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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:20 pm
by stereosforgeeks
The first book is slow. I only continued reading it because I heard it got better and that it did. The second and third books are much better.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:22 pm
by minstrel
I haven't read these books either. Weird, though - a guy in a Yahoo group I'm in sent the group a message with the heading "Very Important!" containing this link.

Apparently it pissed him off and he thinks everybody should boycott the film and the books.

Is it really indicative of the attitudes of Christians generally that they do NOT want children to be exposed to ideas that challenge their beliefs? Are they afraid that their numbers will dwindle unless they basically brainwash their kids?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:22 pm
by Bob Samonkey
so sorry wrote:From the article Fawst posted (no spoliers)

Pullman has not been shy in the past about verbalizing his beliefs -- or, some might say, nonbeliefs -- and his intentions in writing the "Dark Materials" novels.

The novelist has said they are in response to C.S. Lewis' "The Chronicles of Narnia," the popular children's fantasy series of which "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" is the first book, written by Lewis to teach Christian ideals to kids.

"I loathe the 'Narnia' books," Pullman has said in previous press interviews. "I hate them with a deep and bitter passion, with their view of childhood as a golden age from which sexuality and adulthood are a falling away." He has called the series "one of the most ugly and poisonous things" he's ever read.


So he thinks that Narnia is poison, so he writes the opposite and that's supposed to be better?

Interesting logic.


So it is wrong that I enjoyed my childhood??!?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:27 pm
by stereosforgeeks
minstrel wrote:I haven't read these books either. Weird, though - a guy in a Yahoo group I'm in sent the group a message with the heading "Very Important!" containing this link.

Apparently it pissed him off and he thinks everybody should boycott the film and the books.

Is it really indicative of the attitudes of Christians generally that they do NOT want children to be exposed to ideas that challenge their beliefs? Are they afraid that their numbers will dwindle unless they basically brainwash their kids?


The first book isn't that up front with the war on Christianity or the theme isnt made clear untill the end of the book anyway.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:19 pm
by Al Shut
Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:So it is wrong that I enjoyed my childhood??!?


Yes nobody should enjoy your childhood.

Mainsite points to new trailer


edit looking good in my opinion

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:30 pm
by stereosforgeeks
well that shows a lot.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:07 pm
by LaDracul
After seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:09 pm
by stereosforgeeks
LaDracul wrote:After seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


I thought I remember hearing that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that it is about atheism?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:13 pm
by LaDracul
stereosforgeeks wrote:
LaDracul wrote:Aft er seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


Wasn't it already stated that that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that this is about atheism?


"Destroy the Magisterium" - Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

And I'm not sure if they're being truthful about everything being cut...

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:17 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Thats not technically what the Magisterium is in the film. Also, because one character states something during a film does not mean it is the the actual treatise of the film itself.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:24 pm
by junesquad
stereosforgeeks wrote:
LaDracul wrote:Aft er seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


I thought I remember hearing that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that it is about atheism?


Well, I don't know about the trailer, but the trilogy of books ends with children killing God so that everyone can do as they please. I read this article on the topic. After reading this article, I decided to read more about the author, so I went to the author's website to read more about him and the books. After reading these sections, I decided to read another part of his page where he answers a variety of questions... after reading about him and his books, I decided I wouldn't be spending the money or taking my little loved ones.

**FYI: Each of the links are to a different website.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:29 pm
by stereosforgeeks
junesquad wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
LaDracul wrote:After seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


I thought I remember hearing that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that it is about atheism?


Well, I don't know about the trailer, but the trilogy of books ends with children killing God so that everyone can do as they please. I read this article on the topic. After reading this article, I decided to read more about the author, so I went to the author's website to read more about him and the books. After reading these sections, I decided to read another part of his page where he answers a variety of questions... after reading about him and his books, I decided I wouldn't be spending the money or taking my little loved ones.

**FYI: Each of the links are to a different website.


I mean the trailer specifically.

The books themselves dont really end like that. It ends with the killing of something that thinks itself as God but that is not the actual creator.

For the record, I was born and raised Roman Catholic. 8 years of Catholic school under my belt and I even taught catholic school to first graders.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:30 pm
by Leckomaniac
LaDracul wrote:After seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


I just don't see the logic in this. I don't know, maybe I am crazy, but i sort of enjoyed Narnia as a fantasy film. As someone who abhors organized religion...I just kind of ignored the Christian elements to it. It IS possible to do that you know.

But what you are saying, is you'll wait to see if this film is "Christian approved" before giving it a shot? You can't just enjoy the film for what it is and respect that people have different views than you. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing Jewish folks protesting Chronicles of Narnia.

This all just seems a little crazy to me. I don't mean to drag this thread into EFBR territory...I am just kind of surprised to read this is all.

And for the record, I think this film looks quite awful. I won't be seeing it because it just doesn't look very good, IMO. And that is usually the only barometer I use when deciding whether or not to see a film.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:33 pm
by stereosforgeeks
Lecko the books are quite good, actually. The first one is on the slow side though. I have no idea if the movies will be or not of course.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:35 pm
by Leckomaniac
stereosforgeeks wrote:Lecko the books are quite good, actually. The first one is on the slow side though. I have no idea if the movies will be or not of course.


To be honest, I bet I would like the books. I am just saying that the trailers have looked painfully mediocre to me. But it has Deadwood in it and Dr. Who so it caught my interest for a few seconds.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:38 pm
by junesquad
I wasn't meaning to offend, I just saw the question and was trying to give information that might be useful to interested parties.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:40 pm
by stereosforgeeks
junesquad wrote:I wasn't meaning to offend, I just saw the question and was trying to give information that might be useful to interested parties.


That's what the thread is for ;).

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:40 pm
by junesquad
Sweet and you're welcome.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:34 am
by tapehead
double

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:35 am
by tapehead
junesquad wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
LaDracul wrote:Aft er seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


I thought I remember hearing that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that it is about atheism?


Well, I don't know about the trailer, but the trilogy of books ends with children killing God so that everyone can do as they please. I read this article on the topic. After reading this article, I decided to read more about the author, so I went to the author's website to read more about him and the books. After reading these sections, I decided to read another part of his page where he answers a variety of questions... after reading about him and his books, I decided I wouldn't be spending the money or taking my little loved ones.

**FYI: Each of the links are to a different website.


That's a lot of reading there, none of which seems to relate to the metaphysics or the theology of the 'His Dark materials' trilogy. Have you actually read the books? just curious.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:37 am
by Leckomaniac

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am
by tapehead
No I might never get an answer from junesquad.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am
by tapehead
and that

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am
by stereosforgeeks
I think junesquad said he hadn't read the books.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am
by tapehead
was the point

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:42 am
by tapehead
of my coming here to post...

stereosforgeeks wrote:I think junesquad said he hadn't read the books.


At most, his post only indirectly imply that he has read the books - there's no direct statement either way. Although it is true, it's easy to let your pre-suppositions affect your comprehension and come to the wrong conclusion... when reading.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:43 am
by Leckomaniac
tapehead wrote:was the point


Son of a bitch. And I LIKED you Tapehead. Now you're just being cruel.

Time to turn my fluff up to 11!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:44 am
by junesquad
Sorry, I was away from the board... I was shaving. I have not read the books.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:47 am
by stereosforgeeks
I would seriously check them out. They are are good fantasy stories and not just a parable for atheism as most people think.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:51 am
by junesquad
I definitely read things that go against my religion. I'm reading Wicked: The Life and Times of The Wicked Witch of the West and it's not a Christian book by any stretch of the imagination. I simply was giving some information to a post.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:52 am
by tapehead
Unfortunately in this case your info is a little off-base, and would seem to me to be a seious distortion of events occuring towards the end of the third book.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:53 am
by stereosforgeeks
junesquad wrote:I definitely read things that go against my religion. I'm reading Wicked: The Life and Times of The Wicked Witch of the West and it's not a Christian book by any stretch of the imagination. I simply was giving some information to a post.


My comment was a general statement about the the actual novels themselves ;)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:00 am
by junesquad
tapehead wrote:Unfortunately in this case your info is a little off-base, and would seem to me to be a seious distortion of events occuring towards the end of the third book.


It may be that the information distorted the events of the books (particularly the ending), however, it would not the be the first time this has happened, such as The Harry Potter series, which I enjoy, or even some Disney movies. That is why I went to the author's site. His general stance is overt that he does not believe there is a God. So, I made the decision not to read the books. I can chose to respect the guy's beliefs without reading the books and that's okay; especially if I feel the undertone of the author's books speak against my personal beliefs.* However, due to the misunderstanding of my motivation in posting the information that I did, I will make all such future posts such as these (should there be any) private messages to the individual I am responding to.

I hope this clarifies my motivations in posting what I did.

*Added later for clarity.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:05 am
by tapehead
junesquad wrote:
tapehead wrote:Unfortunately in this case your info is a little off-base, and would seem to me to be a seious distortion of events occuring towards the end of the third book.


It may be that the information distorted the events of the books (particularly the ending), however, it would not the be the first time this has happened, such as The Grande Rojo Potter series, which I enjoy, or even some Disney movies. That is why I went to the author's site. His general stance is overt that he does not believe there is a God. So, I made the decision not to read the books. I can chose to respect the guy's beliefs without reading the books and that's okay. However, due to the misunderstanding of my motivation in posting the information that I did, I will make all such future posts such as these (should there be any) private messages to the individual I am responding to.

I hope this clarifies my motivations in posting what I did.


And I'll save my list of favourite children's authors who are also atheists for another time...

I would however join Stereosforgeeks in encouraging you to read the books for yourself, as they are very good.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:08 am
by stereosforgeeks
please enlighten tape!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:15 am
by tapehead
I don't think that would be fair. There are a lot of them, though.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:15 am
by stereosforgeeks
tapehead wrote:I don't think that would be fair. There are a lot of them, though.


I was just curious.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:16 pm
by Lady Sheridan
To return to discussion of the film...

I'm not sure how I feel about this movie now. The second trailer hooked me, but this final one...hmmm. CGI still looks a bit off and Daniel Craig might as well not be in it. And the daemon's seem a bit too cuddly.

But what really worries me is Lyra. I hope the actress shows a bit more spark as she's coming off very dull and untalented. "Wot's it for?" Where's the girl who climbs the roofs of Oxford? Given that a trailer usually has the most exciting bits of any actor's performance...oh dear.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:53 pm
by DaleTremont
Lady Sheridan wrote:To return to discussion of the film...

I'm not sure how I feel about this movie now. The second trailer hooked me, but this final one...hmmm. CGI still looks a bit off and Daniel Craig might as well not be in it. And the daemon's seem a bit too cuddly.

But what really worries me is Lyra. I hope the actress shows a bit more spark as she's coming off very dull and untalented. "Wot's it for?" Where's the girl who climbs the roofs of Oxford? Given that a trailer usually has the most exciting bits of any actor's performance...oh dear.


The effects are looking miles better, but I agree with you on the animals in general. The armored bears are showing their CGI colors like rainbow flags at a ghey pride parade. I'm no techie, but couldn't they have combined CGI and animatronics to create something that looks more realistic? Seems like that's the best way to go about it. Otherwise you end up with a very expensive video game.
Part of me wishes someone could travel back to the 80s and make this movie with Jim Henson creations and the general tone of Amblin back in the day. That would get it right.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:45 pm
by Dee E. Goppstober
I agree with most of the above- especially about the bears coming across as phony animations with absolutely no character whatsoever.

DaleTremont wrote:Part of me wishes someone could travel back to the 80s and make this movie with Jim Henson creations and the general tone of Amblin back in the day. That would get it right.


:D that idea just warmed my heart a little...

And I'm sorry to return to the "beliefs"-thang, but - as they are an integral part of the story:


LaDracul wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
LaDracul wrote:Aft er seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.

Or else we'll get a "Father Ted" type protest with some priests who've lost their handcuff keys in plenty of theaters...


Wasn't it already stated that that stuff was pulled out.

Also what in that trailer makes you think that this is about atheism?


"Destroy the Magisterium" - Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

And I'm not sure if they're being truthful about everything being cut...


maybe partly repeating what Lecko said above -but: are you really saying that the beliefs of the author/director should be cut from the film? Or that it's a good thing that they have been cut?

Because that, to me, is a pretty crass statement- isn't our so highly applauded free speech supposed to be all about being able to do just that - voicing your beliefs - as long as you do it with respect to those of others? Don't all directors/authors "push" (I definetely think that's the wrong word, btw) their beliefs on us in a way?

I think it's fair enough- like junesquad says- if you decide not to see the film for yourself- but to say that parts should be censored?

Or is that just me misinterpreting the statement?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:55 pm
by DaleTremont
LaDracul wrote:After seeing the new trailer, I just think it's not very subtle that Pullman is pushing his beliefs on people. And I don't think he realizes that it's an uphill battle. So, as of now, I'm still going to see what that Catholic Explorer paper says before I even consider it.


Yikes. You need the stamp of approval from one certain publication before you'll even see the movie? For the sake of free thinking, I beg you to reconsider. See the movie. Hate it. Write an opinion piece in the Catholic Explorer about why no other Catholics should see it because x, y, and z, but at least decide for yourself.

Honestly, it rankles me a little when people only talk about other people "pushing their beliefs" on them when it contradicts your own chosen religion, philosophy, principles, etc... A story with a point of view does not propaganda make.

Or...don't see it because you think it looks like shit and your 2 hours would be better spent catching a re-run of Fresh Prince. Then that's cool.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:21 am
by Cpt Kirks 2pay
I heard that the special FX company that are doing these polar bears are the same flipping one that did the polar bear coca cola adverts - and it freaking shows!!!!! CARTOOOON!!!!!!


Man what this film needs is more element of LENE!!! Or ELLEEEENN!!!!!!!!

Jheebuzh!!!!!!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:40 am
by Dr William Weir
I'm not a big reader in any sense of the word, but I have the books here nestled in my carcasses and have attempted to give them a go a couple of times. What struck me, thrillingly, was how dark they were... but maybe that's an individual interpretation. Does it strike anybody that they're obviously aiming for the Harry Potter crowd here rather than making a true interpretation?

As for not watching something because of your beliefs, I find it difficult myself, but only because there's so much that conflicts with my own tenth-level of hell ghoulishness. Narnia, for example, is a blatant Christian parable (being a demon of sorts, I naturally have to accept there is a God) - if you weren't to watch The Golden Compass because of a minor conflict with your chosen religion, by proxy shouldn't you also be concerned that your own views are being pushed at others under the banner of light entertainment so blatantly too?

Food for thought!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:51 am
by Lady Sheridan
It does look a bit too bright and shiny. I always imagined the book taking place in a grittier world. If anything, I wish they had borrowed the look of HP 4 and 5. It lacks the Victorian gloom of the book.

I doubt the scenes with the Northern experiments are going to be as chillingly gulag-ish as I pictured either.

I'm sure the bear fight will end with a simple bite to the jugular, they'll never have the guts to show how it REALLY happens.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:45 pm
by Maui
So far almost halfway through reading the Golden Compass - I am certainly not envisioning Nicole Kidman as Mrs. Coultier. At least put a black wig on her. Craig as Uncle Asriel - perhaps - I was picturing a more dark, mysterious, yet kind hearted individual. Not blonde blue eyed Craig.

The character of Lyra definitely needs to be portrayed as mischievous, daring, troublemaking, inquisitive child - I will be very disappointed if this doesn't come across on the big screen.

The trailer does appear light and glittery to me as well. We need a dark, gloomy Victorian setting with old college buildings, dark laneways, and murky waters.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:11 pm
by Lady Sheridan
I noticed they cut Lyra entirely from the tv ad campaign....

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:22 pm
by DaleTremont
Lady Sheridan wrote:I noticed they cut Lyra entirely from the tv ad campaign....


Weird. I remember when the first casting news was leaking out, the rumor was Philip Pullman himself was going ape shit over this kid. "The Lyra he'd always envisioned" and that sort of thing. But if homegirl can't act...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:25 pm
by stereosforgeeks
DaleTremont wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:I noticed they cut Lyra entirely from the tv ad campaign....


Weird. I remember when the first casting news was leaking out, the rumor was Philip Pullman himself was going ape shit over this kid. "The Lyra he'd always envisioned" and that sort of thing. But if homegirl can't act...


One can still hope.

*crossing fingers*

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:32 pm
by Maui
DaleTremont wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:I noticed they cut Lyra entirely from the tv ad campaign....


Weird. I remember when the first casting news was leaking out, the rumor was Philip Pullman himself was going ape shit over this kid. "The Lyra he'd always envisioned" and that sort of thing. But if homegirl can't act...


I saw the TV ad last night and also noticed the lack of Lyra.

I also read that Pullman specifically requested Kidman for the role of Mrs. Coultier.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:53 am
by tapehead
So this opens in the US today? Who has seen it? I'm really keen to get some feedback, both from readers of the books and those who just thought it might be worth a look.