Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate Miami Vice?

10
1
4%
9
4
16%
8
4
16%
7
5
20%
6
2
8%
5
2
8%
4
3
12%
3
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
1
1
4%
I'm waiting for TV / DVD
2
8%
No Don Johnson?! No pet alligator?! Socks?! No way!
1
4%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby tapehead on Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:45 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Tapehead, I was very impressed with the camerwork, mostly for the reasons Havoc listed.

It seems Mann's not interested in making the "prettiest" films anymore, but he's definitely making some of the most immersive films. The grainy, occasionally video-ish look might not be my preferred style, but it works damn well here. It feels immediate, feels THERE.

For this type of film, I can't think of a higher compliment.


as a HD video nerd, it's music to my ears
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Postby havocSchultz on Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:42 am

MasterWhedon wrote:Tapehead, I was very impressed with the camerwork, mostly for the reasons Havoc listed.

It seems Mann's not interested in making the "prettiest" films anymore, but he's definitely making some of the most immersive films. The grainy, occasionally video-ish look might not be my preferred style, but it works damn well here. It feels immediate, feels THERE.

For this type of film, I can't think of a higher compliment.


Cool - ya - sounds about right...

And I really enjoyed the whole "dichotomy" of the new digital era when you compare Mann's use of the Viper Camera - and Singer's use of the Genesis camera for Superman...

Same "technology" for the most part - but two completely and utterly looking films.

Also - I think I also kinda realized why I gave the film a 7 - I was talking with my film partner earlier - he went and saw it on Friday as well (but not with me...bastard) and his exact words regarding the film:

I think it would be a great film...if it wasn't called Miami Vice...


Which I understand -and it makes some sense.

He loved the film - he thought it was real cool and well done and he is a big Mann fan - but he doesn't do as much "behind the scenes" "research" as someone like a Zoner does - so he wasn't fully aware that it was nothing at all like the show...

So that's when I got thinking - I bet Mann had the basic idea and what-not for this film already in his head - a cool - dark - gritty cop thriller.

Then - word gets around that some peeps wanna adapt Miami Vice into a film - Mann gets approached cause he's respected and he's got history with the show - it seems like a good fit - a good way to get more money and freedom from the studio - as well as publicity - but you still pretty much make the original film you wanted to make.

This would've been an equally good stand-alone film - without some TV show name recognition - which - I think ultimately might hurt the film - cause there are alot of people out there who are expecting what - for the most part - most of us expected that we'd get from a "Miami Vice" film...

And as much as I knew that this was nothing like the show - and as much as I didn't really care if there were no real aspects of the show in there - I still think - sub-consciously - due to that fact - I walked out with a bit of a feeling that something was lacking.

Now maybe I'll just be labelled and apologist - but I'm not saying that's the only thing that was wrong with the film - I just think that for better or for worse - it will affect it.

The film is not great and amazing - it has some great and amazing moments - it is fun (in a dark and serious kinda way) and it's an Aryan Brotherhood Member's Boot to your Jaw type film -

But I give Mann props for doing it his way (except for the afore mentioned minor quibble about something about a character near something about the end) and putting out one of the more original summer "blockbusters" in awhile (blockbuster - for the fact that this film cost about $135 Million...which is one thing I don't get...digital is cheaper isn't it...colin farrell's 'stache riding hookers are cheaper in the digital age now too aren't they...) and, it's arguably the most original and most creative TV Show-to-Films ever made...

And I initially forgot to mention another thing I thouroughly enjoyed - Mann has a great touch for the small moments...

Most notably - when Gong Li notices Crockett on the "cop radio" at the end - and then sees his badge - her reaction - her rushing up to him and "attacking him" amidst a gunfight...and then Crockett's ensuing "rescue" of her...also - Gong Li's teary-eyed "climax" after she fucks Crockett for the 1st time was just beautiful...actually - the more I think about it - the more I think I am completely in love with Gong Li's performance in this film...
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:46 am

I finally saw it tonight, and really enjoyed it. 7+.

SPOILERS

RS, I could not disagree with you more, I think the graininess of the night and other shots was intentional, giving the film a gritty feel. Given how the television show was known for its "gloss", this was an interesting choice. I also liked the realistic "cops cam" feel in a number of the shots. Very immersive, at least for me. Then you have the panoramic sky/water shots that I expected, which were beautiful.

The problem with seeing a movie after everyone else is you start repeating stuff others have said when you finally see it. You do get thrown in mid-stream, but the open really doesn't matter in the least. The action begins with the call. The open sets the tone, the atmosphere, a little bit of character building (Tubbs going after the girl in trouble, Crockett having Tubbs' back in the club), etc., but it's not about the plot at that point.

Actually, I loved the part in the open where Tubbs is about to be hit from behind and Crockett takes the guy's legs out. Developing the partnership and the trust. I wish it had all been that understated, Tubbs' line: "I will always trust you" or something to that effect was a little over the top.

Speaking of over the top, all the cop-lingo, abbreviations, etc. I'm certain it's realistic, but it didn't sound natural coming out of Fox's and Farrell's mouths.

I LOVED Li Gong. Beautiful, so much emotion, strong and sensitive at the same time. Very nice. I really like Barry Henley as Castillo as well. Strong and understated just like Olmos' Castillo in the show. He spoke seldomly, but when he did everyone else shut the fuck up. Trudy was fine, and the rest had nothing to do. I don't think Switek ever had his name actually said out loud. In fact, I don't remember anyone ever actually saying "Crockett" or "Tubbs". They were esentially undercover the whole time so it was mostly Burnett and Cooper. I could be wrong about that.

I'm glad people aren't bitching about how unresolved they left things. They made progress toward the leak, but it wasn't fully resolved. Montoya got away. This is SO Miami Vice. One thing I really liked about the show is that they didn't always wrap everything up in a neat little bow. Often Crockett and Tubbs would get the middleman but miss the Big Bad.

Anyone else old enough to remember that Trudy kidnapped and tied to a chair in a trailer with a bomb strapped to her was an homage to an episode of the show? Different result in the movie, though.

Fun flick. Really enjoyed it.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:42 pm

I really liked this.

Mann creates his own unique blend of cinema, one that combines verite techniques with over the top ludicrousness, existential angst and male bonding. I mean, this is a silly, empty film, but yet Mann is able to marry the sheer preposterousness of a glitzy world of fast cars, boats, planes with tender emotions and heartfelt sentiments.

And it fucking helps the dude is just a plain master with the camera. I can't wait to watch it again to figure out just how he mangaged to clearly show spatial relations while using only medium to tight close-ups during the bravuro opening near-sting. It had me right from then, and while the pacing slowed down with the Gong Li / mullet boy Farrell romance, well, seeing the ethereal beauty of Gong on the big screen more than made up for it. You can put a filter of shit over the lens and her beauty would still shine through.

Too many stunning shots to mention, but special props for the scene shot from inside the automobile, limbs flying about in pure carnage. Viscerally shooting splattering viscera. Respect also for the final shoot out, which shows off Mann's clinical eye w/r/t action scenes. Snipers, flanking manuevers, all shot so one can distinctly follow the action. And man oh man, did Dion Beebe shoot the fuck out of this thing or what? Jawdropping images of nature, be it trees, sunsets, the ocean, clouds.

Only thing I couldn't stomach was the obnoxious use of shite music, specially those Audioslave tracks. NO WORDS WERE NECESSARY, the images are, enough thank you. Though I gotta admit, the second song to play in the club during the opening was pretty hot.
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Postby Ribbons on Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:45 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:Only thing I couldn't stomach was the obnoxious use of shite music, specially those Audioslave tracks.


I guess Mann's a fan of Audioslave. If I remember correctly, there were two Audioslave songs in the theatrical cut of Collateral too.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:47 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Keepcoolbutcare wrote:Only thing I couldn't stomach was the obnoxious use of shite music, specially those Audioslave tracks.


I guess Mann's a fan of Audioslave. If I remember correctly, there were two Audioslave songs in the theatrical cut of Collateral too.


I know. What label are they on? The movie was put out by Universal, so I assumed they might be on that, but I thought Rage was Sony.

And I checked the tracks on the soundtrack, no Audioslave to be found.
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Postby Ribbons on Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:50 pm

Yeah. Just did a Google check and Audioslave's on Sony too.

Plus Collateral was DreamWorks, I think, although who knows what other studios were involved.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:03 pm

Who else loved that boom headshot?

That one made me jump.
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Postby Vicarious on Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:38 pm

Ribbons wrote:Yeah. Just did a Google check and Audioslave's on Sony too.

Plus Collateral was DreamWorks, I think, although who knows what other studios were involved.


Michael Mann is a HUGE Chris Cornell fan. Collateral had one Audioslave song (Shadow on the Sun) and Miami Vice featured 2 off their forthcoming album (The Shape of Things to Come {2 segments of the song} and Wide Awake). The record labels really had nothing to do with it, all Mann's doing.
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Postby tylerfulltilt on Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:56 am

I feel compelled to break this movie down into percentages. Miami Vice is thusly:

15% bad sound
15% boring setup
70% incredible action

you see, at it's heart, Miami Vice is a Michael Mann action film. And as such, any and all previous greivances you have with the film are forgotten once the shit hits the fan and the bullets start flying. Mann is able to put you in the moment with his gunfights in ways that other action directors could only dream of. He has an ability to elicit such raw adrenaline that at moments when characters are scrambling for cover, you hold your breath in anticipation. He has the talent to take ages old action cliches and give them a raw visceral power that forces you to care about the outcome beyond a passing interest in see explosions and gore. He can take all the heart and humanity that many complain is missing from action movies, and put it in his films in such copious amounts that he leaves no doubt that headshots, blood, and death, can be and in fact, are, art of a high nature.

And then there's the way the film looks. Fucking gorgeous. I'm a sucker for great night photography. and Mann delivers night shots of freeways, palmtrees, dance clubs, runways and skylines. each frame of this film is filled with light struggling to escape the blackness around it. and Mann's choice to shoot the film in HD and transfer to film (a technique he first used in "Collateral") gives the movie a griminess, a grit, that belies the hell that Crockett and Tubbs have gotten themselves into.

Oh yeah, Crockett and Tubbs. Foxx and Farrell. I remember when the trailer for this film first appeared there was alot of grumbling that these guys looked like they just phoned in their performances. People complained that they looked and acted like they didn't even wanna be there. What's actually happening here is that Foxx and Farell are playing their roles right to fucking hilt. If they look and act like they don't want to be there, it's because Crockett and Tubbs don't want to be there. These are guys who have been doing an incredibly stressful job for a long time. and they don't like it anymore. They've been going to work for years and getting the hell beat out of them emotionally and physically. and when they have the plot of the movie forced upon them, they feel the full weight of their jobs on their shoulders at all times. they walk with slouched shoulders, they talk in hushed tones. they've had enough and they just want the shit to stop. and indeed their comes a point in the film where they are given the choice to stop the undercover operation, but they've realized what's at stake and continue on even though everyone (including themselves) don't want to.

Ok so all of the above was the 70%.

I said this movie was 15% bad sound. I don't if i should blame the movie or the theater but for the first 40 minutes of the film everything is way to quiet. You really cannot hear anything without straining and you have to really perk your ears up to catch what's being said. Which is a shame given how Mann's films are usually shining examples of technical perfection.

the other 15% of the movie was boring setup. And boring it is. The problem with the first 40 minutes is that we all know where it's going. We know exactly what's gonna happen before it does that you just kind of sit there tapping your watch, going " ok. ok. ok. get on with it". and indeed until Crockett meets his love interest the film appears to be followin, lockstep, with every other undercover cop movie ever made. But, like i said, the good guys and the bad guys start slapping cartridges into assault rifles, the snipers take up position and all is forgiven.

9/10

go see it.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:01 am

MasterWhedon wrote:Who else loved that boom headshot?

That one made me jump.


ditto.

Vicarious wrote:
Ribbons wrote:Yeah. Just did a Google check and Audioslave's on Sony too.

Plus Collateral was DreamWorks, I think, although who knows what other studios were involved.


Michael Mann is a HUGE Chris Cornell fan. Collateral had one Audioslave song (Shadow on the Sun) and Miami Vice featured 2 off their forthcoming album (The Shape of Things to Come {2 segments of the song} and Wide Awake). The record labels really had nothing to do with it, all Mann's doing.


thanks for that.

nice review tyler, good stuff.
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Postby magicmonkey on Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:12 am

Just got done watching "Miami Vice". I love Michael Mann movies, it used to take me at least 2 viewings in order to appreciate his own form of genius. It seems the guy has access to the contempory soul, a soul blighted by style and surface, but still owning the will to justify itself.

He loves the same shit as Woo, that which differentiates and unites the criminal from the law man. The two sides of the same coin, he don't look at petty theft etc, he concentrates on the career criminal. In "Miami Vice" we see all the fetishism of the cars, the boats, the planes, and the sweet, sweet, guns in all their glorious detail. You know the things in our society to which we aspire to own, and wield for power. This is mixed with emotion, the human aspect devoid of poverty, the soul of the piece. His movies are like opera, whereas Woo's may be considered as ballet.

I find it amusing to consider that Mann just wanted to make Colin Farrell's hillbilly locks and mustache look cool and Jamie Fox's ridiculous looking beard. In that fact he seems to have suceeded, owing to no one else mentioning these details.

The film suceeded for me, it was quintessential Mann, where the landscapes and backgrounds add as much depth as the script and characterisation. Its kind of a modern fusion of everything orchestrated as a symbiotic whole. Ah, to live the high life.
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Postby John-Locke on Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:08 pm

I spent about 30 minutes writing a detailed review for this film only for my computer to crash when I hit Preview (I should have hit submit dammit!)

To sum up my feelings in one word

BADASS

I thought the film was pretty much flawless, loved each and every single frame of it, I was completly thrilled by the experience and I have no doubt that this is Manns best film and Farrells best performance.

The cinematography was georgeous, from vibrant colours which only added to the feeling of cool to understated muted colours at night which added to the feeling of gloom and forboding. The perspective shots from inside the various modes of transport were completely unique, making you feel like you were inside them for real (because they really were shot from inside instead of in a studio) The establishing shots of said vehicles were often a beauty to behold, the shots of planes/boats/cars against different lanscapes were all completely stunning.

The score was just plain brilliance, either helping to add to the tension or the overall coolness of the picture, the music was mostly great too.

The action, violence and brutality of the film gave me wood, I just loved it.

All the actors were convincing and I cared about all of the Vice team because Foxx & Farrell sold me to the fact that they did.

As I said I wrote a far longer review of the film and I lost it, I could go into much more detail as to why I loved this filmand gave it a 10 but others have already said these reasons (namely Voldemoo, Whedon & Havoc) and I am far too tired to reiterate it all again so I'll sum it up best I can...


BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
BADASS
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Postby RogueScribner on Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:47 am

Man, it's like I saw a different film completely. I wish I saw the movie you guys did!
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:07 am

I was bored as fuck the first time I watched this. But I watched it last night and HOLY McFUCK it's bloody genius. It's a tone poem buddy cop action movie. To go off on a little rant here for a moment, most of us are far too concerned with plot, character's psychological "realism", a hero's story and in some (sad)cases we're also wedded to a 3-act structure :wink: . But while these things are important and make amazing films like The Godfather or Casablanca or Star Wars; they are not essential AT ALL to make a truly amazing film. Just as important are attitude, framing, experimenting with the fluidity of time through editing, mood, existentialist themes, choosing new tools to work from, creating moments of elemental beauty etc etc etc. Miami Vice hits every single one of these marks right in the medulla oblongata. 9/10
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby so sorry on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:06 am

TonyWilson wrote:I was bored as fuck the first time I watched this. But I watched it last night and HOLY McFUCK it's bloody genius. It's a tone poem buddy cop action movie. To go off on a little rant here for a moment, most of us are far too concerned with plot, character's psychological "realism", a hero's story and in some (sad)cases we're also wedded to a 3-act structure :wink: . But while these things are important and make amazing films like The Godfather or Casablanca or Star Wars; they are not essential AT ALL to make a truly amazing film. Just as important are attitude, framing, experimenting with the fluidity of time through editing, mood, existentialist themes, choosing new tools to work from, creating moments of elemental beauty etc etc etc. Miami Vice hits every single one of these marks right in the medulla oblongata. 9/10



Wow, from 'bored as fuck' to 'genius'? That's quite a swing in judgement! I know I saw Miami Vice, but I can't honestly remember one singe scene of it.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:31 am

I think it's partially cus I saw it on a laptop first time but yesterday was a Blu Ray disc on a 40" screen with surround sound.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby John-Locke on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:47 am

Partially?

:lol:
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:53 am

Hehe, yeah that's a good point. You're right mate, badass. Badass.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:00 am

I loved the movie. Everything you complimented I noticed the first time... so nyah!
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby Spandau Belly on Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:42 pm

I also loved this movie since the first time I saw it.

I'm glad to hear more and more people coming around on this one. The hate this thing got upon its initial release was absurd.

Maybe I can start having hope they'll do a sequel. But I won't get those hopes too high.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby travis-dane on Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:35 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:I also loved this movie since the first time I saw it.

I'm glad to hear more and more people coming around on this one. The hate this thing got upon its initial release was absurd.

Maybe I can start having hope they'll do a sequel. But I won't get those hopes too high.


A movie that deserves a sequel, I wanna see the downfall of Archangel de Jesus Montoya! (that has to be one of the best bad guy names in movie history)
I think the last time I went nuts seeing a bad guy gettin shot was right there when Tubbs creamed Jose Yero with that Big fucking gun. The fucker deserved it. I cheered. good shit...
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:24 pm

I think this would have done better if Colin Farrell hadn't been cast as Sonny. To me everything else about the movie was sparkly and sultry, but his performance was just this side of dull (and I don't mean boring... I mean he seemed like a dullard.) As much as people like to slame Matthew McCaugh (I give up spelling his name), he would have made a much better Sonny and it would have taken him out of crappy rom-com-land.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby John-Locke on Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:26 pm

Really? I couldn't imagine anyone else in that role. He was so intensely brooding and serious yet broken/fragile and brilliantly conveyed the characters need to connect with anyone, I honestly think he was excellent and had real believable sexual chemistry with Gong Li, the likes of which I hadn't seen since Clooney & Lopez smoked up the screen in Out of Sight and I can't think of anything that has come close since either.

Matt McConnaghey wouldn't have brought the weight I think the role requires, I like him a lot and he still has A list star potential but I don't think he's ever going to be considered as a serious actor yet by comparison Farrell is a serious actor who also happens to be an A list star.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:15 pm

Look I like Farrel in a few things (see my undying worshipful love of In Bruges for detailes), but the dude takes a pass on movies and "acts with eyebrows" a lot of the time. He just doesn't work for me, probably, 90% of the time. He wasn't at all bad in Miami Vice. And I agree about his chemistry with Gong Li... their scenes in Cuba are particularly poignant, but Foxx's Tubbs was full of energy and intensity, and Farrel just brought the mope out. He was emo-Sonny.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby Ribbons on Sat May 23, 2015 2:43 pm

This movie didn't do anything for me.

There are a few movies of Mann's that I really like, and I can't really say that they're any more substantial or meaningful than this one, but some combination of character, actor, story, or something just hits me in the solar plexus. This is as well-made as most of Mann's films but, like I said, it left me cold. It's almost like a gigantic episode of "Miami Vice," with a little more grit and a bigger canvas (a lot of time is spent going back and forth from Cuba), but I think maybe whatever zeitgeist the show tapped into in the '80s has come and gone. Back then the War on Drugs was a big deal and Miami was at the center of it all. While I'm sure there's still a healthy drug trade down there, talking about it doesn't feel necessary. And now that a political partnership with Cuba is just around the corner, I have a feeling the story will soon feel even more dated than it already did. If anything I would rather this were a period piece. Or maybe I would rather re-watch Cocaine Cowboys.
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby TheButcher on Tue May 26, 2015 10:59 pm

Ribbons wrote:This movie didn't do anything for me.

There are a few movies of Mann's that I really like, and I can't really say that they're any more substantial or meaningful than this one, but some combination of character, actor, story, or something just hits me in the solar plexus. This is as well-made as most of Mann's films but, like I said, it left me cold. It's almost like a gigantic episode of "Miami Vice," with a little more grit and a bigger canvas (a lot of time is spent going back and forth from Cuba), but I think maybe whatever zeitgeist the show tapped into in the '80s has come and gone. Back then the War on Drugs was a big deal and Miami was at the center of it all. While I'm sure there's still a healthy drug trade down there, talking about it doesn't feel necessary. And now that a political partnership with Cuba is just around the corner, I have a feeling the story will soon feel even more dated than it already did. If anything I would rather this were a period piece. Or maybe I would rather re-watch Cocaine Cowboys.

or god forbid Scarface
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Re: Miami Vice: Kneel Before Mann!!! (SPOILERS)

Postby Ribbons on Wed May 27, 2015 1:21 am

Oh, especially Scarface
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Re:

Postby TheButcher on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:43 am

MasterWhedon wrote:It seems Mann's not interested in making the "prettiest" films anymore, but he's definitely making some of the most immersive films. The grainy, occasionally video-ish look might not be my preferred style, but it works damn well here. It feels immediate, feels THERE.

DEADLINE:
Michael Mann On Muhammad Ali, Will Smith & His New Cut Of ‘Ali’
Mike Fleming Jr wrote:DEADLINE: What made you go back in and change the film, 15 years later?

MICHAEL MANN: With the hindsight of history, I felt the drama didn’t get all the way there. It wasn’t as strong as it should have been. I don’t think I changed anything on a movie like Heat [rereleased in 2015 after 20 years], but here, the proportion and how it made you feel, wasn’t quite right. I always knew how I wanted you to feel but I wasn’t sure that you were actually getting it. And then it occurred to me, what to do to make it be there.
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