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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:45 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
I'd lvoe to see what WW's secret identity is like, especailly what a Wonder Shagger she'll be. I dunno about you guys, but I think she's Thurman Murman. I wanna see her shag even more now.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:58 pm
by The Ginger Man
Ok...a lot of responses since I left my computer. I will try to cover them all.

Rogue- Clark Kent only makes Superman interesting if he's allowed to be interesting. In SR, he didn't serve to humanize Superman b/c all the humanizing story points happened to Superman, not Clark. Superman lost Lois, Superman had a child. Clark just got his job back.

Peven- I don't think the lack of secret identity nulls character development or keeps the character in costume the whole movie. Diana is a princess and emissary from the Amazon's island, Themyscira. After her reboot in 1987, she didn't keep her identity secret b/c she had no reason to. And she didn't see herself necessarily as a superhero. As an Amazon, Diana IS Wonder Woman, they are the same person. She wasn't raised by humans like Superman. A fake secret identity takes away from who she really is. And I think this angle is far more interesting and full of potential than WW pretending to be normal during the day and figthing crime at night.

Same goes for Hal Jordan as Green Lantern. I don't need to see a story about GL fighting crime and being Hal on the side. Why not a cosmic film where the universe knows of Hal Jordan as the Green Lantern of Earth. By combining the two personas you allow for different stories that can be both action and character driven.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:14 pm
by The Ginger Man
RogueScribner wrote:But that's just it. Do we want Wonder Woman "on" all the time? She's from a secluded island community steeped in tradition. It makes sense that she'd want some privacy from the public. Easiest way to do that is to assume another identity when she's not playing hero.


Not having a secret identity doesn't mean she has to be "on" all the time. I think the difference with WW vs other heros is that she was WW first. Whatever persona she takes on is fake. Not the real person. It's her island/Amazonian roots that make me think she's too proud to hide behind the identity of a nurse, military intelligence agent, boutique owner, or secret agent. Especially when there is a precedent for her not having a secret identity.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:20 pm
by Peven
ok Ginger, but the question stands; what does WW do, where does she go, during the 70% of the movie where she isn't actively duking it out with villians? what happens with her story? she isn't a detective like Batman, is she? fill me in. is there material for her life with the Amazonians to fill up story/plot?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:26 pm
by Ribbons
Well she can chill with Steve Trevor, eat some ice cream, learn about the ways of the world or whatever. I don't know, that's all I got.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:28 pm
by The Ginger Man
Peven wrote:ok Ginger, but the question stands; what does WW do, where does she go, during the 70% of the movie where she isn't actively duking it out with villians? what happens with her story? she isn't a detective like Batman, is she? fill me in. is there material for her life with the Amazonians to fill up story/plot?


Since I am not a WW scholar, I can't give you exact story details, but WW spent about 15 years in the comics w/o a secret identity, so I'm sure there is more than enough to choose from. Instead, I will quote from Wikipedia.

"Wonder Woman did not keep her identity a secret, and initially did not consider herself a superheroine. Indeed, her character was wide-eyed and naive, innocent and without guile. Diana spoke only Themyscirian, a variation of ancient Greek, and had to learn English when she arrived in America. Fortunately, Diana soon met Julia Kapatelis, a scholar in Greek culture and her daughter Vanessa Kapatelis who helped the Amazon princess adjust to the world of Men. However for all her apparent naiveté, Diana was a trained warrior, and had no compunction against using deadly force when called for. (For example, she felled the god Deimos in battle and felt completely justified under the circumstances.) Through Pérez's tenure on the book, Diana confronted war, injustice, inequality, death, and conflicts involving the Olympian Gods."

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:29 pm
by so sorry
she does what all women do in their downtime: cook potpie, get pregnant and bug the shit out of me for jewelry.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:13 pm
by MasterWhedon
Just got clued into this conversation, and I have to say I agree with Ginger 100%. The secret identity issue is pretty fundamental to certain heroes' stories, but it feels waaaaaaay too forced in others. Why should we play the "Hal Jordan can't tell people he's the Green Lantern because his girlfriend might get killed" card when the "Earthman is loved by his people and embraced as a god after being chosen to be cosmic guardian" one has never been used? One is clearly a more interesting--and original--story than the other.

I'm not a Wonder Woman scholar and I don't really know what I'd do with her if given the chance, but my perception is that she's a goddess and that she'd have no interest in pretending to be a human. What does that mean, narratively-speaking? I'm not sure exactly. It wouldn't just be her running around in costume the whole time, but it damn sure wouldn't mean giving her a day job.

There are also some really fun places to go with the idea of public superheroes, especially in terms of modern celebrity. The Ultimates 2 hits on many, many fun areas to be explored, and the B- and C-level superheroes (Wonder Woman is probably a B+/A-, IMO) are the ones with the most freedom to explore new territory.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:27 pm
by Adam Balm
You know, as much as the Zone can become on big circle jerk sometimes, us all congratulating one another on being so witty and clever...

...can I just say that you guys rock?

I love discussions like this. Stuff like this is what makes it impossible to leave here...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:01 pm
by RogueScribner
Ginger and MW,

I see what you're saying and I guess I kinda agree. Superman was raised as a human and would naturally still crave a little of that life he can't have when he wears the red and blue. Batman is a vigilante whose disguise works towards his purposes in crimefighting. I know exactly jack and shit about Wonder Woman save for what little I gleaned from Justice League and the old Lynda Carter series. So what you're suggesting could work perfectly well for that character. I guess I just imagined non-secret identity to mean always-wearing-the-costume, which may not be the case. I think it makes sense she'd not draw attention to herself sometimes just so she could observe the (new) world around her.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:42 pm
by Peven
just for the record, i wasn't disagreeing with Ginger so much as wondering what direction he thought would be best to go if not the standard duel identity/personality route, being that i have so little knowledge of WW in the comics.

now, as to this congratulations for being witty and clever Adam speaks of, where do i go to get mine? :D

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:09 pm
by Adam Balm
Peven wrote:now, as to this congratulations for being witty and clever Adam speaks of, where do i go to get mine? :D


Well, you were part of the discussion I was referring to when I said 'you guys rock' so I suppose one can take that as congratulations...

...if one were so inclined.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:25 pm
by The Ginger Man
Not to thread jack, but since WW is dead for the moment. What other superheroes do you think would work better on film w/o the "secret identity" angle? I again put forward Thor, Capt. America, Green Lantern, Namor, and Doctor Strange. Though I don't know that Doc Strange has a secret identity. Anyway...others?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:30 pm
by Adam Balm
Does Adam Strange count as a secret ID? He doesn't have an alter ego or codename. Technically he doesn't wear a costume, he wears a space suit. And he's known to everyone on Rann... (Just not on earth.)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:33 pm
by The Ginger Man
But didn't Adam keep getting locked up on Earth for being "crazy" and thinking he's travelling to other planets? That could make for an interesting and different twist on the secret identity.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:38 pm
by Adam Balm
Yeah. It would make a great Total Recall vibe.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:39 pm
by buster00
The Ginger Man wrote:But didn't Adam keep getting locked up on Earth for being "crazy" and thinking he's travelling to other planets? That could make for an interesting and different twist on the secret identity...kinda.


That would be a VERY cool movie if handled properly. Like K-PAX, but with super-bad outer space ackshun!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:41 pm
by The Ginger Man
Dammit! Now I want a well-handled Adam Strange film!!!!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:44 pm
by Adam Balm
With Doug Hutchison as Adam Strange....oh shit wrong thread...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:46 pm
by The Ginger Man
Adam Balm wrote:With Doug Hutchison as Adam Strange....oh shit wrong thread...


HAHAHAHAHAHA! It's funnier b/c we're the only people who get it. ;-)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:12 pm
by RogueScribner
Apparently Joss Whedon was on something called Fanboy Radio a few days ago and he talked a little about Wonder Woman.


Joss Whedon: I'm writing it...I'm still writing it. I know that sounds ridiculous, I know that by this point it must sound like "Rememberances of Wonder Woman Past" or be 1000 pages long, but it's not, I'm just slogging away. So there's really nothing to say, except that I'm the sort of person who likes to do things meticulously.

Fanboy Radio: What's your overall take on the character of Diana Prince? Is she an Intimidating feminist? A caring naturalist? A straight up Super Hero?

Joss Whedon: Yes.

She is intimidating because she's an amazon and a princess, and someone who believes very strongly in what she is, I don't believe she's an intimidating feminist in the way that term is usually used, um...it's not because she's a feminist that she's intimidating, it's cause she's frickin' Wonder Woman. And she can kill you with her pinky ( but she doesn't, cause she's good ) but the thing that is interesting about her is that she's so righteous and so above human nature that she doesn't see these things in herself, and it's not until she does that she's that effective a Super Hero.

Fanboy Radio: Will this be set in WWII?

Joss Whedon: No, It's a modern story...well, as much as her story ever will be.

You gotta have the bracelets, you gotta have the Lasso, and if I have my way, you gotta have the Invisible Jet. The fact is, she is who she is, and I think there is something very cool about all of those things, particularly the bracelets and the lasso. They are very much a part of who she is, especially in my screenplay. I love them very much. So worry not on that front.



So no "star-spangled panties" but he's going with the bracelets, magic lasso, and possibly the invisible jet. So she's definitely not flying of her own volition. I think an invisible jet is hokier than being able to fly, but that's just me. I wish there was some concept art or something of what he's thinking. I'm really curious.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:17 pm
by MasterWhedon
Yeah, I'm way curious as to how you make an invisible jet work, but the bracelets and the lasso make me happy--as does the idea that she might be getting pants. It does a tremendous disservice to female superheroes that they all need to be dressed in teeny little bathing suits. Get her some fucking pants, already!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:27 pm
by Ribbons
Invisible Plane = Flames on Batmobile

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:32 pm
by MasterWhedon
Ribbons wrote:Invisible Plane = Flames on Batmobile

Can you imagine an alien culture trying to decipher our communications and stumbling onto the inernet? Man, I feel sorry for them because there are, like, eight different things going on just in that bit.

:D

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:39 pm
by RogueScribner
God help anyone trying to decipher the internet!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:43 pm
by Ribbons
I think Kirks will probably break them.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:47 pm
by RogueScribner
You know, intellectually I get why Whedon is down on star-spangled panties, but hormonally, I think he's crazy, especially when I see things like this:

(possibly NSFW)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4529/wonderwomands6.jpg

Who wouldn't want to see that on the big screen, hmmm? :)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:50 pm
by MasterWhedon
RogueScribner wrote:You know, intellectually I get why Whedon is down on star-spangled panties, but hormonally, I think he's crazy, especially when I see things like this:

(possibly NSFW)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4529/wonderwomands6.jpg

Who wouldn't want to see that on the big screen, hmmm? :)

HAHAHAHAHA!! Dirty!

I take back what I said! Give no women pants!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:42 pm
by RogueScribner
Warners lassos "Wonder Woman" spec script

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Warner Bros. Pictures and Silver Pictures are quietly in the process of buying a "Wonder Woman" spec script from newcomers Matthew Jennison and Brent Strickland, sources said.

The studio and producer Joel Silver have been developing a big-screen version of the DC Comics superhero, with "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" creator Joss Whedon writing the script and attached to direct.

So why does the studio want another "Wonder Woman" script? Sources said the purchase is a pre-emptive measure. By taking the spec script off the market, it aims to protect itself against the possibility that any similarities between the scripts could be fodder for future legal action.

It is understood that the Jennison-Strickland script is set against the backdrop of World War II, while Whedon's script is set in the present day.

Silver has no interest in making a period version of "Wonder Woman," sources said. But as the spec script made the rounds, it landed at Silver Pictures, and executives there were impressed by Jennison and Strickland's writing.

"Wonder Woman" has long been in the hopper as a feature at Warners, and it went through several writers before Whedon came on board in March 2005.

Reps for Warners and Silver Pictures declined comment.


I hope I can take this story at face value and there's not something else going on. Is it normal for a writer/director to be attached to a project this long and not be in production? It's been almost two years and it doesn't look like Whedon has given a script to Warner Bros. they want to greenlight. What's up?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:48 pm
by Peven
RogueScribner wrote:You know, intellectually I get why Whedon is down on star-spangled panties, but hormonally, I think he's crazy, especially when I see things like this:

(possibly NSFW)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4529/wonderwomands6.jpg

Who wouldn't want to see that on the big screen, hmmm? :)


i'd rather see that on my face.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:57 pm
by MasterWhedon
RogueScribner wrote:Warners lassos "Wonder Woman" spec script

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Warner Bros. Pictures and Silver Pictures are quietly in the process of buying a "Wonder Woman" spec script from newcomers Matthew Jennison and Brent Strickland, sources said.

The studio and producer Joel Silver have been developing a big-screen version of the DC Comics superhero, with "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" creator Joss Whedon writing the script and attached to direct.

So why does the studio want another "Wonder Woman" script? Sources said the purchase is a pre-emptive measure. By taking the spec script off the market, it aims to protect itself against the possibility that any similarities between the scripts could be fodder for future legal action.

It is understood that the Jennison-Strickland script is set against the backdrop of World War II, while Whedon's script is set in the present day.

Silver has no interest in making a period version of "Wonder Woman," sources said. But as the spec script made the rounds, it landed at Silver Pictures, and executives there were impressed by Jennison and Strickland's writing.

"Wonder Woman" has long been in the hopper as a feature at Warners, and it went through several writers before Whedon came on board in March 2005.

Reps for Warners and Silver Pictures declined comment.


I hope I can take this story at face value and there's not something else going on. Is it normal for a writer/director to be attached to a project this long and not be in production? It's been almost two years and it doesn't look like Whedon has given a script to Warner Bros. they want to greenlight. What's up?

I bet the whole situation is either a) a genuine attempt for them to snatch some young talent while averting any legal difficulties, or b) a backdoor plan for them to steal some supercool elements from the script by giving the kids some hush money.

This thing is taking waaaaay too long though, and it's probably because the man does waaaaaay too much. As much as I love Astonishing X-Men and will likely love Runaways, Goners, etc.--focus on one thing at a time and get the damn thing done!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:02 pm
by RogueScribner
MasterWhedon wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:Warners lassos "Wonder Woman" spec script

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Warner Bros. Pictures and Silver Pictures are quietly in the process of buying a "Wonder Woman" spec script from newcomers Matthew Jennison and Brent Strickland, sources said.

The studio and producer Joel Silver have been developing a big-screen version of the DC Comics superhero, with "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" creator Joss Whedon writing the script and attached to direct.

So why does the studio want another "Wonder Woman" script? Sources said the purchase is a pre-emptive measure. By taking the spec script off the market, it aims to protect itself against the possibility that any similarities between the scripts could be fodder for future legal action.

It is understood that the Jennison-Strickland script is set against the backdrop of World War II, while Whedon's script is set in the present day.

Silver has no interest in making a period version of "Wonder Woman," sources said. But as the spec script made the rounds, it landed at Silver Pictures, and executives there were impressed by Jennison and Strickland's writing.

"Wonder Woman" has long been in the hopper as a feature at Warners, and it went through several writers before Whedon came on board in March 2005.

Reps for Warners and Silver Pictures declined comment.


I hope I can take this story at face value and there's not something else going on. Is it normal for a writer/director to be attached to a project this long and not be in production? It's been almost two years and it doesn't look like Whedon has given a script to Warner Bros. they want to greenlight. What's up?

I bet the whole situation is either a) a genuine attempt for them to snatch some young talent while averting any legal difficulties, or b) a backdoor plan for them to steal some supercool elements from the script by giving the kids some hush money.

This thing is taking waaaaay too long though, and it's probably because the man does waaaaaay too much. As much as I love Astonishing X-Men and will likely love Runaways, Goners, etc.--focus on one thing at a time and get the damn thing done!



HEAR! HEAR!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:18 pm
by Leckomaniac
The thing is...he isn't the only writer alive who juggles a huge workload. Joss just doesn't have very good time management.

He needs to stop biting off too much than he can chew.

Lets go Joss!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:20 pm
by Leckomaniac
JOSS WHEDON OFF OF WONDER WOMAN!

DAMN IT! MASTERWHEDON WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN UP TOO?!?!?!?!?!?!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:24 pm
by MasterWhedon
:shock:

FUCK!!

Seriously? What the fuck?!

Can anyone get through to Whedonesque for his statement? The link is down, it seems.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:25 pm
by Leckomaniac
Will do MW

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:25 pm
by Leckomaniac
Here is Joss's statement:

Joss Whedon wrote:SATIN TIGHTS NO LONGER. Joss will not be fighting for our rights after all.

You (hopefully) heard it here first: I'm no longer slated to make Wonder Woman. What? But how? My chest... so tight! Okay, stay calm and I'll explain as best I can. It's pretty complicated, so bear with me. I had a take on the film that, well, nobody liked. Hey, not that complicated.

Let me stress first that everybody at the studio and Silver Pictures were cool and professional. We just saw different movies, and at the price range this kind of movie hangs in, that's never gonna work. Non-sympatico. It happens all the time. I don't think any of us expected it to this time, but it did. Everybody knows how long I was taking, what a struggle that script was, and though I felt good about what I was coming up with, it was never gonna be a simple slam-dunk. I like to think it rolled around the rim a little bit, but others may have differing views.

The worst thing that can happen in this scenario is that the studio just keeps hammering out changes and the writer falls into a horrible limbo of development. These guys had the clarity and grace to skip that part. So I'm a free man.

Well, sorta. There is that "Goners" movie I can finally finish polishing, and plenty of other things in the hopper I've wanted to pursue. I'm as relieved as I am disappointed, and both of those things lead to drink, so that's a plus. Truly, you may be hearing some interesting things brewing in the coming months. But all potential jets therein will be visible.

But most importantly, I never have to answer THAT question again!!!! And you don't have to link to every rumor site! Finally and forever: I never had an actress picked out, or even a consistant front-runner. I didn't have time to waste on casting when I was so busy air-balling on the script. (No! Rim! There was rim!) That's the greatest relief of all. I can do interviews again!

Thanks for your time. You are the people who make the world go 'round. Or, no, science does that.

-j.

ps All right, it was Cobie Smulders. Sorry, Cobes.


Well at least he didn't have to make a movie he didn't want to make. He had a vision...that didn't gel with what they wanted and they parted ways. It is just too bad that it had to take this long. Perhaps they will be moving forward with that recently purchased script? That would be my guess.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
by RogueScribner
I kinda feel like Joss. I'm disappointed and relieved at the same time. I'm down that it never came to pass, but happy he can move on to other things. Hopefully.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:32 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
Adam Balm wrote:You know, as much as the Zone can become on big circle jerk sometimes, us all congratulating one another on being so witty and clever...

...can I just say that you guys rock?


No.

Whedon also said that he NEVER had an actress picked out. Does this mean that Rachel Bilson was never definite? Or if she was cast, is she still gonna play her now?

As for Whedon's statement about leaving the film, I guess he's saying that it was never to be. So we never lost something that never was in the first place. Try to find comfort in your mourning in what I just said.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:34 pm
by The Ginger Man
I'm glad he tossed out his actress pic at the end. Cobie would have been quite good, I think.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:34 pm
by MasterWhedon
Image

I agree with you guys, in that it's cool for him to be off the project rather than be stuck dicking around with something he didn't love, but I'm still majorly disappointed. It's not even that I'm a Wonder Woman fiend, but that I was really intrigued to see his take on the material. And, quite frankly, I was hoping a big-deal Hollywood blockbuster on this scale would take him to the next level of power-player.

But oh well... On to the next thing.

:(

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:35 pm
by MasterWhedon
The Ginger Man wrote:I'm glad he tossed out his actress pic at the end. Cobie would have been quite good, I think.

She's way hot, and really funny on How I Met Your Mother.

Then again, I wonder if he threw her out as a joke, seeing as how he's such close friends with Allyson Hannigan.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:41 pm
by Adam Balm
Now I'm curious as to what the next cool project he's talking about is going to be...

I mean, if JJ's really off Trek then the timing is a bit, well...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:42 pm
by Ribbons
I hear Sam Raimi's been telling all of his friends that he's interested in pursuing Wonder Woman...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:44 pm
by RogueScribner
I'd be up for Whedon Trek!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:45 pm
by Adam Balm
Ribbons wrote:I hear Sam Raimi's been telling all of his friends that he's interested in pursuing Wonder Woman...


AHAHAHAA!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:51 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
So this is goodbye to Rachel Bilson as Wonder Woman too then?!

Goodbye Rachel. I will miss you.

Image

No, no, I won't cry as she leaves, gotta be a man for herhuhuhuhuhboohoohoo!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:53 pm
by MasterWhedon
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Image

She got a purdy mouf.....

* drools *

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:56 pm
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
I'm just gonna lay down and go to sleep in that picture when I die.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:52 pm
by Adam Balm
Latino Review has a review of the newly bought Whedon-less spec script that made news two days before his departure was announced:

tp://latinoreview.com/scriptreview.php?id=48