The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

Postby Brit Pop on Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:25 am

True Mr Chairman... only as log as Ethel Murman sings to the beats!
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:25 am

ZZS is right on the nose. The Jedi had become complacent over the years thus training a Jedi would not necessarily take years but it was their prefered modus operandi.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:28 am

Brit Pop wrote:True Mr Chairman... only as log as Ethel Murman sings to the beats!

God I love that movie.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:33 am

Exactly right Zombie. TPM was a waste of time apart from introducing Anakin and a few other things. Even SW2 doesn't get going until the end. Why botehr showing us how the Clone Wars got started rather than the actual war itself?
You have gotta be the most stupid person on earth to do this.

George must have been off his rocker.

Then with the wars ending in SW3, we could have gotten down to a larger exploration of the Apocalypse of the Jedi.

Done this way 2 and 3, and even an alternative Part 1, could have been true sci fi classics. It's all there in front of you, the ingredients for them, Clone Wars, Anakin's turn to Hell, an innonocent but relevant start to the whole trilogy in 1, Jedi Apocalypse Now or Armageddon etcetera etcetera!!!

How could you fuck up!??!!?

I swear, whenever I complain about this, it really makes me wanna sit down and rewrite the films myself.

Zombie Solutions, surely your Zombie powers can solve this?
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:40 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Exactly right Zombie. TPM was a waste of time apart from introducing Anakin and a few other things. Even SW2 doesn't get going until the end. Why botehr showing us how the Clone Wars got started rather than the actual war itself?
You have gotta be the most stupid person on earth to do this.

George must have been off his rocker.

Then with the wars ending in SW3, we could have gotten down to a larger exploration of the Apocalypse of the Jedi.

Done this way 2 and 3, and even an alternative Part 1, could have been true sci fi classics. It's all there in front of you, the ingredients for them, Clone Wars, Anakin's turn to Hell, an innonocent but relevant start to the whole trilogy in 1, Jedi Apocalypse Now or Armageddon etcetera etcetera!!!

How could you fuck up!??!!?

I swear, whenever I complain about this, it really makes me wanna sit down and rewrite the films myself.

Zombie Solutions, surely your Zombie powers can solve this?


I sent my Zombie armies to the ranch, but the Clone Troopers wiped them out!!! GEORGE LUCAS, YOU UNEVENLY BRILLIANT FUCK UP GENTLEMAN!!!

Thanks for ROTS, though, George... YOU GENTLEMAN!!!

(Kirk, I totally know what you mean about re-writing the PT. I must've gone over it in my head a million times.)
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Postby austenandrews on Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:26 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:I think the deal is that Luke's training is much less than optimal, but enough to get by. Remember, Yoda and Obi Wan told him not to go; he had to finish his training. When Luke goes to fight Vader in ESB he ain't even close to being ready. He's a 22 year olde padawan and hes about to get a metaphorical fruedian castration by Big Bad Dad.

Exactly. And something else to ponder is, what changed between Luke & Vader's duel in ESB and their duel in ROTJ? Luke didn't get any more training, yet he's ten times the fighter he was on Bespin even before he goes all Dark Side. Heck, compare Luke's entry into Cloud City with his handling of Jabba's goons. Talk about night and day. What happened?

What happened is that Vader demonstrated what Yoda had already told him, that control is supremely important. He forced Luke to forget his cockiness and really focus on the training he received. (It's the same lesson Dooku teaches Anakin in AOTC.) Presumably Luke is a Force stud with at least as much raw potential as Anakin (remember Yoda's surprise when he almost lifted the X-Wing out of the water), so once he slowed down and started to understand his powers, his abilities exploded.

But something subtler changed as well. In ESB, Luke is driven by his hatred of Vader. When he learns Vader is his father, he loses his hate. That's the lesson Yoda and Obi-Wan were trying to teach him. The Luke who surrenders to Vader is calm and determined, and thus almost a match for Vader's stalling maneuvers already. At this point he's really tapped into his powers. So when he goes Dark Side on Vader, he's more akin to Anakin in ROTS "using" his hate, as opposed to the undisciplined hatred of ESB/AOTC.

And that's not to mention the change in Vader. By ROTJ he doesn't see Luke as clay to be molded but as a man to be respected. Like any father, he wants Luke to have a future. He figures the Emperor is the only one who can provide that. Given what the Emperor says during the final showdown, it's clear that Vader knows he is sacrificing himself for his son. That's why I don't think he ever had any intention of killing Luke, or even of winning the duel.

All of that adds up to Luke beating Vader despite his "feeble skills."
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Postby RogueScribner on Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:16 pm

austenandrews nails it.
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Postby Peven on Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:47 pm

thats a whole lotta reading between the lines. i think this thread is a good example of people's CHOICE to really like something or not. if a movie clicks with someone, for whatever reason, they are more able to actively find ways to smooth out any rough spots, so as not to take away from that good feeling they get from said movie. if a movie does not click for someone, for whatever reason, they won't make the same effort to fill in the blanks or read between the lines.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:18 pm

I don't think Star Wars involves a great deal of "reading between the lines" atleast all of the above seemed obvious to me while watching each of the prequels. The only thing I can remember I read too much into was wondering after AotC if Dooku was really "bad".
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Postby Peven on Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:25 pm

austenandrews wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:I think the deal is that Luke's training is much less than optimal, but enough to get by. Remember, Yoda and Obi Wan told him not to go; he had to finish his training. When Luke goes to fight Vader in ESB he ain't even close to being ready. He's a 22 year olde padawan and hes about to get a metaphorical fruedian castration by Big Bad Dad.

Exactly. And something else to ponder is, what changed between Luke & Vader's duel in ESB and their duel in ROTJ? Luke didn't get any more training, yet he's ten times the fighter he was on Bespin even before he goes all Dark Side. Heck, compare Luke's entry into Cloud City with his handling of Jabba's goons. Talk about night and day. What happened?

What happened is that Vader demonstrated what Yoda had already told him, that control is supremely important. He forced Luke to forget his cockiness and really focus on the training he received. (It's the same lesson Dooku teaches Anakin in AOTC.) Presumably Luke is a Force stud with at least as much raw potential as Anakin (remember Yoda's surprise when he almost lifted the X-Wing out of the water), so once he slowed down and started to understand his powers, his abilities exploded.

But something subtler changed as well. In ESB, Luke is driven by his hatred of Vader. When he learns Vader is his father, he loses his hate. That's the lesson Yoda and Obi-Wan were trying to teach him. The Luke who surrenders to Vader is calm and determined, and thus almost a match for Vader's stalling maneuvers already. At this point he's really tapped into his powers. So when he goes Dark Side on Vader, he's more akin to Anakin in ROTS "using" his hate, as opposed to the undisciplined hatred of ESB/AOTC.

And that's not to mention the change in Vader. By ROTJ he doesn't see Luke as clay to be molded but as a man to be respected. Like any father, he wants Luke to have a future. He figures the Emperor is the only one who can provide that. Given what the Emperor says during the final showdown, it's clear that Vader knows he is sacrificing himself for his son. That's why I don't think he ever had any intention of killing Luke, or even of winning the duel.

All of that adds up to Luke beating Vader despite his "feeble skills."


most of the above is "reading between the lines", supposition. stuff that is not actually layed out or stated in the movies.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:01 pm

I see you what you are saying. To me reading between the lines implies actively looking for subtext while the above has always seemed obvious to me....I just don't find the subtext in Star Wars to be "hidden"...
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Postby austenandrews on Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:08 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I see you what you are saying. To me reading between the lines implies actively looking for subtext while the above has always seemed obvious to me....I just don't find the subtext in Star Wars to be "hidden"...

Exactly. Granted my comments above come after twenty years of reflection, but I had the gist of it when I first saw the films. (The Vader stuff is what I filled in later.)
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Postby Peven on Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:18 pm

don't take it the wrong way either, its not like i'm criticizing at all. its just that i notice on here, the zone in general that is, if someone doesn't like a movie they'll pick out every little thing that is not clearly presented in the movie as evidence of why it was no good, poorly made, didn't make sense, etc., while those same people will then easily overlook some of the same types of "flaws" in movies they really like. make sense?

lets just say there is a movie with Ben Affleck, well, there are a lot of people that will be predisposed to dislike it and will go into it looking for any reason to knock it. meanwhile, if a movie comes out as part of a beloved franchise or starring an actor/actress that is a fav then people will go into it more predisposed to like it and look for ways to excuse anything that is missing or doesn't quite add up.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:36 pm

I can agree with that.
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Postby austenandrews on Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:57 pm

Peven wrote:don't take it the wrong way either, its not like i'm criticizing at all. its just that i notice on here, the zone in general that is, if someone doesn't like a movie they'll pick out every little thing that is not clearly presented in the movie as evidence of why it was no good, poorly made, didn't make sense, etc., while those same people will then easily overlook some of the same types of "flaws" in movies they really like. make sense?

lets just say there is a movie with Ben Affleck, well, there are a lot of people that will be predisposed to dislike it and will go into it looking for any reason to knock it. meanwhile, if a movie comes out as part of a beloved franchise or starring an actor/actress that is a fav then people will go into it more predisposed to like it and look for ways to excuse anything that is missing or doesn't quite add up.

Agreed. In fairness, if you want to talk about what I consider to be plot holes and continuity errors in the OT, we could go that route, too. :)
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Postby StarWarsRedux on Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:26 pm

Any work of fiction, especially those of the considerable length and breadth of Star Wars, is bound to have some amount of plot-holes, simply because an author, or auteur in the case of cinema, can't possibly account for maintaining strict continuity one hundred percent of the time. It goes against the nature of creative production, and would severely limit a creator's drive to consistently generate new ideas. Invention and reinvention are essential parts of the artistic process, and if following those drives makes peripheral gaps, then that's just the way it has to be.

Even Da Vinci has his empty spaces. All the great, classical storytellers-- Homer, Virgil, Dante, etc.-- suffer plot-holes occasionally, and if Lucas does as well, that simply puts him in that same pedigree. Epic storytelling necessitates occasional absent-mindedness on the part of the storyteller. The fact that Lucas has been so relatively infrequently, and on rather inconsequential notes should be applauded. His work may not be perfect, but it's closer than many dare even attempt.

Anyway. All you need to fill in the gaps when confronting a plot-hole is a little imagination, and I'd hate to think that anybody here is bereft of that.
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Postby King Psyz on Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:26 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Brit Pop wrote:Its just a shame that George had to restrict himself to just three prequels - mainly because ANH whas called episode 4!!! But it would have been cool if he had stretched ROTS over two films... There was just too much all crammed into it unfortunately - we and he needed more time - its like Bilbo said "I feel like butter scraped over too much bread"


I love ROTS with a passion, but I agree.

The prequels should have started around AOTC time, the third act being all about the Clone Wars;

Episode 2 would be like the Clone Wars Cartoon and some of ROTS, culiminating in Anakin turning to the darkside and becoming Vaderkin, but not being Vader-In-Suit yet;

Episode 3 would be largely about Vader hunting down the Jedi; Jedi on the run doing their whole Fall of the Tokugawa Shoganate / Seven Samuraii / Yojimbo thang; culminating in Vaderkin killing Padme, Obi Wan beating Vaderkin (now a crispy critter), Vaderkin becoming Vader-In-Suit, ObiWan and Yoda hiding the kids and going into hiding themselves...

that being said, I couldn't be happier with ROTS. i am seriously, totally crazy in love with this film. i'd put it on par with ESB easily.


I know what you mean...

King Psyz wrote:All of you brought up some valid points. My stand on the whole damned mess is this;

Start with ATOC, Darth Maul replaces Count Dooku, and we get the Clone Wars in full gear in the second film (basicly the cartoon series) which would validate the existence of Gen Grievous and we'd get that bad assed pale Jedi hunter from the cartoon too.

Also, Anakin being introduced at a "luke" age as a brash pilot would be much better suited to his mythos. Obi Wan watches him defend himself during an engagement and senses there might be more to him, Yoda says too odl yada yada bad ass jedi does he become. None of this chosen one crap.

I think Ewan nailed Obi Wan and I have no problem telling anyone who asks that he was one of the few redeeming factors to me of the whole damn mess.

I would have liked to see the third film as "The Purge" where you have a real revenge of the Sith as we end the second film with the lava battle and Anakin put in the suit. Third film starts with the Jedi running scared and Obi Wan and Yoda hiding Padme and trying to get her recovered from a full on force choke. She doesn't die as a result of her injuries and the strain of a twin childbirth, not lack of trying. Instead she lives and Yoda and Padme decide to split the kids up in case either one is found (Obi wan is left to belive that Luke was the only child born, hence his suprise at yoda's revelation in ESB) Darth feels a tremor in the force and realises he's a father, but he's still young and can't distinguish that it's actually twins. Bail Organa has a crush on Padme and invites her to take refuge with him and help him start a proper resistance. Also helping to hide Leia from Darth and the Jedi way of life, and giving weight to Leia recalling their mother in ROTJ.

Darth goes full on into Jedi slaying and Obi Wan hunting to kill the pain basiclly. The remnants of the different rebel factions that were villified in the prequels are now banded together by this tyranical rule and the remaining jedi and jedi loyalist bringing us the Rebels we came to know and love.

Boo-fuckin-yaa.
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Postby StarWarsRedux on Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:40 am

The Phantom Menace. Why?

Fuck you. That's why.

Seriously, though. I love that movie. I like all the prequels, but that one especially. I really like the stateliness of that film, it's Merchant/Ivory sense of pageantary, its cold, Kubrickian gaze, circa Paths of Glory and Dr. Strangelove. I love it for its visual compositions, its splendid cinematography, for its Kurosawa-esque Jedi action sequences and the symbolic and thematic cliffhangers throughout. I can't get enough of the politics-- honestly, I could sit through a whole movie of Star Wars C-SPAN. I love the planets and the people. I love all of the saga (except maybe for the slower, more redundant parts of ROTJ) but I believe I can safely say this one is the most fun on a basic level for me.

I honestly believe the whole of the PT is far more engaging and clever in its story than the OT, which by far has the more engaging and clever character work.

If I needed seconds and thirds, they'd both be from the PT. The OT would fall in the order of their releases. I like ESB, sure, but am really turned off by the absurd Kerschner hero worship that goes on almost everywhere. Yeah, he works with actors well, but it's obvious that Lucas didn't delegate any visual decisions to him. If anybody deserves praise for the cinematography of ESB, it's not the director of Robocop 2, Never Say Never Again, EYES of Laura Mars or various SeaQuest episodes-- instead, it's the cinematographer, Peter Suschitzky.

Honestly. I can't express enough of my frustration at how many people ignore him in lieu of playing gotcha with the Lucas vs. Kerschner escapades. Sure, I've contributed to it here, somewhat, but let's give a little love for Mr. Suschitzky, and remember that his elegance didn't just start with David Cronenberg.
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Postby Shane on Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:51 am

there is notmuch of a debate here. the poll shows. and almost anyone you talk to will answer that easily.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:23 am

ESB of course...

Two points.

Space travel in SW is never fully explained thus how long it takes Han and crew to get to Cloud City could be a couple of weeks or longer thus there is no real way of knowing how long Luke was on Dagobah learning from Yoda of course it is nowhere near the years aluded to in the prequels. I think this still fits into Lucas overall faith/magic vs science/technology arc though.

As for what order to watch the films in I think they should be watched in chronological order rather than serial order.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:06 pm

Star Wars: A New Hope. That is all
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Postby StarWarsRedux on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:29 pm

Hard to argue with logic like that.

I'll admit, ANH does have the best gunfights and dogfights.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:09 pm

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!

handlink wrote:I’ve been sick and tired of the various Star Wars Prequels bashing and George Lucas bashing that has followed it in recent years. I LOVE all 6 films, especially when you think about them together as parts of one EPIC story. The Prequels actually make the Original Trilogy (OT) even better to me; (no, not because they’re so bad), but because they introduce details and themes which heighten the OT experience. I’ve had countless debates with many OT fans who hate the prequels about their quality, and I’m not going to waste another breath on the issue. If I was to pick favorites, I’d have to say that I love the OT overall more than I do the Prequels, but the prequels are a great part of the entire saga, and certainly fit in with the rest of the Star Wars universe. Since there are so many people who can only muster up negative things to say about the Prequels, I’ve decided to make a list of positive things from the Star Wars prequels that I believe match, and in some cases, even surpass elements of the OT. It’s almost as if the Prequel bashers don’t even want to acknowledge that anything good came from them. And anything that they DO like about the movies they give no credit to Lucas for. Well, here’s just a few of the many things I like about them, many of which you’d think most Star Wars fans would also like, and be thankful for the existence of the prequels so that we can all enjoy them.

No particular order, and without further explanation.

• Qui-Gon Jinn
• Ewan’s Obi-Wan
• General Grievous
• Darth Maul
• Jango Fett
• Jedi vs. Battle Droid Arena fight
• Clone War battle on Geonosis
• Yoda fighting
• Episode III Opening Space Battle
• Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett fight on Kamino platform
• Kamino
• Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Maul
• Watto and Dex
• The variety of Clonetroopers
• Mustafar fight between Obi-Wan and Vader
• Palpatine’s story of Darth Plagueis
• John Williams music, such as ‘Duel of the Fates’, ‘Across the Stars’, and ‘Battle of the Heroes’

Just to name a few. I could go on and on, but I shouldn’t have to. And one final word for all those Prequel lovers hiding in the closet: Don’t hide. Exclaim your love for the prequels with pride. There’s much to like there.

Any thoughts?
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Postby buster00 on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:13 pm

Yeah, two words. Jar and Jar.
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:23 pm

buster00 wrote:Yeah, two words. Jar and Jar.


That's three words.


:P
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Parting thoughts to all the SW PREQUEL BASHERS

Postby handlink on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:24 pm

I’ve been sick and tired of the various Star Wars Prequels bashing and George Lucas bashing that has followed it in recent years. I LOVE all 6 films, especially when you think about them together as parts of one EPIC story. The Prequels actually make the Original Trilogy (OT) even better to me; (no, not because they’re so bad), but because they introduce details and themes which heighten the OT experience. I’ve had countless debates with many OT fans who hate the prequels about their quality, and I’m not going to waste another breath on the issue. If I was to pick favorites, I’d have to say that I love the OT overall more than I do the Prequels, but the prequels are a great part of the entire saga, and certainly fit in with the rest of the Star Wars universe. Since there are so many people who can only muster up negative things to say about the Prequels, I’ve decided to make a list of positive things from the Star Wars prequels that I believe match, and in some cases, even surpass elements of the OT. It’s almost as if the Prequel bashers don’t even want to acknowledge that anything good came from them. And anything that they DO like about the movies they give no credit to Lucas for. Well, here’s just a few of the many things I like about them, many of which you’d think most Star Wars fans would also like, and be thankful for the existence of the prequels so that we can all enjoy them.

No particular order, and without further explanation.

• Qui-Gon Jinn
• Ewan’s Obi-Wan
• General Grievous
• Darth Maul
• Jango Fett
• Jedi vs. Battle Droid Arena fight
• Clone War battle on Geonosis
• Yoda fighting
• Episode III Opening Space Battle
• Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett fight on Kamino platform
• Kamino
• Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Maul
• Watto and Dex
• The variety of Clonetroopers
• Mustafar fight between Obi-Wan and Vader
• Palpatine’s story of Darth Plagueis
• John Williams music, such as ‘Duel of the Fates’, ‘Across the Stars’, and ‘Battle of the Heroes’

Just to name a few. I could go on and on, but I shouldn’t have to. And one final word for all those Prequel lovers hiding in the closet: Don’t hide. Exclaim your love for the prequels with pride. There’s much to like there.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:30 pm

I love the prequels despite their rather obvious faults, but I'll prefer the original trilogy to it every time for its greater mix of character, charm, humor, and overall adventure.

handlink, do you think any of the criticisms folks have of the prequels are justified?
Last edited by MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby thebostonlocksmith on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:31 pm

It's over, let go, it's time to move on. I didn't mind the first, didn't mind the third, and thought the second was chronic...

As stand alone movies they were ok, as part of the Star Wars series they were a cop out...
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Postby colonel_lugz on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:36 pm

As great a first post as that was; im gonna have to pick you up on a couple of points,

grevious shoould have been portrayed as he was in the Clone Wars cartoon, which was a total hardass badass that the jedi truly feared.

Watto should not have been SO jewish. Dex was not needed

And as for the begining space battle of ep 3....well, ill leave a certain man we call Kirk to explain the finer points of that

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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:44 pm

I fucking love Kirk's decimation of the Space battle, it's fucking excellent. I thought the same thing but he voices it so very very well.
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Postby thebostonlocksmith on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:47 pm

I think he just showed up, perhaps he'll bless us with a bit of a rant...
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:48 pm

I'd forgotten about Dex till you've mentioned him. It was a nice bit for his idiosyncracies, but surely Kenobi could've found that out himself. It was kinda like Frank Drebin going to see Jimmy the Shoeshine.
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Postby thebostonlocksmith on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:51 pm

Sorry for my ignorance but who's Dex??
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:53 pm

The problem I had with Dex wasn't so much his character or his fuction, but the fact that he was a completely unnecessary CG character. Like with a great deal of the stuff in the prequels, he seemed to exist only to show off ILM's new texture maps and skin designs. There's no reason his character couldn't have been a MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE, yet equally impressive guy in prosthetics--who, very probably, would've felt more real.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:58 pm

But then he wouldn't have benefitted from the breakthroughs in digitial eyelash rendering.
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Postby buster00 on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:59 pm

thebostonlocksmith wrote:Sorry for my ignorance but who's Dex??


Dex ran the diner where Obi Wan went for info about the dart that killed Zam Wessel in AOTC.


Mel Sharples In Spaaaacce!
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:59 pm

How many Star Wars threads ARE there?

Ack, I don't think I can be arsed to go into why the films outside of the original trilogy just weren't good movies. Simply put - overlong, flabby self-important bluster with a few good bits inbetween created by an ego with lots of money, an excellent design crew and no self control.

I will say this - Gary Kurtz's loss was felt after Empire. The two strongest films had him as producer, I think that says a lot...
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:04 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:How many Star Wars threads ARE there?


4 less than there were an hour ago...
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:08 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
AtomicHyperbole wrote:How many Star Wars threads ARE there?


4 less than there were an hour ago...

HAHAHAHAHA!!

Actually, I searched through, and while we do have a number of SW threads, they each have a specific, unique purpose. I prefer to keep discussions in larger, "catch-all" threads like this one, but the others have had worthy runs on their own topics so they'll stand.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:09 pm

You mean, like the 'How the Jedi would kill The X Men' thread?!

That should have been locked by me mate. We all know there is no discussion necessary to prove this.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:11 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:
AtomicHyperbole wrote:How many Star Wars threads ARE there?


4 less than there were an hour ago...

HAHAHAHAHA!!

Actually, I searched through, and while we do have a number of SW threads, they each have a specific, unique purpose. I prefer to keep discussions in larger, "catch-all" threads like this one, but the others have had worthy runs on their own topics so they'll stand.





handlink wrote:I’ve been sick and tired of the various Star Wars Prequels bashing and George Lucas bashing that has followed it in recent years. I LOVE all 6 films, especially when you think about them together as parts of one EPIC story. The Prequels actually make the Original Trilogy (OT) even better to me; (no, not because they’re so bad), but because they introduce details and themes which heighten the OT experience. I’ve had countless debates with many OT fans who hate the prequels about their quality, and I’m not going to waste another breath on the issue. If I was to pick favorites, I’d have to say that I love the OT overall more than I do the Prequels, but the prequels are a great part of the entire saga, and certainly fit in with the rest of the Star Wars universe. Since there are so many people who can only muster up negative things to say about the Prequels, I’ve decided to make a list of positive things from the Star Wars prequels that I believe match, and in some cases, even surpass elements of the OT. It’s almost as if the Prequel bashers don’t even want to acknowledge that anything good came from them. And anything that they DO like about the movies they give no credit to Lucas for. Well, here’s just a few of the many things I like about them, many of which you’d think most Star Wars fans would also like, and be thankful for the existence of the prequels so that we can all enjoy them.

No particular order, and without further explanation.

• Qui-Gon Jinn
• Ewan’s Obi-Wan
• General Grievous
• Darth Maul
• Jango Fett
• Jedi vs. Battle Droid Arena fight
• Clone War battle on Geonosis
• Yoda fighting
• Episode III Opening Space Battle
• Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett fight on Kamino platform
• Kamino
• Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Maul
• Watto and Dex
• The variety of Clonetroopers
• Mustafar fight between Obi-Wan and Vader
• Palpatine’s story of Darth Plagueis
• John Williams music, such as ‘Duel of the Fates’, ‘Across the Stars’, and ‘Battle of the Heroes’

Just to name a few. I could go on and on, but I shouldn’t have to. And one final word for all those Prequel lovers hiding in the closet: Don’t hide. Exclaim your love for the prequels with pride. There’s much to like there.


This deserves it's own thread...
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Postby MasterWhedon on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:15 pm

havocSchultz wrote:This deserves it's own thread...

* stretches, as it's been a while *









































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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZACKT!!
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:16 pm

The Jedi would never let you do that to them. I'm going over to lock that thread right now.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:18 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
This deserves it's own thread...


URGE TO KILL....STILL RISING!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:30 pm

For decades we've been waiting and drooling at the thought of how advancement in FX would give us a terrific massive all involving Space Battle, together with huge ships going at each other and loads of one man fighters zipping about the place like flies. Think ROTJ times 10. It's so obvious that a child could make it.

But by the looks of the ball dropping ROTS Space Battle, Lucas has really really grown up to be an old man. I'm not saying that to be literally poetic or clever. The space battles from the OT are so typical of him just having fun and letting rip with, playing with his toys, but the ROTS Space Battle, with it's tightness, no fighters hardly shooting anything, and mainly focusing on Buzz Droids but not much else, just shows a stuck up, killjoy, excitement killing, boring old man.

It's like he did that on purpose, just to piss us off.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:06 pm

I don't really find your ROTS space battle analysis worthwhile Kirk. The biggest, off the wall battle of the series should not appear in the third of six parts. Overshadowing the battle in ROTJ would have been a major misstep.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:48 pm

No it wouldn't. It happens where it is dictated by the unfolding of events and circumstances. Also it doesn't excuse Lucas chopping out all the good bits that he filmed of this battle and leaving you with the barest farking minumum of that fight. Come on, as soon as it starts, it ends.
Last edited by Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Peven on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:57 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't really find your ROTS space battle analysis worthwhile Kirk. The biggest, off the wall battle of the series should not appear in the third of six parts. Overshadowing the battle in ROTJ would have been a major misstep.


i don't know, Kaga. think about it. from the picture painted of the past during the OT, the period leading up to the Clone Wars was something of a golden age, the height of the Republic, while the fleet fighting the Empire at the end of ROTJ was all the rebellion had left, a rag tag mish mash of ships, whatever the rebellion could scrape up for a last battle. so, Kirk's proposed space battle in ROTS actually makes some sense.
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Postby thebostonlocksmith on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:59 pm

Either way, i just like watching things blow up, especially if they look expensive...
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:04 am

Peven wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't really find your ROTS space battle analysis worthwhile Kirk. The biggest, off the wall battle of the series should not appear in the third of six parts. Overshadowing the battle in ROTJ would have been a major misstep.


i don't know, Kaga. think about it. from the picture painted of the past during the OT, the period leading up to the Clone Wars was something of a golden age, the height of the Republic, while the fleet fighting the Empire at the end of ROTJ was all the rebellion had left, a rag tag mish mash of ships, whatever the rebellion could scrape up for a last battle. so, Kirk's proposed space battle in ROTS actually makes some sense.

I was merely talking about from a storytelling point of view the ROTJ is supposed to be the climax of the 6 part story so thus the space battle should be the biggest. He already makes the lightsaber duel in ROTS overshadow any other lightsaber duel in the series in length and scope so making the space battle in the same film that much larger than ROTJ guts the climax of the series completely. Unless of course Kirk wants even more revisionism on Lucas' part to make the ROTJ space battle bigger :P .
I can understand wanting the last film chronologically made to have the most spectacular sequences but since Lucas wants the story to flow in the order of the episodes it makes more sense the way he showed it. Of course Lucas wanting people to watch the episodes in in that order rather than chronological order ruins other things like the big reveal in Empire.
Now as a counterpoint to the whole Rebellion mish mash.....
That's entirely true. The Rebellion was the David v. The Empire's Goliath but of course the ROTS space battle was nothing but a diversion created so Grievous could kidnap the Chancellor. If the battle was being waged for some larger reason, like trying to capture the only planet in the galaxy with some specific resource, then it would seem more justified to me to show more of the battle. If the entire Clone War hung in the balance then it would seem more like a win or lose at all costs situation instead of just a massive diversion.

PS> I had hoped my original post would generate a more irate response from Kirk.
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