The Matrix Trilogy: Revisited

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

How do you feel about The Matrix?

Poll ended at Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:46 pm

Best/Most Important SciFi of the 90s
15
23%
Important SciFi of the 90s
40
63%
Just another movie
5
8%
Below average film with above average effects
2
3%
One of the worst movies of the 90s
2
3%
 
Total votes : 64

Postby buster00 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:30 am

thedoglippedone wrote:
buster00 wrote:So, lemme ask yez this, then...

What sci-fi movie was MORE important to the genre in the 90's than The Matrix?

Whaddya gonna say? The Star Wars prequels? All three put together were not as vital as The Matrix. The question doesn't say anything about Reloaded or Revelations...which, technically, weren't released in the 90's anyway.

I'll MAYBE give ya Terminator 2...but since it's a sequel to an 80's flick...nah.


Pi


Lo, I am schooled.

I'll be over here, calculating my own dick into my own ass upwards of twelve billion decimal places.
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Postby Ribbons on Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:44 am

tapehead wrote:
Ribbons wrote:You gotta define important if you're going to call Gattaca the most important sci-fi film of the '90s. It was obviously nowhere near as innovative, popular or influential as The Matrix.



...sure dude... but 'Godzilla'?


Well OBVIOUSLY Godzilla was the most influential film ever made. Duh. No, but seriously, it was supposed to be a joke.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:04 am

Why is the html in Buster's post not working?

Don't look at me, I'm just a mod. This kind of problem needs to be solved by a rocker

ETA - I fixed it. Buster, you disabled html and BBcode in that last post - I re-enabled it!
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Postby buster00 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:08 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:Why is the html in Buster's post not working?

Don't look at me, I'm just a mod. This kind of problem needs to be solved by a rocker

ETA - I fixed it. Buster, you disabled html and BBcode in that last post - I re-enabled it!


testing testing
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:10 am

Ribbons wrote:
tapehead wrote:
Ribbons wrote:You gotta define important if you're going to call Gattaca the most important sci-fi film of the '90s. It was obviously nowhere near as innovative, popular or influential as The Matrix.



...sure dude... but 'Godzilla'?


Well OBVIOUSLY Godzilla was the most influential film ever made. Duh. No, but seriously, it was supposed to be a joke.


Yeah... I gues I kind of knew that - Hell 'Pi' was a good one I hadn't thought of
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Postby buster00 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:10 am

See, every time I've ever quoted someone, I always just hoped it looked normal (inside the purple rectangle) on "your" side.

This is going to come as a BIG SURPRISE to all of you...but I'm kind of LO-TECH.

What am I supposed to have activated in my options?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:15 am

It's cool, I fixed it again. Go into your Profile, and select "Always allow HTML" and "Always allow BBCode". If you like to see avatars and signatures, you will also need to reselect "Yes" for these two options, as the default option is "No".

This will solve your little quotation problem!
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Postby buster00 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:17 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:It's cool, I fixed it again. Go into your Profile, and select "Always allow HTML" and "Always allow BBCode". If you like to see avatars and signatures, you will also need to reselect "Yes" for these two options, as the default option is "No".

This will solve your little quotation problem!


Thank you so much, TITGirl! I am THAT much less annoying now!

Take what you can get!
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Postby Nordling on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:23 am

I don't dismiss the sequels. I really like them a lot, actually, and they grow on me.

I think what I like the most about the sequels is the message that the best way to stop a war is to simply stop fighting. I think the allegory of the films makes up for some bits of flawed storytelling.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:38 am

What, the Christian 'Saviour' allegory? or was there some other, more profound allegory at work in these movies?
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:19 am

I still wonder why there'S no "phantom edit" of the Matrix sequels? If you cut "Reloaded" down to 45-50 Minutes, put in in the beginning of "Revolutions" and cut some shit out of this, it would be a good sequel!
Oh, and part 1 is one of the most important films of the 90's and still really good.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:35 am

...yeah, there might be a few less huge action set pieces in the reloaded/revolutions combination... but so what?
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Postby Al Shut on Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:54 am

I really wish the Matrix had less impact on other movies. It was cool as hell when it came out but I'm growing tired of everbody knowing martial arts and doing kung fu.

The sequels completly lost me when Neo and the Oracle had a conversation that went somewhat like this...

Neo: But what about all the confusing stuff that strange guy tld me in the last movie?

Oracle: Oh that was bullshit, forget about that.
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:03 am

tapehead wrote:...yeah, there might be a few less huge action set pieces in the reloaded/revolutions combination... but so what?

Oh, the action was cool, but the whole dialogue about the french language and...there were so many senseless dialogues!
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:35 am

RogueScribner wrote:Jurassic Park

This single movie made everyone in Hollywood computer crazy. Stan Winston, we hardly knew ye!


The funny this is, about a this a movie, is a that Spielberg anna the producers, they were a so gracious to give a the Winston credit for a creating a the dinosaurs, no?

It's a like, they wanna to have a you believe he made a the huge T-Rex that could a walk around anna stuff... I think he prolly put his a heart anna his a soul inna to a the work, anna when it dinna pan out quite a the way he wanted, anna he saw a the reality of a the CGI dinosaurs, he prolly took a the crap inna his a pants anna said "Stevey! You gotta to help a me save a the face! You gonna to put a me out of a the job, eh?"

Believe a you me... the Dino knows, eh? I did a the same thing for a Carlo Rambaldi inna my Kong... holy crappa he built a the huge Kong to scale... arms, legs, torso... everything, eh? Most of a the goddamn budget went into a building a that goddamn robot and it dinna even a work, eh? I use it inna the one scene inna the stadium... Alla the rest? Rick Baker inna the monkey suit. Anna yet, inna the end of a the movie, I gotta to give alla the credit to Carlo, eh? I dinna wanna to ruin the putzes career.

The Winston dinos? They just a the puppets... you watch a the scenes that use a the puppets anna then watch a the scenes of a the CGI, anna it's alla 'most a the laughable, eh?
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:38 am

I think Winston's full size T-rex was pretty impressive considering it had to perform in rain etc. If anyone felt they were getting pushed out the door it was most likely Tippet.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:41 am

buster00 wrote:Take what you can get!


I do, and I shall!

DerLanghaarige wrote:Oh, the action was cool, but the whole dialogue about the french language and...there were so many senseless dialogues!


Call me a putz, but I always though that the Merovingian's spiel about French was one of his best lines! C'mon dude, you can't deny that it's more pleasing to the ear than English! Or German
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Postby Ribbons on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:44 am

What?! German is, without a doubt, the sexiest language in the world. You can say anything in German and it sounds romantic. Try it on your sweetie some time, you'll charm the pants off of him/her.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:04 am

Oh, believe me I do.

But I'm lucky that my sweetie is a 20-stone bearded biker with a penchant for death metal
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:05 am

Ich liebe dich.
My problem with the french-dialogue is, that it didn't make sense. They go to the merowinger (for a reason I can't remember) and instead of talking about something important, he's talking about french and libido in a pie. And he's saying just a short line about it, he is interrupting the film for about 5 minutes or so!
If I would like to hear people talking random bullshit, just because the writers had to fill some pages, I would watch more Tarantino-flicks!

There is nothing wrong with much dialogue, but in a film it has to make sense!
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Postby Petri on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:28 am

Peven wrote:as a stand alone movie, the Matrix is pretty sweet, and has a satisfying ENDING. when the credits roll, thats it, story over, but the W bros couldn't resist milking the success of the Matrix and tried to tack on the sequels, but the first wasn't made to be a first act, part one, of a trilogy, so inevitable plot holes and contradictions were spread throughout the sequels trying to drive a story that was already over at the end of the first movie.


Exactly. The first one was groundbreaking and outstanding. The sequels were simply money-makers.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:29 am

...in the scond two, I found the 'burly brawl' and the length of that massive highway scene to be a little yawn inducing, at least after the initial wow-factor moments in both - Merovingian I could have listened to all day, as they kept cutting to Belluci (cue close up of her lips...ahhhh) but some of those conversations with the oracle(2) i could have done without
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Postby Petri on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:43 am

The 'burly brawl' was so blatently CGI it was sad. I love CG sequences as much as the next guy but when I feel like I'm watching a video game instead of a movie, they've gone too far.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:58 am

DerLanghaarige wrote:Ich liebe dich.
My problem with the french-dialogue is, that it didn't make sense. They go to the merowinger (for a reason I can't remember) and instead of talking about something important, he's talking about french and libido in a pie. And he's saying just a short line about it, he is interrupting the film for about 5 minutes or so!
If I would like to hear people talking random bullshit, just because the writers had to fill some pages, I would watch more Tarantino-flicks!

There is nothing wrong with much dialogue, but in a film it has to make sense!


I totally get what you mean, I just thought that this particular line of dialogue wasn't so bad, in that it communicated the idea that inside the Matrix, certain programs can simply decide to become French, fo the hell of it.

And, as someone else said, the whole scene is an opportunity to study Belluci!
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:45 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:If anyone felt they were getting pushed out the door it was most likely Tippet.


I dunno, eh? He bounce back a pretty quickly with a the Starship Troopers, no? I think a the bug effects, they still hold uppa after alla this a time... what's it been, like a the 10 years, no? That's a the eternity inna the CGI years...

Anna the practical effects, they pretty good too... some of a the best blood anna carnage after-effects I've ever seen inna the movies... when a Roughnecks come upon a the outpost anna alla the putzes are a dead anna dismembered? Totally realisitic looking... they got a the color of the dead flesh anna the dried blood totally onna the money...
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Postby Peven on Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:55 pm

Starship Troopers is pretty good for what it is, and a hell of a lot more rewatchable than movies considered much better, as in "A Beautiful Mind", or "The Piano", etc. Dino knows his stuff.
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Postby austenandrews on Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:55 pm

The exposition in the sequels made me want to crush my head in a vice. Good Christ, did the W bros even read that stuff aloud before they gave it to the actors?
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Postby Ribbons on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:34 pm

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Postby RogueScribner on Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:56 am

The worst thing about the sequels was that Morpheus became a caricature of himself. He was so cool in the first one. The sequels made him laughable.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:11 am

What I meant Dino was that Tippet's Go-Motion was scrapped completely while Stan Winston's animatronic effects remained thus I think Tippet on that show probably felt more like he was a thing of the past then Winston.
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Postby RogueScribner on Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:59 am

And the mechanical T-rex was muy bien.
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:29 am

RogueScribner wrote:The worst thing about the sequels was that Morpheus became a caricature of himself. He was so cool in the first one. The sequels made him laughable.

My mother had a similar problem with the sequels. She didn't think that Morpheus became a caricature, but in part 1 he was "da man" and we all thought he would be an important person in Zion, but in the sequels we learned that he was just one of many and he turned from one of the most interesting characters, to one of the most underused characters. It was like the Wachowskis had no idea what they should do with him, now, that he finally found Neo.
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Postby buster00 on Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Jurassic Park

Having seen the movie again recently, I gotta say the Jeff Goldblum effects don't hold up very well.

Most of the other special effects do, though.

Thematically, however, what does Jurassic Park have to contribute that Frankenstein or The Island of Dr. Moreau don't already say about "meddling in things man should leave alone" and "the responsibility the creator has to his creation?" What GROUND does it break? Nobody is second-guessing the "cool" of Jurassic Park -- I'll watch it again and again -- but how is it IMPORTANT beyond the realm of special effects?
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Postby Peven on Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:11 am

JP is partly responsible for the screams of "bad cgi" every time a movie with fx comes out these days, and movies chock full of fx and shitty writing, since cgi/fx was what the entire hype around the movie was based on when it came out. no one was saying anything about how good the acting was, or the writing, or the the direction, and that didn't seem to matter because oooohh aaaahhh the dinosaurs looked so real. then they made the same movie two more times and were still able to make a buttload of money because, ooooohhhh aaaahhhh the dinosaurs still look so cool. another knock on JP, the cgi supposedly was the spark that motivated Lucas to make the SW prequels, and he followed the same formula; make it all about the fx, and very little about writing and acting.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:35 am

DerLanghaarige wrote:Ich liebe dich.
My problem with the french-dialogue is, that it didn't make sense. They go to the merowinger (for a reason I can't remember) and instead of talking about something important, he's talking about french and libido in a pie. And he's saying just a short line about it, he is interrupting the film for about 5 minutes or so!
If I would like to hear people talking random bullshit, just because the writers had to fill some pages, I would watch more Tarantino-flicks!

There is nothing wrong with much dialogue, but in a film it has to make sense!


He talks about causality. Cause/effect. That stuff.
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:10 am

But WHY is he talking about it? Was it important at any time?
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Postby Belac on Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:53 am

Yeah, it was. The whole trilogy was about cause and effect VS choice.
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Postby DerLanghaarige on Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:24 am

But wasn't there a better way to explain this than interrupting the film with a long and annoying dialogue about french, pies, sex and causality? Like...an interesting dialogue about causality?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:39 am

Hey! We got a new animation in the top left-hand corner!

Do you think somebody is bitter that Harry didn't include Kong in his Top 10?
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Postby thomasgaffney on Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:43 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:Hey! We got a new animation in the top left-hand corner!

Do you think somebody is bitter that Harry didn't include Kong in his Top 10?


I think it's more there because Harry's alma mater The University of Texas won the college football National Championship
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Postby Ribbons on Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:26 pm

buster00 wrote:Re: Jurassic Park

Having seen the movie again recently, I gotta say the Jeff Goldblum effects don't hold up very well.

Most of the other special effects do, though.

Thematically, however, what does Jurassic Park have to contribute that Frankenstein or The Island of Dr. Moreau don't already say about "meddling in things man should leave alone" and "the responsibility the creator has to his creation?" What GROUND does it break? Nobody is second-guessing the "cool" of Jurassic Park -- I'll watch it again and again -- but how is it IMPORTANT beyond the realm of special effects?


Well the "irresponsible science" thing was transplanted into the context of big business, which I think is pretty appropriate for our times. But beyond that? Depends on who you talk to. Some may consider its contribution to the f/x world enough to make it "Important." I dunno.
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Postby minstrel on Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:53 pm

I like the first Matrix fine. I thought it was kinda boring as sci-fi (ugh - I hate that term), but it RULED with its action sequences. Very eye-opening. Morpheus, however, needed to lighten up a bit. Reminded me of Gregory Peck's Ahab - no sense of humor, just deep ponderous basso profundo pronouncements all the time. The guy needed to get a life.

I found the sequels unwatchable. They were trying to explain way too much of what really wasn't very good background stuff. I just wanted an Austin Powers-like character to wink at the camera and say something like "Don't worry about this too much - just go with it." I think I would have enjoyed it more.
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Postby Fried Gold on Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:44 pm

Petri wrote:The 'burly brawl' was so blatently CGI it was sad. I love CG sequences as much as the next guy but when I feel like I'm watching a video game instead of a movie, they've gone too far.

I thought it was supposed to look slightly computer game-ish. Kind of like the point was to show that Neo could bend and break the rules of the program behind the Matrix.
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Postby Petri on Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:16 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
Petri wrote:The 'burly brawl' was so blatently CGI it was sad. I love CG sequences as much as the next guy but when I feel like I'm watching a video game instead of a movie, they've gone too far.

I thought it was supposed to look slightly computer game-ish. Kind of like the point was to show that Neo could bend and break the rules of the program behind the Matrix.


Granted, but I'm not referring to the feat he performs, but rather the actual look of Neo. If you look closely, his hair looses it's texture and becomes way too smooth to be a real person (anti-aliasing), that hurt the movie for me.
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Postby austenandrews on Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:05 pm

Ribbons wrote:Some may consider its contribution to the f/x world enough to make it "Important." I dunno.

That's it in a nutshell. It was a quantum leap in effects technology, just like the original King Kong. Like Kong, it has influenced all subsequent effects films. Also like Kong, it's quite the ripping adventure yarn in its own right (which isn't incidental - in its way TPM was just as groundbreaking in terms of SFX, but being an unsatisfying cinematic experience, it won't be remembered as such).
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Postby Conroy420 on Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 pm

Matrix was a big film for 1999, my favourite of that year is Fight Club though. It did a lot of things for Hollywood, but I don't know if its the most important sci-fi film of the 90s.

I think if the Ws took a little more time on the scripts for the sequels they could have been great. Reloaded did nothing for me, it was a muddled mess as far as I'm concerned. As for Revolutions, it pretty much followed the sequel formula, BIGGER EVERYTHING. In that respect, it was a solid sequel because it didn't really do anything badly. I still really enjoy that last fight with Smith, I'll watch it anytime I catch it on the tube.
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Postby Gheorghe Zamfir on Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:21 pm

Petri wrote:Granted, but I'm not referring to the feat he performs, but rather the actual look of Neo. If you look closely, his hair looses it's texture and becomes way too smooth to be a real person (anti-aliasing), that hurt the movie for me.


I always thought it was a bit odd that when they switched it over to CGI, one of the biggest giveaways was Neo's jacket, seemed to just completely change texture.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:32 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
Petri wrote:The 'burly brawl' was so blatently CGI it was sad. I love CG sequences as much as the next guy but when I feel like I'm watching a video game instead of a movie, they've gone too far.

I thought it was supposed to look slightly computer game-ish. Kind of like the point was to show that Neo could bend and break the rules of the program behind the Matrix.


I'm sure the makers of the film would love you for saying that. They'd be all, "Hey, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, that's it. It was a computer world, so it looks computerish. Score!"

When in fact, it was simply the limitations of the technology at the time it was made. Simple as that.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:07 pm

Rolling Stone has an article up over HERE about Larry Wachowski and his BDSM lifestyle. Really interesting read, discusses how his fetishes bled over into the Matrix movies.
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Postby MiltonWaddams on Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:22 pm

the matrix sequels crapped on how great the original was. i watched two, then i saw one was on TNT, so it was all cut down and commercial riddled, but it was still head and shoulders above the sequels.

i can't think of a sci fi movie that was better in the 90's. fifth element was up their for entertainment, but the matrix actually had an impact.
MiltonWaddams
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