No Country For Old Men (BEWARE SPOILERS!)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate No Country for Old Men?

10
23
29%
9
25
32%
8
16
21%
7
7
9%
6
3
4%
5
1
1%
4
0
No votes
3
1
1%
2
0
No votes
1
0
No votes
I'm waiting for DVD / TV
2
3%
No No Country for Me
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 78

Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:50 am

CHIGURH GOT THE MONEY!!!! CHIGURH GOT THE MONEY!!!
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:55 am

Indeed he did - and wasn't that just the bleakest possible ending? I have to agree with the crits who said that No Country was like Fargo without the laughs.....not that this is a bad thing, mind you!
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Postby Seppuku on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:08 am

I'll admit, I have a habit of sitting in the disabled seats at the back of the cinema because I like the leg room, so I often have trouble hearing dialogue. But was I the only one who had a bitch of a time trying to understand what Tommy Lee Jones and his deputy were saying? It can't just be because I was at the back of the cinema either, as I had the same trouble with Garret Dillahunt (Deputy Wendell) when he was in Deadwood playing Francis Walcott.

Though I loved the film, I just kind of blanked out during Tommy Lee Jones' final speech as his accent was so thick.

I'm going to see it again so I can concentrate more on the dialogue, and less on being wowed by the cinematography and plot beats.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:17 am

I did kinda phase in and out of his final comments, not expecting the film to suddenly end right there. I didn't have time to fully consider what he'd said, as I was jerked out of it thinking "hang on, what just happened..".


...it's going to need another watch.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:22 am

That happened to me too Sepp - I found myself on several occasions wishing there were subtitles. Looks like mumblecore is taking over Hollywood!
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Postby Maui on Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:00 pm

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Hmmmmmmmm...but the Mexicans did kill Moss.

I will watch this again - TONIGHT!!! Very carefully and thoughtfully.

Was Sugar hobbling with the briefcase at the very end when he was hit by the car?
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Postby Maui on Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:47 pm

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:crits who said that No Country was like Fargo without the laughs.....


There were lots of laughs though - not as many as Fargo. I watched this again last night and I found myself chuckling more.

Yes, it is rather obvious that Sugar gets the money. :roll:

I love that one scene where Moss is crossing back into the US - the scene with the US border guard. So typical.

The final scene with Bell's thoughts - fantastic. For all of you that were left miffed or puzzled by this - a 2nd viewing really puts it all to rest.
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:29 pm

Still not sure I understood it fully.

Need help.

The Mis en Scene was fine but the rest of it was a bit fucked up.

Was Mr Canister honourable or what?

I enjoyed the film and, as typical of the Coen bros, I enjoyed the ride and the cinematogrphay.

I felt the entire enviornment.

But, I know there's something I missed. I don't think i'd class it as Oscar winner but that's probably because I haven't spent enough time with the film.

Maybe, an oscar is presumptious then?
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:17 pm

papalazeru wrote:Was Mr Canister honourable or what?


much like being a character doesn't necessarily mean you have character, Chigurh having a code doesn't make him, or the code, honorable.

and one can argue Carla Jean's argument, that it's not fate or the flip or the coin, that it's Chigurh, and only Chigurh, who decides certain fates - CJ's argument takes some of the shine off Chigurh's honorability.
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:19 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Was Mr Canister honourable or what?


much like being a character doesn't necessarily mean you have character, Chigurh having a code doesn't make him, or the code, honorable.

and one can argue Carla Jean's argument, that it's not fate or the flip or the coin, that it's Chigurh, and only Chigurh, who decides certain fates - CJ's argument takes some of the shine off Chigurh's honorability.


But then why does he kill the wife then?

He doesn't have to do after her but he makes it clear out of principle, no?

He justifies it though the toss of a coin no which confound him? One person lives, one dies. It makes sense in the eyes of a killer but he make a promise.

For me, I love him for it because it's his one redeeming feature...the honour; inspite of what's been said.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:37 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Was Mr Canister honourable or what?


much like being a character doesn't necessarily mean you have character, Chigurh having a code doesn't make him, or the code, honorable.

and one can argue Carla Jean's argument, that it's not fate or the flip or the coin, that it's Chigurh, and only Chigurh, who decides certain fates - CJ's argument takes some of the shine off Chigurh's honorability.


I think the best argument against CJ's theory comes in the form of the gas station coin flip scene. Chigurh is really annoyed and angry with the guy but the coin flip comes out in the attendants favour and he's saved.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:37 pm

but one can, as Carla Jean rather tearfully, eloquently does, that he's passing the buck...well, coin rather.

he leaves fate and the determination of fate up to an unknown variable.

is that honorable?
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:41 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:but one can, as Carla Jean rather tearfully, eloquently does, that he's passing the buck...well, coin rather.

he leaves fate and the determination of fate up to an unknown variable.

is that honorable?


Agreed but that still doesn't determine why the wife is left to fate.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:52 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:but one can, as Carla Jean rather tearfully, eloquently does, that he's passing the buck...well, coin rather.

he leaves fate and the determination of fate up to an unknown variable.

is that honorable?



No, it's not. Chigurh is a bagman for mexican mob, there's no honour to be had doing that job.
Although his loyalty to whatever fate demands can be seen as an honourable, I think.
There's a twisted logic to him coming after Carla Jean but it is something that Moss brought up on his family - old testament justice is what Chigurh seems to deal in. Cruel and unuaual punishment of the wicked and wicked is very broadly but definitively defined. When Chigurh flips the coin he doesn't believe it's just a random probability on which side it will land he believes there a moral force at work.
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:56 pm

TonyWilson wrote:
Keepcoolbutcare wrote:b ut one can, as Carla Jean rather tearfully, eloquently does, that he's passing the buck...well, coin rather.

he leaves fate and the determination of fate up to an unknown variable.

is that honorable?



No, it's not. Chigurh is a bagman for mexican mob, there's no honour to be had doing that job.
Although his loyalty to whatever fate demands can be seen as an honourable, I think.
There's a twisted logic to him coming after Carla Jean but it is something that Moss brought up on his family - old testament justice is what Chigurh seems to deal in. Cruel and unuaual punishment of the wicked and wicked is very broadly but definitively defined. When Chigurh flips the coin he doesn't believe it's just a random probability on which side it will land he believes there a moral force at work.


That still doesn't explain, first of all, why he goes for the wife, then offers the choice.

And if it's old testament then why does he flip for coin for the man in gas station?

The guy just follows his life the best he can.

If anything, he gives the option the guy in the gas station because he has no life and should appreciate what he has, thus giving him a choice...to a certain extent. That's not old bible methodology.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:00 pm

well, he goes after Carla 'cuz he said he would - to him, it's keeping his word.

there is some honor in that, I reckon - twisted, debased, and certainly lacking in what one could term conventional morality, but still, he's a man of his word.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:04 pm

See I think he starts on the Gas Station attendant notbecause the guy doesn't appreciate what he has but because he's never looked outside of his small life. The OT is full of people being tested and punished and killed for random reasons.

He goes for Carla because he's keeping his promise to Moss, he flips the coin because she's not guilty in the same way Moss was, so Chigurh needs to "ask" fate, god whoever if she has to die.
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:05 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:well, he goes after Carla 'cuz he said he would - to him, it's keeping his word.

there is some honor in that, I reckon - twisted, debased, and certainly lacking in what one could term conventional morality, but still, he's a man of his word.


Throughout the film we brought to believe he's just a sick twisted killer but then all the other people who died have never been given definition so we are drawn to the conclusion that he has no heart, yet for some reason he kills the guys wife on the promise of a whim.

I can understand the fate explanation but to consider the wife's death a killing for the sake of it, ia beyone me. I didn't find him that cold.

There was definately a reson for each death. The wife was done, I think, out of honour. Before the duel could begin, it was finished by circumstance, and, for me, hence, no country for old men.

His killing was logical and methodical. We even see that at the end of the film but his escape, which could have been his undoing. T.L.J could have given her protection but that didn't happen.

I think the killer (Chigurh), he had principles. I assume, we saw that in giving the gas attendant a choice.
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Postby so sorry on Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:16 am

DVD comes out tomorrow (tuesday the 11th) here in the states...

Didn't catch it in the theater, but judging from all the love here, I'm going to take the plunge and buy it.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:44 am

Can't wait to hear your thoughts, hope you like it!!
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:26 am

Got the Blu-Ray yesterday. I'm convinced that Ed Tom wasn't imagining Chigurh in the hotel room. Chigurh was in there. Ed Tom enters the room and pushes the door all the way against the wall, where it stays. He goes into the bathroom and comes back out again and sits on the bed. The door isn't against the wall anymore, and it's so well done by the Coens that it's shown almost as an afterthought. But Chigurh was there.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:22 am

Nordling wrote:Got the Blu-Ray yesterday. I'm convinced that Ed Tom wasn't imagining Chigurh in the hotel room. Chigurh was in there. Ed Tom enters the room and pushes the door all the way against the wall, where it stays. He goes into the bathroom and comes back out again and sits on the bed. The door isn't against the wall anymore, and it's so well done by the Coens that it's shown almost as an afterthought. But Chigurh was there.


My Blu-Ray copy should come today or tommorow. Can't wait to see this HD style as I hear the picture is incredible.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:34 pm

Nordling wrote:I'm convinced that Ed Tom wasn't imagining Chigurh in the hotel room. Chigurh was in there. Ed Tom enters the room and pushes the door all the way against the wall, where it stays. He goes into the bathroom and comes back out again and sits on the bed. The door isn't against the wall anymore, and it's so well done by the Coens that it's shown almost as an afterthought. But Chigurh was there.


Chigurh left from the window in the bathroom... Ed Tom notices that the window is unlatched, suggesting that Chigurh escaped and shut the window behind him, without locking it of course. Only then does he sigh a breath of relief and has a seat on the bed.
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:46 pm

Nope, that window's latched.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:00 pm

Well where could Chigurh have gone? He wasn't behind the door when it swung open 'cause the door hits the wall as Ed Tom enters... I'm not saying you're wrong about the latch bit, just wondering about the logistics now.
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:01 pm

I've always thought he was behind the door
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:02 pm

I thought Chigurgh was in the room next door after he looked in the air vent and saw what Brolin had done with the case the first time. Thus he wasn't even in the same room when Tommy Lee Jones barges in.
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:04 pm

I just checked my copy, there is definitely enough room for him to be behind the door, the window in the bathroom is locked and when he returns the door is no longer opened all the way against the wall.
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:06 pm

There's still space behind the door for Chigurh to hide. The door slams against the wall but Chigurh's in the far corner and the door doesn't hit him. When Ed Tom enters the room, the door doesn't swing back out, it stays put. The only way the door could have moved is for someone to have moved it. It's to accentuate that Chigurh is something of a ghost, and just shows how much of a badass he is. He doesn't leave much of a trace of his passing.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:07 pm

Can you look at the moment when Ed Tom swings the door open? I remember that the door hits the wall, which would mean that Chigurh couldn't have been standing there if that's the case...
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:08 pm

Then the question becomes....Why didn't Chigurh just waste TLJ?
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:10 pm

The door definitely hits the wall, but there's still space between the wall and the door for someone to hide without the door touching them. And I think Chigurh let TLJ live because if he killed a cop, he'd be a hunted man. This way, he's just a ghost, with no one to prove he even existed.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:15 pm

Nordling wrote: I think Chigurh let TLJ live because if he killed a cop, he'd be a hunted man. This way, he's just a ghost, with no one to prove he even existed.

That makes no sense since he killed a cop first thing.
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:17 pm

He didn't kill him because TLJ didn't see him
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:18 pm

John-Locke wrote:He didn't kill him because TLJ didn't see him


Yup!

"That depends, do you see me?"
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:20 pm

That's true, but in the book (it's not stated in the movie so much) Chigurh killed the cop and escaped as something of a personal test with himself to see if he could do it. Ed Tom had no direct contact with Chigurh. Never saw him, never spoke to him, and the only proof of his existence Ed Tom had was all ancillary and didn't directly involve him.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:20 pm

That atleast make sense.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:38 pm

from the online hangout of Premiere film critic Glenn Kenny - More 'No Country' Matters: Motel Shots, or, Gimme Some Chigurh.

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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:42 pm

I'm not sure what I'm seeing there. And sadly I can't read that blog at work.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:47 pm

Nordling wrote:I'm not sure what I'm seeing there.


that's the last shot of the sequence that comes before Ed Tom enters the hotel room where Moss was found.

that's pic #12, the previous 11 all detail how we're set up to believe that Chigurh is indeed in the room - but from that pic, there's nobody behind the door.

which doesn't exactly settle the debate, but still - 'taint no one there in that pic...
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:50 pm

Yeah, it still doesn't settle it. Can't get past the fact that when the door hits the wall, it stays there. It didn't have a natural tendency to swing back, even a little. So when he comes back, it's loose. Also, if Ed Tom is imagining Chigurh, how can he know what Chigurh looks like?
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:01 pm

I just checked my copy again and Chigurh ain't in the room next door as the door/handle/wall are on the opposite side of the room.

I think it's either Ed Tom's imagination or they just deliberately didn't put Bardem behind the door for that brief shot knowing that it would cause controversy.
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:01 pm

Nordling wrote:Also, if Ed Tom is imagining Chigurh, how can he know what Chigurh looks like?


Good point
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:12 pm

I'm loving all of the theorizing, except for the "Chigurh has supernatural powers" theory mentioned in that blog and in the comments.

Chigurh certainly comes across as a force of nature in the film, as fate, whatever you want to call him, but I greatly prefer him to be the personification of those things in his own mind and action, as opposed to some sort of ghost/demon/whatever.
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:13 pm

Bell isn't imagining Chigurh specifically, he's just imagining coming face to face with that hopeless, unfeeling violence which Chigurh represents.
Having said that from the pic KCBC posted I'm sure I can see a piar of legs in the far corner behind the door.
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Postby Nordling on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:Chigurh certainly comes across as a force of nature in the film, as fate, whatever you want to call him, but I greatly prefer him to be the personification of those things in his own mind and action, as opposed to some sort of ghost/demon/whatever.


That's what I think too. It's funny how oddly embarrassed Chigurh seems after the car accident, like how stuff like that wasn't supposed to happen to someone like him.
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:19 pm

Yeh, I think anyone who thinks Chigurh is supernatural is being really really dumb. But his actions are certainly meant to be preternatural.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:31 pm

I thought he was in an adjacent room when I saw it, and I'm sticking to that.
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Postby The Vicar on Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:42 pm

TonyWilson wrote:Yeh, I think anyone who thinks Chigurh is supernatural is being really really dumb. But his actions are certainly meant to be preternatural.


I go with that.

Supernatural?
Not in this film.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:52 pm

Then how do you explain the part where he made a car explode by staring at it for twelve seconds?
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