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Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:27 pm
by Nachokoolaid
If you go back and look through this thread, I've been harsh on this, but I don't have one freaking clue what Tin Tin is, but after looking at some of the images, I think there is some promise here, based on the talent involved. And I think the eyes have more soul than some of you have given credit for. It's not as bad as Polar Express. I'm now approaching this with quiet, hopeful optimism.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:46 pm
by TheButcher

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:39 pm
by Nachokoolaid
My current Twitter status:

As another "performance capture" film bombs, (MARS NEEDS MOMS), anyone worried about the mega-budget TIN TIN films using the same technique?


What do you guys think?

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:27 pm
by Retardo_Montalban
techniques don't make good stories, it's how you utilize it to tell the story that makes it good. Zemeckis is balls at using mocap, but I'll see if Senor Spielbergo still has the touch. Plus, Tintin is awesome.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN sequel

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:32 pm
by TheButcher

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN sequel

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:33 pm
by TheButcher

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:20 pm
by Nice Marmot

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:08 pm
by Ribbons
Followed by international! :) (which I actually like better)

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49663

Well I know KIRK doesn't like this idea, but I'm very much looking forward to Tintin and the Legend of Whatever. Spielberg, Moffat, Snowy -- as goofy and light-hearted as the books and animated series could be, I think the movie to be a lot of fun. Plus with pop culture savants like Wright and Cornish working on the screenplay, the earnestness of the story will probably be offset by a healthy dose of tongue in cheek.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:59 am
by magicmonkey

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:27 am
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
Ya know it's a sad state of affairs in the Zone when this post has been sitting here for how long? Yet in this same amount of time all over the internet where I've been, people have been talking about this trailer non stop.

Close this place down. It's had it's day.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:33 am
by papalazeru
Don't care

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:05 am
by so sorry
papalazeru wrote:Don't care



About Kirks? Me either.


And TinTin too....

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:21 am
by Pacino86845
Yeah it looks like ass, but Kirks automatically loves it just because Spielberg is directing/producing/shitting-it-out.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:42 am
by so sorry
To expand a bit on my "don't care" comment:

I can appreciate the idea of bringing an old comics/serial to life in the digital age. Perhaps it will appeal to preteens (boys?).

But personally, nothing about this looks vaguely interesting to me. That's why I dismissed it.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:01 am
by Fried Gold
While I reckon the film will be almost certainly be brills, that trailer isn't.

Clearly it's a just a collection of stuff that's kinda finished, and doesn't really work.

EDIT: The "international" trailer is here - http://www.tintin-movie.net/ - considering it's only different by a few minor tweaks and edits, it seems better.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:03 am
by TonyWilson
I don't care enough to expand on this don't care post.

Wankballs.

Oh there we go.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:04 am
by Ribbons
Bah, you guys are all wrong!

Actually that was a pretty weak trailer, lots of grave pronouncements intercut with stock footage of nothing interesting happening. But for now I'm holding out hope that it's still all good and they're just trying to disguise the tone.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:04 pm
by Al Shut
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Ya know it's a sad state of affairs in the Zone when this post has been sitting here for how long? Yet in this same amount of time all over the internet where I've been, people have been talking about this trailer non stop.

Close this place down. It's had it's day.



For the love of god, I'm begging you, please shut the fuck up!

I've reached the point where reading another of your annoying complaining superfluous posts actually killed all the excitement I had for the trailer and my enthusiasm to talk about it.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:12 pm
by Bloo
Ok, I know NOTHING about TinTin, but color me interested in this

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:21 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
Al Shut wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Ya know it's a sad state of affairs in the Zone when this post has been sitting here for how long? Yet in this same amount of time all over the internet where I've been, people have been talking about this trailer non stop.

Close this place down. It's had it's day.



For the love of god, I'm begging you, please shut the fuck up!

I've reached the point where reading another of your annoying complaining superfluous posts actually killed all the excitement I had for the trailer and my enthusiasm to talk about it.


If it weren't for me posting, nobody else would be. You just do it all to hate me.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:52 pm
by Nice Marmot
Bloo wrote:Ok, I know NOTHING about TinTin, but color me interested in this


Ditto.

I can only guess everyone's so negative because they think it's a colossal waste of Speilberg & Del Toro's time and only delaying future projects from them.

Hey, now that I put it that way . . . :wink:

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:20 pm
by Bloo
Nice Marmot wrote:
Bloo wrote:Ok, I know NOTHING about TinTin, but color me interested in this


Ditto.

I can only guess everyone's so negative because they think it's a colossal waste of Speilberg & Del Toro's time and only delaying future projects from them.

Hey, now that I put it that way . . . :wink:


you mean Jackson

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:24 pm
by Peven
I really liked what I saw and it raised my expectations for the movie. just look at the eyes at the end, it really looks like they have achieved a level of quality with the motion capture animation as yet unseen

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:10 pm
by Nice Marmot
Bloo wrote:
Nice Marmot wrote:
Bloo wrote:Ok, I know NOTHING about TinTin, but color me interested in this


Ditto.

I can only guess everyone's so negative because they think it's a colossal waste of Speilberg & Del Toro's time and only delaying future projects from them.

Hey, now that I put it that way . . . :wink:


you mean Jackson


Oops.

If this were yet another project on Del Toro's plate, then I'd be disgruntled.

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:45 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
Al Shut wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Ya know it's a sad state of affairs in the Zone when this post has been sitting here for how long? Yet in this same amount of time all over the internet where I've been, people have been talking about this trailer non stop.

Close this place down. It's had it's day.



For the love of god, I'm begging you, please shut the fuck up!

I've reached the point where reading another of your annoying complaining superfluous posts actually killed all the excitement I had for the trailer and my enthusiasm to talk about it.


YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT!! I WAS MO-CAPPED IN ATTACK OF THE CLONES!!! I KNOW AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY MORE ABOUT MOVIES, THAN ANYBODY HERE!!!

Re: Spielberg & Jackson's shittily unoriginal TINTIN movie i

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:54 pm
by King Of Nowhere
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Al Shut wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Ya know it's a sad state of affairs in the Zone when this post has been sitting here for how long? Yet in this same amount of time all over the internet where I've been, people have been talking about this trailer non stop.

Close this place down. It's had it's day.



For the love of god, I'm begging you, please shut the fuck up!

I've reached the point where reading another of your annoying complaining superfluous posts actually killed all the excitement I had for the trailer and my enthusiasm to talk about it.


YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT!! I WAS MO-CAPPED IN ATTACK OF THE CLONES!!! I KNOW AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY MORE ABOUT MOVIES, THAN ANYBODY HERE!!!


I think you'll find the following renders your rights null & void...
Image

NOW GO MAKE SHARK HARD!

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:54 pm
by Ribbons
:shock: What IS that? :shock:

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:17 am
by Spandau Belly
This trailer doesn't really pop in any big way for me. It looks like they got the tone and the look right.

I think people who grew up reading the comics would probably want more pandering in the trailer. Ya know, one that focuses on the iconicness of the characters? It seems like the trailer is cut for Americans who have never heard of Tintin.

Like, I kinda can't believe they don't have Captain Haddock shouting "Mille sabbords!" in there. You dont' even see Dupont and Dupond's faces. The character you see the most in the trailer is Milou, and he's a bloody dog who doesn't talk.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:33 pm
by SilentScream
Ribbons wrote::shock: What IS that? :shock:


You ought to see the g@y storylines.............though Deirdre is VERY sympathetic.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:46 pm
by Nachokoolaid
Peven wrote:I really liked what I saw and it raised my expectations for the movie. just look at the eyes at the end, it really looks like they have achieved a level of quality with the motion capture animation as yet unseen


Agreed. That looked great. If you look back in this thread, you'll see that I was one of the biggest doubters, but this looks pretty special.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:08 am
by Fried Gold
Spandau Belly wrote:This trailer doesn't really pop in any big way for me. It looks like they got the tone and the look right.

I think people who grew up reading the comics would probably want more pandering in the trailer. Ya know, one that focuses on the iconicness of the characters? It seems like the trailer is cut for Americans who have never heard of Tintin.

I think, rather stranglely, the "international trailer" does a better job at introducing Tintin to a newb (even though, it seems, non-US audiences are already far more aware).

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:54 pm
by Ribbons

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:09 am
by BuckyO'harre

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:26 pm
by Al Shut
Hell yes, I'm sold on this one.

Seems to have a lot of stuff I don't remember from the original stories but who cares, it looks like a ton of fun.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:46 pm
by Peven
BuckyO'harre wrote:


excellent

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:13 pm
by judderman
Word on the main talkbacks seems somewhat meh. This doesn't seem to be reaching the post-Tintin generation (it saddens me to think there is such a thing...)

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:02 am
by Tyrone_Shoelaces
Suddenly I'm interested.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:33 pm
by Spandau Belly
So they're going to open this movie a few days earlier than planned here in North America. TINTIN's released date got bumped up to the 21st of December. I'm usually off from work a lot for the weeks around Christmas, so I'll go catch a day show of this.

And yes, I'll go see it in a cinema that shows it French because apparently they change most of the characters' names in English and that would just mess me up.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:28 pm
by Hermanator X
First Review

I only scanned it, as I want to go into this fairly fresh.
But the summing up verdict makes me happy:

Action-packed, gorgeous, and faithfully whimsical: Hergé thought Spielberg the only director capable of filming Tintin. He was onto something.

Re: TINTIN 2: Prisoners Of The Sun

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:09 pm
by TheButcher
Peter Jackson Says He’ll Direct The Sequel To ‘The Adventures Of Tintin’ Right After ‘The Hobbit’ - Steven Spielberg Reveals Script For ‘Prisoners Of The Sun’ Is Already Finished
Kevin Jagernauth wrote:Riding on a big wave of positive reviews, the Steven Spielberg-directed, Peter Jackson-produced “The Adventures Of Tintin” begins opening internationally tomorrow and Sony and Paramount will be watching the ticket sales closely. The motion-capture-fueled project was always planned as a trilogy, with plan being that Spielberg would direct the first film, Jackson the second film with the duties on the final installment still not quite mapped out. However, while audiences overseas are familiar with Hergé‘s animated hero, he’s less well known stateside and it will take a strong showing at the box-office to get the followup moving. However, if the early word is any indication, whether you grew up following Tintin in the comics or are brand new to the cowlick haired adventurer, Spielberg and Jackson’s film is a pure delight and we called it “one of the best times at the movies we’ve had in a long while.” So undoubtedly, the filmmakers are confident that “The Adventures Of Tintin” will connect with audiences as the sequel is already on the horizon.

In the latest print edition of The Hollywood Reporter, the trade caught up with the directors to talk about the film, the asked Jackson directly if he’ll helm the sequel once he’s done with “The Hobbit” to which he simply replied, “Yes.”

Spielberg elaborated that while they don’t have the greenlight yet for a followup, the studios have allowed them to develop it to the point where it’s good to go. “[Sony and Paramount] were willing to do one movie with us and then give us the financial werewithal to develop a script, do all the visual storyboards and get it really in launch position. So we can launch pretty quickly on a second movie. The script is already written,” explained Spielberg.

And indeed, last fall author Anthony Horowitz—best known as the creator of the Alex Rider series of young-adult spy novels, as well as being a veteran of U.K. TV work like “Foyle’s War”— was hired on to write the sequel, tentatively titled “The Adventures Of Tintin: Prisoners of the Sun.” Like the forthcoming film, which incorporates two Tintin adventures—“The Secret of the Unicorn” and “Red Rackham’s Treasure”—Horowitz worked off both “Prisoners of the Sun” and its predecessor “The Seven Crystal Balls,” which begins the story. The plot involves Tintin and his BFF Captain Haddock investigating a strange illness that has befallen seven explorers who have discovered an Incan tomb, before traveling to Peru to get to the bottom of the mystery. Once again, a story ripe for Spielberg and Jackson to have some pure fun up on the big screen.

But looking beyond that, Spielberg remains coy about coming on board again for the third and presumably final chapter. “We haven’t talked about that,” he said. “But I had such a wonderful time working on this; it liberated me as a director because I was able to run around by myself. It was a big collaboration, but at the same time it was one of the most personal experiences I’ve had. When you can actually hold the camera and create your shots, you don’t have a lighting team, a key grip electricians…”

“It’s like the old days with Super-8,” Jackson said, finishing the thought.

Either way, a follow-up to “The Adventures Of Tintin” would be a few years off as the two “The Hobbit” films are likely to keep Jackson busy for a while yet. And as for Spielberg, he’s already got “Lincoln” and “Robopocalypse” set for his next two efforts, along with countless other scripts and projects jockeying for his attention, so another ‘Tintin’ is likely a distant thought at the moment. But if the first entry is the big hit it should be, you’ll likely be seeing more of Tintin, Snowy, Captain Haddock and everyone else on the big screen in the years to come.

From THR:
In an exclusive interview in Paris, Steven Spielberg and Peter Jackson reveal the secrets behind their first-time working relationship and the ambitious $140 million project that brings a beloved comics character to the big screen.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:14 pm
by papalazeru
Just got back from a UK Zoner meetup and I have to say, the film is stunning.

This really is what Indy IV should have been. The acting, the stunts, the CGI - all seemlessly blended into one of the best action packed movies of this year.

Sod Transformers, and fuck any other action movie this year; Tintin beats them all hands down.

It's really showcasing some of the best of Spielberg, there's quite a few nice touches which only he could do with such flair. The chase sequences for example, are some of the best put down on film in a loooong time, one scene in particular which involves Tintin and Captain Haddock driving away from an Arabian palace along a Dam and through the local town really felt like it was a scene from Indy 1 or 3 (The best ones) that they never had the money to shoot. As they career through the town persuing and being persued, you could quite easily eat 3 giant bags of popcorn from start to finish of the scene. There's another action scene involving cranes which really keeps you on the edge of your seat but I'm not going to ruin it for you - it's what the last transformers films should have been like.

I'm desperately trying to avoid ruining the story for those who haven't been near the movie yet but rest assured, I used to read Tintin as a child - not that I would call myself a fan - and this is about as close to Tintin as I envisioned it.

Now, the animation. There has been NO BETTER animation on film than this movie. You can forget about Final Fantasy, THIS is the movie for animation. I've never seen animation with such depth, the rotoscoping is a resounding success, so much so that you can almost forget that it's animation. I did say almost - the dead eyes are gone but the moving flesh still just isn't there as lifelike but that landscape shots could be taken from any helicopter cam. They are that good!

Another worthy mention are the transitions between scenes.

There are a couple which I find very entertaining but two which come to mind are haddocks flashback in the desert, where you see a boat appear behind the sand dunes and as it comes forward, the sand crashes into waves upon the sea. It makes you smile. Another incredible transition, one which made me laugh because it was so well thought out, was also in the desert, when Haddock lays the bottle of whiskey down. You see his hand with the bottle lay down, then it becomes a silhouette, which then brightens up into snad dunes in the desert. FANTASTIC STUFF.

It's difficult to explain but when you see them, it'll bring a smile to your face.

My one gripe is still the 3D. During fast motion scenes it does become difficult to see anything and sometimes you cannot focus on anything. Those times are few and far between but it does upset me. Also, the narrow depth on field on some of the shots means that I couldn't focus on other parts of the mis en scene which I wanted to take in. That said, when the film wanted you to take in landscapes and scenes, it left you breathless.

As I said when coming out of the cinema, THIS IS WHAT INDY 4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

9/10

The film is just awesome, and I mean that in that I'm n awe of the movie.

Watch Tintin and enjoy some free awe which comes with every viewing.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:08 pm
by John-Locke
Seconded, I LOVED it.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:37 pm
by papalazeru
John-Locke wrote:Seconded, I LOVED it.


I thought you would have talked about your favourite transition there JL.

Succinct, but there you go, you can't argue that this film is a classic.

I'll be showing this to my nephew one day, and his kids etc...It's a damned good childrens adventure for the child in everyone.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:55 pm
by John-Locke
My favourite transition was the one with the row boat into the puddle but there so were many great ones, especially in Haddocks retelling of his ancestors story.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:49 am
by Ribbons
So it wasn't "shittily unoriginal" as Kirks declared it? (winky smiley face winky)

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:17 pm
by papalazeru
Ribbons wrote:So it wasn't "shittily unoriginal" as Kirks declared it? (winky smiley face winky)


Kirks really enjoyed the movie - I think we were all stunned at how good it was.

Kirks also said that Indy 3 was better than Indy 2 and admitted his transgender tendencies to us as well. I think the film brought out his honesty.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:04 pm
by SilentScream
I cannot share the love. At all.

Infact, I found it quite the most disappointing flick since the equally overhyped Avatar.

Yes, technically it WAS impressive; it looked good, had good action sequences and the whole damn thing hit you over the head like a bleedin' sledgehammer. BANG! Action sequence. BANG! Action sequence. BANG! BANG!! BANG!!! More Action sequences, then more, then more still....till in the end a sense of repetitive tiredness (and slight boredom) overcame my dulling senses. The movie just kept trying to top every previous sequence. It was like the animators were in competition with themselves to see how far they could go in the CGI stakes.

Big mistake.

The flick lost it's heart, lost it's storytelling mojo to the CGI monster that ate it up and spat it out.

Sure, I applaud the technical work that went into it. Three cheers and all that crap....BUT....it all felt as empty as the horrible lifeless eyes and marionette movements of the CGI puppets which inhabited the whole bloody thing; formless and bloodless, just like those in Polar Express, which predates this by numerous years. Infact, this flick, like Polar Express, exemplifies for me the appalling consequences of how CGI can be manipulated till it becomes a wholly false, synthetic and heartless art form.

In all truth, I came out of this thinking; yes, this flick is telling me I should've enjoyed this rip-roaring adventure but in reality all I'm really feeling is a sense of slight bemusement and tiredness at the bag of technical tricks that's been thrust and thrown in my face for the past 1hr and 45mins or so.

A let down.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 pm
by Ribbons
:shock:

So... thumbs down?

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:31 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
I still would have preferred Spielberg to lend his hand to something more original and wasn't partially 'hand delivered' or 'delivered on a plate' by being a tried and tested and successful entertainment source already.

It is good though for what it is. What I was most impressed with actually was how the film lent it's weight into the character of Haddock. The movie comes a live a lot more when he's introduced onscreen and is much more fun onwards.

The telling of his ancestor's past and how Haddock has to sober and man up to deal with his own challenges is the best element of the film, and does save it from being just a wizz bang action extravaganza as it becomes a more personal film than I had expected, and a damn lot funnier too. Of course it utilizes TinTin more when he has to kick Haddock up the arse and later on, vice versa, making TinTin's role in this more internal and not just a guy who runs, punches and jumps just to push the action.

But it is good. I see why Spielberg decided to film this as animation rather than live action as he does go crazy with his ideas and is having so much fun with his action scenes that just feels more OTT than other animated stuff, and also with his camera flying in and out of all the 3D wildness, it's as if he is saying THIS is how you make a film in these genres.

However I do think that the concentration of Haddock's alcoholism and humourous treatment of it (bullet time shots of Haddock AND Snowy drinking floating alcohol bubbles etc.) is a bad thing and encourages underage kids to drink and have underage sex and kill animals and this is why this movie should be at least censored in part or at most, banned.

Re: TINTIN movie (Now w/ Trailer)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:35 pm
by Bloo
what's wrong with drinking, underage sex, and killing animals?