see the version with bigger names in it than the ones with unknowns. You all know that.


Exactly, like with Mann's L.A Takedown and Heat (although L.A Takedown wasn't shown in the cinemas) Sure Heat has bigger stars, better set pieces etc but L.A Takedown is a better film.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:26 pm

King Of Nowhere wrote:
Rolf van der Berg wrote:I think anyone who says that they see a movie based on story first above what actors are in it, are lying. How many times have we all liked to think this, but when we are confronted with a movie title we've never seen before we always ask what actors are in it before we take a proper interest in the film? It is then that we ask what the story is about. Do we really go out of our way and make a determined effort to see a film based on a little synopsis of a story primarily regardless of the actors? That's why small art house independent films or foreign films don't make nearly as much money as the films with familiar actors names in it whether they are big A list actors or lesser larger actors? Come on. People who say the opposite are just wannabe pretend to be film excerpts and hypocrits.


Bullshit.
You know what i watched last night?
Troll 2.

Do you know who's in Troll 2?
I've seen it about 20 times & i couldn't tell you the name of one person who's in it.
Maybe that's a bad example as i'm currently the only living person who will subject themselves to watching it.


Alright, another example, Chopping Mall (yeah, i've been pimping it like fuck recently).
Do i know who's in chopping mall? Fuck no.
I do know that killer fucking robots are in it, that's good enough for me.


What did i watch before those two?
Machine Girl.
Who's in Machine Girl?
A girl with a machine gun for a fucking hand, that's who.


I don't care who's in the movies i watch, i care about what's in them.


I know nothing about these films and many more out there who know less about films than me know even less about these films. And that's because there's no stars in them. Thank you for backing me up.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:34 pm

Call yourself a fan of films?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:38 pm

If your argument is that you only see films because of who's in them, well i 100% agree.

But don't go lumping the rest of us in with you.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Vegeta on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:43 pm

I would wager from a purely marketing stand point what you are saying is basically true, Rolf... however, stars certainly aren't the only factor. Just plain hype has a lot to do with it too. I know people who saw There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men, who had no idea what they were about or who was in them... just heard the buzz the their "really good". Ofcourse, these folks also ended up not liking either film.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby stereosforgeeks on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:54 pm

What about the question of how many A-listers are left?

Doesnt that get factored in at all?
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby instant_karma on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:01 pm

Rolf, I think you are putting the cart before the horse as it were.

I think most moviegoers decide to see a movie based on their overall awareness of the movie. That awareness might have come to them in the form of a preview at another movie, an online clip, newspaper reviews, one of the stars promoting it on a talk show or most likely, some combination of these things. And a big name actor being in the movie will have an effect on these outlets of awareness. Talk shows and newspapers are much more eager to bag an interview with Will Smith than some young actor appearing in their first movie. Similarly, a big name actor will almost always result in an increased marketing budget for any given movie, which allows the marketing folks to buy more online ad space, billboards, tv spots, etc.

Sometimes unknown performers will manage to get into these awareness outlets for whatever reason, and that usually does result in the movie doing better, because the public has more awareness of it. A good recent example is Once. It was never going to be a huge hit, but I'm sure that the two unknown leads doing the talk show circuit in the US had a considerable inpact on it's performance over there. I doubt many people going to see it were asking for the ticket for the Glen Hansard movie.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Chris a.k.a StuntMike on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:04 pm

The director is the draw for me.

Clooney is a true A-list movie star. I know David O.Russell had a problem with him mugging it up for the camera but man, that's his thing. Michael Clayton nailed his A-list status for me.

And I miss Sydney Pollack.

Plus I've never been a fan of David O.Russell or any of his films(probably alone here on that one) :wink:
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Chris a.k.a StuntMike on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:12 pm

havocSchultz wrote:For me it''s the tits that sell it...

And I don't care if they're big name tits...or small independent tits...or everything in between tits...
To quoth Shakespeare - "All of life's a tit...and we are merely fingers..."

To quote Gary Wallace - "Anything more than a handful, and your risking a sprained thumb" :mrgreen:
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:10 pm

John-Locke wrote:First off Kirks, I mean Rolf ;) (apologies if you aren't an alt of the infamous Cpt Kirks 2pay)

I got PM asking same thing. Is he a member of here?

I agree with pretty much everything you have said in this thread. Joe Public look at the stars and Genre first when selecting a movie, studly Wedding and Blair Witch etc are the exceptions which prove the rule.

Secondly..

Rolf van der Berg wrote: Let's do 2 versions of the film, one without these such big actors in them, and one with total unknowns. No matter if one film is better than the other, more people would see the version with bigger names in it than the ones with unknowns. You all know that.


Exactly, like with Mann's L.A Takedown and Heat (although L.A Takedown wasn't shown in the cinemas) Sure Heat has bigger stars, better set pieces etc but L.A Takedown is a better film.

I think that is what I was trieing to say. For general people in the public, they see many times "MOVIE WITH THIS ACTOR IN".

For example and if they asked somebody "Do you want to see "The Matrix"?", they would get a reply of "Who is in it?".

Only the established actor names, or established brand names, get the instant recognition.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:10 pm

King Of Nowhere wrote:If your argument is that you only see films because of who's in them, well i 100% agree.


But I wasn't. I never said that. You're comment about me lumbering people in with me is totally wrong. You're discussion is poor.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby The Vicar on Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:30 pm

Thus Rolf/Kirk :
"For example and if they asked somebody "Do you want to see "The Matrix"?", they would get a reply of "Who is in it?". "

Or, if they're smarter than the people you'd ask, they would first say "what the hell is it about?".

That's what most of the people I know would ask first.
Most of the people in this Zone.
For me, and for many others prowling this place, it's the story that comes first.
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Re: Is the era of the A-list movie star over?

Postby Rolf van der Berg on Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:37 pm

The Vicar wrote:Thus Rolf/Kirk :
"For example and if they asked somebody "Do you want to see "The Matrix"?", they would get a reply of "Who is in it?". "

Or, if they're smarter than the people you'd ask, they would first say "what the hell is it about?".

That's what most of the people I know would ask first.
Most of the people in this Zone.
For me, and for many others prowling this place, it's the story that comes first.

Yes I think this too. People in the Zone know better and ask the important questions.

But I meant the general public. I know many people who would say "Who is in the film?" firstly, then find out what it was about.
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