The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

[DaleTremont]

IMO, had Lucas stuck with that formula and not been hellbent on re-inventing the wheel, the PT would have been better than the OT. The world was hanging on a thread for these movies to come out (Remember that Jake Lloyd poster where his shadow is Vader? That was fucking mass marketing GENIUS!). Instead, we got severely lackluster (but in your face, nonetheless) storytelling, more CGI than you could shake a stick at, and characters that not only did no one care about, but actually hated to the point that it's part was almost completely written out in the last 2 movies...

I definitely know what you're saying. And I feel weird even defending these movies. Honestly, after my 12-year-old self got over "Gee whizness!" of watching Phantom, I truly despised the last two prequels. I think I felt as uncomfortable as anyone watching the cornball hamfisted antics onscreen, but I also really do feel now, after watching them again, that there is a lot of merit in them that I didn't appreciate before. Sure there was a lot of CGI and it didn't look nearly as realistic as it does now (possible blue screen shadows lurking around characters' outlines and what not) but really it was a pretty impressive feat for the time. You could say that George overdid it, let his imagination and his ego run away with him, but once I got over the fact that the prequels were never going to serviceably set up the story we all love, I kind of started to dig the outlandishness of Phantom, Clones, and Sith (I'm declaring a moratorium on acronyms, damn it!)

I used to have a near stroke when my little cousins (who are HUGE star wars fans) told me they preferred the prequels to the originals, but you know what? I kind of respect it a little more. I mean, I still would tell them they have their heads up their asses if I wouldn't get a wicked side eye from my aunts and uncles, but I can see how the Star Wars universe, while somewhat (or entirely) distasteful for those of us who loved the originals first, still had something to love for the younger, stupider generation. And even for the stupid of the older generation, like me.

[Brit Pop]

The Red Letter Media guy is posting his AOTC review on Youtube in about 2 hours,

if its as funny and factual as the TPM one we're in for a treat!

And this one is around 90 minutes long apparently.

[Brit Pop]

The Red Letter Media guy is posting his AOTC review on Youtube in about 2 hours,

if its as funny and factual as the TPM one we're in for a treat!

And this one is around 90 minutes long apparently.

The review is on youtube.

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

The Red Letter Media guy is posting his AOTC review on Youtube in about 2 hours,

if its as funny and factual as the TPM one we're in for a treat!

And this one is around 90 minutes long apparently.

The review is on youtube.

Link much?

[Fried Gold]

The best parts:

Part 5

Part 8

Bart 9

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

Saw it. I thought it was pretty boring. Apart from the guy's annoying voice and those bits at the end of the clips with the kidnapped girl which I didn't even bother with in the end, this RedletterMedia reviewer picks apart all the little teeny weeny bits wrong with the film that ANY other film, no matter how great they may be, has going against it. Might as well pick holes in some near perfect film like The Godfather or something. The Amidala assasination attempt with the bugs. Come on! EVERY film has implausibilities like that in them as well, don't make them the worse film ever made.

What I thought was really irritating is that this reviewer neglected to criticise the main stand out big obvious flaws in the film that any kid in the street would come up with, only he'd do it with more depth and detail so that it would be more fresh and interesting and not too repetitive. There were SOME things he managed to persuade me of that were worth giving flack to, like how Yoda was unpleasingly demythed, but again at the same time, isn't that also one of the bonuses of these movies, that we get to see beyond the mystery of the Force and other things that were only suggested at by the original movies? So convincing criticisms that I expected an abundance of? No. Not for such a film easy to find such comments on.

He's right on about the CGI overkill, the failure of the love story, but there's tons more stuff to give shit to in SW2, but Red Letter seems to be struggling or reaching in order to find something to do so over.

[papalazeru]

Part 1

Fart 2

Bart 3

Dart 4

Thank you FG. It is now a Happy Easter.

[wonkabar]

Part 1

Fart 2

Bart 3

Dart 4

Not quite as funny as the TPM one IMO. And I agree with 2pay that there were some big things that he missed. But overall, a happy Easter indeed!

[Bayouwolf]

Watched the first half (4 episodes) this morning, and just wrapped up watching the last 5... I can't say I thought these were better than his review of TPM, but I think that's because when I saw those, he was a fresh voice with a new angle. Now I kinda expect what he cut's into scenes with, so it's not as new or exciting. Either way, I enjoyed the hell out of it.


Now...You could nit-pick apart the "flaws" of his review from a critics viewpoint. And truth be told, you'd have a fair argument that he tends to go completely overboard in his inability to accept things that every sci-fi/fantasy film does on some level or another....BUT...The guy is spot in in his criticism as a raving fan boy of the Star Wars universe.

Every point this guy brings up in regards to the continuity of the OT is on the level. He tears a new asshole into every stupid moment in that AotC that made no sense AT ALL and then lovingly explains why in the same way a painter would criticize his own work when compared to someone he feels is a better artist than himself. It's not that he didn't want to love the films...He really and truly did...They just were such a huge let-down that it feels like a betrayal of sorts. I mean, to go and fuck up something as simple as a Star Wars origin story split into 3 parts, you'd have to be the biggest moron in the universe...

Like I said before, had Lucas been less concerned about selling merchandise, stuck to simply being the creative mind behind these films, and left the actual DIRECTING to someone else, the PT would have been better than the OT. I would bet the moisture farm on it.

[wonkabar]

Actually, part 5 is pretty fucking hilarious

[Seppuku]

Saw it. I thought it was pretty boring. Apart from the guy's annoying voice and those bits at the end of the clips with the kidnapped girl which I didn't even bother with in the end, this RedletterMedia reviewer picks apart all the little teeny weeny bits wrong with the film that ANY other film, no matter how great they may be, has going against it. Might as well pick holes in some near perfect film like The Godfather or something. The Amidala assasination attempt with the bugs. Come on! EVERY film has implausibilities like that in them as well, don't make them the worse film ever made.

What I thought was really irritating is that this reviewer neglected to criticise the main stand out big obvious flaws in the film that any kid in the street would come up with, only he'd do it with more depth and detail so that it would be more fresh and interesting and not too repetitive. There were SOME things he managed to persuade me of that were worth giving flack to, like how Yoda was unpleasingly demythed, but again at the same time, isn't that also one of the bonuses of these movies, that we get to see beyond the mystery of the Force and other things that were only suggested at by the original movies? So convincing criticisms that I expected an abundance of? No. Not for such a film easy to find such comments on.

Kirks, you should definitely do a 12-part video picking apart this guy's review.

[Spandau Belly]

Even though I found the AOTC analysis funny, I agree with Kirks that it is more of the knitpicky variety than the broad general problems they found in Phantom Menace. RedLetter is right about how PM was just a big messy political thriller that made little sense and had no real characters that we could root for.

As for their critique of AOTC, like Kirks said, you can find this sort of stuff in every movie, and even though the reviewer keeps comparing the prequel trilogy unfavourably to the original trilogy, the original trilogy has oodles of stuff just like this that many people have brought up many times, but just in a more lovingly mocking way. Stuff like how Luke is hidden from Vader under his real last name in Vader's own homeplanet with a family relation and Obi-Wan Kenobi's alias is Old Ben Kenobi.

And I can accept the shallowness of the love story in AOTC. I don't think Amidala falling in love with Anakin because he's tempermental and ambitious and it's forbidden is any more undeveloped than Leia falling in love with Han Solo because he's a cocky badboy.

I also didn't need everything explained to death. I'm used to action fantasy stories having prophecies that everybody knows and talks about like they are common knowledge. I don't need to see the prophet deliver the prophecy and watch it gain credibility etc. I'm fine just jumping to a point in time where most people know and believe in a prophecy. And as for the origins of Sith, it could've gone either way. Maybe an explanation of where Siths come from would've been interesting or maybe not.

So yeah, overall AOTC at least has all the pieces in place. I had a small group of main characters and a story it wanted to tell with them. Maybe it didn't connect all the dots as well as it could've and it was definately a corny movie, but it was definately not down on the level of mess that PM was.

[Bayouwolf]

As for their critique of AOTC, like Kirks said, you can find this sort of stuff in every movie

I stopped reading here...

C'mon...It's STAR WARS ferfuxxake...The prequels practically wrote themselves.

Sure, there are holes in the OT. But like you said, it's in every movie. The difference is, the PT should had easy work plugging them.
The chick (in this case, the story for the PT) was already naked, laying on the bed with a tube of KY in her hand, porn on the tele, and a come hither look on her face...How is it even remotely possible NOT to score???
But somehow, Lucas ended up spending the evening playing video games in the living room instead.

For all the good the OT did to set the precedence of the SW universe, the PT prison raped it, and then didn't bother to talk to it the morning after.

[Brit Pop]

Lots of mixed opinions about the Red Letter Star Wars dissections.... I personally think they are very funny and very accurate - he doesn't plan to do this for the original trilogy, so he's probably just another person who grew up with the OT and felt slighted by the new ones enough to shout about it.

ps - if you like his Star Wars reviews, check out the Star Trek ones, every film from Generations to Nemesis, also very funny.

Red Letter has ruffled a few feathers - part 1 of the AOTC review has been removed by Youtube - after a complaint by Cartoon Network of all people!

[Spandau Belly]

C'mon...It's STAR WARS ferfuxxake...The prequels practically wrote themselves.

Sure, there are holes in the OT. But like you said, it's in every movie. The difference is, the PT should had easy work plugging them.
The chick (in this case, the story for the PT) was already naked, laying on the bed with a tube of KY in her hand, porn on the tele, and a come hither look on her face...How is it even remotely possible NOT to score???

Actually, I think it's pretty hard to take the expository moments of one film and bloat them out into a whole other film, let alone bloating a few expository remarks out into three whole movies and trying to make the villain the main character.

I can name lots of sequels I think are legitimately great movies, prequels, not so much. They've got a much harder road because they have to make the story interesting despite the conclusion being inevitable and in the front of the audience's mind.

It's been awhile since I've seen any of the Star Wars movies, so they're not that fresh in my mind, but even watching that RedLetter analysis, I wouldn't really say AOTC was as guilty of plot holes as it was characters just doing some stupid things to drive the story forward.

[Bayouwolf]

I wouldn't really say AOTC was as guilty of plot holes as it was characters just doing some stupid things to drive the story forward.

Completely agree. Same rings true with TPM. (I give the man a slight bit of credit for RotS, but that's just because we FINALLY get some Big Black Helmet action, but honestly, that should have happened in the beginning of the 3rd episode). We should have seen the empire forming up with Vader being the muscle and the Emperor being the brains. Instead we just get a 30 second tease of the construction of the Death Star (and for reals...that thing must have taken a year to get that far...You telling me NO ONE in the senate happened to notice?)

There truly was a lot of ground to be covered from the bits of back story we got from the OT... Instead Lucas focused on the most mundane aspects of it, and turned the biggest bits we should have seen into 30 second clips and clunky dialogue that my sister, who's NEVER watched Star Wars more than once in her life, could have done a better job with.

But take my opinion for what it is...A disenfranchised fan-boy.

I'm not the reviewer you were looking for. Move along.

[so sorry]

I've just decided that I could live without 5 of the 6 Star Wars movies and not bat an eyelash. Despite my love affair with the franchise in my youth (toys movies comics cereal cartoons whatever), I can honestly say that I never get the urge to watch these movies anymore, EXCEPT The Empire Strikes Back.

[Kornula]

Saw it. I thought it was pretty boring. Apart from the guy's annoying voice and those bits at the end of the clips with the kidnapped girl which I didn't even bother with in the end, this RedletterMedia reviewer picks apart all the little teeny weeny bits wrong with the film that ANY other film, no matter how great they may be, has going against it. Might as well pick holes in some near perfect film like The Godfather or something. The Amidala assasination attempt with the bugs. Come on! EVERY film has implausibilities like that in them as well, don't make them the worse film ever made.

What I thought was really irritating is that this reviewer neglected to criticise the main stand out big obvious flaws in the film that any kid in the street would come up with, only he'd do it with more depth and detail so that it would be more fresh and interesting and not too repetitive. There were SOME things he managed to persuade me of that were worth giving flack to, like how Yoda was unpleasingly demythed, but again at the same time, isn't that also one of the bonuses of these movies, that we get to see beyond the mystery of the Force and other things that were only suggested at by the original movies? So convincing criticisms that I expected an abundance of? No. Not for such a film easy to find such comments on.

He's right on about the CGI overkill, the failure of the love story, but there's tons more stuff to give shit to in SW2, but Red Letter seems to be struggling or reaching in order to find something to do so over.

Hmm.. I don't know which version of this review you saw; but this guy pointed out serious gaping flaws.. like CHARACTERS... and.. Story.. where are they? I loved how he even used the question posed on 4 people: Describe characters without using costumes, makeup or occupation. I think that was a huge gaping flaw in the prequels.. People in costumes and makup running around.

[ThankYouMisterEdison]

The Phantom Menace needed an epic lightsaber battle between Darth Maul and Qui-Gon Jin set atop a maze of boulder-clusters on the edge of a cliff on Tatooine instead of that choppy little sand duel we got. Throw in some disposable good and bad guys to make it better. Too bad George Lucas didn't have the creativity to think up such a scene. Imagine: Darth Maul doing front and back flips boulder to boulder and off of boulders while cutting down everyone in sight. Except for Qui-Gon, of course ( that comes later).

[magicmonkey]

The Phantom Menace needed an epic lightsaber battle between Darth Maul and Qui-Gon Jin set atop a maze of boulder-clusters on the edge of a cliff on Tatooine instead of that choppy little sand duel we got. Throw in some disposable good and bad guys to make it better. Too bad George Lucas didn't have the creativity to think up such a scene. Imagine: Darth Maul doing front and back flips boulder to boulder and off of boulders while cutting down everyone in sight. Except for Qui-Gon, of course ( that comes later).

With one of those GIANT SANDWORMS ala Tremors biting at their ankles!

[TheBaxter]

i think "bigger and better lightsaber duels", or the lack thereof, was the least of phantom menace's problems.

[Fievel]

How much better would the prequels have been if Anakin started out as old as Luke in Episode 4?
It could have been one more cute parallel Lucas could have drawn between the prequels and the OT.
Obi Wan could have started in the Prequels as a Jedi Master, and made his ancient age in A New Hope a little more plausible against the Prequel timeline.
Sigh.

[minstrel]

How much better would the prequels have been if Anakin started out as old as Luke in Episode 4?
It could have been one more cute parallel Lucas could have drawn between the prequels and the OT.
Obi Wan could have started in the Prequels as a Jedi Master, and made his ancient age in A New Hope a little more plausible against the Prequel timeline.
Sigh.

Then the prequels would have been the same movies as the OT, pretty much, only with an unhappy ending. But no Ewoks, so that would have been better.

[RogueScribner]

Moo posted a thread about rewriting movies or some such. The PT is ripe for the picking.

[TheBaxter]

Moo posted a thread about rewriting movies or some such. The PT is ripe for the picking.

i'm sure george lucas is already hard at work making the prequels even worse for the blu-ray special editions.

[Lord Voldemoo]

Moo posted a thread about rewriting movies or some such. The PT is ripe for the picking.

i'm sure george lucas is already hard at work making the prequels even worse for the blu-ray special editions.

It's here. I had some great ideas for the Anakin-Windu-Palpatine scene, but I'll be damned if I can remember what they were now.........it'll come back to me.

[RogueScribner]

I actually do want to purge my PT notions so I can stop dwelling on them. I may contribute to that thread.

[Al Shut]

Then the prequels would have been the same movies as the OT, pretty much, only with an unhappy ending. But no Ewoks, so that would have been better.

Ewoks are the reason the OT was better. You're dead to me, DEAD!, I tell ya.

[Al Shut]

I actually do want to purge my PT notions so I can stop dwelling on them. I may contribute to that thread.

Don't forget there's a strong public demand for more MAul

http://zone.aintitcool.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49485&hilit=Maul

Just look at the poll

[minstrel]

Then the prequels would have been the same movies as the OT, pretty much, only with an unhappy ending. But no Ewoks, so that would have been better.

Ewoks are the reason the OT was better. You're dead to me, DEAD!, I tell ya.

Don't get me wrong, Al. I'm all in favor of the GOOD Ewoks; it's the BAD Ewoks I don't like.

[darkjedijaina]

yub yub

[Fievel]

The prequel trilogy took place in purgatory.
They were already dead! ALREADY DEAD!!!

[BuckyO'harre]

[minstrel]

The prequel trilogy would have been better if James Earl Jones had done the voices for Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen. Because we all know what Anakin Skywalker is SUPPOSED to sound like.

And there should be a version of the OT available with Jake Lloyd dubbing Darth Vader's voice instead of James Earl Jones. That would remind the public of just how big a hit Star Wars could have been.

[TheBaxter]

The prequel trilogy would have been better if James Earl Jones had done the voices for Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen. Because we all know what Anakin Skywalker is SUPPOSED to sound like.

And there should be a version of the OT available with Jake Lloyd dubbing Darth Vader's voice instead of James Earl Jones. That would remind the public of just how big a hit Star Wars could have been.

"Luke, *I* am your father...














YIPPEE!!!"

[TheBaxter]

yesterday, i was able to participate in something very, very special. i was able to relive, as closely as anyone possibly could in this day and age short of getting into a time machine, the 1977 star wars experience. and when i say the 1977 experience, i really mean the 1977 experience.

waiting in a line stretching down the block and around the corner? check.
seeing the film on the big screen at a classic, historic single-screen theater? check.
a packed audience laughing and clapping and cheering at every iconic line and moment from the film? check.

and most importantly of all...

han shoots first?


CHECK!!!!


that's because last night, at the Senator Theater in Baltimore, there was a showing of an original, 1977 (purportedly*) British technicolor print of the original Star Wars. the REAL star wars, before lucas farted all over it with CGI and poop jokes. seeing the true original film, projected on a majestic big screen, was an amazing experience. and seeing this version of the film, before lucas got his grubby little hands (back) on it, was really special. no digital lizards and robots stepping in poo. no jabba the hutt, and han stepping on his tail. the wolfman back in the cantina. ben kenobi's lightsaber nearly disappearing during the vader duel. and the original attack on the death star, without the cgi insertions. there were shots in that final scene that i'd forgotten since i haven't seen them in years. the shot of 4 x-wings pointed towards the death star, opening their wings to X formation one at a time from behind, maybe it's not as "pretty" as the stuff lucas replaced it with in the special editions, but seeing that shot again was really, really cool. and the whole sequence is no less thrilling or impressive than the modified version. seeing the film this way, it really is criminal that lucas has done so much to suppress this version and keep it from the public eye.

and the print was in beautiful shape. there was the occasional dust or scratch, the colors were just a tad muted, and a few skipped frames and jumps here and there, but for the most part, i doubt this film looked much better on its original theatrical run.

as for how they "got away" with showing this version of the film, it comes down to: 1) the theater is shutting down, so what's lucas gonna do about it? and 2) it was a one-time-only, free show of a privately owned print, so that probably absolves them of some legal technicalities. before the show, they were even joking about the security they had in place in case lucas showed up demanding they turn the print over. you can read more about the story behind this event here. it's a pretty sad story, but like the now-former theater owner said before the show, if you have to go out, this is the way to go out in style.

it was a bittersweet experience, considering the uncertain future for this theater, but they definitely went out with a bang.

because i heard about this last minute, all i had was my crappy cell-phone camera, but here are a couple pictures of the theater marquee:








* i say purportedly, because i had always heard that all the original 1977 prints had the original title crawl that just said "Star Wars", and the "Episode IV - A New Hope" wasn't added until the 1980 re-releases. but this print did have the "Episode IV - A New Hope" heading. this was a British print, and according to IMDB the film wasn't released in Britain til December 1977. so i don't know if the new heading had been added by then to the title crawl for the original '77 british prints. maybe someone who knows more about these things than i can shed some light. otherwise, it may have been a 1980 re-issue print. it was definitely a UK print (it had the british film rating at the beginning) and it was definitely a pre-fucked-up-by-lucas-with-CGI print, so regardless of the actual date, it was a phenomenal thing to see.

[so sorry]

Too fucking cool Baxter. I think I saw the original in the theaters in 1978 when I was a wee lad. Definetly have memories of seeing the next two episodes "live".
SW aside: I actually remember sitting out in front of my grade school, waiting to go in for the day, and two older boys were talking about the Empire Strikes Back (I hadn't seen it yet). The one kid says to the other "can you believe Vader is Luke's dad?" and I was fucking CRUSHED. Fucking SPOILERS DAMMIT!!!

Glad you got to see this in its original state.

[Fried Gold]

* i say purportedly, because i had always heard that all the original 1977 prints had the original title crawl that just said "Star Wars", and the "Episode IV - A New Hope" wasn't added until the 1980 re-releases. but this print did have the "Episode IV - A New Hope" heading. this was a British print, and according to IMDB the film wasn't released in Britain til December 1977. so i don't know if the new heading had been added by then to the title crawl for the original '77 british prints. maybe someone who knows more about these things than i can shed some light. otherwise, it may have been a 1980 re-issue print. it was definitely a UK print (it had the british film rating at the beginning) and it was definitely a pre-fucked-up-by-lucas-with-CGI print, so regardless of the actual date, it was a phenomenal thing to see.

Likely a 1981 re-release print - the "Episode IV - A New Hope" title wasn't added until then.

Still rather cool though. It'd be good to see the original original version again. Saw it once at a screening a few years ago when I local cinema showed it along with an original print of Superman.

Even the Laserdisc editions had a few tweaks and the DVD copy of those just had the untitled crawl cut onto it. (I do have 80s VHS copies but I'm told even those had changes made for better accomodate TV ad-break moments)

[DaleTremont]

That's fucking awesome, Baxter. Wish I could have been there!

[magicmonkey]

as for how they "got away" with showing this version of the film, it comes down to: 1) the theater is shutting down, so what's lucas gonna do about it? and 2) it was a one-time-only, free show of a privately owned print, so that probably absolves them of some legal technicalities. before the show, they were even joking about the security they had in place in case lucas showed up demanding they turn the print over. you can read more about the story behind this event here. it's a pretty sad story, but like the now-former theater owner said before the show, if you have to go out, this is the way to go out in style.

You guys must have been sat huddled like a modern day speakeasy! I'd have been expecting Lord Lucas to come storming in at any time w/cgi smoke.

[RogueScribner]

I hate Baxter.

But only because I'm jealous.

[TheBaxter]

as for how they "got away" with showing this version of the film, it comes down to: 1) the theater is shutting down, so what's lucas gonna do about it? and 2) it was a one-time-only, free show of a privately owned print, so that probably absolves them of some legal technicalities. before the show, they were even joking about the security they had in place in case lucas showed up demanding they turn the print over. you can read more about the story behind this event here. it's a pretty sad story, but like the now-former theater owner said before the show, if you have to go out, this is the way to go out in style.

You guys must have been sat huddled like a modern day speakeasy! I'd have been expecting Lord Lucas to come storming in at any time w/cgi smoke.

nah, they had news crews there from the local news and everything. some people nearby me in line even got interviewed. though i guess lucas doesn't watch the local 6 o'clock news.

[TheButcher]

From Hero Complex:
Did 'Star Wars' become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back

“Star Wars” was born a long time ago, but not all that far, far away. In 1972, filmmakers George Lucas and Gary Kurtz were toiling on “American Graffiti” in their San Rafael office when they began daydreaming about a throwback sci-fi adventure that channeled the old “Flash Gordon” serials as opposed to the bleak “message” movies that had taken over the genre.

“We had no idea what we were starting,” said Kurtz, who was the producer of the first two “Star Wars” films and also a second-unit director. “That simple concept changed Hollywood in a way....”

There was a bittersweet tinge to Kurtz’s voice, and it’s no surprise. This year is the 30th anniversary of “The Empire Strikes Back,” the “Star Wars” sequel that many fans consider the pinnacle moment in a franchise that has pulled in $16 billion in box office and merchandising. But 1980 was also the year that Kurtz and Lucas realized the Jedi universe wasn’t big enough for the both of them.

“I could see where things were headed,” Kurtz said. “The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It’s a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It’s natural to make decisions that protect the toy business, but that’s not the best thing for making quality films.”

He added: “The first film and ‘Empire’ were about story and character, but I could see that George’s priorities were changing.”

[TonyWilson]

Fucking great article, thanks, Butch.

[The Vicar]

Fucking great article, thanks, Butch.

Yes indeed. It explains alot about how the franchise went sour. Too damned bad.
Artistic compromise just to sell toys. Frakking lame.

[Fievel]

FANTASTIC article!!!!!
The original ending to ROTJ sounds absolutely perfect.
Fucking Lucas.

[Bloo]

that was a great article and reading how the ending of ROTJ could have been, I can so picture it

Luke in his black ala what he wore on the attack on Jabba's palace, walking off into a Tatooniee sunset to Obi's house, cut to Leia on a big cruiser looking over the planet as they go off

[magicmonkey]

I just don't get it, I mean, I don't hate on Jedi, it was the first Star Wars I personally saw and I think as a kids film it primarily serves its function. I love the ending of say "Time Bandits" which seriously does make you think when you watch it as a child, it has a real power to it. There is all this empowerment to the film and its easily THE most subversive kids flick imaginable. So, the question is, should kids flicks be dumbed down to keep them docile, happy consumers or should they be respected, empowered and encouraged to make their own decisions? There has to be a balance, and right now it seems that any kind of kid empowerment fantasy flick, is just pure escapism, one that leads them to act out their fantasies all hopped up on sugar, and acting, well, a little delusional. It's truly a shock to see that Lucas is also HUGE supporter of education and teaching practices, when to watch his movies is like cutting off your sexuality whilst frottaging against the smooth and gently ribbed sets of the franchise before emerging after the film with a huge pulsating light sabre and a desire to "use the force" and sadly not your brain.

[Bloo]

while I saw all the Star Wars films in theaters (born in Feb of 77, my parents tell me that the first movie they took me too was Star Wars at a drive in in May of 77) but the first one that I have a memory of is Jedi in a theater in Topeka.

A couple of weeks later my local theater showed the first Star Trek movie as part of their summer matinee program.

Now although I love Star Wars and have seen it more then any other movie (excpet maybe The Big Lebowski--there was a time in college I'd watch that movie at least once a week), Star Trek: TPM has...stayed with me longer. It's a movie I didn't understand...hated...and now love.

Would I have understood the proposed ending of Jedi when it was released and I saw it as a kid in the theater? Probably not, but I think that ending would have stayed with me a lot more then cheering dancing Ewocks

[The Vicar]

Gods how I wanted the storm troopers to mow down those phurball phukwits.
Hell, I'd play a video arcade game where all you do is waste Ewoks.
Or Jar Jar.