BEOWULF

Anime, cartoons and 3D. Animated shorts and features. And don't forget the animation genius in Bulgaria.

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate Beowulf?

10
2
6%
9
5
16%
8
7
23%
7
4
13%
6
1
3%
5
1
3%
4
2
6%
3
1
3%
2
1
3%
1
0
No votes
I'm waiting for TV/DVD
1
3%
I'M! NOT! INTERESTED!
6
19%
 
Total votes : 31

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:34 am

I saw it in 3D and have to say that if you're going to see it, see it in 3D.
Image
User avatar
Tyrone_Shoelaces
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 3946
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:33 am
Location: Northern Frontier

Postby Ribbons on Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:19 am

While clicking around online for reviews I found this one, which I thought was pretty interesting. Ultimately negative and a little skeptical about the trend of 3D filmmaking in general (which is probably why I cottoned to it), but still somewhat complimentary of the film's successes.

The Old English epic gets what feels like its twentieth adaptation in the last couple of years alone with Robert Zemeckis' Polar Express-ized -- which is to say, digitally rotoscoped to distraction and peopled with pixel phantoms that look like dead-eyed Toussaud versions of the actors voicing them -- Beowulf. Not that there aren't a few pretty cool moments (especially in IMAX 3D, the six-story screen doing wonders for the masturbatory shazam! interludes), but the whole thing is decidedly unthrilling and so technologically interesting that it overwhelms any connection we might otherwise have with the story. I spent a lot of energy admiring the whiz-bang and almost none giving much of a shit about anything else. What won me over at the end is that it's completely ballsy in its anti-Christian tactic, suggesting only a few weeks before The Golden Compass debuts that the general sea change against the evangelicals, if not predicted by the cinema, is at least reflected by it. A scene where a bishop played by John Malkovich is carried on a cross from his dragon-leveled church, hissing about "sins of the fathers," is almost as tricky as another where good king Beowulf (Ray Winstone) announces that the "Christ God" has done away with all heroes, replacing them with "fear and shame." I prefer my heresy in the subtler vintage minted by stuff like Matthew Robbins' Dragonslayer, but what the hell: if Hollywood's going to fire a shot across the Conservative bow, I'd rather they do it this way than with something like Lions for Lambs. Also cool is the casting of Crispin Glover as evil troll Grendel.

Brave Great Beowulf travels to Danish king Hrothgar's (Anthony Hopkins) side, the better to slay the monster Grendel, then its mother (Angelina Jolie), then Beowulf's own monstrous son calved by Grendel's mother. Lots of interesting stuff in there about ill-gotten progeny, a barren marriage bed, the return of the prodigal, the uneasiness of the head that wears the crown, and so on, but it's mostly just pretext to stick spears at the audience, throw coins at them, toss limbs, and threaten for long stretches to thrust a penis, IMAX 3D-style, at an audience made justifiably nervous about just such a thing (to have another extended, pointed game of "hide the salami" in another animated film this year after The Simpsons Movie is one of the more perverse, inexplicable bits of cultural synchronicity). It's an instant camp artifact; if Ralph Bakshi had a zillion dollars to spend, he'd be spending it doing stuff like this: all sexualized and high-conceptualized into nonsense. The moment that Jolie's siren emerges naked from a cave pool, her feet shaped like a pair of hooker stilettos, is the same moment that Beowulf immortalizes into a bawdy sing-along. Either you know the words and like the melody or you don't; there's no defending the piece as high art, though there's something to be said for wanting -- and managing -- to make a 3D fantasy movie with naked wenches, drunken kings, homoeroticism, and monsters in this age. And there's a laudable trend in Zemeckis' two animated pictures, what with this film's hostility towards the Church and The Polar Express' transformation of the Christians' most revered pagan holiday into a freakish, fascistic, paranoid vision of the Third Reich.

A final battle between Beowulf and his boy, ending with a bloody self-mutilation and a poignant reach for a beating, exposed, man-sized heart, gives the picture a healthy dose of soul when its twin marital dramas fail to ignite -- underscoring at the same time the film's tendency to deliver in spades only to go down in flames. Give Beowulf credit, at least, for staking for itself the lofty goal of delivering an epic poem on an epic scale, armed with the strengths, and weaknesses, of its two screenwriters, Neil Gaiman and Roger Avary -- the one so steeped in his own mythology that he doesn't seem to care whether his dialogue works better in panels than in mouths, the other so incapable of seriousness that the film seems like more of an auto-critique than I suspect Gaiman would have preferred. As it lays, it's a hoot, a testosterone-heavy action flick that plays like a tricked-out and loads-more-numbing The 13th Warrior. The most disturbing thing about it is the doors that this technology would appear to open to bastardizing any number of canonized works (Paradise Lost, start your trembling); and it comes with the obvious caveat that if you're going to see it at all, find an IMAX venue in which to see it. It's cinema as a pointless, deafening, eye-gouging spectacle (the biggest joke is that it chooses Beowulf as its template) -- a glorious vomitorium of impossible digital derring-do that pounds its chest, makes points that no one's arguing, and then goes away without much of a ripple. So it's cool. So what?

** 1/2
User avatar
Ribbons
SQUARE PEG
 
Posts: 13779
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 am

Postby bamf on Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

I was actually pleased with the eye work in this one. I think what it lacked was the subtle expressions of the face. The nuance of a wrinkle, or a tweak of the lid. The faces are so plastic they convey nothing more then visages. I also found the characters jumping between ultra real in moments, and then moments later vacant shells. Its like different firms handled wide shots, and close ups with no standard. But watching the credits, one thing that stands out is that this was a wholly American made film, for better or worse.
User avatar
bamf
SUSAN CAGLE
 
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:59 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Peven on Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:07 pm

saw this today on I-Max 3-D and loved it. i am someone who had the story read to me in my earliest memories, very fond memories, by my father so i am not only aware of the story but have a real attachment to it as well. they did change the story somewhat but i thought they did a fine job in keeping the spirit and heart of the original story intact. honestly, to compare two legendary/historical/epic using computer generated means heavily to tell their story this year, as much i enjoyed "300", i enjoyed "Beowulf" more, and the it boils down to heart. "300" was stylish and easy on the eye and had cool action but in the end it really wasn't all that affecting, at least for me. "Beowulf" had me choked up a little at one point, and had me wanting to get out of my seat to cheer in others. on the surface it is a beautiful movie to look at and it tells a great story of a hero who is also a man. there is some subtext that is certainly a new addition, but that i think only adds to the depth of the tale, like a greek tragedy. in the end i think it did a fantastic job of telling the story of the original Superman.

7.5/10
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Postby tapehead on Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:17 pm

What, he's from another planet in this version? He's got some secret vulnerability to a rare mineral? he pretends to be someone else to keep his heroic deeds? Is there any real resemblance to said comic-book super hero?
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Postby Jahbulon on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:04 pm

tapehead wrote:What, he's from another planet in this version? He's got some secret vulnerability to a rare mineral? he pretends to be someone else to keep his heroic deeds? Is there any real resemblance to said comic-book super hero?


They've both been referred to as Jesus allegories at various points.
Jahbulon
PRIMITIVE SCREWHEAD
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:25 am

Postby bamf on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:05 pm

Beowulf is tearing the zone apart.
User avatar
bamf
SUSAN CAGLE
 
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:59 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Postby RogueScribner on Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:54 pm

I caught Beowulf in IMAX Digital 3D today. Mori's review was the strongest influence in viewing it in that format, and other reviews I've read whetted my appetite for this movie which, previously, I had no real interest in before.

I really enjoyed the IMAX Digital 3D experience, and I think it added a lot to the film. I'm not sure that the level of entertainment reached in this format would have been matched in 2D. That being said, I liked, but didn't love the movie.

As sad as it may be, I have to admit to knowing jack shit about Beowulf going in. Not just the movie, but the story it is based upon as well. I never read it in high school and it was just one of things I never got around to (though I'm a little curious now). So I pretty much watched this movie with a clean slate, no preconceived notions of what it was going to be.

I was a bit startled at the level of violence in the opening act and am really shocked that this movie got a PG-13. This movie is more hardcore than some R movies I've seen. I feel for any unsuspecting parents taking their children to this. Spider-man it ain't. That being said, I didn't think the violence was gratuitous in the context of the story, just not rated properly by the MPAA.

The animation varied. During some scenes I'd totally forget I wasn't watching live action and during others I'd keep having Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within and Shrek flashbacks. Overall I'd say it was pretty good, but not perfectly consistent. I will say that after viewing this movie the possibility of replacing live actors in movies seems very real. In another 15 - 20 years most movies may be made similarly.

The voice acting was good, but I wasn't really impressed by anyone. Ray Winstone, Brendan Gleeson, and Anthony Hopkins were serviceable, I thought Robin Wright Penn and John Malkovich were a little bland (but maybe it was just their faces), and I didn't know what the hell Crispin Glover (as Grendel) was talking about. I was too busy staring at Angelina Jolie's gold boobs to notice her performance, but she did look pretty plastic in some scenes.

All the action was exciting, especially the dragon chase. I wouldn't say it's the best dragon I've seen, but the action surrounding it was pretty cool.

The story itself was interesting, but there were some lulls here and there and outside of Beowulf I didn't really feel a connection to anyone. I think 300 ended up being a more visceral experience, even if the movie was all surface splendor, but Beowulf did seem to be about something.

All in all, I wasn't bored, parts were very exciting and/or visually immersive, but I'm not sure how it'll hold up in 2D. I think once you take away the wow factor of 3D (especially in IMAX), I'll find the movie isn't as awesome as I remembered. 'Til then, I'll give this movie a B-, or a 7/10.


It being IMAX, the only trailer I saw was for the Spiderwick Chronicles and I think I'll pass on that.
My eye isn't lazy; it's ambidextrous!
User avatar
RogueScribner
The Dork Avenger
 
Posts: 9609
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, FL

Postby tapehead on Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:01 pm

Jahbulon wrote:
tapehead wrote:What, he's from another planet in this version? He's got some secret vulnerability to a rare mineral? he pretends to be someone else to keep his heroic deeds? Is there any real resemblance to said comic-book super hero?


They've both been referred to as Jesus allegories at various points.


Yeah, but I'm hoping we've gotten past that.
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:43 am

10/10

Fucking amazing. I absolutely loved this damn movie. Must be seen on IMAX. I can't remember seeing a more lovely film in a while. There are quite a few times that it looks absolutely photo-real.

I hope this opened the door for more adult animated films and more films using this method. I was a little unsure of this, but it went FAR FAR beyond my expectations. One nitpick was that Glover's Grendel was hard to understand at times. But there was action, sex, good dialogue (Gaiman even found a way to throw in about 2 minutes straight of the Original Old English, NICE).

I don't understand how people that like either fantasy or historical epic aren't eating this up. I really enjoyed 300, but Beowulf wipes its ass with that movie.

Oh, and that was fucking Smaug from The Hobbit (i.e., the best damn dragon ever captured on film, and everthing I was hoping for in Smaug). WETA's got their work cut out for them now.

Highly recommended.
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby bamf on Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:57 am

Well we agree at least on this much...

Nachokoolaid wrote:
I really enjoyed 300,



Oh and yeah, the dragon did kick ass.
User avatar
bamf
SUSAN CAGLE
 
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:59 pm
Location: Los Angeles

BEOWULF

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:47 am

My review.

I have seen Beowulf twice now. First time was opening night in a normal theater non 3d, and then tonight in REAL D.

I will state that I have read the poem many of times and Love it a lot.

With that, here are my thoughts on the film.


In general. I enjoyed it. I liked it alot, but did not love it like I thought I was going to. Mainly for these reasons.


THE GOOD-

The Visual Style. The Motion capture has moved spades since Polar Express. %97 of the flim is fucking spectacular. There are no DOLL EYES in this film. Wigluf is the finest of the group. I now think that motion capture will be the future of filmmaking. There were so many shots that are simply not capable in live action film. Everything was fluid and there were few if any cring sceen with the animation.

The Cast- Everyone was spot on for this flick. Every member of this film delivered on their charecters. There was not a bad performace at all in this film.

The score- The score for this flick is just fucking fantastic. It accents the film so well. Much like PIRATES music helped those films, the score brought out the best in this film.

THE BAD-

My biggest complaint, which was a huge one for me, was the script.

The dialog wasnt bad, but the changes made to the story lost me on the first viewing. But thats coming from a person whos read the story so many time


SPOLIERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

















I did not like that Grendal was Herothgar's son. Nor did I not like that Grendal was more of a tormented soul than an unstoppable monster.

Beowulf being a flawed charecter detracted a bit too. In the story Beowulf was the warrior of warriors. He was perfect, unflawed, and was a great man and represented all that was good in the world. In this film, hes flawed, more boastfull than the story, and weak when it came to temptaion.

Beowulf not fighting with Grendals mother, and she being a seductful demon did not boad with me either.

Finally, the Dreagon, being Beowulf's son, also something I did not like.

The other bit that bothered me was that Grendals fight with Beowulf wasnt as EPIC as it should of been. The first half of the film should of been like the second half, when Beowulf acted more like the Beowulf of the story.


One other thing for food for thought, was that Herothgar apparently has some shitty sperm. He fucks Grendals mom and he basicly got a deformed retard with super human strenght. Beowulf fucks grendals mom and he sires a perfect gold man that becomes a fucking giant dragon.





END SPOILERS.....







As for how it should be seen. Real D or 3d is the way to go. There is just so much depth to the film, that I now see why James Cameron is championing 3D. It just adds more realism to the film,

I do recommend that you do see this film and Do see it in 3d. While its not a great film, its still something that must be seen on the big screen.
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everyone is gonna die. Come watch TV
— Rick and Morty

Image
User avatar
bastard_robo
SCANK BARON
 
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Hello Kitty Adventure Island

Postby Peven on Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:01 am

from the main page......


BEOWULF
Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.

Of all of the anticipated end-of-year offerings that have the potential to truly knock your socks off in terms of both quality and box-office receipts, few films have more question marks surrounding it then BEOWULF. Everyone I've talked to knows they should be excited about it, but the cold dead eyes that featured so prominently in director Robert Zemeckis' last film, THE POLAR EXPRESS, still bore holes into the souls of many who saw it. The idea of Zemeckis doing another total CGI film meant to look as realistic as any animated film has in history may not sit well with some. At the very least, I can promise you that the eyes in BEOWULF look pretty good. And the film as a whole isn't too shabby either.

Let me establish right now that I found this film solidly entertaining, crossing over into outright breathtaking many, many times. I was lucky enough to see BEOWULF in IMAX 3-D, and if you see it any way else, you're really missing out. But even ignoring the film's vast technological advances, screenwriters Neil Gaiman and Roger Avery have crafted a wonderful reduction of the weighty and complicated source material. The true test as to whether you'll enjoy this film or not may rest solely on your ability to watch the movie as a movie and not as a collection of motion-captured effects, photorealistic characters and some of the greatest 3-D you'll ever see. The filmmakers don't make this an easy task. There's a lot to distract you from the power of the story, so much so that you'll probably feel the need to see the film at least twice: once to gaze in wonder at the visuals and once to pay attention to the plot.

Not that the plot is that tricky to follow. King Hrothgar (voiced by Anthony Hopkins) is seeing his kingdom ravaged by a monster called Grendel (Crispin Glover in a truly terrifying vocal performance). Grendel is a half-demon/half-human creature that is one of the most hideous things I've ever seen on film. Hrothgar puts out the call to neighboring lands that he is in need of a hero to come save his lands. Along comes Beowulf (Ray Winstone after a serious digital workout) and his men (including Brendan Gleeson's Wiglaf). After falling in love with the Queen (Robin Wright Penn) and a war of words with Hrothgar's advisor, Unferth (John Malkovich), Beowulf defeats Grendel in a bizarre nude wrestling match that rivals Viggo's meat-and-potatoes knife fight in EASTERN PROMISES. Beowulf soon discovers that the kingdom's real threat is Grendel's seductive water-demon mother (Angelina Jolie), who attempts to bed our hero in the hopes of spawning another demon child. This film is only PG-13, but there is more naked ass and hardcore (albeit animated) blood and guts than I've seen in just about any movie all year outside of HOSTEL, PART 2.

The greatest thing about BEOWULF is that Zemeckis never stops attempting to dazzle and impress us. There are dragons, sea monsters, bodies being ripped limb from limb and a semi-nude Angelina Jolie. It doesn't seem right to ask for anything more. And there's a moving energy about the film that just swept me right up with it. That being said, once Grendel leaves the story, I felt the movie lost a little something. Sure, the battle between Beowulf and the dragon is remarkable, but Grendel was/is the classic misunderstood monster, who really just wants to be left alone with his adoring mommy. On a purely technical level, there was something a little off with the way the female characters looked in this film, perhaps with the exception of Jolie's character, who looks exactly like her. The other women appear too soft and perfect in the face, almost expressionless. It's a small quibble, since non-demon women don't play a huge role in this story, but it is a distraction. And John Malkovich's performance proves that, yes, even 100 percent digitally created characters can overact like a pro.

Still, the lifelike movements of the characters, the freakishly realistic facial features, the way the hair and clothing flowed, all work to make the spectacle of BEOWULF something quite special. The stronger and more substantial screenplay makes a world of difference in dealing with this technology. The emphasis here is on story, and although it's a tale as old as the ages, Gaiman and Avery breathe some spectacular life into it. Those of you reserving the right to withhold your enthusiasm for this project may now exhale.

Capone
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Postby wonkabar on Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:32 pm

I'm just gonna say this.....

the whole time I was thinking, "Man, this would look great on Lord of the Rings."

...so yeah, 3-D IMAX is a must. (If you have the means, I highly recommend it. It is so choice.)

However, anybody who says this movie stands on it's own....shit. I can only imagine the look on the person's face who's first viewing is a rental.


(Btw I think John Carter of Mars would work very well/better than Beowulf as far as mo-cap/3D is concerned....that could really be something baby)
Last edited by wonkabar on Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
wonkabar
CHIEF OF THE BEEF
 
Posts: 6220
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: The Double Douche

Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:37 pm

I'm not sure I really understand the criticism from some that the character was changed from a the perfect depiction of righteousness to a flawed hero. What's the point of watching a "perfect" hero?
Chairman Kaga
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 7660
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:49 am

Re: BEOWULF

Postby wonkabar on Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:51 pm

bastard_robo wrote:SPOLIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



















One other thing for food for thought, was that Herothgar apparently has some shitty sperm. He fucks Grendals mom and he basicly got a deformed retard with super human strenght. Beowulf fucks grendals mom and he sires a perfect gold man that becomes a fucking giant dragon.





END SPOILERS.....



I must admit, the thought crossed my mind as well.



bastard_robo wrote:As for how it should be seen. Real D or 3d is the way to go. There is just so much depth to the film, that I now see why James Cameron is championing 3D. It just adds more realism to the film,


Yeah, I'm convinced guys....I want all my blockbusters served up 3D now
Image
User avatar
wonkabar
CHIEF OF THE BEEF
 
Posts: 6220
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: The Double Douche

BEOWULF

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:18 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I'm not sure I really understand the criticism from some that the character was changed from a the perfect depiction of righteousness to a flawed hero. What's the point of watching a "perfect" hero?


Beowulf was more like Leonidas in 300, but more "mythical"

I like flawed heros, but thats the thing with every hero now.

Beowulf set the standard for how a hero should act and was depicted.

He was rightousness incarnate.

Not a man swayed byt some naked demon.
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everyone is gonna die. Come watch TV
— Rick and Morty

Image
User avatar
bastard_robo
SCANK BARON
 
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Hello Kitty Adventure Island

Re: BEOWULF

Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:27 pm

bastard_robo wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I'm not sure I really understand the criticism from some that the character was changed from a the perfect depiction of righteousness to a flawed hero. What's the point of watching a "perfect" hero?


Beowulf was more like Leonidas in 300, but more "mythical"

I like flawed heros, but thats the thing with every hero now.

Beowulf set the standard for how a hero should act and was depicted.

He was rightousness incarnate.

Not a man swayed byt some naked demon.

Fine but why would that work in a film? The character has nowhere to grow or change if he's already perfect.
Chairman Kaga
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 7660
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:49 am

Postby John-Locke on Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:32 pm

Saw it in IMAX 3D last night and it's a real experience, loved the story and execution and generally found it mightily entertaining.

9/10

It is more of a ride than a film in 3D and I'd definitely suggest you see it that way.

Can't wait to see it again.
Image
User avatar
John-Locke
BULLETPROOF TIGER
 
Posts: 12365
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:49 am
Location: Unknown

Postby junesquad on Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:28 pm

John-Locke wrote:Saw it in IMAX 3D last night and it's a real experience, loved the story and execution and generally found it mightily entertaining.

9/10

It is more of a ride than a film in 3D and I'd definitely suggest you see it that way.

Can't wait to see it again.


Thanks for the suggestion. I would like to see it that way as well.
Junesquad
junesquad
AIRWOLF
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:01 pm

Postby CeeBeeUK on Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:55 pm

John-Locke wrote:Saw it in IMAX 3D last night and it's a real experience, loved the story and execution and generally found it mightily entertaining.

9/10

It is more of a ride than a film in 3D and I'd definitely suggest you see it that way.

Can't wait to see it again.


Thanks for the recommendation, which Imax was it? BFI?
User avatar
CeeBeeUK
WAIRWOLF GAME
 
Posts: 2060
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:47 am
Location: nodnoL

Re: BEOWULF

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:01 pm

bastard_robo wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I'm not sure I really understand the criticism from some that the character was changed from a the perfect depiction of righteousness to a flawed hero. What's the point of watching a "perfect" hero?


Beowulf was more like Leonidas in 300, but more "mythical"

I like flawed heros, but thats the thing with every hero now.

Beowulf set the standard for how a hero should act and was depicted.

He was rightousness incarnate.

Not a man swayed byt some naked demon.


Maybe my translation of Beowulf is different, but I never saw Beowulf depicted as rightousness incarnate. He's always been the picture of vanity and pride. And that's his "flaw," if you want to call it that.

I liked the tempting of his character by Grendel's mother because I thought it fit his character perfectly.
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby Ribbons on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:04 pm

Well, we should get Lady Sheridan up in the hizzay, because she probably knows more about Beowulf than any of us, but when I read the poem I got the impression that we were supposed to admire how ridiculously proud he was. By contemporary standards he looks like a grandstanding douche, but back then I think it was a sign of manly fortitude.
User avatar
Ribbons
SQUARE PEG
 
Posts: 13779
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 am

Re: BEOWULF

Postby Lady Sheridan on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:10 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
bastard_robo wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I'm not sure I really understand the criticism from some that the character was changed from a the perfect depiction of righteousness to a flawed hero. What's the point of watching a "perfect" hero?


Beowulf was more like Leonidas in 300, but more "mythical"

I like flawed heros, but thats the thing with every hero now.

Beowulf set the standard for how a hero should act and was depicted.

He was rightousness incarnate.

Not a man swayed byt some naked demon.

Fine but why would that work in a film? The character has nowhere to grow or change if he's already perfect.


Beowulf is an ideal hero, but I wouldn't say it makes him uninteresting. Personally, I feel the film takes the cheap and easy route to scuffing him up.

If anything, the poem tears him down in the last half. Beowulf makes some personal choices that do come back to haunt him. Out of humility, he refuses the Geatish crown and instead acts as adviser to the boy king--which ends up getting the boy killed and Beowulf is forced to take the throne. He never marries and never fathers any children, and he allows the Geats to totally live in idle peace. His perfection and strength becomes a hindrance, because they depend entirely on him for protection.

When the dragon awakens, the other warriors are too scared to fight it and run off, the ultimate shame in the Germanic world. Beowulf knows he's the only one who can, so he takes it on, but is killed. And he dies with the bitter knowledge that the Geats are going to be enslaved by one of Beowulf's enemies, who were just waiting for him to croak. It's pretty grim. It's very much the "how did it come to this" tragedy that Tolkien ran with so well in LOTR.

Beowulf alludes to the dragon being a punishment for his sin, but he never says what it is. I see where Neil Gaiman was going with his script but I still think it's cheesy and I don't think he grasped the true tragedy of the poem the way Tolkien did.

So, while Beowulf is a perfect hero in a lot of respects, he still has an interesting character arc that could have played out nicely onscreen. I don't think adding hubris is necessarily the only way to spice up a character.
User avatar
Lady Sheridan
RED
 
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Croft Manor

Postby Peven on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:14 pm

LS, i really don't think the movie "scuffs him up" at all. he still comes out the greatest hero of all, but a mortal hero, a man. it makes his accomplishments that much more impressive. the way they depict him in battle, from the night he faces down Grendel au natural to the end showdown with the dragon, is of the ultimate warrior, the ultimate hero.
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Postby Lady Sheridan on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:19 pm

Ribbons wrote:Well, we should get Lady Sheridan up in the hizzay, because she probably knows more about Beowulf than any of us, but when I read the poem I got the impression that we were supposed to admire how ridiculously proud he was. By contemporary standards he looks like a grandstanding douche, but back then I think it was a sign of manly fortitude.


Awwwwww!! ;)

Beowulf isn't supposed to be read as a grandstanding ass. It's definitely a case of our modern culture clashing with the Anglo-Saxon. We tend to see it as shameful, oafish behavior but it's really not.

Boasting was an art in the Anglo-Saxon world. You were supposed to do it. As you said, it was considered manly fortitude. That's how you introduced yourself, it's how others introduced you. Humility would have just been laughed off. It's the same mentality that led them to put all their finest treasure on before a battle. It was a taunt to the other side, a "come and get it" because if they kill you, they strip your body.

BUT, the key is that you couldn't just talk shit. Before a battle, you and your retainers sat over your beer (beer was sacred, mead was for swilling) and you got drunk. As you drank, you bragged about what you were going to do on the field tomorrow. And you better make damn sure you actually follow through with it, or die trying, because if you come back without accomplishing any of it, you were shamed forever.

So Beowulf is, in the Anglo-Saxon world, just saying it like it is. He's not really intending to brag. His introduction in Hrothgar's hall is actually a specific social custom--Unferth seems like an ass too, but he's really an agent of the king. The king needs one of his men to stand up and call the Geat out, to see if Beowulf really is who he claims to be. It isn't Beowulf who struts on the scene bragging about the swimming contest--it's him saying "Well, actually, Unferth--it happened this way, if you must know. Get it right."

Even so, Beowulf has to prove himself. Words are all well and good, but when he accepts the mead cup and swears to kill Grendel...well, he HAS to follow through. It's less of a boast and more of a sacred oath.
User avatar
Lady Sheridan
RED
 
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Croft Manor

BEOWULF

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:59 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
Ribbons wrote:Well, we should get Lady Sheridan up in the hizzay, because she probably knows more about Beowulf than any of us, but when I read the poem I got the impression that we were supposed to admire how ridiculously proud he was. By contemporary standards he looks like a grandstanding douche, but back then I think it was a sign of manly fortitude.


Awwwwww!! ;)

Beowulf isn't supposed to be read as a grandstanding ass. It's definitely a case of our modern culture clashing with the Anglo-Saxon. We tend to see it as shameful, oafish behavior but it's really not.

Boasting was an art in the Anglo-Saxon world. You were supposed to do it. As you said, it was considered manly fortitude. That's how you introduced yourself, it's how others introduced you. Humility would have just been laughed off. It's the same mentality that led them to put all their finest treasure on before a battle. It was a taunt to the other side, a "come and get it" because if they kill you, they strip your body.

BUT, the key is that you couldn't just talk shit. Before a battle, you and your retainers sat over your beer (beer was sacred, mead was for swilling) and you got drunk. As you drank, you bragged about what you were going to do on the field tomorrow. And you better make damn sure you actually follow through with it, or die trying, because if you come back without accomplishing any of it, you were shamed forever.

So Beowulf is, in the Anglo-Saxon world, just saying it like it is. He's not really intending to brag. His introduction in Hrothgar's hall is actually a specific social custom--Unferth seems like an ass too, but he's really an agent of the king. The king needs one of his men to stand up and call the Geat out, to see if Beowulf really is who he claims to be. It isn't Beowulf who struts on the scene bragging about the swimming contest--it's him saying "Well, actually, Unferth--it happened this way, if you must know. Get it right."

Even so, Beowulf has to prove himself. Words are all well and good, but when he accepts the mead cup and swears to kill Grendel...well, he HAS to follow through. It's less of a boast and more of a sacred oath.


LS nailed it on the head. The charecter changes were what annoyed me the most, and ultimatly kept me from loving it.

It is still the best BEOWULF adaptation out there, but its still flawed.
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everyone is gonna die. Come watch TV
— Rick and Morty

Image
User avatar
bastard_robo
SCANK BARON
 
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Hello Kitty Adventure Island

Postby buster00 on Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:09 am

Well, I've never read Beowulf, but I thought this movie kicked ass.

8/10. Might've rated it higher if I could've seen it in 3D.
User avatar
buster00
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 6401
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:12 pm

Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:05 am

@ bamf...excellent review.

@ ribbons...Chaw is quickly becoming my fave on-line film scribe. The One Swayze Summer section at Film Freak Central delights me to no end.
Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.
User avatar
Keepcoolbutcare
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 9407
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:14 am
Location: Blacktionville

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:27 pm

Saw it today in Real-D (note to UKers - certain Cineworld cinemas are showing it in 3D nationwide)

I'm still undecided about whether it was any good or not. On one side - the technical acheivement, the voice-acting and certain scenes were fantastic and often wonderful. On the other side - it came across a bit muddled & inconsistent and certain points just didn't keep my interest.

Overall.....it didn't really seem to know what side of the Danelaw it was on.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13928
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Postby Gheorghe Zamfir on Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:24 pm

Very meh for me. Saw it in Real-D (wish our IMAX had a 3-D projector though) but really wasn't bowled over by anything, I think the most impressive 3D stuff came in the Coraline trailer preceding the movie.

As for Beowulf, the visuals went from off putting animation awkwardness to oh, that's neat. But nothing really ever engaged or excited me, though I think that's a critique of the film, not of the technology. I was impressed by the technical skill of the dragon fight, but not so much thrilled with it, and I doubt had it been more photo-real my feelings would be different. I won't spend much time discussing the plot or characters, but neither grabbed me, Beowulf was a blast, but everything else about the film that wasn't Grendel or Dragon related was a bit of a yawn. I'll be curious to see how this film's fans feel about it rewatching it on boring ole DVD.
Gheorghe Zamfir
REAL DRAGON
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:09 pm

Postby Jahbulon on Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:42 pm

Good film, I suppose. It works much better if you go with John-Locke's "imagine it's a theme park ride" advice. What was even better, however, was seeing everyone get up at the end of the film donning the black-rimmed 3D glasses we were given and getting the fucking eerie impression that I just stepped into a movie called Being Joe 90.
Jahbulon
PRIMITIVE SCREWHEAD
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:25 am

Postby Ribbons on Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:07 am

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:@ ribbons...Chaw is quickly becoming my fave on-line film scribe. The One Swayze Summer section at Film Freak Central delights me to no end.


Yeah, Chaw is teh man, I love the way he writes and just what he writes in general. I only usually skim the website, but I'll have to check out that One Swayze Summer thing.
User avatar
Ribbons
SQUARE PEG
 
Posts: 13779
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 am

Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:22 am

Chairman Kaga
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 7660
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:49 am

Postby Peven on Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:02 am

yes, even in the 21st century some humans still feel threatened by new technology...... :roll:
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:33 pm

Who's threatened?
Chairman Kaga
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 7660
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:49 am

Postby LaDracul on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:25 pm

The movie was good, and here's some of what I thought about it-
*I felt pretty bad for the Queen in it. Though on the way home, I listened to this song and it must be what she was feeling-
Kelly Clarkson-Behind These Hazel Eyes

*I think Grendel looked like a giant Gollum with leprosy.

*I thought the music sounded very much like "Van Helsing"...and it turns out it was another one of Alan Silvestri's scores.

*Julene Renee from "Roundhouse" was in it!!! (Hell, I wish THAT would be on DVD as well.)

*This is probably one of John Malkovich's recent roles where he DOESN'T look like a corpse.

And even though this is a movie with Gabriella Pescucci's costuming, I don't think I'd want to make either of the Queen or Ursula's gowns. Not really interested.
Image
User avatar
LaDracul
AIRWOLF
 
Posts: 2525
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:37 pm
Location: Gothamized Chicago

Postby Seppuku on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:33 pm

LaDracul wrote:The movie was good, and here's some of what I thought about it-
*I felt pretty bad for the Queen in it.


I felt pretty bad for her too. It must be a total drag having to go through life looking so cross-eyed.
User avatar
Seppuku
SWINGING PLASTIC LION
 
Posts: 7872
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 am
Location: Limeyland

Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:42 pm

The eye work on most of the "extras" was pretty bad. In many scenes, John Malkovich's character appeared as if he was actually blind, i.e. "Hollywood" blind where the character just stares blankly ahead, not focusing on anything in particular.
User avatar
Cha-Ka Khan
UNGRATEFUL BASTARD
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:55 am

Postby Maui on Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:13 pm

I just saw Beowulf. I truly loved it. I only wish I had read the Seamus Heaney's translation before seeing the movie - however, that may or may not have been a good thing.

The cast of animated characters all did incredible jobs: Hopkins, Wright Penn, Winstone, Malkovich, etc.

The wintery scenes, the sea monster/ocean battle, the fiery dragon fight at the end - stunning/breathtaking and incredibly unnerving to watch.

The monster Grendl was extremely scary, grotesque and needy.

Angelina Jolie - looked stunning, however I think they gave her more curves.

I'd recommend this. Definitely pick it up on DVD when it's released.
User avatar
Maui
WoWie
 
Posts: 7601
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 10:19 pm

Postby tapehead on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:52 pm

Saw it last night in 3D IMAX (unfortunately with the older style, polarising glasses that notably lack peripheral vision and suffer from occasional, slight ghosting), it's purpose built for this format - I might eventually watch it in 2D, but I expect the translation will make it feel like watching an extended, very well-rendered video game cut scene.
The Benefits of this format are exploited well by Beowulf - the 3D is vivid and overwhelming tactile - watching more films produced this way I think I would start trying to discuss them in more phenomenological terms. The feeling of this 3D is that you have some sensation of what the forms and object in front of you would feel like - there is some sense of their texture, their mass and their weight. When you behold human characters then, the experience is at times sensuous or exhilarating (Jolie's virtual, glittering naked form), or vile and really disgusting (Grendel raking his fingers across his own skull into his scaly, pus riddled flesh).

The script to me seems an attempt to play old culture to the multiplex crowd - so it's populist, easily comprehensible and definitely trying to hit a few too many targets, at the cost of the story. It's not quite an adult movie, however much it wants to be, and scenes where we are 'artfully' deprived of beholding Beowulf in all his manliness tend to seem a little silly.
I loved it, but more as a showcase of the format than a telling of the tale.
Last edited by tapehead on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Postby Nachokoolaid on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:34 am

You can't blame Grendel, can you? I mean, how many of us haven't raked our fingers across some scaly pussy?

:-P
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby tapehead on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:38 am

I changed it.
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Postby Nachokoolaid on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:43 am

You shouldn't have. Now I look like a perv and people will read my post and go "WTF is Nacho on about."

Besides, the mental image of Grendel hooking up with a lady is pretty amusing.
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby tapehead on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:45 am

'Scaly Pussy'!? W.T.F Nacho, you sick freak!?
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Postby Nachokoolaid on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:55 am

Bastard. :lol:
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby unikrunk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:25 am

Have you ever been trying to get your shut-in, hermit roommate out the door to a party, and they kept saying, “Dude, I am there, just let me finish this thingâ€
He can't' love you back...
Image
User avatar
unikrunk
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 4845
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:48 am

Postby Peven on Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:19 am

[quote="unikrunk"]Have you ever been trying to get your shut-in, hermit roommate out the door to a party, and they kept saying, “Dude, I am there, just let me finish this thingâ€
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Postby havocSchultz on Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:49 am

Of course the men would be animated better than the women...
It's tough to animate perfection...
User avatar
havocSchultz
is full of stars...
 
Posts: 15695
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:46 am
Location: living amongst a hazy nothing...

Postby Peven on Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:54 am

havocSchultz wrote:Of course the men would be animated better than the women...
It's tough to animate perfection...


what a suck-up
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14457
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

PreviousNext

Return to Animation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest