Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility..?)

Which director made the best films, made the best visuals, or smelled the best? This is the forum to find out.

What do YOU think about George Lucas?

No Talent Hack
8
20%
One of the All-Time Best
15
37%
Grow up, fanboys.
18
44%
 
Total votes : 41

Postby Chilli on Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:48 pm

Intriguing. Not sure how it'll work within a film, but that's half the fun.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby TheButcher on Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:42 pm

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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:45 pm




I bet the Lucas-lawyers will have plenty of fun with this!
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:01 pm

Yeah because they are sooooo well known for stifling the fan film community and prop replica makers. :roll:
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:03 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:Yeah because they are sooooo well known for stifling the fan film community and prop replica makers. :roll:



Jeebus Kaga, you are such a wet blanket... I was just making a joke.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:03 pm

so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Yeah because they are sooooo well known for stifling the fan film community and prop replica makers. :roll:



Jeebus Kaga, you are such a wet blanket... I was just making a joke.


I was agreeing with you.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby so sorry on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:Yeah because they are sooooo well known for stifling the fan film community and prop replica makers. :roll:



Jeebus Kaga, you are such a wet blanket... I was just making a joke.


I was agreeing with you.


Well in that case, you're a warm blanket of cuddlyness, and I thank you. :wink:

(it was your :roll: that threw me off)
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:34 am

I love that the plaid in his shirt came through in the freezing process.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:41 am




If only they could have done that in '82.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:31 pm

Irvin Kershner is Kermit The Frog. That is all...
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George Lucas and Harrison Ford

Postby astroheart on Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:38 am

Lucas realized the importance of Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones. Too bad he did not realize how important he was for the Star Wars series. I mean, haven't anyone noticed what was missing in the second trilogy? Just imagine Harrison Ford in the mix. maybe the story line had no room for Han Solo, but he could have been thrown in the mix as his own father, or grand-dad, I don't know. I would have liked it more.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby DDMAN26 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:26 pm

My feelings about Lucas are he's created worlds that I have enjoyed and will probably continue to enjoy visting. What happens there isn't always perfect or even good but I've enjoyed it.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:04 am

The biggest problem for me is that Anakin Skywalker isn't that interesting anymore. I hate to admit the fact that it has a large part to do with Hayden Christiansen, but it sadly does. He didn't play Anakin very well but even if someone else had played Anakin better, we already know what's going to happen to him, let's move on.

Lucas needs to start introducing NEW CHARACTERS! The Star Wars universe is probably the most massive fictional universe, there are so many other characters already invented (Kyle Katarn please) or chances to invent new characters, why go back to Anakin?
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:11 pm

Heyoucantlaughatthat wrote:Lucas needs to start introducing NEW CHARACTERS! The Star Wars universe is probably the most massive fictional universe, there are so many other characters already invented (Kyle Katarn please) or chances to invent new characters, why go back to Anakin?

Reports/rumours seem to suggest that the live-action Star Wars TV series will be using new or less-well known characters.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby RogueScribner on Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:41 pm

I would love to see KOTOR dramatized. Characters most people aren't familiar with, new setting, new conflicts, same Star Wars action and pulp adventure.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Peven on Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:47 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
Heyoucantlaughatthat wrote:Lucas needs to start introducing NEW CHARACTERS! The Star Wars universe is probably the most massive fictional universe, there are so many other characters already invented (Kyle Katarn please) or chances to invent new characters, why go back to Anakin?

Reports/rumours seem to suggest that the live-action Star Wars TV series will be using new or less-well known characters.



the whole prequel concept is the fundamental flaw to Lucas's work over the last 15 years. as soon as he decided to go backward with the SW story instead of forward he was digging himself a hole. not a wise choice at all. imo it is an indication of his own insecurity as a storyteller. but also fans already had a pre-conceived idea of what the past was in the SW universe that he would have to deal with, and he didn't count on that, imo because he never has given the audience credit for having competent minds of their own. when you do a prequel, what you are doing is creating a beginning for something that already has an ending. a big part of the work of creating the story is already done. you know where the story needs to go. BUT, if he had made part 7 he would have had to break new ground, come up with a destination for the characters and story. daunting. especially for a guy who is more hung up on the visual/technical aspects of making a movie than working on his ability to create characters and tell their story. and now, with the latest animated movie and live action tv show he is STILL pussying out of breaking new ground with the SW story.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:15 pm

I've been under the assumption that Lucas is dwelling in prequel territory, because of the mess he's made with episodes 1-3. It's like he keeps going back and trying to fix things, like Dr. Sam Beckett off of Quantum Leap.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby RogueScribner on Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:24 pm

I'm not saying it was a bad idea to do the prequels--I mean, when you (retroactively) start the series with "Episode IV", people expect to see I - III--but the story was told, for better or worse, and it's time to move on. Mining the Clone Wars for more material just reeks of fanboy pandering and going for the easy cash grab. Peven is right (fuck!): the stories that should be told are before and after the movies, not during. Maybe the live action series will rectify this a bit since it takes place between the two trilogies, but ultimately the same problem exists: we all know where its heading. If Star Wars is to thrive it needs to break new ground, not keep digging in the same hole it has been for the past 10 years.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:08 pm

Peven wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
Heyoucantlaughatthat wrote:Lucas needs to start introducing NEW CHARACTERS! The Star Wars universe is probably the most massive fictional universe, there are so many other characters already invented (Kyle Katarn please) or chances to invent new characters, why go back to Anakin?

Reports/rumours seem to suggest that the live-action Star Wars TV series will be using new or less-well known characters.



the whole prequel concept is the fundamental flaw to Lucas's work over the last 15 years. as soon as he decided to go backward with the SW story instead of forward he was digging himself a hole. not a wise choice at all. imo it is an indication of his own insecurity as a storyteller. but also fans already had a pre-conceived idea of what the past was in the SW universe that he would have to deal with, and he didn't count on that, imo because he never has given the audience credit for having competent minds of their own. when you do a prequel, what you are doing is creating a beginning for something that already has an ending. a big part of the work of creating the story is already done. you know where the story needs to go. BUT, if he had made part 7 he would have had to break new ground, come up with a destination for the characters and story. daunting. especially for a guy who is more hung up on the visual/technical aspects of making a movie than working on his ability to create characters and tell their story. and now, with the latest animated movie and live action tv show he is STILL pussying out of breaking new ground with the SW story.

He would run into much of those same problems again working after ANH/ESB/RotJ. Considering he has let so many books, comics, video games etc fill in the time line afterward I doubt he would want to just adapt the Zahn novels or anything. Then if he skips ahead of Luke, Leia et al why would anyone care?
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:28 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:Considering he has let so many books, comics, video games etc fill in the time line afterward I doubt he would want to just adapt the Zahn novels or anything. Then if he skips ahead of Luke, Leia et al why would anyone care?


Because he wouldn't have to retell the stories from any of those other mediums, he could still create new characters, or expand on characters already existing.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Peven on Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:11 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:

He would run into much of those same problems again working after ANH/ESB/RotJ. Considering he has let so many books, comics, video games etc fill in the time line afterward I doubt he would want to just adapt the Zahn novels or anything. Then if he skips ahead of Luke, Leia et al why would anyone care?



comparing the spin off books and comics to the movies is apples and oranges, probably not even that close of a comparison. just in audience size alone the difference is vast. you can't seriously compare the number of those who are familiar with the spin offs you bring up to those who are familiar with the movies. those who would let any of the spin off material get in the way of enjoying a post OS movie represent a minute sliver of the total potential audience for a SW movie. i am a science fiction fan, a kid who grew up with and LOVED the OS and i have very little familiarity, let alone any attachment at all, to the post-OS stuff. imagine how little joe-moviegoer gives a shit
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:33 am

Peven wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:

He would run into much of those same problems again working after ANH/ESB/RotJ. Considering he has let so many books, comics, video games etc fill in the time line afterward I doubt he would want to just adapt the Zahn novels or anything. Then if he skips ahead of Luke, Leia et al why would anyone care?



comparing the spin off books and comics to the movies is apples and oranges, probably not even that close of a comparison. just in audience size alone the difference is vast. you can't seriously compare the number of those who are familiar with the spin offs you bring up to those who are familiar with the movies. those who would let any of the spin off material get in the way of enjoying a post OS movie represent a minute sliver of the total potential audience for a SW movie. i am a science fiction fan, a kid who grew up with and LOVED the OS and i have very little familiarity, let alone any attachment at all, to the post-OS stuff. imagine how little joe-moviegoer gives a shit

Of course Joe Moviegoer also doesn't get his panties in a knot over minor inconsistencies between the OT and the PT. The type of person who does is the same person who would be pissed that all of the Expanded Universe stuff was thrown aside for a new set of Lucas written films while he pretended none of it existed. Then it would just be a constant barrage of fanboys crying over how the other work was or wasn't better.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:14 am

Some people make an awful lot of fuss about the Extended Universe stuff (and how good it is compared to Episodes 1-3) but a lot of it is really poor quality, and often a lot worse than the prequels.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Peven on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:29 am

Fried Gold wrote:Some people make an awful lot of fuss about the Extended Universe stuff (and how good it is compared to Episodes 1-3) but a lot of it is really poor quality, and often a lot worse than the prequels.


which is why it shouldn't be considered any kind of obstacle in continuing the story after the OS
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:36 am

Peven wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Some people make an awful lot of fuss about the Extended Universe stuff (and how good it is compared to Episodes 1-3) but a lot of it is really poor quality, and often a lot worse than the prequels.


which is why it shouldn't be considered any kind of obstacle in continuing the story after the OS

Exactly.

I think the peak of the Extended Universe stuff with that "Thrawn Trilogy" and even that was fairly uneven. Some reckoned that this should've formed the basis of a new post-Return of the Jedi trilogy, but they seem to ignore the fact that it essentially just recycles elements from the original trilogy and isn't that exciting.


(...actually the TIE-Fighter PC game was probably the best non-official film Star Wars thing.)
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:30 am

Fried Gold wrote:
(...actually the TIE-Fighter PC game was probably the best non-official film Star Wars thing.)


I'm not too well read at all in the Star Wars novels, but Kyle Katarn is the most interesting expanded-universe character for my money, and his backstory has a lot of potential.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:35 am

Heyoucantlaughatthat wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
(...actually the TIE-Fighter PC game was probably the best non-official film Star Wars thing.)


I'm not too well read at all in the Star Wars novels, but Kyle Katarn is the most interesting expanded-universe character for my money, and his backstory has a lot of potential.

True...and in addition to TIE-Fighter, I'm adding Dark Forces as tied Best Non-Official-Film Star Wars Thing.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:15 pm

Peven wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Some people make an awful lot of fuss about the Extended Universe stuff (and how good it is compared to Episodes 1-3) but a lot of it is really poor quality, and often a lot worse than the prequels.


which is why it shouldn't be considered any kind of obstacle in continuing the story after the OS


I don't think it would ever even occur to Lucas that the EU stuff would be any sort of obstacle. The EU stuff may have the Lucas label but he's on record during the making of the prequels in stating that only the films are "Canon". He's already in conflict with pretty much everything anybody ever wrote in the past about the Clone Wars.

FG I agree that most of the EU stuff is inferior to the prequels. I liked the Thrawn trilogy quite a bit. I dont think it should serve as the basis for a new set of films, though. It is a bit uneven, and it DEFINITELY recycles stuff from the OT. I thought it was pretty exciting in parts, tho.

Fried Gold wrote:True...and in addition to TIE-Fighter, I'm adding Dark Forces as tied Best Non-Official-Film Star Wars Thing.


I loved Knights of the Old Republic too. Now that probably had a better story than, say, Attack of the Clones.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Peven on Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:59 pm

point is, here we are a quarter century after ROTJ and Lucas has not taken the story a second past the final hokey family portrait shot of that movie. it isn't as if he has had a shortage of time, money, or resources..........
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:07 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Peven wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Some people make an awful lot of fuss about the Extended Universe stuff (and how good it is compared to Episodes 1-3) but a lot of it is really poor quality, and often a lot worse than the prequels.


which is why it shouldn't be considered any kind of obstacle in continuing the story after the OS


I don't think it would ever even occur to Lucas that the EU stuff would be any sort of obstacle. The EU stuff may have the Lucas label but he's on record during the making of the prequels in stating that only the films are "Canon". He's already in conflict with pretty much everything anybody ever wrote in the past about the Clone Wars.

I never meant that is would be an obstacle to him developing further stories. I was just pointing out that contradicting all of the EU stuff would be just as off putting for the fans (the hardcore fans who complain non stop about the prequels) as Peven assessment that Lucas stomped all over fans preconceived notions of the Clone Wars etc. It would probably be worse because fans' imaginations aren't branded and sold as canon like EU (as long as it doesn't contradict George). Peven states this was a major flaw of developing the prequels and I think it would be no different to stomp all over the post ROTJ EU stories, atleast as far as the vocal "fans" are concerned. Now if Peven means he should have just continued after ROTJ in 1987 instead of allowing all these authors and game developers etc to play in the EU until '98 that may have worked.

Peven wrote:the whole prequel concept is the fundamental flaw to Lucas's work over the last 15 years. as soon as he decided to go backward with the SW story instead of forward he was digging himself a hole. not a wise choice at all. imo it is an indication of his own insecurity as a storyteller. but also fans already had a pre-conceived idea of what the past was in the SW universe that he would have to deal with, and he didn't count on that, imo because he never has given the audience credit for having competent minds of their own.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:07 pm

I agree to an extent.

But I think all SW fans, hardcore or not, would have happily done away with their notions of what the Clone Wars, etc., were about if the movies had been better. Same with the EU (but even moreso).

Though maybe it's impossible to write a story compelling enough to compete with the stories that we geeks have been creating in our heads for the past 30 years. I guess that was probably Peven's point to begin with. And I tend to agree.

I consider myself a hard core fan, though, and to me the EU going forward is much less of an issue. I've read all of the books, many of the comics, etc., and I wouldn't be bothered in the least if Lucas wrote a cool sequel trilogy that completely disregards the EU. I've always thought of them as somehow separate from the films. Fun...but different...like a step above fanfic (or, in the case of a few books, a step below).

None of it matters, though, because I don't believe, at this point, that Lucas is capable of writing a sequel trilogy worthy of my interest or the title Star Wars. Hate to say it...but I've FINALLY come around to the fact that Lucas is now creatively bankrupt.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:39 pm

The Clone Wars seemed like such a massive part of the made-up history and mythology that we all thought much more attention would be paid to it.

Instead we got to see the two bookends of it in the films, and a load of cartoons about.

I think that was the biggest disappointment for many. The middle film should've been an epic war film.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Crimson King on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:42 am

I'm not sure who said it, but someone stated that a major reason the prequels didn't work is because of the fact that we already knew what happened to Anakin Skywalker. I disagree with this. Certainly there is an element of "what's gonna happen??" missing, but that doesn't mean the story can't still be compelling. I mean, how many of us didn't know where the story of Harvey Dent was going in The Dark Knight?? I still found it moving and compelling. Hell, my third time watching it, I was still rooting for Harvey. How about the film United 93?? That's another one where we know how it would end. I still found myself rooting for a different outcome. The same happened in Stephen King's Wizard and Glass where I nearly cried when a character met their inevitable fate, a fate we already knew of well in advance.

I don't know why the man who gave us the original trilogy was unable to deliver anything even resembling it. Perhaps it's the people he surrounded himself with back in the day. Perhaps back then, before he became lord almighty, people were actually willing to step up to him and say, "no, George, I don't think that's a good idea..." I don't know what it is. But I know it's not just that we knew Anakin's fate. I mean, perhaps it's because he focused too much on the look of the film and didn't really care about the story or the characters. I don't know.


Anyway, I work at this restaurant here in Chicago, and George Lucas actually came in. I don't know why, 'cause it's not that fancy a place. Anyway, he came in, and I'm so fucking pissed 'cause NO ONE told me he was there. I'm the biggest movie geek in the whole fuckin' joint, and no one even thought, "hey, someone go tell him the Bearded One is here." Fucking bastards. So yeah, although I can say I was in the same place as he was at the same time, sadly I did not get to meet him. The server even showed me the check and everything. All I can say is...he didn't tip as well as I thought he might. Not that it was a BAD tip. Not at all. From anyone else it would've been acceptable...but it wasn't what I would've expected...
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Hermanator X on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:51 am

Salvador Dali used to scribble a drawing on the back of all the cheques he paid with. He knew no one would cash em in cos they would be more valuable than the amount for the meal.
So if you are complaining about a decent, but not great tip, sell the signed reciept on EBAY and cheer up. He made his fortune being cautious with cash, and looking after his own interests well, so it shouldnt come as too big of a surprise.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby RogueScribner on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:29 am

People told Lucas no all the time back in the day. But then he was hailed as a genius and no one ever disagreed with him again. Lucas didn't have the control/resources he wanted for ANH and TESB but he made sure he did from then on out. The signs of things to come was in ROTJ (dumb humor, cuddly toy characters, rehashing past events, stilted dialogue/performances, revisionist history, etc.).
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:43 am

Crimson King wrote:I'm not sure who said it, but someone stated that a major reason the prequels didn't work is because of the fact that we already knew what happened to Anakin Skywalker. I disagree with this. Certainly there is an element of "what's gonna happen??" missing, but that doesn't mean the story can't still be compelling.

I agree with you. Knowing "what's going to happen" doesn't most stories. Confucious say "knowing the path isn't walking the path" etc.

That sort of argument just really hold up, otherwise no historical or period piece would ever be any good. No-one would like Second World War films as we always know the outcome...
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Peven on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:50 am

Fried Gold wrote:
Crimson King wrote:I'm not sure who said it, but someone stated that a major reason the prequels didn't work is because of the fact that we already knew what happened to Anakin Skywalker. I disagree with this. Certainly there is an element of "what's gonna happen??" missing, but that doesn't mean the story can't still be compelling.

I agree with you. Knowing "what's going to happen" doesn't most stories. Confucious say "knowing the path isn't walking the path" etc.

That sort of argument just really hold up, otherwise no historical or period piece would ever be any good. No-one would like Second World War films as we always know the outcome...


except in order to pull that off you have to have good storytelling and directorial skills, and Lucas does not. which is ironic because that is exactly why i think he did prequels instead of sequels, he felt safer going back to fill in the blanks instead of breaking new ground.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:58 pm

I'm sick of people painting Lucas as a poor director. He is no actor's director by far but being a director involves a hell of alot more than motivating the actors on set.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby RogueScribner on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:05 pm

He's a good director and probably an even better editor. He can't direct actors worth shit, however, and his writing abilities are subpar. He can plot out a good story, I suppose, but he can't write good dialogue and some of his character choices are out there. He's an idea man who usually stumbles on the execution. Which is why he surrounded himself with so many talented people in the early days. They helped him birth a Star Wars that was not only watchable, but exciting. It doesn't seem he does that anymore.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby so sorry on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:11 pm

I encourage anyone who wants some Lucas background to seek out the book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls. Peter Biskind goes into great detail about what made Lucas tick back in the 70s, and how he approached Star Wars etc. It was a Zoner Book of the Month selection people!

The reason why it popped into my head was RS's comment about Lucas' editing skillz. IF I'm not mistaken, it was his wife that edited SW.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:24 pm

Lucas is very hands on in editing, more so than most directors though you are correct that his wife was Editor on EPIV and won the Academy Award for it.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:46 pm

RogueScribner wrote:He's a good director and probably an even better editor. He can't direct actors worth shit, however, and his writing abilities are subpar.


i'm not sure how he can be "a good director" if he "can't direct actors worth shit." i'd say he's a poor director for that very reason.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby RogueScribner on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:58 pm

Well, in a movie like THX 1138, the story was king. The actors were really incidental. Directing involves more than coaxing a performance out of someone, though that should be a good chunk of a director's ability. Not every movie depends on great dialogue and acting to sell it. Popcorn movies often succeed despite lacking in those departments. Lucas can handle all the technical aspects of filmmaking, with great results (for the most part). But writing characters and dialogue and coaxing good performances from his actors are not his strong suit. If he wants to make eye candy for the rest of his life, it doesn't really matter. But if he wants to tell a more compelling story, go back to those "personal films" he always says he wants to do, then he'll need to address these shortcomings sooner or later or the films will fail. Despite some performances and a plot point or two, I thought Revenge of the Sith was very well directed. Some of the writing and acting kept it from being great, however.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:06 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:He's a good director and probably an even better editor. He can't direct actors worth shit, however, and his writing abilities are subpar.


i'm not sure how he can be "a good director" if he "can't direct actors worth shit." i'd say he's a poor director for that very reason.

Because being a director involves much more than simply blocking out the actors and holding their hands while working through scenes. In fact that's probably the least focus of any director since outside of the blocking most of that work is supposed to come from the actor.

Rogue beat me to it.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:26 pm

to be a good director, someone should be able to do ALL of that, including directing the actors. sure the actors are responsible for their own performances, but it's up to the director to make sure their acting choices work together and support the overall film... and especially in film, where they do several takes of each scene and the director is responsible for choosing which takes to use, the director is at least as important in shaping a performance as the actor, and more important in making the overall performances work off of each other. i think lucas is a perfect example of just why being able to direct actors is so vital to being a good director... because he's good at everything else BUT that. and the result is that, no matter how great the film looks, the wooden acting sinks it. and especially when you choose to work with kids and voice actors, who require much more direction than usual, it becomes even more important to be able to direct them properly. you can't expect jake lloyd to come up with a great performance all on his own. some actors can manage on their own, like ewan macgregor, but even a normally good actor like natalie portman obviously needed more than what lucas could offer. sorry, but if you can't coax a decent performance out of a normally good actor and your film suffers as a result, that makes you a poor director in my book, no matter how good you may be at the other stuff.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:29 pm

You sure let actors off the hook on that one. All that acting stuff is the director's job. :-P
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:09 pm

Some director's do acknowledge that they aren't too great at directing actors and cast accordingly.

Ridley Scott has often said that he tries to cast in such a way so that he knows the actors will be able to turn up on the day and give a good performance without him having to worry about it and give them much direction.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:45 pm

The problem is that Lucas doesn't seem to grasp his shortcomings. Or he's too stubborn to care. The difficulty is that he is so involved in every step of the process, from writing the story to writing the screenplay to directing to EFX supervision to editing...it can be difficult to unweave that web and make judgements on one vs. the others.

I would say that Lucas is a better Director than he is a writer. And he's a better story writer than he is a screenplay writer. As the writer of a screenplay he's pretty much a hack. I am NOT a writer, so that's just a layman's opinion.

Yes part of a director's job is to coax a strong performance from his actors. Part of an actor's job (well..actually ALL of an actor's job) is to give a strong performance. But in both cases if the writing is crap then the resulting performances are likely to be, at best, glossed over in favor of action and spectacle and overall story (as it was in ROTS), at worst it will detract greatly from the film (as it did in TPM and AotC).

The prequels' problems owe much more to Lucas as a writer than to Lucas as a director, IMO. At the end of the day, though, it's still just Lucas.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby so sorry on Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:02 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:The problem is that Lucas doesn't seem to grasp his shortcomings. Or he's too stubborn to care. The difficulty is that he is so involved in every step of the process, from writing the story to writing the screenplay to directing to EFX supervision to editing...it can be difficult to unweave that web and make judgements on one vs. the others.

I would say that Lucas is a better Director than he is a writer. And he's a better story writer than he is a screenplay writer. As the writer of a screenplay he's pretty much a hack. I am NOT a writer, so that's just a layman's opinion.

Yes part of a director's job is to coax a strong performance from his actors. Part of an actor's job (well..actually ALL of an actor's job) is to give a strong performance. But in both cases if the writing is crap then the resulting performances are likely to be, at best, glossed over in favor of action and spectacle and overall story (as it was in ROTS), at worst it will detract greatly from the film (as it did in TPM and AotC).

The prequels' problems owe much more to Lucas as a writer than to Lucas as a director, IMO. At the end of the day, though, it's still just Lucas.


Voldemoo ftw!

That about sums it all up... Locking thread.
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Re: Official George Lucas Discussion Thread (Now w/ Civility!)

Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:04 pm

I think the real problem is that there is no real problem. Lucas is doing what he enjoys, making gobs of money doing so and pleasing alot of people worldwide (based on BO gross) so unless he's gunning for an award why should he want to question everything he does incessantly?
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