Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

[TheButcher]

High Fidelity: Why Fans Demanding Faithfulness To Their Favorite Source Material Is Damaging Movies

[Spandau Belly]

Good food for thought. Butcher. I agree with the mentality that making a good film is more important than making an accurate adaptation, and things that work in one artform don't necessarily work in another.

Sometimes they change things because they won't work on screen, and sometimes they change things because they never worked in the first place. The article mentions THE SHINING, but I find that with most Stephen King adaptations the best ones are the ones that depart heavily from his books, especially the ones that ditch King's overthetop endings.

But sometimes they just change things so some cokehead producer can justify his job or in some attempt to pander to broader audience. I could be wrong about this, but wasn't J.K. Rowling's refusal to let Spielberg do the Harry Potter movies because he wanted to change the setting to America and make the characters Americans? I'm not a Harry Potter fan, but isn't the Englishness of it all a big part of its appeal and defining character?

And sometimes it seems like they change things for the hell of it. I mean, is there a big reason why Keanu Reeves's character in DEVIL'S ADVOCATE is renamed Kevin Lomax instead of Kevin Taylor like in the book? My sister and I saw the American version of THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, and she expressed the same reaction to an apparently pointless change from the novel, she said that in the novel we never meet the recluse character but the movie decides to have him pop up for one scene just for the hell of it. These types of changes neither make nor break nor make any difference at all as far as I'm concerned, they're just changes for the sake of changes.

[Bloo]

I don't remember Spielberg wanting to change the location to America, but I do remember him being in love with the idea of Haley Joel Osment as Harry

[Ribbons]

I don't know all the specifics, but I do remember that in the early stages of its development, the producers were talking about moving H@rry Potter to an American high school. I think as a result, when they finally brought J.K. Rowling on board, part of her contract was the stipulation that every actor in the movie had to be from the British Isles.

[TheBaxter]

I don't know all the specifics, but I do remember that in the early stages of its development, the producers were talking about moving H@rry Potter to an American high school. I think as a result, when they finally brought J.K. Rowling on board, part of her contract was the stipulation that every actor in the movie had to be from the British Isles.

[so sorry]

Jack Torrence in The Shining is creepy as fuck, from the beginning of the movie (before he went "crazy") to the end.

[ironic name]

when thor drops his hammer on shield's helicarrier, hulk can't lift it, but it is being 'lifted' by the guy steering the helicarrier. how?
shouldn't it drop from the sky with magic? it was coasting along with 3 fans.

[Bloo]

when thor drops his hammer on shield's helicarrier, hulk can't lift it, but it is being 'lifted' by the guy steering the helicarrier. how?
shouldn't it drop from the sky with magic? it was coasting along with 3 fans.

well no one is technically HOLDING the hammer I guess that's how you explain that away

[ironic name]

also on avengers: black widow's scene look familiar?

[TheBaxter]

The Dictator looks absolutely terrible. every ad i've seen for it is completely unfunny. and every promo i've seen of cohen in character on SNL or at some awards ceremony is just awkward and boring.

[Peven]

also on avengers: black widow's scene look familiar?

this gives Hawkeyes' statement about someone else being inside of him whole new meaning.....

[TheBaxter]

What Hath Harry Potter Wrought?

[so sorry]

I just pre-bought a ticket for Prometheus for opening night in an IMAX 3d theater.


18 fucking bucks for one ticket. Unbelievable. Very, VERY, few movies that I'm willing to spend stupid cash like that on. And I've never seen a 3d flick, so that'll also be a first for me. No pressure Sir Ridley!

[TheBaxter]

is it a real IMAX theater or a pseudo-IMAX theater?

[so sorry]

is it a real IMAX theater or a pseudo-IMAX theater?

Oh it's real all right.

[TheBaxter]

real imax definitely makes a big difference. i've only seen one imax 3d film, and it was far and away better than any 'standard' 3d film i've seen (and that includes the fake imax screens that are really just digitally projected films on slightly larger screens)

[so sorry]

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/100-years-of-paramount-pictures.jpg

Paramount's 100 year anniversary poster. Pretty cool. Definetly some on there that I don't recognize.

[Al Shut]

And definetly some not to be proud of

[so sorry]

Its killing me to not be able to read all the activity in the Prometheus thread...

[Spandau Belly]

Yeah, I managed to stay pure on PROMETHEUS. I only saw the first trailer edit: and that Weyland trade show speech thing. Friday I'm going to roll out of bed, make a nice big breakfast, and then take a bus out the multiplex in the suburbs and enjoy the discovery.

[so sorry]

Yeah, I managed to stay pure on PROMETHEUS. I only saw the first trailer. Friday I'm going to roll out of bed, make a nice big breakfast, and then take a bus out the multiplex in the suburbs and enjoy the discovery.

Nice. I will be doing the opposite.... rolling out of bed, working hard for the money, hanging with the kiddies after work then seeing the 10pm showing (and thinking about it the whole day!).


EDIT: I guess that's really not the "opposite"

[ironic name]

also on avengers: black widow's scene look familiar?

this gives Hawkeyes' statement about someone else being inside of him whole new meaning.....

[TheButcher]

The E.T. Sequel That Never Was - Spielberg sheds some light on the darker side of E.T. and his pals.

[so sorry]

The E.T. Sequel That Never Was - Spielberg sheds some light on the darker side of E.T. and his pals.

That's a great little story. Amazing how such a thing, if made, would have probably tarnished the greatness of E.T.

Then again, he made 3 sequels to Raiders of the lost Ark which had no effect on my love of the first one, so who knows.

[TheButcher]

From EW Dec 23, 1994:
Monkey Business - Another remake of "Planet of the Apes" -- This time, Arnold Schwarzenegger gets in on the action

Oliver Stone's Planet of the Apes

Return of the Apes

By December 1993, Oliver Stone had signed on as executive producer/co-writer of a proposed new Planet of the Apes movie produced by Jane Hamsher and Swell Dude.[1] Stone's preference was for a story based on apes from an ancient civilization, with biblical connections. He explained in December 1993, "It has the discovery of cryogenically frozen Vedic Apes who hold the secret numeric codes to the Bible that foretold the end of civilizations. It deals with past versus the future. My concept is that there's a code inscribed in the Bible that predicts all historical events. The apes were there at the beginning and figured it all out."[2]

Oliver Stone recruited Australian Terry Hayes to write the screenplay, having previously had hits with Dead Calm, Mad Max 2 - The Road Warrior and Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.[1] In March 1994, Stone secured the interest of Arnold Schwarzenegger, who signed on to play the lead with the condition that he had approval of director. Schwarzenegger anticipated a violent, gory interpretation of Stone's conspiracy-theory concept.[1] Titled Return of the Apes, Hayes' screenplay begins in the near future where a plague is making humans extinct. Geneticist Will Robinson discovers the plague is a genetic time bomb embedded in the Stone Age. He time travels with a pregnant colleague named Billie Rae Diamond to a time when Palaeolithic humans were at war for the future of the planet with highly-evolved apes. Robinson and Diamond discover a young human girl named Aiv (pronounced Eve) to be the next step in evolution. They protect her from the virus, thus ensuring the survival of the human race 102,000 years later. Billie Rae gives birth to a baby boy (perhaps named Adam?).[3]

By way of background - explained much later in the script - the central character was formerly known as scientific genius Dr. Robert Plant. Making extraordinary discoveries in the study of mitochondrial DNA (mDNA), Plant’s youthful arrogance prompted a fatal mistake. He and the three young researchers he was working with drew lots for the chance to prove his theories in the research laboratories at UC Berkeley. He was left behind while the others, including Ali Conoily, to whom he was engaged, went into sensory deprivation tanks under the influence of a chemical cocktail devised by Plant. They died in the unauthorized experiment, and his career was over. He abandoned his work, changed his name to ‘Will Robinson’ (because he was “Lost in Space”), and took up a position as a lab assistant at Harvard.

The movie opens as a South American woman gives birth to a dead child. At Harvard, a group of scientists and researchers examine the body of another deceased child. The baby has the skin, the face and the features of a man of eighty. This is a new condition that is becoming an epidemic worldwide. This child was born in New York, but there are similar stories from Bolivia, Australia, seven countries in Europe, Namibia and Mexico being reported to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta. Forty-two cases in all. They died of old age, and the human race will become extinct unless a cure can be found. One of the scientists at the autopsy is Professor of Biology, Billie Rae Diamond, an attractive woman in her 30s. Now in his 40s, lab assistant Will Robinson pays more attention to the cases than anyone realizes. Later, he visits the self-storage units that hold his discredited research from many years earlier.

Shortly afterwards, Diamond gives the President an update; five thousand cases in three weeks, the number doubling every hundred and sixty-eight hours. After three months there won't be a live birth on the planet. Will visits Diamond with his briefcase full of notes and papers. After Diamond reveals that she is herself nine weeks pregnant, Will explains his hypothesis - a mutation, probably lying dormant within Mankind’s DNA for a hundred thousand years, has suddenly become active. Intrigued at how a mere lab assistant could be so knowledgeable on the subject, Diamond starts to look for clues as to his real identity. As her researchers work through piles of old journals and scientific papers on mitochondrial DNA, the same name keeps turning up - Doctor Robert Plant; degrees in medicine and microbiology; a PhD at 24; a member of the Academy of Sciences; published twenty times by 1974; and then nothing.

Meanwhile, Will uses his friendship with the university caretaker to gain access to the basement of the Psychology Department. There, he locates two long iron cylinders - isolation tanks. He sets up a make-shift laboratory to complete his research. He explains to the caretaker that by following a trail of mutations, he can date the chemical sequence changes in the DNA, and has found that the flaw first appeared one hundred and two thousand years ago. He wants to prove that he was right, that anyone that can find the right chemical key can travel back down through the DNA, through time and space. He's going to go back to try and change evolution. He slides a syringe into his forearm and climbs into the flotation tank. He spirals down a whirlpool of white light and finds himself in a cave, lying in the fetal position and bleeding from his nose and ears. Prehistoric cave paintings are etched into the rock. Will is in the plains and jungle and primordial forest of the rift valley in Kenya - the birthplace of the human race.
The Hunt

He is soon captured by a tribe of Paleolithic humans with matted hair, heavy brows and short, muscular bodies. This is the Tribe of the Tiger. A man in his late 20's - Kip-Kena - is their leader. He orders Will’s death but suddenly an army, mounted on horseback, surges into the settlement. They are heavily armed apes! At their head is a huge gorilla named Drak. He is the Lord of the High Rivers, supreme commander of the ape army. The apes are armed with crossbows and huge steam-driven machines. Trapped in a cave with the human tribe, Will jumps on the back of a horse and gallops towards freedom, Kip jumping onto the horse as it passes. Drak and his apes swing up into the trees, traveling at incredible speed. Will is knocked form the horse as Kip gallops away.

Injured, Will is loaded into a cart and taken along an avenue of towering stone statues of apes, old as ages past; over a massive iron and wood bridge spanning a roaring river; to a city cut into both sides of a jagged ravine; caves and houses and buildings made out of stone. The head of the city - an old gorilla, face gray and balding - watches the returning army with their spoils. Nazgul is the Ghan - the President - of the Council of Elders. Meanwhile, a boat containing the body of a dead ape drifts down an underground stream. A group of mourners are led by an ape wearing a lion-skin cloak. His face is scarred and twisted - he has one cruel eye, the other is just an empty socket. Beneath the cloak, one arm and leg are withered. His name is Ma-Gog, High Priest of the apes, defender of the faith, and keeper of the Book of the Lore. The boat floats out under a huge crouching ape which has been carved out of the face of a cliff, the entrance to the Temple of the Ape.

The apes have never seen anything like Will - taller, more upright and ‘uglier’ than the tribesmen, and with eyes the color of the sea. A female ape, heavy-set with an air of authority, examines Will. Her name is Doctor Zora, and she is assisted by a young male called Ben-Guri. She can see his injuries are serious and orders a vet to carry out a blood transfusion from another prisoner - a tribesman in his late 40s. His name is Aragorn and around his neck he wears a metal ornament containing symbols from the various human tribes. The unusual human specimen having been saved, the door is thrown open and Ma-Gog enters - there's something about Will that fills him with loathing: “All my life I've dreaded this day… Man can't be tamed. Alone among God's primates he kills for lust or greed. He will murder his own brother to possess his brother's land.” He turns to Nazgul - “In the name of God, summon the Council of Elders.”

In his cell, Will hears a scraping sound and sees one of the stone blocks move. Aragorn squeezes through from the adjoining cell. “I am the Ranger of the Easterlings, the Leader of the Seven Tribes. They hope the warriors will come and try to free me”, he tells Will. The ornament around his neck is called the Crescent of Light - the talisman of his rank - and is made from mithral. Will explains that he is seeking a woman who looks like him, but Aragorn has never seen such a person. The two men use the Crescent as a mirror with which to pick the cell-door lock from the outside using a pole with a nail attached to the end of it.
Urchak.JPG

In the Temple of the Ape, Nazgul, Drak and a group of five huge and old apes - the Council of Elders - are gathered. Ma-Gog stands in front of the ancient Book of the Lore and asks them “How many scrolls are there in the Book of the Lore? One-hundred-and-seventy-six, you say - but there is one more scroll, the last scroll, sealed with seven seals, handed down from high priest to high priest.” He reads, “Like through a glass, darkly, I saw the future. Behold - there rose out of the earth a pale horse and the name of the horse is Death. Those that ride on him are beasts, but like no beasts born before. Their limbs are weak but their eyes are as cold as the sea. They are given power over the earth to kill with the sword and with famine and with fire. And let him that hath understanding know the number of these beasts. It is the number of Man.” Ma-Gog tells the Elders Will must be killed or he will cause the end of the apes. Drak takes two huge guards - Max and Hannibal - and goes to carry out the order, but they find the cell empty.

Against the wishes of Will, Aragorn heads to a prison laboratory instead of leaving immediately. The two are saved from a sentry by a condemned ape named Strider, whom they free. Strider had fought another ape when he was drunk, accidentally breaking his neck. “We're not like humans. An ape never kills one of his own. Never.” In the laboratory they find six tribes-people, including Aragorn’s daughter, all of whom carry surgical scars on their heads - they have been lobotomized. Aragorn doesn't say a word; he loads the crossbow and starts to fire, killing them all. As the wolves of the pursuing apes pick up the trail of the escaped prisoners, Will’s scientific calculations prove timely, as the moon obliterates the sun in a full solar eclipse. In the confusion, Will, Aragorn and Strider charge through the doors of the prison on stolen horses.

Back in the modern era, a priest is conducting Mass for a row of tiny white coffins before a congregation of sad-eyed relatives and weeping parents. In her office, Diamond tells her colleagues Luc DeMaupassant and Bob, a young neurologist, that she has made up her mind. “We've got four weeks. The way I see it, there's nothing to lose.” She goes to Will’s laboratory and climbs into a flotation tank.

Drak addresses the ape leaders on the problem of controlling the human population and recapturing Will. “No matter how many we kill, every year they're still here. Why will it be any different with the Blue Eyes? What we need is a final solution. Doctor Zora's brought back patients from a place called Kismatu. I've been talking to her about it. It's a tiny colony farther out than even the northern frontier. Females and babies have been dying there.” Zora adds, “We don't know what causes it - a virus probably. I'd hoped to complete our research before I came to you with my proposal. But, given the circumstances…”

Making their way to Aragorn’s people, Strider tells Will what he knows about Zora's disease. The three fugitives are startled to hear noises in a cave, but Will recognizes Diamond, who has followed him here. Aragorn finds secret messages left for him - Kip-Kena has called a gathering of the Seven Tribes of humans at the place called the Eagle's Nest. Will explains to Diamond that the apes have discovered a disease in an isolated area. They understand its potential and plan to give it to the human tribes. Diamond notes that perhaps they will succeed, given that Aragorn's people are destined to die out anyway, but that the mother of the human race must not be exposed to the disease. It won't seem to work on her, but it will be integrated into her DNA like a time-bomb waiting to go off.

At the gathering, Kip-Kena warmly greets both his leader Aragorn and Will, the man who saved his life. As the six leaders present discuss their options, the head of the Rainbow Tribe has an ominous prediction. “A stranger walks out of the west, the moon hides the sun, armies are on the march - come the new moon, nothing in Middle Earth will be the same.” Aragorn, still crushed at having to kill his daughter, unfastens the Crescent of Light and slips it around Kip's neck, telling him “If I should have had a son, I would have hoped for a man as fine as you. This is my last act as Ranger of the Easterlings.” The humans resolve to fight the apes chasing Aragorn, Will and Strider.

An epic battle ensues throughout the jungle, in which Will uses his scientific advantage to invent gunpowder-based weapons, to devastating effect. The Tribe of the Antelope arrives to boost the human forces, and Diamond sees among them a young blonde ‘mutant’ girl who is clearly the forerunner of modern man. Named Aiv, she has been shunned by her people because of her ‘ugliness’. Ultimately, the ape army has vastly superior numbers and they crush the human alliance, killing or capturing almost all of the tribes-people. Aiv is captured; Aragorn is missing; Kip is killed, and his surviving followers decide to abandon their sacred valley. Will, Diamond and Strider however, must somehow free Aiv to ensure the survival of the human race, and therefore of Diamond’s unborn son.
The City

Strider takes them to a part of the great river where they will be able to cross via a rope, but the river mists clear while they are crossing, just long enough for sentries on the ape bridges to spot them. Will is shot with a crossbow, while Strider gets swept over the Falls to his death. The remnants of the human tribes have meanwhile stumbled across Aragorn and a group of his fiercest warriors, who were chased deep into the forest. He rallies the survivors, and the women of the tribe offer to fight alongside their men for the first time. In Zora’s laboratory, five infected baby apes sit on cots as Zora inserts a syringe into the smallest ape's arm and draws out a cup of blood. She turns to her assistant and asks, “Is the girl animal ready?” In the adjoining operating theater, Aiv is being prepared for infection when suddenly Will appears at the door and takes out the guards. Diamond takes Aiv and dashes for safety. Will tries to buy them some time by distracting the apes.

As Nazgul surveys his city he notices one the steam-driven machines coming in his direction. Too late he realizes the driver is Will, who activates the flame-thrower and sends Nazgul and his guards writhing and plummeting down to their deaths. The Ape City is burning. Ma-Gog stands high above directing the soldiers until Aragorn arrives, backed by the men and women of the Tribes. “For my people”, Aragorn spears Ma-Gog in the gut. “And this - for my daughter!” - he drives the spear into the High Priest's heart. Aragorn turns to see Drak on horseback, thundering towards him. Drak’s harpoon smashes through Aragorn's chest, killing him. After a long chase, Will sees an opportunity to rescue Diamond and Aiv from Drak's pursuit. At the controls of another of the ape machines, Will locks metal jaws around Drak's waist, plucking him off his horse and lifting him up into the air. He and Will look straight at one another, as Drak's finger starts to slide off the harpoon trigger. His severed legs seem to still kick as they fall to the ground.

Some time later on a golden beach Will is on top of a rocky cliff, building something out of iron and rock and sand. After Aiv helps Diamond give birth to a healthy son - the proof that their plan succeeded - we see what Will was building: a sculpture of the head and crown of the Statue of Liberty. He tells them, “It's to make sure we never forget where we came from.”

The script bore little resemblence to anything associated with Planet of the Apes up to that point. It was set in the very distant past rather than the distant future, putting a different perspective on the concept. Aside from the inclusion of an advanced society of gorillas (but no other apes), the story was more akin to a crossover of One Million Years B.C. and Lord of the Rings. Indeed there is far more reference to Tolkien's trilogy than to the Apes book and movies; 'Ma-Gog', 'Nazgul', 'Aragorn the Ranger of the Easterlings', 'Strider' and 'Middle Earth' are all lifted directly. The only connections to the Apes series are 'Dr. Zora' - a sinister inversion of Dr. Zira, a few quotes (“All my life I've dreaded this day… Man can't be tamed. Alone among God's primates he kills for lust or greed. He will murder his own brother to possess his brother's land.”, “An ape never kills one of his own.”), and an incongruous but inevitable Statue of Liberty added at the last minute. There are also references to Lost in Space ('Will Robinson') and Led Zeppelin ('Robert Plant'), and a few examples of the Biblical links suggested by Oliver Stone, with Ma-Gog quoting from the Book of Revelation and Strider recognising Will's Christian prayer as being of ape origin. However, apart from these, and a rather dubious time-travel concept (inspired by the movie Altered States, according to producer Swell Dude),[4] the story is well-paced with plenty of action and adventure and a rewardingly complex plot, albeit one with little to add to the established Planet of the Apes universe.

Phillip Noyce (Dead Calm, Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger) was selected as director in January 1995, and pre-production was planned with a $100 million budget.[5] Stone first approached Rick Baker to design the prosthetic makeup, but eventually opted for Stan Winston. A later, uncorroborated, rumor claimed that Ben Kingsley was in line for the role of Will Robinson, the scientist who travels back in time, with Schwarzenegger cast as the leader of the Stone Age men in the distant past - a role perhaps more suited to the muscular action hero.[6]

Yet, while Fox Chairman Peter Chernin called Hayes' time-travel action romp "one of the best scripts I ever read", Fox executives became frustrated by the distance between their approach and Hayes' interpretation.[3][7] According to Jane Hamsher, head of production Dylan Sellers felt the script could be improved by including comedy elements. "What if Robinson finds himself in Ape land and the Apes are trying to play baseball? But they're missing one element, like the pitcher or something," Hamsher quoted Sellers, "Robinson knows what they're missing and he shows them, and they all start playing." Sellers refused to give up his baseball idea, and when Hayes turned in his final draft in spring 1995, sans baseball scene, Sellers fired him.[8] As Swell Dude put it, "Terry wrote a 'Terminator' and Fox wanted 'The Flintstones'". Dissatisfied with Sellers' decision to fire Hayes, Phillip Noyce left Return of the Apes in February 1995 to work on The Saint.[1] Oliver Stone switched his attention to other film projects, and Swell Dude and Jane Hamsher were bought off the project by Fox. Dylan Sellers' responsabilities were passed on to new head of production Tom Rothman after a car accident in late 1995.[3]

[so sorry]

[TheBaxter]

you know, there are things i can accept. i can accept apes that walk and talk like humans (and are apparently big Tolkien fans). i can accept a genetic virus that lies dormant for 100,000 years before activating. i can accept DNA-based time travel. i can accept an ancient ape army with steam-powered weapons and vehicles and a massive stone city, that leave no trace behind for archaeologists to discover centuries later. i can accept all of that.




but arnold schwarzenegger as a scientific genius? now that's just silly.

[so sorry]

That's seriously one of the dumbest ideas for a script I've ever read. I'm not even sure that's real...it has to be fan fiction, right? Thank the Lord that fucking thing never made it to the big screen...makes Burton's PoTA look like Citizen Kane.

[justcheckin]

Maybe they are thinking of this...



Wasn't Mr. Freeze a scientist?

[Spandau Belly]

That was a hugely entertaining read. Thank you Butcher. I would definitely travel back to the early 90s and go see that PLANET OF THE APES movie. Britt Marling could be my date.

This treatment skips over the main character also being the lead singer of Led Zepplin. I assume the full script probably goes into more detail about the English lead singer of a huge rock band ditching his fame by molding himself into an Austrian bodybuilder so that he could become a scientist. Or maybe they'll leave that for the prequel.

[The Vicar]

That's seriously one of the dumbest ideas for a script I've ever read. I'm not even sure that's real...it has to be fan fiction, right? Thank the Lord that fucking thing never made it to the big screen...makes Burton's PoTA look like Citizen Kane.

Spit take #7 - screen demolished. Thanks, amigo.

[SilentBobX]

After reading that I'm stunned that is WASN'T made. Considering the atrocious shit that we've gotten in recent memory, it's a wonder. Must've been the Tolkien references that sunk it. I can't imagine his heirs reading about not getting a LOTR movie, but a movie about apes referencing his book. Astonishing.

BTW, Mr Friesz(Freeze) was a scientist in the comics specializing in.......wait for it now....... cryogenics. Gee, who'd have thunk that? It's like Dr. Blood being a hematologist, or Dr. Snake being a herpetologist, or Dr. Fate who.....well you get the idea.


Mahalo

[TheBaxter]

After reading that I'm stunned that is WASN'T made. Considering the atrocious shit that we've gotten in recent memory, it's a wonder. Must've been the Tolkien references that sunk it. I can't imagine his heirs reading about not getting a LOTR movie, but a movie about apes referencing his book. Astonishing.

BTW, Mr Friesz(Freeze) was a scientist in the comics specializing in.......wait for it now....... cryogenics. Gee, who'd have thunk that? It's like Dr. Blood being a hematologist, or Dr. Snake being a herpetologist, or Dr. Fate who.....well you get the idea.


Mahalo

or Dr. Plant being a biologist?

[Al Shut]

Why doesn't the end of The Long Goodbye feature the damn song?

It was omnipresent throughout the movie. Characters were even humming and whistling it. If the movie was made today it would have been Marlowe's ringtone. I ws expecting it. Iwas even looking forward to it. It would have fitted perfectly in my opinion. And now I'm have been taken so aback that I wasn't able to wrap my head around this for two days straight.

[BuckyO'harre]

Why doesn't the end of The Long Goodbye feature the damn song?

It was omnipresent throughout the movie. Characters were even humming and whistling it. If the movie was made today it would have been Marlowe's ringtone. I ws expecting it. Iwas even looking forward to it. It would have fitted perfectly in my opinion. And now I'm have been taken so aback that I wasn't able to wrap my head around this for two days straight.

Thanks for reminding me that I had never seen this.

As for the song, I think 'Hooray for Hollywood' was completely appropriate. It's easy to forget that it plays over the opening shot as well. More than that, it serves as a sort of satirical comment and parallel. Anyone can make it big... so long as you don't mind stepping over everyone and backstabbing your best friend. It's also very upbeat, which normally doesn't fit with noir endings, but this time the protagonist isn't weary from some half-victory. He's heard his wakeup call and puts things right as far as he's concerned. Marlowe killing Terry apparently didn't sit well with purists, but that was part of bringing the character to the (then) present.

[Al Shut]

Thanks for reminding me that I had never seen this.

I aim to please.

As for the song, I think 'Hooray for Hollywood' was completely appropriate. It's easy to forget that it plays over the opening shot as well.

True, I completely forgot about the opening (happens a lot to me). I wasn't thinking inappropriate, more surprising and a tad disappointing as I was really looking forward to listening a full version of 'The Long Goodbye' rolling over the credits without being interrupted or distracted by the movie.

But now that you mention

It's also very upbeat, which normally doesn't fit with noir endings, but this time the protagonist isn't weary from some half-victory. He's heard his wakeup call and puts things right as far as he's concerned.

I can't help but disagree. I can't imagine Marlowe being satisfied with how things turn out, weary from some half-victory is actually a good way to put it, if not too optimistic. It didn't seem like a Hooray for Hollywood movie where you shoot the bad guy in the end and everything is fine

Shit, now I don't know if the song didn't fit or if I was seeing things in the movie that were not there because I was listening to the music my head rather than to the one that was actually playing.

[BuckyO'harre]

But now that you mention

It's also very upbeat, which normally doesn't fit with noir endings, but this time the protagonist isn't weary from some half-victory. He's heard his wakeup call and puts things right as far as he's concerned.

I can't help but disagree. I can't imagine Marlowe being satisfied with how things turn out, weary from some half-victory is actually a good way to put it, if not too optimistic. It didn't seem like a Hooray for Hollywood movie where you shoot the bad guy in the end and everything is fine

I didn't mean it quite that way. More that Marlowe accepts that the betrayal wasn't as personal as he thought. After he hears Terry's justification he realizes that the guy was scum (an actor if you will) and hadn't really been his friend for a long time. So then he's able to let it roll off his back. "Hooray for Hollywood!, thanks for teaching me a lesson." An extended version of 'The Long Goodbye' would have been poignant only if he had reason to regret killing the bastard, but he doesn't.

That's just how I see it though.

[Al Shut]

Sounds like it makes sense, now I just need the opportunity to rewatch the movie.

which i haven't

[bastard_robo]

Was watching the Muppets (new one) recently, and I just noticed:

Dose anyone not realize that Gonzo is a chicken fucker? I know Camilla is is wife or something, but he's fucking a chicken..

[BuckyO'harre]

Was watching the Muppets (new one) recently, and I just noticed:

Dose anyone not realize that Gonzo is a chicken fucker? I know Camilla is is wife or something, but he's fucking a chicken..

It's okay for a frog to fuck a pig?
Besides, I doubt bestiality laws apply to alien whatevers.

[TheBaxter]

Was watching the Muppets (new one) recently, and I just noticed:

Dose anyone not realize that Gonzo is a chicken fucker? I know Camilla is is wife or something, but he's fucking a chicken..

It's okay for a frog to fuck a pig?
Besides, I doubt bestiality laws apply to alien whatevers.

what do you get when a frog fucks a pig?

a prog

[TheButcher]

The E.T. Sequel That Never Was - Spielberg sheds some light on the darker side of E.T. and his pals.

That's a great little story. Amazing how such a thing, if made, would have probably tarnished the greatness of E.T.

Then again, he made 3 sequels to Raiders of the lost Ark which had no effect on my love of the first one, so who knows.

George Lucas' attack of the clones - There was a reason why Spielberg let 'E.T.' stay home

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things," the protagonist says in "The Shawshank Redemption." "And no good thing ever dies."

In movie parlance, substitute "a box office hit" for "hope," and you have a good template for the current mentality of the business.

Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm brought the welcome news there will be another trilogy of "Star Wars" films, which is hardly a surprise. That portion of the announcement represented a balm to Wall Street, offering instant hope of the studio recouping its $4 billion investment.

Except George Lucas himself stated when the second trio of "Star Wars" movies were produced those chapters would mark the end of the line.

"I will not do VII, VIII and IX," he told reporters as he launched the prequels in 1999, insisting nobody else would either. "This is it. This is all there is."

The return of Lucas' Jedi thus provides a reminder how the movie business has evolved, to the point where nothing successful can be allowed to fade away.

In that respect, it's fascinating to peruse the filmography of Steven Spielberg, and realize while versions of "Jaws" and Indiana Jones kept resurfacing, "E.T. the Extraterrestrial" didn't just go home -- but remarkably, actually stayed there.

This year at the American Film Institute, Spielberg addressed why an "E.T." sequel -- discussed, but scratched -- never happened.

"Sequels can be very dangerous because they compromise your truth as an artist," he said. "I think a sequel to 'E.T.' would do nothing but rob the original of its virginity. People only remember the latest episode, while the pilot tarnishes."

It's certainly one reason why "E.T." is remembered so fondly. If only the director had applied the same rigor to Indy, fans would have been spared the survive-nuclear-blast-in-refrigerator interlude.

The steadfast reliance on movie franchises has changed since "E.T." went over the moon 30 years ago. Yes, there were sequels, but the notion of eternal cinematic life hadn't evolved to the point it's reached today.

From that perspective, it's hard to imagine a studio sitting idly by for a creative demurral, even with a filmmaker of Spielberg's clout, simply to protect the perceived virtue of a film yielding such a stellar payoff.

Similarly, consider James Bond, who spent nearly three decades fighting a version of the Cold War on screen, only to soldier on 20 more years after the Berlin Wall fell -- reinventing himself several times along the way -- as MGM (and now Sony) desperately clawed for something to roar about.

More improbably, the 23rd Bond feature, "Skyfall," demonstrates even with such a long-in-the-tooth commodity it's possible to exhibit wit and ingenuity as well as nostalgia. That's quite an accomplishment when, as Wall Street Journal critic Joe Morgenstern noted, Bond "by any rational measure is a vestige of a vanished era."

There's an interesting dichotomy here between movies and TV, which explains in part why the latter's creative and cultural esteem has risen, while film -- at least in terms of major studios -- is occasionally dismissed as a widget factory, churning out superhero sequels and summer tentpoles, with little room for prestige fare on release schedules.

Once predicated on slavishly replicating success for as long as possible, TV has become richer and more complex by allowing producers of programs like "Lost" and "Breaking Bad" to designate end dates and build toward them. By contrast, even if movies foster the illusion of closure, no one believes there won't be more Batman films just because director Christopher Nolan completed his trilogy and opted to move on.

If the current model represents a triumph of commerce, the audience's complicity makes it difficult to second-guess studios for clinging to proven titles -- enabling them to extend Bond past his logical expiration date and reboot Spider-Man in record time.

That said, it's still comforting to think we weren't visited with multiple incarnations of "E.T.," instead allowing the wrinkled botanist to escape into the night sky, forever.

Unlike some sci fi, "Star Wars" -- with its Saturday-matinee sensibilities -- isn't accused of being especially prescient. Yet in one of his titles, Lucas inadvertently forecast the trend in movies: "Attack of the Clones."

[TheBaxter]

it's funny that the defining characteristic that sets the ET sequel aliens apart as EVIL is that they're "carnivorous". considering that over 80% of the earth's population is also carnivorous, i guess that means we had it coming.

[TheButcher]

Lily Tomlin taps her feminist experience for 'Admission'
Lily Tomlin 'really plugged into' her role as a '60s radical feminist, now mother to Tina Fey's character, in the comedy 'Admission.'

[TheButcher]

Remembering The Warriors
One of the most influential films of the 70s, The Warriors may have been Walter Hill's finest hour. Craig looks back at an action classic...