AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Nachokoolaid on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:06 am

I wanted one of the Navi to shoot Ribisi in his gut and make him cry for his mama while he slowly died because no one else had any type of medical training.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:56 am

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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:52 pm

Just to pick up on the Star Wars versus Avatar discussion from earlier. I would say that Star Wars definately had more captivating memorable characters. They were much more movie-ish and so they gave a formula story more personality.

The characters in Avatar were more like real people. I think it is either the film's main strength or weakness, I can't decide which. The way the soldier guy acts and talks and especially the scientists. Anybody who's ever been around scientists has got to admit that Cameron got that culture down pat. The way Weaver treats anybody who isn't a scientist like an idiot. The way the scientists completely bite the hand that feeds in terms of their attitude towards the organization from which their funding comes. The way the scientists interact with each other. All this stuff felt totally real to me.

Like I said, making the characters like real people adds a lot of advantages but I think the movie would have appealed more to me if the characters had been more like movie characters and had big screen charm and stylized dialogue and scenary-chewing performances like Han Solo and Obi Wan did in Star Wars.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:07 pm

That's no moon.... it's a space station.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby justcheckin on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:44 am

M-O-O-N... that spells space station
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:51 am

Nachokoolaid wrote:I wanted one of the Navi to shoot Ribisi in his gut and make him cry for his mama while he slowly died because no one else had any type of medical training.



Was that him in The Thin Red Line?
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Dookert on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:52 am

Ive never seen a bigger bunch of malcontented assholes in my life. How can you " RI-TARDS" say it sucked? Just saw Avatar, it was AWESOME! no other word. How kickass were their faces. The expressions, the eyes, the TEETH! how cool were the teeth on these characters ( animals included). Forgot I wasn't watching real human beings after 5 minutes in. Thats the only test I need. mesmerizing.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Fievel on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:22 pm

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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:27 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:
Nachokoolaid wrote:I wanted one of the Navi to shoot Ribisi in his gut and make him cry for his mama while he slowly died because no one else had any type of medical training.



Was that him in The Thin Red Line?


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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Jabbadonut on Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:00 am

Spandau Belly wrote:Just to pick up on the Star Wars versus Avatar discussion from earlier. I would say that Star Wars definately had more captivating memorable characters. They were much more movie-ish and so they gave a formula story more personality.

The characters in Avatar were more like real people. I think it is either the film's main strength or weakness, I can't decide which. The way the soldier guy acts and talks and especially the scientists. Anybody who's ever been around scientists has got to admit that Cameron got that culture down pat. The way Weaver treats anybody who isn't a scientist like an idiot. The way the scientists completely bite the hand that feeds in terms of their attitude towards the organization from which their funding comes. The way the scientists interact with each other. All this stuff felt totally real to me.

Like I said, making the characters like real people adds a lot of advantages but I think the movie would have appealed more to me if the characters had been more like movie characters and had big screen charm and stylized dialogue and scenary-chewing performances like Han Solo and Obi Wan did in Star Wars.


A. Quit comparing Star Wars with Avatar.
B. George Lucas made Star Wars for family, i.e., with children in mind.
C. The impact of Avatar is that we all know, now, that 3-D can work, and if done "right*" can be an extraordinary experience.
D. We are all lucky we live in a country and world that can produce something that inspires, incites, and resonates, like both Avatar and Star Wars.
E. All of the above!

*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.

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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:29 am

Jabbadonut wrote:*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.

:)


Why you think that? Avatar is total family film as far as I'm concerned. Loads of ages, groups, families I think are ideally suited to Avatar. Also, I hardly ever say to my Mum that this is a movie you should see, you should see that movie too, etc. But Avatar I really wanted to drag her to over Christmas.

From what I gathered, Lucas said he wanted to make Star Wars for kids (not necessarily families specifically). He was surprised that all ages went to see it so much. Something along those lines I remember him saying.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Jabbadonut on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:01 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Jabbadonut wrote:*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.

:)


Why you think that? Avatar is total family film as far as I'm concerned. Loads of ages, groups, families I think are ideally suited to Avatar. Also, I hardly ever say to my Mum that this is a movie you should see, you should see that movie too, etc. But Avatar I really wanted to drag her to over Christmas.

From what I gathered, Lucas said he wanted to make Star Wars for kids (not necessarily families specifically). He was surprised that all ages went to see it so much. Something along those lines I remember him saying.


Exactly. Lucas said he wanted to make Star Wars for kids. James Cameron did not say he wanted to make Avatar for kids.

A more fair comparison, to me, would be to look at "The Dark Knight," and compare that to Avatar. Not Star Wars.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby thomasgaffney on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:02 am

Avatar was okay, but it was no Star Wars...
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Bloo on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:50 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Jabbadonut wrote:*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.

:)


Why you think that? Avatar is total family film as far as I'm concerned. Loads of ages, groups, families I think are ideally suited to Avatar. Also, I hardly ever say to my Mum that this is a movie you should see, you should see that movie too, etc. But Avatar I really wanted to drag her to over Christmas.

From what I gathered, Lucas said he wanted to make Star Wars for kids (not necessarily families specifically). He was surprised that all ages went to see it so much. Something along those lines I remember him saying.


I would take anyone of any age to see either movie

I don't think Lucas set out to make a family movie or a kids movie, I think he sat out, much like he did later with Spielberg on Raiders, to make the type of movie that inspired him, that he saw as a kid, specifically the action adventure/Flash Gordon type seriels
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby minstrel on Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:05 am

Spandau Belly wrote: Anybody who's ever been around scientists has got to admit that Cameron got that culture down pat. The way Weaver treats anybody who isn't a scientist like an idiot. The way the scientists completely bite the hand that feeds in terms of their attitude towards the organization from which their funding comes. The way the scientists interact with each other. All this stuff felt totally real to me.


I don't get this. I grew up around my cousins, and they were scientists, and married scientists, and I went to many gatherings and parties they hosted that had a heap of scientists there. I wasn't a scientist (I'm an engineer), but I was never treated like an idiot. I never saw any of these people treating anybody else like they were idiots. And they weren't biting the hand that feeds them. I call bullshit on this post.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:52 pm

minstrel wrote:
Spandau Belly wrote: Anybody who's ever been around scientists has got to admit that Cameron got that culture down pat. The way Weaver treats anybody who isn't a scientist like an idiot. The way the scientists completely bite the hand that feeds in terms of their attitude towards the organization from which their funding comes. The way the scientists interact with each other. All this stuff felt totally real to me.

I don't get this. I grew up around my cousins, and they were scientists, and married scientists, and I went to many gatherings and parties they hosted that had a heap of scientists there. I wasn't a scientist (I'm an engineer), but I was never treated like an idiot. I never saw any of these people treating anybody else like they were idiots. And they weren't biting the hand that feeds them. I call bullshit on this post.


It's not bullshit, it's different life experiences.

I've known lots of friendly scientists, but there's definately always several in the group that really remind me of Weaver's character in this. I notice this especially when I've been around a whole lad of people who work together and it's supposed to be social time but they just keep talking shop and there's usually a competitive vibe to it.

Maybe it's just me.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:00 pm

Jabbadonut wrote:A. Quit comparing Star Wars with Avatar.

No.
Jabbadonut wrote:B. George Lucas made Star Wars for family, i.e., with children in mind.

I think both guys wanted to make a compelling and entertaining sci-fi epic. I'm not sure what the rating was on Star Wars when it was released, but I would say both of them are at what people call a "PG" level in terms of violence and sex and whatever. I'd say both are equally suitable for children.
Jabbadonut wrote:C. The impact of Avatar is that we all know, now, that 3-D can work, and if done "right*" can be an extraordinary experience.

Did anybody think 3D didn't work? It's usually used as a cheesy gimmick to get people to see stuff like My Bloody Valetine 3D or Final Destination 4 and this is probably the first time it's been used on a non-cartoon movie that I actually wanted to see, but I don't think that means the technology was ever in doubt.
Jabbadonut wrote:D. We are all lucky we live in a country and world that can produce something that inspires, incites, and resonates, like both Avatar and Star Wars.

Yes.
Jabbadonut wrote:*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.
:)

Yeah, will do, next time I see him.
Jabbadonut wrote:A more fair comparison, to me, would be to look at "The Dark Knight," and compare that to Avatar. Not Star Wars

There's no way in hell I would show The Dark Knight to small children. And I don't get how it's more fair to compare a sci-fi epic about a small rebellion fighting a big powerful empire to a superhero movie instead of a movie about the same thing.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:47 pm

I saw it last night in IMAX 3D. If you're going to see it, make sure you see it in this format if available. You're going to want to watch it in the most visually stimulating format possible...because at the end of the day the visuals are the only thing worth writing home about with this film. Don't get me wrong, they are incredibly impressive...and WELL worth the price of admission. The attention to detail, the colors, the quality of the 3D, the ability of the FX to convince us that we are watching REAL creatures and not CGI, it's incredibly impressive. As much as Gollum was an improvement over Jar Jar, this is an improvement over Gollum.

As to Spandau's point about regarding 3D, no, i don't think anyone was doubting 3D per se...but I for one doubted the ability of 3D to immerse someone in a film on a real level beyond gimmicky shit like My Bloody Valentine, or a true cartoon. This film DID change that for me. The 3D promptly stopped being a series of "oh cool" moments (which they traditionally have been at best....or distractions at worst) and became PART of the film. I stopped noticing the 3D specifically after about 20 minutes, but I do know that the immersion in the film was more complete, and the film more enjoyable, as a result of the excellent use of 3D.

Just to give you an indication as to how impressive the visuals and 3D are, I'm giving this film an 8/10, despite the fact that everything else...the story, the acting, the direction, the sound, the music, everything is really just par for the course. Actually the sound, direction and music are par, the story and acting is more straight to DVD quality.

We all know at this point that the story has been done before. Many times. And it has been done far better than this was. I knew what would happen before ever entering the theater. So did you. Admit it. Not just the overall arc either, you knew what would happen more or less to each specific character. That's the downfall of this film.

I got a little sick of the Na'vi. They truly are "Indigenous Culture #2a" with a little Blue Dye #5. INCREDIBLY generic and generally uninteresting. I liked the girl though. She was generic too, but charismatic. Which in and of itself is pretty damned impressive for a CGI character at the end of the day.

Speaking of unoriginal, how about this review?? I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said. So I'll go ahead and sum up.

Story is hackneyed and unoriginal. Acting is subpar. Everything else is at par except for the visuals which are extraordinary. As with all films with extraordinary visuals, its shelf-life will be limited. But with any luck there will be a legacy from films like Avatar with the excellent use of CGI and 3D. It did avoid the pitfalls that Lucas fell into with respect to the use of CGI. With any luck, with Avatar's massive financial success, this will open the door to a truly visionary directing/writing team to take the style of Avatar and apply some substance. Highly recommended for visuals, make sure you see it in the theater, preferably in 3D IMAX.

8/10.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby RogueScribner on Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:48 pm

I think the true test of this film will be in 20 - 30 years when the VFX will look old hat. Will people still be holding Avatar up on a pedestal when they're they're forced to look past the spectacle to the story instead? Even with all the clunky effects, I can have fun with Star Wars or even a more recent film like Army of Darkness precisely because the characters and the adventure were so good. I seriously don't think Avatar is going to hold up. It didn't tell the same trite old story in an interesting way (save for the art direction and cgi). Absolutely no chances were taken with the story or the characters. Everything fit into its neat little hole.

I realize I've probably dogged this movie more than it deserves, because it is entertaining. It's a good movie with great visuals. But it's not a great movie. I wouldn't even call it a very good movie. It's entertaining, but ultimately there's not a lot to grab onto once you strip the visuals away. Taking inspiration from other stories, etc. is fine when you have something new to add to it. But Avatar just slapped a new coat of paint on an old jalopy. It may look nice, but it's still an old jalopy.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:13 pm

But if we stripped the visuals away, it'd just be a complex radio show. And it would be a completely different thing. But it's a movie, and it's earning the praise because of the visuals, so if you "take those away," you're taking away what makes it great in order to simply say it's not great. Well, duh.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby minstrel on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:13 am

RogueScribner wrote:I think the true test of this film will be in 20 - 30 years when the VFX will look old hat. Will people still be holding Avatar up on a pedestal when they're they're forced to look past the spectacle to the story instead? Even with all the clunky effects, I can have fun with Star Wars or even a more recent film like Army of Darkness precisely because the characters and the adventure were so good. I seriously don't think Avatar is going to hold up. It didn't tell the same trite old story in an interesting way (save for the art direction and cgi). Absolutely no chances were taken with the story or the characters. Everything fit into its neat little hole.


I agree that the test will be in 20 - 30 years. But are the characters and adventure of Star Wars really that good? C-3P0 is embarrassing to watch. Han Solo is one-dimensional. (He grows another dimension in the sequels, but not in the original.) Luke Skywalker is the same character as every young hero in any adventure movie. Every complaint you have about Avatar, IMO, applies to Star Wars, too. But Cameron is a much better filmmaker than Lucas, and his work will last longer.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby The Todd on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:52 am

*see The Todd's earlier posts, bashing the Avatar. Seen it. Opinion unchanged.*
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:10 am

minstrel wrote:I agree that the test will be in 20 - 30 years. But are the characters and adventure of Star Wars really that good? C-3P0 is embarrassing to watch. Han Solo is one-dimensional. (He grows another dimension in the sequels, but not in the original.) Luke Skywalker is the same character as every young hero in any adventure movie. Every complaint you have about Avatar, IMO, applies to Star Wars, too. But Cameron is a much better filmmaker than Lucas, and his work will last longer.


No way! The characters in Star Wars are memorable. People know when you're doing an impression of Obi Wan, people can recognize dialogue from those movies, I can't think of the number of times people have compared a character in other movies to Yoda, those Star Wars movies and their characters deserve their place as iconic works of cinema.

Cameron is a more naturalistic writer. His dialogue sounds more like how real people talk and his characters seem more like real people. I give him credit for it and I enjoyed Avatar, but I thought the whole "real people" thing worked better in The Abyss and would've preferred some more memorable characters with bigger personalities.

Avatar did feel like a version of Star Wars where you stripped out all the characters with personality. Sam Worthington was the "same young guy in every adventure story" as Luke Skywalker and Zoe Salanda was the same hard-to-get love interest who pulls the hero into her political struggles as Leia (although she was a better actress than Carrie Fisher), but Avatar just had no Han Solo, no Obi Wan, no Darth Vader, no C3PO.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Jabbadonut on Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:49 am

Spandau Belly wrote:
Jabbadonut wrote:A. Quit comparing Star Wars with Avatar.

No.
Jabbadonut wrote:B. George Lucas made Star Wars for family, i.e., with children in mind.

I think both guys wanted to make a compelling and entertaining sci-fi epic. I'm not sure what the rating was on Star Wars when it was released, but I would say both of them are at what people call a "PG" level in terms of violence and sex and whatever. I'd say both are equally suitable for children.
Jabbadonut wrote:C. The impact of Avatar is that we all know, now, that 3-D can work, and if done "right*" can be an extraordinary experience.

Did anybody think 3D didn't work? It's usually used as a cheesy gimmick to get people to see stuff like My Bloody Valetine 3D or Final Destination 4 and this is probably the first time it's been used on a non-cartoon movie that I actually wanted to see, but I don't think that means the technology was ever in doubt.
Jabbadonut wrote:D. We are all lucky we live in a country and world that can produce something that inspires, incites, and resonates, like both Avatar and Star Wars.

Yes.
Jabbadonut wrote:*-Ask him, he wanted something for family viewing. I don't think Cameron had family so much in mind with Avatar.
:)

Yeah, will do, next time I see him.
Jabbadonut wrote:A more fair comparison, to me, would be to look at "The Dark Knight," and compare that to Avatar. Not Star Wars

There's no way in hell I would show The Dark Knight to small children. And I don't get how it's more fair to compare a sci-fi epic about a small rebellion fighting a big powerful empire to a superhero movie instead of a movie about the same thing.


Allow me to explain the reference to "The Dark Knight."

Avatar is an adult film in the sense that the characters aren't as black and white as Obi Wan, Luke, and the gang. The film plays to an adult audience a bit more than "Star Wars," except ROTS, which I felt was a more adult Star Wars film than any of the preceding ones. Also, Avatar has some pretty horrific monsters, in 3D mind you, that I know would have given me nightmares as a child under, say, 10.

I haven't seen every 3D movie out there, so can compare my experience with Avatar only to the ones I've seen. What James Cameron has done is brought the audience into the film by his usage of 3D. All the other 3D movies I've seen throw the film at you, instead of bringing you into it. There were times in Avatar that I felt like I was standing right there next to the character on screen. I've NEVER gotten that from any film I've ever seen before, so to me Avatar is a leap forward in film making technology, as important as digital animation was when it came along.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby RogueScribner on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 am

Jabbadonut wrote:
Avatar is an adult film in the sense that the characters aren't as black and white as Obi Wan, Luke, and the gang.


Funny, I thought every single character was black and white in Avatar, except for Jake Sully, but his arc was the most predictable of anyone's. That was one of my chief complaints about the film: no chances were taken with the story. There weren't any interesting twists. There wasn't much in the way of shades of gray. Quaritch began and ended the movie as a tough as nails asshole. Selfridge began and ended the movie as a sleazy suit only concerned about the bottom line. Patel began and ended the movie as a nice scientist. Grace began and ended the movie as a tough but caring scientist. Neytiri fell in love with Jake, but she was basically the same person throughout. Same goes for all the other Na'vi. Everyone had their assigned roles and stuck to them. There were no reversals, no moments where a character seemed to actually change their mind about something except for Jake Sully (and kinda sorta Trudy, but she wasn't given a lot to do).

If Avatar is supposed to be more "real" and "adult" then there's no excuse for putting so little thought into the dramatic build of the story. The lines were drawn in the sand at the beginning of the movie and the only one who crossed over was Jake. IMO, that is not good storytelling. It's lazy and uninspired writing.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 am

I didn't find Avatar in the least bit adult or its characters to be multi-leveled. Everything in it was a totally black and white stacked deck: big heartless greedy empire trying to destroy beautiful home of spiritual tribe to exploit it for resources. Worthington and Rodriguez switch sides during the movie, but I wouldn't call that complicated. It's a standard hero arc.

Look at something like The Matrix where you had characters from both sides switching sides like Cypher who wants to go back into the matrix, as well as third party characters like The Merolvigian who aren't on any side but their own. To me that's a more complicated adult sci-fi epic.

Avatar was fun and all, but it's a story so simple a child could understand it and a story so completely stacked that the audience can only feel one way.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby markdraws on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:59 pm

Is AVATAR based on a comic book?
It sure seems like it.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Jabbadonut on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:08 pm

markdraws wrote:Is AVATAR based on a comic book?
It sure seems like it.
Comments?


There is a cartoon series on TV called "Avatar: The Last Airbender" on Nicktoons. I watched one episode of it, and it is strictly for kids. I don't know enough about it, though, to know if it influenced Cameron, or is even related in any way.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Jabbadonut on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:15 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:I didn't find Avatar in the least bit adult or its characters to be multi-leveled. Everything in it was a totally black and white stacked deck: big heartless greedy empire trying to destroy beautiful home of spiritual tribe to exploit it for resources. Worthington and Rodriguez switch sides during the movie, but I wouldn't call that complicated. It's a standard hero arc.

Look at something like The Matrix where you had characters from both sides switching sides like Cypher who wants to go back into the matrix, as well as third party characters like The Merolvigian who aren't on any side but their own. To me that's a more complicated adult sci-fi epic.

Avatar was fun and all, but it's a story so simple a child could understand it and a story so completely stacked that the audience can only feel one way.


I felt the characters were less black and white than the Star Wars characters, not in general. I agree with everything you say here, but my main point is I don't think we should be comparing Avatar with Star Wars, which is just my opinion. I find that comparison to be like trying to say, for example, "Gladiator" and "Troy" should be put side to side and judged against one another.

I would like to add to what you said about the writing for Avatar. It wasn't really good writing, but I found Cameron's direction of Avatar to be pretty good.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:20 pm

Jabbadonut wrote:
markdraws wrote:Is AVATAR based on a comic book?
It sure seems like it.
Comments?


There is a cartoon series on TV called "Avatar: The Last Airbender" on Nicktoons. I watched one episode of it, and it is strictly for kids. I don't know enough about it, though, to know if it influenced Cameron, or is even related in any way.


I think it is based off of this story from the 50's or something. I believe I read that somewhere.

EDIT: A quick google search turned up a video game that is essentially the same as AVATAR. Cameron REALLY needs to stop ripping people off.
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AVATAR based on a comic book?

Postby markdraws on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:22 pm

Was this movie based on or from some old comic book?
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Animorganimate on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:34 pm

Jabbadonut wrote:
markdraws wrote:Is AVATAR based on a comic book?
It sure seems like it.
Comments?


There is a cartoon series on TV called "Avatar: The Last Airbender" on Nicktoons. I watched one episode of it, and it is strictly for kids. I don't know enough about it, though, to know if it influenced Cameron, or is even related in any way.


Um...no. I don't think there is any specific comics James got his idea from, but like stated so many times prior, many past movies and events in world history influenced Cameron's Avatar story.

As for the cartoon called Avatar...that has nothing to do with this Avatar. In fact, Avatar: The Last Airbender is being made into a film by M. Night Shammy. That cartoon has to do with elemental tribes and one kid who knows all the elements, etc., etc.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:48 pm

I find the emphasis being put on story not being "original" quite amusing. It's just comes across like you're clutching at straws.

Look back at the highest-grossers from the past 25 years and see if you can spot one which had a truly original story.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:06 pm

Fried Gold wrote:I find the emphasis being put on story not being "original" quite amusing. It's just comes across like you're clutching at straws.

Look back at the highest-grossers from the past 25 years and see if you can spot one which had a truly original story.


I am right there with you, FG. In fact, some would argue it was the "unoriginal story" that allowed the film to be so successful.

If you want the maximum amount of people to enjoy it...they need something familiar...broad strokes, you know?
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby minstrel on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:23 pm

I agree with Fried Gold. Very few movies have original stories. When I reviewed Avatar, I didn't make any great claims about the story or the characters. What I said was that you haven't seen this story told like this. The tale is in the telling. Cameron immersed me in an amazing world and made me believe it. The TELLING of the tale was amazing.

I wish people would stop defending Star Wars based on its characters. They're no better than Avatar's. Since when is Darth Vader a compelling villain? He dresses in black and wears a mask, so he's scary? Jeez. There's a whole thread here on the Zone somewhere about how he's not really very impressive. The other characters are pretty much stock, from the benign mentor (Obi Wan) to the young hero Luke, to the unattainable love interest Leia, to the loner out for himself Han, to the lovable sidekicks R2D2 and C-3P0 ... I've seen it all before.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:26 pm

Lord of the Rings is now general knowledge.

The public seems to want more Spider-Man.

The Dark Knight made similar last year.

Star Trek was somewhat popular.

Avatar's made $1billion+.



Can science fiction and fantasy really still be considered a niche, geek-only genre by the mainstream anymore?

Perhaps that's what Avatar's stamp will be.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:28 pm

Fried Gold wrote:Lord of the Rings is now general knowledge.

The public seems to want more Spider-Man.

The Dark Knight made similar last year.

Star Trek was somewhat popular.

Avatar's made $1billion+.



Can science fiction and fantasy really still be considered a niche, geek-only genre anymore?


Honestly, at this point a blockbuster is a blockbuster. Genre is irrelevant.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby so sorry on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:32 pm

Fried Gold wrote:Perhaps that's what Avatar's stamp will be.


I want Avatar's stamp to be a tramp stamp.

Not that tramp-stamps are original tattoos anymore...
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Spandau Belly on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:37 pm

minstrel wrote:I wish people would stop defending Star Wars based on its characters. They're no better than Avatar's. Since when is Darth Vader a compelling villain? He dresses in black and wears a mask, so he's scary? Jeez. There's a whole thread here on the Zone somewhere about how he's not really very impressive.


Darth Vader is a great pilot who is physically large, has a deep sexy voice and can snap you neck with his mind. He started out good but was trained by an inexperienced mentor who couldn't control him and now he's risen to assistant dictator in a fascist regime that spans multiple galaxies. He builds weapons that can destroy entire planets, he maims his own son, and even fucks with the mining industry. If that leaves you unimpressed then I think you should also skip Inglourious Basterds because that Hitler guy in that movie was barely a threat.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Seppuku on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:01 pm

S'far as the characters are concerned, I'd agree with Dale and Spandau that there is that slightly flat, smaller-than-life thing about the folks who people Avatar. While I reckon that might be what the filmmakers were going for, this movie might have been improved by the presence of an old British ham or two, or a character as interesting as, say, Lance Henrikson/Bishop in Aliens (Avatar parallels Aliens far more than it does any of the Star Wars movies). Just one engaging character, on either side of the war, would have been enough to anchor all that visual storytelling. The two closest things to that were Neytiri, who was ultimately little more than a male [blue] girl next door fantasy, and Stephen Lang's Sgt Rock, who barely stands out from any number of other knuckleheaded, singleminded military types who appear in movies like this, from Day of the Dead's Captain Rhodes to that crazy, scarred up general in Paths of Glory. Considering that the two most memorable characters are total archetypes, there's a big space at this movie's core where its heart's supposed to be. I guess you could say that Pandora itself is Avatar's main character, and you'd probably be right, but there's something a little off about the fact that the people habituating Avatar's world are less alive and real than the CG.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:02 pm

Avatar is original in that it is the first film I can think of to take the Invaders From Another Planet twist and make US the evil aliens invading a planet and what we would percieve to be aliens, the ones that are being invaded. I love that turning the tables of the War of the Worlds theme around and giving a big Fuck You to people who say "Oooh Aliens evil, want to invade innocent Earth" and show them just how WE are really the ones capable of this destruction.

For me that makes Avatar SO much in it's own class and unique in this twist. Everyone misses this point it seems.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby minstrel on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:14 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:Darth Vader is a great pilot who is physically large, has a deep sexy voice and can snap you neck with his mind. He started out good but was trained by an inexperienced mentor who couldn't control him and now he's risen to assistant dictator in a fascist regime that spans multiple galaxies. He builds weapons that can destroy entire planets, he maims his own son, and even fucks with the mining industry. If that leaves you unimpressed then I think you should also skip Inglourious Basterds because that Hitler guy in that movie was barely a threat.


Physically large? Assistant dictator? Maims his own son? Fucks with the mining industry? FUCKS WITH THE MINING INDUSTRY?????

That's not a scary villain. That's an inglorious bastard. Sure, he's bad, but he's not, you know, freaky. Hannibal Lecter is freaky. He'd eat Darth Vader for breakfast. Heath Ledger's Joker is one of the great villains in movie history - Batman beats the crap out of him in prison and the Joker doesn't give a shit! He's beyond crazy. Those guys are scary. Those guys are unhinged. Those guys are the guys you don't want to meet. Vader's just a jerk, not really a VILLAIN.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:19 pm

Darth Vader killed kids. His wife, tried to kill his best friend, plus his other brothers. Then his master. I can't think of anyone he WOULDN'T kill. There's no compromise in him. That's about as fresh faced evil as one can get. I think that says a helluva lot for a villain. Where others would stop, he don't.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:23 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:
minstrel wrote:I wish people would stop defending Star Wars based on its characters. They're no better than Avatar's. Since when is Darth Vader a compelling villain? He dresses in black and wears a mask, so he's scary? Jeez. There's a whole thread here on the Zone somewhere about how he's not really very impressive.


Darth Vader is a great pilot who is physically large, has a deep sexy voice and can snap you neck with his mind. He started out good but was trained by an inexperienced mentor who couldn't control him and now he's risen to assistant dictator in a fascist regime that spans multiple galaxies. He builds weapons that can destroy entire planets, he maims his own son, and even fucks with the mining industry. If that leaves you unimpressed then I think you should also skip Inglourious Basterds because that Hitler guy in that movie was barely a threat.


Greatest post in the history of posts.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Bloo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:25 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Avatar is original in that it is the first film I can think of to take the Invaders From Another Planet twist and make US the evil aliens invading a planet and what we would percieve to be aliens, the ones that are being invaded. I love that turning the tables of the War of the Worlds theme around and giving a big Fuck You to people who say "Oooh Aliens evil, want to invade innocent Earth" and show them just how WE are really the ones capable of this destruction.

For me that makes Avatar SO much in it's own class and unique in this twist. Everyone misses this point it seems.


Kirks I thought we had this conversation several pages back

off the top of my head I can tell you Starship Troopers and Ender's Game both did the "humans invading the alien" worlds
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:28 pm

Bloo wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Avatar is original in that it is the first film I can think of to take the Invaders From Another Planet twist and make US the evil aliens invading a planet and what we would percieve to be aliens, the ones that are being invaded. I love that turning the tables of the War of the Worlds theme around and giving a big Fuck You to people who say "Oooh Aliens evil, want to invade innocent Earth" and show them just how WE are really the ones capable of this destruction.

For me that makes Avatar SO much in it's own class and unique in this twist. Everyone misses this point it seems.


Kirks I thought we had this conversation several pages back

off the top of my head I can tell you Starship Troopers and Ender's Game both did the "humans invading the alien" worlds


Yeah but Troops didn't really do it for me that much in regards to that theme and Ender's Game I didn't see, so I still stand by my own point, personally speaking.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Seppuku on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:31 pm

Bloo wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Avatar is original in that it is the first film I can think of to take the Invaders From Another Planet twist and make US the evil aliens invading a planet and what we would percieve to be aliens, the ones that are being invaded. I love that turning the tables of the War of the Worlds theme around and giving a big Fuck You to people who say "Oooh Aliens evil, want to invade innocent Earth" and show them just how WE are really the ones capable of this destruction.

For me that makes Avatar SO much in it's own class and unique in this twist. Everyone misses this point it seems.


Kirks I thought we had this conversation several pages back

off the top of my head I can tell you Starship Troopers and Ender's Game both did the "humans invading the alien" worlds


District 9 also had that humans as bad guys thing nailed down last year, too. Sigh, now I really wish Robert Rodriguez's new Predators movie starred a cast of predators as the good guys, fighting off an infestation of unstoppable human invaders. It could be called: "Predators: Defenders."
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Re: AVATAR based on a comic book?

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:31 pm

markdraws wrote:Was this movie based on or from some old comic book?


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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:31 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:I find the emphasis being put on story not being "original" quite amusing. It's just comes across like you're clutching at straws.

Look back at the highest-grossers from the past 25 years and see if you can spot one which had a truly original story.


I am right there with you, FG. In fact, some would argue it was the "unoriginal story" that allowed the film to be so successful.

If you want the maximum amount of people to enjoy it...they need something familiar...broad strokes, you know?


so financially successful = creatively successful now?

I could swear that there are a few threads in here lamenting the fact that films have been dumbed down to capture broad audiences...

And the story itself, the broad-based themes, do not necessarily need to be original. A fresh take of those themes can be just as refreshing as an abstract art-house film. I'm thinking primarily here of The Matrix which Avatar borrows a lot from (more, I think, than from Star Wars, though of course The Matrix borrows a lot from SW too). The themes driving the Matrix weren't original either...but the way in which those themes were presented (not just visually, but conceptually) felt far more "original" to me than Avatar ever does. That's an incredibly subjective statement, I realize, but that was just my feeling after watching the movie.
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Re: AVATAR (Now w/ Worldwide Eyeball Rape)

Postby Bloo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:33 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Bloo wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Avatar is original in that it is the first film I can think of to take the Invaders From Another Planet twist and make US the evil aliens invading a planet and what we would percieve to be aliens, the ones that are being invaded. I love that turning the tables of the War of the Worlds theme around and giving a big Fuck You to people who say "Oooh Aliens evil, want to invade innocent Earth" and show them just how WE are really the ones capable of this destruction.

For me that makes Avatar SO much in it's own class and unique in this twist. Everyone misses this point it seems.


Kirks I thought we had this conversation several pages back

off the top of my head I can tell you Starship Troopers and Ender's Game both did the "humans invading the alien" worlds


Yeah but Troops didn't really do it for me that much in regards to that theme and Ender's Game I didn't see, so I still stand by my own point, personally speaking.


Ender's Game hasn't been made yet, it's still a book

and it doesn't matter if it did much for you or not, but the point still stands, it's not original in that regard
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